Re: Josh Smith Talks are on again.
posted at 6/26/2013 4:41 PM EDT
In response to rameakap's comment:
In response to Mployee8's comment:
In response to kdp59's comment:
I need some help with the capologist on the board here.
I am confused by the articles' explaination (or lack of ) as to how the Celtics can get Smith.
I understand we can trade Pierce and his $15M + contract to team with the cap space (say cleveland)
but how does that get us enough space to sign Smith for $15M or there abouts?
I saw the term "trade exception" but I am not clear what that even means.
so my quesitions are;
1) why couldn't we just Sign Smith?
2) if we have to TRADE for him , what do we have to TRADE in a sign and trade ( do players traded have to add up to his first year contract? a "tarde exception" whatever that is and how does THAT work/).
3) if we only have to send a "trade exception" why would Atlanta want to do it?
1) We are over the cap and can't sign a Free Agent without an exception. We need to get a Player Traded Exception first and that can only be used in a trade ... It can't be used to sign free agents.
2) Once a PTE is acquired, a team can trade any player or draft pick and take back more salary even though over the cap as long as the TPE will cover the difference between the player given up and the player received.
3) We don't send our trade exception. Say we send a player (Terry @ $5MM) for Smith. Terry's salary is used to reduce the amount owed for Smith (say $17MM in a S&T) ... that means Atlanta gets their own PTE for $12MM as a result of the transaction and the C's PTE is reduced by a like amount ($12MM) leaving the C's with a $3MM balance on their PTE.
The question I have.... the story doesn't say whether the trade will take place before or after 6/30th. Fungus34 says the C's can't trade with the Cavs until 7/1 cuz the Cavs don't have enough cap space until their current contracts expire on 7/1. But I thought that a team under the cap could take on all the salary they wanted and this story seems to indicate that is the case, as the story says $15MM for Pierce rather than his 2013-14' salary of $16.7MM.
It's important because if the C's can trade on draft night they don't have to take the risk of letting Pierce's full contract go into effect and then worrying about whether the Cavs will still do the deal after the C's are on the hook come 7/1. The story seems to indicate that yes, the Cavs can take on Pierce before 7/1 for draft picks and the resulting PTE would be about $15MM otherwise they s/b indicating a PTE of $16.7MM if the deal were to be done after 6/30. Curious to see what others think or if any additional info develops regarding when this trade would be exercised ... before or after 6/30th (????).
The Celts can't trade with the Cavs until after July 1st, I've been saying this for weeks, apparently Fungus has jumped on my posting of this, but I have him on ignore as you should as well Mployee.
I'm not sure how TPE's work as far as trading them in conjuction with another player. I always thought you could only trade the exception for one player, not mix and match multiple incoming/outgoing players with it.
Either way, the Hawks would have no interest in any og our overpaid guards, MAYBE Crawford, but they have been there done that with him. The only thing that would make sense is to send them Bass (6.75m) along with 8-9 million of PP's TPE amount of 15.3 to give Smith a 4 year 60 million deal.
In that situation we save 7 million of the TPE to use on another player, say Redick or since we'd still need a big man, Dalembert or Kaman (Bynum/Big Akl is prob out of tha price range). But again I didn't think you could split the TPE and/or use it with multiple other players.
Rame, there are two types of trades involving TPEs ... Simultaneous and Non-simultaneous. In a simultaneous trade multiple players can be involved on either side as long as the roster spots are available and the taxpayer/non-taxpayer limits are honored. It's a one trade and done deal so the team making the trade using the TPE has less time but gets to take back more salary then it sends out.
Conversely, with the Non-simultaneous trade the team has more time (1 yr) but can only take back what they send out plus $100K. So if the C's get a TPE for $15MM then they have a year to execute a trade for up to but no more than what Pierce was getting plus $100K. They can only use the trade exception to acquire one player in a given trade. But if they have unused PTE they can use that for another trade on one player as well if done within the 1 yr time frame and it's equal or less than the remaining TPE.
That's not to say that the C's couldn't do a TPE transaction with Atlanta using the TPE for one player and at the same time execute another trade for multiple players between the two teams as long as the TPE money is only used to acquire one player of the bunch.