Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    I guarantee, if Jermaine O'Neal continues to play at this level the Celtics will find themselves in the Finals.
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : Talent, athleticism, skills, etc. don't matter - Perk was perfect for this team......  at least that is what I have read here for the past 5 years. This same logic applies to Rondo - he is deferring most of his offensive game for the benefit of the team, he is perfect for this team.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    agreed. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    If we get to the finals we are going to win!  Don't forget that.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MinnesotaCelticsFan. Show MinnesotaCelticsFan's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    Having a true big man is key to the Celtics success. JO is such a player.

    ... and you are right it is a very small sample. Statistics only tell part of the story for the Celtics at the Center position. The Cs have the big four for scoring, however, it will be the defensive play of JO that will determine his worth this year. Even if Shaq returns, his play will be limited because of foul trouble and lack of playing. JO will be as important to the Celtics success as Shaq.

    JO's play may eclipse Perkin's defensive play and it may not. I do know that JO is a better offensive player.

     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]Yea, yea, yea Perk was a good fit for this team but in reality, he was the least important of the starting 5. I dont believe he will be more than an average center the rest of his career, if that.  Hes a role player, not a star and hes deficient offensively.  If Shaq was healthy, I dot think Perk would get much time other than to just keep the team chemistry together. Shaq is  much better even as a shell of his former self and JON is better as well.  Perk did his thing in the middle... pushing guys around, setting picks etc but he was never an intimidator... JON is.. He blocks and alters lots of shots and he uses his body pretty good in the paint.  He can also shoot from 10-12 feet, can finish bear the hoop and hit FTs.. Not a star down there but better than what we would be getting from Perk
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    Looked to me like Jo was just as much a bother/intimidator in the paint as Perk.

    Perk has played those 24 mins and been that SAME 5 point, 6 rebound 1 block guy for OKC.

    It is Green not bringing Posey performance and Shaq not being healthy we have to be scared about... not a lack of Perk
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    Green had a better PER as a Celtic than Pose in similar minutes... 12.8 to 12.

    But Pose upped his PLAYOFF PER TO 14 and thru the first 3 games Green was at 6.

    sooooo

    STEP IT UP JEFF!
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : read my whole post and comprehend. i do welcome intelligent analysis and I hate to get into arguments or slanging matches with people I don't even know. I love the Celtics as much as the next fan. So don't assume things about me that you obviously don't know.  tell me where I am wrong and also tell me are you basing your opinion on facts or on hope. the fact is Shaq is old and injured and he is 39.As much as I would like to be a homer I also want to be pragmatic. even if Shaq comes back how effective he is going to be, missing all that action for 2+ months. last time he came back he lasted what 5 minutes. were you watching that game. what happened there? did atmosphere create some mysterious nerve reaction while he was injured in a non physical play?  how do you think his leg is going to react when he really bangs into somebody or takes a charge?
    Posted by framdude[/QUOTE]

    OK...   in the early season with little or no practice time shaq made an immediate positive contribution as soon as he started to play...    his supposed defensive deficit - (pick and roll)  was never an unmanageable issue.   His 66% shooting was a boon...   his hard fouls in the lane a clear intimidation factor.   He was out for injuries a few times   and each time he came back, his contribution on the floor was immediate.   Even in the five minute game when he re-injured his leg he scored 6 points in the five minutes he played.       
    If his leg heals enough for him to have a little mobility he could certainly make those same contributions again... with little or no time needed to "get up to speed"   His play will be limited but he could easily make a substantial positive contribution at 10-15 min a game....   He is willing to take a shot of whatever in his leg to manage the pain...   It seems the Celts are holding him out as long as possible because they know he may not have more than a few games before he tears his leg muscle more...   and the longer they let it heal, the better chance it has of holding up longer against the strain of game action.   
    The Celts need 12 wins for another banner.   If I was calling the shots  even if Shaq was able to play today, I would hold him back from playing until the Celts lose 2 games - or until they are in the finals ... whichever comes first.       So that is what I think MIGHT be happening.         While its true that it also Might be that Shaq's leg just isn't healing enough to give him enough mobility to contribute,  there is NO evedence, that I have seen, that that is the case. And I think that given all of the above, and what Shaq has said about his willingness to take a shot ...   I think it is very likely that he will give it a try in a game, at some point before the playoffs are done.  To put a number on it ...  85% probability...    my number - you can argue it up or down,  but its based on the facts above, as we know them, not on hope.     I hope he does get to try it in a game... , and I hope his leg holds up for a few crucial games.   If his leg holds up I'm confident he will make a positive contribution to the Celtics efforts  maybe to their 18th championship.  
      

     SO... when you say " Hate to burst the bubble of some of the guys here. Shaq is not coming back....".     I say BS,   what do you know that no one else in the Celtics world knows.       

    Your opening phrase...."hate to burst the  bubble of some of the guys here..."  is obnoxious and condescending (not to mention a contradiction, a lie AND  a cliche)..    Your first assertion "Shaq is not coming back....". is at best unknowable and in my opinion unlikely...but asserting it as a fact is just dumb.    So if you want to avoid "slanging matches" with people you don't know then just learn to curb your condescending BS.  And then i'll curb mine. .


    We agree on at least one thing.... whather or not Shaq comes back,   the Celts have a legitimate shot at #18  


    Go Celts

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : OK...   in the early season with little or no practice time shaq made an immediate positive contribution as soon as he started to play...    his supposed defensive deficit - (pick and roll)  was never an unmanageable issue.   His 66% shooting was a boon...   his hard fouls in the lane a clear intimidation factor.   He was out for injuries a few times   and each time he came back, his contribution on the floor was immediate.   Even in the five minute game when he re-injured his leg he scored 6 points in the five minutes he played.        If his leg heals enough for him to have a little mobility he could certainly make those same contributions again... with little or no time needed to "get up to speed"   His play will be limited but he could easily make a substantial positive contribution at 10-15 min a game....   He is willing to take a shot of whatever in his leg to manage the pain...   It seems the Celts are holding him out as long as possible because they know he may not have more than a few games before he tears his leg muscle more...   and the longer they let it heal, the better chance it has of holding up longer against the strain of game action.    The Celts need 12 wins for another banner.   If I was calling the shots  even if Shaq was able to play today, I would hold him back from playing until the Celts lose 2 games - or until they are in the finals ... whichever comes first.       So that is what I think MIGHT be happening.         While its true that it also Might be that Shaq's leg just isn't healing enough to give him enough mobility to contribute,  there is NO evedence, that I have seen, that that is the case. And I think that given all of the above, and what Shaq has said about his willingness to take a shot ...   I think it is very likely that he will give it a try in a game, at some point before the playoffs are done.  To put a number on it ...  85% probability...    my number - you can argue it up or down,  but its based on the facts above, as we know them, not on hope.     I hope he does get to try it in a game... , and I hope his leg holds up for a few crucial games.   If his leg holds up I'm confident he will make a positive contribution to the Celtics efforts  maybe to their 18th championship.       SO... when you say " Hate to burst the bubble of some of the guys here. Shaq is not coming back....".     I say BS,   what do you know that no one else in the Celtics world knows.        Your opening phrase...."hate to burst the  bubble of some of the guys here..."  is obnoxious and condescending (not to mention a contradiction, a lie AND  a cliche)..    Your first assertion " Shaq is not coming back....".  is at best unknowable and in my opinion unlikely...but asserting it as a fact is just dumb.    So if you want to avoid "slanging matches" with people you don't know then just learn to curb your condescending BS.  And then i'll curb mine. . We agree on at least one thing.... whather or not Shaq comes back,   the Celts have a legitimate shot at #18   Go Celts
    Posted by videoburns[/QUOTE]

    agree on Shaq, well written

    Disagree that we have a shot at a title w/o him.

    Unless  Kristic is somehow a 14 minute, 6 point, 3 rebound Center who plays serious defense, we have no title shot w/o the Nov-Jan Shaq
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    JO's play has been excellent so far given his limitations. I'd rather have Perk but if JO can continue to play like this that will really close the gap. 

    Before the playoffs I thought we needed 20 minutes from Shaq to win a ring. Now with the play of JO I don't think we need that. Maybe 10-15 quality minutes from Shaq would do it. If Atlanta finishes Orlando off we might not need Shaq until the finals, and then only if LA can make it. 

    I'm pleased by how well things are going. The lack of bench contributions, in particular from Jeff Green, is starting to emerge as the biggest concern with JO playing so well. We'll see. Glad for the team to get rest and practcie this week.
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : agree on Shaq, well written Disagree that we have a shot at a title w/o him. Unless  Kristic is somehow a 14 minute, 6 point, 3 rebound Center who plays serious defense, we have no title shot w/o the Nov-Jan Shaq
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE

    didn't say easy   just legit shot.    JO keeps it up,  Baby plays like knicks game 4   I'll take our chances against the bulls   and the lakers are looking weaker by the day.
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : agree on Shaq, well written Disagree that we have a shot at a title w/o him. Unless  Kristic is somehow a 14 minute, 6 point, 3 rebound Center who plays serious defense, we have no title shot w/o the Nov-Jan Shaq Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE didn't say easy   just legit shot.    JO keeps it up,  Baby plays like knicks game 4   I'll take our chances against the bulls   and the lakers are looking weaker by the day.
    Posted by videoburns[/QUOTE]

    Yeah maybe

    If we get past Miami only to face Atlanta or a hobbled confidence lacking chicago team... and then get to the finals only to face a team that is not LA,  therefore giving us homecourt or the equally old not scary spurs (who may not gte past the Grizz)... then we could pull it out.


    If we have no Shaq and face the post all-star regular season bulls and/or the Jan-March Lakers... no we don't win then
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]Having a true big man is key to the Celtics success. JO is such a player. ... and you are right it is a very small sample. Statistics only tell part of the story for the Celtics at the Center position. The Cs have the big four for scoring, however, it will be the defensive play of JO that will determine his worth this year. Even if Shaq returns, his play will be limited because of foul trouble and lack of playing. JO will be as important to the Celtics success as Shaq. JO's play may eclipse Perkin's defensive play and it may not. I do know that JO is a better offensive player.
    Posted by MinnesotaCelticsFan[/QUOTE]

    I think the story the stats don't say is also equal between both players... that being the y are intimidator/rim protector guys others shy away from in the paint.

    Perk may have a slight edge there in that he is 27 w/ a sultan chin beard, deep scowl and rep for not liking other players... while JO is a little more happy-go-lucky w/ the rep as damaged goods career underachiever.
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : read my whole post and comprehend. i do welcome intelligent analysis and I hate to get into arguments or slanging matches with people I don't even know. I love the Celtics as much as the next fan. So don't assume things about me that you obviously don't know.  tell me where I am wrong and also tell me are you basing your opinion on facts or on hope. the fact is Shaq is old and injured and he is 39.As much as I would like to be a homer I also want to be pragmatic. even if Shaq comes back how effective he is going to be, missing all that action for 2+ months. last time he came back he lasted what 5 minutes. were you watching that game. what happened there? did atmosphere create some mysterious nerve reaction while he was injured in a non physical play?  how do you think his leg is going to react when he really bangs into somebody or takes a charge?
    Posted by framdude[/QUOTE]

    We are assuming he comes back to give 80-90% of what he did Nov-Jan.

    Not that he comes back to play 5 mins and get hurt again, or drag around a gimpy leg. I assume he can do that now. We feel his 'legit' health... allowing for 12-16 mins, can win us a title.

    I'd say it is less than 50-50 that we get that.

    If we get an 8 minute guy who simply straps on the big boy pants for 8 mins of 4 point 2 rebound ball... it will be hard to beat top 5 teams in the league.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    JO's newfound postop durability has been as much a surprise as Rondo rediscovering his game.
    Hoping both these stories continue.
    I'm currently overseas and am jonesing so much for Celtic playoff basketball tv.
    Catching scores and dodging mosquitoes over here in LOS.
    Celtics the only team to sweep the first round.
    That's another story.  Myself and half the posters here are shaking are heads in sweet disbelief.
    I have a feeling the bench is going to step up.
    Anyobdy else thinking that?
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    If DA didn't panic and trade Perkins away, our middle would be loaded with three major bigs, and the prospects for banner #18 would be very bright.  Also, Shaq's injury would not be such a big concern. Opposing teams no longer fear the Celtics defense and attack the middle with impunity. DA should have kept his focus on winning #18 instead of tinkering with a lineup that really didn't need any fixing.
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]If DA didn't panic and trade Perkins away, our middle would be loaded with three major bigs, and the prospects for banner #18 would be very bright.  Also, Shaq's injury would not be such a big concern. Opposing teams no longer fear the Celtics defense and attack the middle with impunity. DA should have kept his focus on winning #18 instead of tinkering with a lineup that really didn't need any fixing.
    Posted by edcap99[/QUOTE]

    And Pierce would be dead tired because we still wouldn't have a backup for him.  Don't worry, teams will fear the Celtics again.  JO and hopefully Shaq will take care of that.
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]Last 3 rd's of the '08/10 playoffs: PJ - 16 minute, 3.7 point, 3 rebound, .5 block Sheed - 17 minute, 7 point, 3 rebound, .7 block They both played excellent defense. Kristic CANNOT PLAY PLAYOFF DEFENSE. PJ was just 6 months younger than Shaq and Sheed played through a bad back... The point? We are going to need 3 rounds of the playoffs where we get like a 14 minute, 6 pointy, 4 rebound 1 block Shaquille O'Neal if we are going to be champions. We can 100% replace Perk with JON. We CANNOT win w/o Shaq.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Funny how Kristic played defense yesterday...blocking crap and rebounding in the few minutes he was in there!  He's helping out whenever he can....hard to do when you get thrown into the fire for a few tidbits minutes!  Everything is clicking so chalax!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from framdude. Show framdude's posts

    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : OK...   in the early season with little or no practice time shaq made an immediate positive contribution as soon as he started to play...    his supposed defensive deficit - (pick and roll)  was never an unmanageable issue.   His 66% shooting was a boon...   his hard fouls in the lane a clear intimidation factor.   He was out for injuries a few times   and each time he came back, his contribution on the floor was immediate.   Even in the five minute game when he re-injured his leg he scored 6 points in the five minutes he played.        If his leg heals enough for him to have a little mobility he could certainly make those same contributions again... with little or no time needed to "get up to speed"   His play will be limited but he could easily make a substantial positive contribution at 10-15 min a game....   He is willing to take a shot of whatever in his leg to manage the pain...   It seems the Celts are holding him out as long as possible because they know he may not have more than a few games before he tears his leg muscle more...   and the longer they let it heal, the better chance it has of holding up longer against the strain of game action.    The Celts need 12 wins for another banner.   If I was calling the shots  even if Shaq was able to play today, I would hold him back from playing until the Celts lose 2 games - or until they are in the finals ... whichever comes first.       So that is what I think MIGHT be happening.         While its true that it also Might be that Shaq's leg just isn't healing enough to give him enough mobility to contribute,  there is NO evedence, that I have seen, that that is the case. And I think that given all of the above, and what Shaq has said about his willingness to take a shot ...   I think it is very likely that he will give it a try in a game, at some point before the playoffs are done.  To put a number on it ...  85% probability...    my number - you can argue it up or down,  but its based on the facts above, as we know them, not on hope.     I hope he does get to try it in a game... , and I hope his leg holds up for a few crucial games.   If his leg holds up I'm confident he will make a positive contribution to the Celtics efforts  maybe to their 18th championship.       SO... when you say " Hate to burst the bubble of some of the guys here. Shaq is not coming back....".     I say BS,   what do you know that no one else in the Celtics world knows.        Your opening phrase...."hate to burst the  bubble of some of the guys here..."  is obnoxious and condescending (not to mention a contradiction, a lie AND  a cliche)..    Your first assertion " Shaq is not coming back....".  is at best unknowable and in my opinion unlikely...but asserting it as a fact is just dumb.    So if you want to avoid "slanging matches" with people you don't know then just learn to curb your condescending BS.  And then i'll curb mine. . We agree on at least one thing.... whather or not Shaq comes back,   the Celts have a legitimate shot at #18   Go Celts
    Posted by videoburns[/QUOTE]
    seriously man. read your post. you are saying IF Shaq is healthy. IF he takes a shot...etc.etc. and call that "based on the facts presented above" really and you are calling me a BS.
    as far as my post is concerned this is what i said.
    "Shaq is not coming back and even if he is,  he is not going to give you anything on the defensive end other than a big body"
    so since you seem to know more about writing than me, may be you can re-read this and tell me how this is a sweeping statement. There is a reason for my assertion, because this is how KG's injury played out over the playoffs. so I might have my own thesis for basing my opinion and I never called it a fact. if you think I did, so be it. I will believe my eyes when I see Shaq not just running but contributing.
    I would like where this Shaq taking a shot story is coming from. I have not heard it anywhere is CSN or other blogs. I don't know if this is an injury where taking a shot can help you at  all. If he can take a shot and play, the Celtics/ Shaq would have done that (my opinion). I am no doctor, from what i read from news articles. Dr Mckeon has clearly said and I am not BSing here "that muscle area has very little blood flow and only treatment is time" and i am paraphrasing.
    so I am not sure what kind of evidence  you need to make up your mind, which is fine you have your facts and opinion. I take a doctor's word as a fact. Celtics might not want to tip their hand and they are indeed hoping Shaq comes back. So there is big uncertainty. he is the "BIG UNCERTAIN" these days going by the list of names he like to give himself.

    as far as pick and roll defense,  what happens in regular season for 82 games has no bearing on the playoffs. I am not going to insult you by asking have you watched playoff basketball. But I am pretty sure you know this, what happens in regular season has nothing when it comes to playoffs. if you go and look at the games against legit contenders, Shaq has not been good (save a few games) he was constantly in foul trouble He had "0" points in LA and ineffective against Magic, did not do well against Chicago either. before he got hurt. The problem with numbers such as record with Shaq is they mask a lot more than they reveal. I know Shaq does bring intangibles with respect to intimidation..etc. I am not denying that. But overall you are assuming (maybe you are not) that IF shaq is healthy at 80-85% he could be good enough in the playoffs and that is exactly what I mentioned is the problem. we are not sure even if he is 85% that it will mean he is going to be effective. decreased mobility could be all the difference between a layup and a block or a charge or a blocking call.
     Coaches can game plan and  game you to death with pick and roll. if you don't believe that as a fact. just watch the game tape of Lakers and Hornets, how CP3 is putting the Lakers big man in disarray. I am sorry, you may hope that Shaq is going to be this great pick and roll guy (which he never was even in his heydays) but I am not counting on it. i would love to be proven wrong, obviously.
    Lastly, you practice what you preach. You are as much condescending to me in asking "have you watched the games". Do You think you are the only bright bulb here with basketball knowledge?
    I was not taking a personal shot at you. if you want to take a shot at me. that is fine. I can go down that road. If "Hate to burst the bubble" phrase is so obnoxious to you then I can't help it. If you don't want to respond to and you don't like something being said on the board, then move on. I do that all the time. I am not responding to each and every post and I read almost all the posts here, some i agree and some i don't, but I am not trying to be the forum police. Don't be condescending yourself and call someone else condescending, because that would make you a hypocrite.
    you seem to be an intelligent poster, who might have mistaken me for other trolls, I would like to put his mini argument behind us and look forward to reading your opinions.
    Let us enjoy some playoff basketball!!! Go Celtics
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    I'll take JO today "as is" over Perk today "as is". The biggest reason? JO can score. I love that little jumper he has. Very dependable.

    Perk on OKC looks as lost on offense as ever; dude still has to gather himself just to dunk a ball, this after YEARS of trying to get a dependable shot into his game. This is what made me crazy about the guy, as much as I love him. And, IMO, it's what got him traded in the end...he wasn't getting better and wasn't likely to. Just as Clifford Ray about that.
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : read my whole post and comprehend. i do welcome intelligent analysis and I hate to get into arguments or slanging matches with people I don't even know. I love the Celtics as much as the next fan. So don't assume things about me that you obviously don't know.  tell me where I am wrong and also tell me are you basing your opinion on facts or on hope. the fact is Shaq is old and injured and he is 39.As much as I would like to be a homer I also want to be pragmatic. even if Shaq comes back how effective he is going to be, missing all that action for 2+ months. last time he came back he lasted what 5 minutes. were you watching that game. what happened there? did atmosphere create some mysterious nerve reaction while he was injured in a non physical play?  how do you think his leg is going to react when he really bangs into somebody or takes a charge?
    Posted by framdude[/QUOTE]

    JO seems to be doing fine after missing all that time. Don't you think? Shaq had 6 points in 6 minutes before the injury again. Hey, I'm hoping he comes back and gives us some minutes.
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    noone talks about Perks offense regressing last year and his value going forward most likely without the big 4 for the long term...They wanted to get an offensive minded player.  They liked what JO did for the Heat last year and thought he could help.   They were right.  I am not gonna bash Perk but he was called for a travel trying to make a move...he is still short on that little 2 foot baby hook.  Just not enough offensively....and his minutes are down...because OKC gets up and down and perk is usually limbering behind everyone...But I will admit,..they love him down there...because he is gritty and a likeable guy with leadership.  The Celtics still have a ton of that with K.G. Ray and Paul so we didnt really need that from Perk.  We NEEDED a backup to Paul who can defend and also make the other defender play defense on him,...something Quis did, but Tony did not.  Not hard to understand.  The Perk apologist refuses to even take into account the Paul and ray backup problem....it doesnt support their argument...so they ignore it.  I think Green will be big agianst Lebron next series...he can also cover Wade for a bit...
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats : seriously man. read your post. you are saying IF Shaq is healthy. IF he takes a shot...etc.etc. and call that "based on the facts presented above" really and you are calling me a BS. as far as my post is concerned this is what i said. "Shaq is not coming back and even if he is,  he is not going to give you anything on the defensive end other than a big body" so since you seem to know more about writing than me, may be you can re-read this and tell me how this is a sweeping statement. There is a reason for my assertion, because this is how KG's injury played out over the playoffs. so I might have my own thesis for basing my opinion and I never called it a fact. if you think I did, so be it. I will believe my eyes when I see Shaq not just running but contributing. I would like where this Shaq taking a shot story is coming from. I have not heard it anywhere is CSN or other blogs. I don't know if this is an injury where taking a shot can help you at  all. If he can take a shot and play, the Celtics/ Shaq would have done that (my opinion). I am no doctor, from what i read from news articles. Dr Mckeon has clearly said and I am not BSing here "that muscle area has very little blood flow and only treatment is time" and i am paraphrasing. so I am not sure what kind of evidence  you need to make up your mind, which is fine you have your facts and opinion. I take a doctor's word as a fact. Celtics might not want to tip their hand and they are indeed hoping Shaq comes back. So there is big uncertainty. he is the "BIG UNCERTAIN" these days going by the list of names he like to give himself. as far as pick and roll defense,  what happens in regular season for 82 games has no bearing on the playoffs. I am not going to insult you by asking have you watched playoff basketball. But I am pretty sure you know this, what happens in regular season has nothing when it comes to playoffs. if you go and look at the games against legit contenders, Shaq has not been good (save a few games) he was constantly in foul trouble He had "0" points in LA and ineffective against Magic, did not do well against Chicago either. before he got hurt. The problem with numbers such as record with Shaq is they mask a lot more than they reveal. I know Shaq does bring intangibles with respect to intimidation..etc. I am not denying that. But overall you are assuming (maybe you are not) that IF shaq is healthy at 80-85% he could be good enough in the playoffs and that is exactly what I mentioned is the problem. we are not sure even if he is 85% that it will mean he is going to be effective. decreased mobility could be all the difference between a layup and a block or a charge or a blocking call.  Coaches can game plan and  game you to death with pick and roll. if you don't believe that as a fact. just watch the game tape of Lakers and Hornets, how CP3 is putting the Lakers big man in disarray. I am sorry, you may hope that Shaq is going to be this great pick and roll guy (which he never was even in his heydays) but I am not counting on it. i would love to be proven wrong, obviously. Lastly, you practice what you preach. You are as much condescending to me in asking "have you watched the games". Do You think you are the only bright bulb here with basketball knowledge? I was not taking a personal shot at you. if you want to take a shot at me. that is fine. I can go down that road. If "Hate to burst the bubble" phrase is so obnoxious to you then I can't help it. If you don't want to respond to and you don't like something being said on the board, then move on. I do that all the time. I am not responding to each and every post and I read almost all the posts here, some i agree and some i don't, but I am not trying to be the forum police. Don't be condescending yourself and call someone else condescending, because that would make you a hypocrite. you seem to be an intelligent poster, who might have mistaken me for other trolls, I would like to put his mini argument behind us and look forward to reading your opinions. Let us enjoy some playoff basketball!!! Go Celtics
    Posted by framdude[/QUOTE]

    http://www.redsarmy.com/home/2011/03/your-morning-dump-the-big-3-tell-shaq-to-sit-out.html


    If the playoffs were to begin tonight, O’Neal said he would take his foot medicine and be out on the floor.

    “Yes, and I would probably have to go back to a little old-school tactics,” O’Neal said. “But I have to give credit to Doc McKeon and Doc Rivers because they wouldn’t let me shoot it up and go out. I’m an old-school guy. If I can walk I can play, and I’ve had to shoot it up many times. But they want me 100 percent healthy and I’m getting there. Right now I’m about 85 percent.”


    That was the beginning of March.   They didn't want him to play then unless he could play pain free without local pain medication...   Do you think they will have the same reservations about him playing in the playoffs?  I don't think so.  I think they will encourage him or at the very least allow him to take a shot of pain medication if it enables him to get onto the floor and run the court even if it increases the chance of further injury. 

      It is a fact that Shaq said he would do this...  I try to be careful in my writing to distinguish the facts from my suppositions and from my opinions.        
    You don't seem  to think that those are important distinctions.    
    I think there is a difference between  "Shaq is not coming back..."   and "I don't think Shaq will be coming back.."     

    But I'm not the board rhetoric police...  just a slightly bored guy who was slightly offended by the tone  of your post...  and in disagreement with its conclusions...   SO I responded in kind...  with nearly the exact cliche phrase you used ("I hate to Burst your bubble")and with the exact kind of unsupported  assertion that you made ("you didn't watch the games Shaq played this year").

    So you took offense and wrote a long post in response...      in other words, you took offense at exactly the same thing that you think I should not have been offended by. 

    Of course "taking offense" is too strong a term for this minor irritation...  

    You think that Shaq definitely will not play ... I think there is a good chance he will play, from the same facts we draw different opinions... no prob time will tell..   
     You think at 85% shaq is not a key contributer...  I think he is....  perhaps time will answer that as well...  I hope it does.  

    You think that what happens in the regular season has "NO BEARING" on what happens in the playoffs....    it seems that you may be in the habit of over stating your case.   In 82 games this year Dwayne Wade and Lebron were most often the high scorers on the Miami Heat.   I would say that it is likely that pattern will continue throughout Miami's playoff run.    But if I am wrong and what happens in the regular season has "NO BEARING" on what happens in the playoffs,  then why do you point out how Shaq did against "legit contenders" in the regular season?     

    I don't really want answers to these rhetorical questions,  but please don't tell me I should read my own posts...    
            Enjoy the Miami series....
     
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    Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats

    In Response to Re: Jermaine O'Neal vs. Perkins: Celtic playoff stats:
    [QUOTE]If DA didn't panic and trade Perkins away, our middle would be loaded with three major bigs, and the prospects for banner #18 would be very bright.  Also, Shaq's injury would not be such a big concern. Opposing teams no longer fear the Celtics defense and attack the middle with impunity. DA should have kept his focus on winning #18 instead of tinkering with a lineup that really didn't need any fixing.
    Posted by edcap99[/QUOTE]


    yeah maybe we could have used one of those centers to backup Paul Pierce too.  I wonder who would have made a better SF,  Perk of JON, I would still have to say JON. He is more agile, but its a stretch to think they could defend Lebron....  By trading Perk, D.A was focusing on # 18, because Paul needs a rest or we wont go far.  Remember game 7 how gassed he looked because Quis couldnt get any run??   Tell the whole story and stop shytting on D.A. 
     
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