KG and Points in the Paint

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    KG and Points in the Paint

    KG had 10 points, 8 points from jump shots and 2 points from the FT line. No matter how much KG is loved by Celtic fans it still won't change the fact that he's a jump shooting PF. 

    If the Celtics are going to win a championship KG needs to get it done inside the paint. 





     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    KG - 10 points
    Gasol - 20 points

    Perk - 12 points
    Bynum - 16 points
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    If you've been watching KG since he became a Celtic, you shouldnt be wondering why KG doesnt score more in the paint. Simple fact, its not his game.

    Rarely will you see KG finish strong under the basket either. HEs big, intimidating to some but really a finesse player. A vg jump shooter and does many, many things for the Celtics. His post game is usally a fall away jumper or reverse layup. Hes not Shaq in the post. Hes not DH in the post.

    No sense hoping he becomes what hes not. Hes good enough for what he does for us to win a title...hes already proven that.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]If you've been watching KG since he became a Celtic, you shouldnt be wondering why KG doesnt score more in the paint. Simple fact, its not his game. Rarely will you see KG finish strong under the basket either. HEs big, intimidating to some but really a finesse player. A vg jump shooter and does many, many things for the Celtics. His post game is usally a fall away jumper or reverse layup. Hes not Shaq in the post. Hes not DH in the post. No sense hoping he becomes what hes not. Hes good enough for what he does for us to win a title...hes already proven that.
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    KG never won a ring when Bynum was playing against him in the Finals. 

    All I'm saying is KG needs to rise to the occasion because that's what great players do. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeamUmbutu. Show TeamUmbutu's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    The team needs a somewhat healthy bench to compete. The Celtics can not play their brand of defense unless they can accept fouls and have replacements for periods of time. No defense, no win.

    As good as KG looked in the first Laker game, he looked that bad last night.

    What you are saying about KG has been said about him from day one in the NBA. It did not matter in 2008, and it will not matter in 2011, if the Celtics can play their brand of defense.

    Lets hope that the Celtics get healthy fast.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint : KG never won a ring when Bynum was playing against him in the Finals.  All I'm saying is KG needs to rise to the occasion because that's what great players do. 
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

    Whats that got to do with KGs post game? Doesnt matter if Bynums playing, KGs post game isnt a power game and Bynum is a center, not PF. Most of KGs points come from the perimter and easy layups/lobs.

    KG doesnt go up well in traffic in the lane, doesnt matter who he playing against...so not following your point
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]The team needs a somewhat healthy bench to compete. The Celtics can not play their brand of defense unless they can accept fouls and have replacements for periods of time. No defense, no win. As good as KG looked in the first Laker game, he looked that bad last night. What you are saying about KG has been said about him from day one in the NBA. It did not matter in 2008, and it will not matter in 2011, if the Celtics can play their brand of defense. Lets hope that the Celtics get healthy fast.
    Posted by TeamUmbutu[/QUOTE]

    The Celtics are leading the league in points allowed, 91.5 ppg. Last night the Lakers only managed to score 92 points. That means defense was not the problem last night.

    Against the Cavs last year KG dominated Antawn Jamison. Sure KG took some jump shots against Jamison, but Jamison couldn't do anything when KG was in the paint. The point is KG has the skills, he just needs to step up against opponents as tall as he is.  
     
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    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint : Whats that got to do with KGs post game? Doesnt matter if Bynums playing, KGs post game isnt a power game and Bynum is a center, not PF. Most of KGs points come from the perimter and easy layups/lobs. KG doesnt go up well in traffic in the lane, doesnt matter who he playing against...so not following your point
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    Last year against the Cavs and Antawn Jamison. KG dominated Jamison in the paint! 


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    I tend to side more with P34 on this one.  True, KG is not a banger in the post for layups or dunks.  He's not going to fight and bang for those kinds of baskets.  But KG has been reluctant to go deep in the lane and take the 5 or 10 footer (like he does baseline).  KG would take it down low and take the straight on jumper deep in the post.  Now, he's simply relegated to 15 foot jump shots and that's not going to get us the ring.  He's too long and effective to be that far from the basket.

    When we won the championship, the play everyone remembers is KG taking it aggressive to the rim, getting hit by Gasol, double clutching the ball and banking in a shot while hanging in the air as he fell to the floor.  KG can no longer hang in the air like that but he still has the skills to get that shot off that deep in the post.  Seems to me that he has just abandoned that part of his game and just settles for standing on the perimeter shooting jumpers.

    I looked at his numbers for last night and they were not very productive.  What got me most was that he played only 34 minutes.  He wasn't in foul trouble and we were playing very short-handed.  We had 3 days off so I expected 40 minutes from him especially if he was going to stand on the perimeter and shoot jumpers all night.  Ray was in foul trouble and he played 35 minutes.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint : Last year against the Cavs and Antawn Jamison. KG dominated Jamison in the paint! 
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

    Dominating one smaller player in the paint doesnt make KG a good post player, especially when the rest of that team has very weak defensive bigs in general.

    I bet Nate would be a great post player if Mugsy Bogues was playing him and had little defensive help
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    The fact is that you never can change a players game after 14 years in the league.  KG's been a jump shooting power forward forever and he's not going to change now.   Moreover, look at him.  He's a strong thin guy but the key is that he's thin.  He does not have the weight and muscle to work people down low.  He'll get an occasional point down there but its not going to be the bulk of his game as thin as he is.  Being 7 feet tall isn't the issue.....its his weight and strength.

    We can win with the strengths we have - we have before and we will again.  But, we have to have all of our tools.  KG is not going to be a substitute for the 8 or 10 points Shaq can give there (and the fouls he'll draw).  KG is not a substitute for Paul's shooting, which has been off partially due to a bug the last few days and he has been off for about 4 or 5 games.   Paul will start playing better (he's our slasher and person who can get his own shot at the end of games).  He's just been a little off and it affects us.   Perk CANNOT provide any offense at the end of games so when BBD isn't giving us points at the end and Paul isn't giving us points at the end, we are going to struggle some.   

    I'd love for KG to get more post up points, but I suspect he can only do that so much and he's just not up to it at this time of the season (dog days of the NBA).  Should he?  Yes.  Will he and can he.....probably not....its just not his normal game no matter how much we want him to be someone different than he is.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    Larry Bird is my favorite Celtic because Larry Bird would always rise to the occasion. Bird would do whatever it takes to win. That's how great Larry Bird was. 

    I mean KG is a 7-footer! Celtic fans say Pau Gasol is soft, but why is it Gasol usually has more points in the paint than KG? 

    Gasol can't even dunk the ball like KG!

    Stop with the excuses. KG needs to step up period!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]The fact is that you never can change a players game after 14 years in the league.  KG's been a jump shooting power forward forever and he's not going to change now.   Moreover, look at him.  He's a strong thin guy but the key is that he's thin.  He does not have the weight and muscle to work people down low.  He'll get an occasional point down there but its not going to be the bulk of his game as thin as he is.  Being 7 feet tall isn't the issue.....its his weight and strength. We can win with the strengths we have - we have before and we will again.  But, we have to have all of our tools.  KG is not going to be a substitute for the 8 or 10 points Shaq can give there (and the fouls he'll draw).  KG is not a substitute for Paul's shooting, which has been off partially due to a bug the last few days and he has been off for about 4 or 5 games.   Paul will start playing better (he's our slasher and person who can get his own shot at the end of games).  He's just been a little off and it affects us.   Perk CANNOT provide any offense at the end of games so when BBD isn't giving us points at the end and Paul isn't giving us points at the end, we are going to struggle some.    I'd love for KG to get more post up points, but I suspect he can only do that so much and he's just not up to it at this time of the season (dog days of the NBA).  Should he?  Yes.  Will he and can he.....probably not....its just not his normal game no matter how much we want him to be someone different than he is.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Pau Gasol 250 lbs.

    KG 253 lbs.

    Larry Bird is only 6-9 and 220 lbs. Did Bird lose to the Rockets and the twin towers, 7-4 Ralph Sampson and 7-0 Hakeem Olajuwon?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]Larry Bird is my favorite Celtic because Larry Bird would always rise to the occasion. Bird would do whatever it takes to win. That's how great Larry Bird was.  I mean KG is a 7-footer! Celtic fans say Pau Gasol is soft, but why is it Gasol usually has more points in the paint than KG?  Gasol can't even dunk the ball like KG! Stop with the excuses. KG needs to step up period!
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

    Silly, now you want KG to replace Larry lol.

    Look, Gasols game is in the post and what does it matter who dunks the ball better? THis is comical. 

    In fact, Gasol dunks frequently when he has a chance to whereas KG will opt to lay it in or fall away with a shot. Many other times KG throws it at hoop like a baseball. He just doesnt operate well or feel comfortable down low unless he's falling away with a jumper or an easy alleyoop.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    Celtsfan4life, KG has always been able to offensively:
     1 - get in the lane and do his jump stop jump hook (from dunks 5 years ago)
     2 - fallaway jumper on left or right block or straight on in the paint
     3 - turnaround jumper on left or right block or straight on in the paint
     4 - shoot efficient 15-20 foot jump on perimeter.

    He can still get anywhere on the court and score and create problems but he just doesn't do that anymore.

    This is not something new that KG never did before.  That was his game, inside or out.  When you see him hit that fallaway or turnaround jumper on the left or right block, THAT is what he can do more of instead of spotting up 15-20 feet from the basket.  Nobody is suggesting this has never been his game.  It has!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    Because Gasol is much heavier than KG.  If you play the game you understand that certain body types have certain advantages.  KG, assuming he's healthy, can out jump and out run Gasol.  But he cannot out muscle Gasol and excuses or reasons - that just symantics.  The fact is that like it or not - KG is not going to out muscle Gasol nor Bynum underneath.  Same as Gasol is not going to out muscle Perk or Odom isn't going to out muscle anyone.

    I understand your sentiment, P34, and you can have fun being macho and posting that KG just needs to step up.  But, KG is going to be KG.  Rondo's not going to start hitting  60% on wide open jumpers, Ray's not going to develop one on one moves, Perk's not going to develop a great offensive game, BBD is not going to grow 6 or 8 inches, and KG's not going to be a inside banger.  We are who we are and unless Danny makes a move, we aren't going to get the bulk of our points that way.

    This is also a reason why Doc wants Rondo to push the ball more - to get an advantage on offensive matches and avoid trying to win by post ups!  It just ain't our game.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint : Silly, now you want KG to replace Larry lol. Look, Gasols game is in the post and what does it matter who dunks the ball better? THis is comical.  In fact, Gasol dunks frequently when he has a chance to whereas KG will opt to lay it in or fall away with a shot. Many other times KG throws it at hoop like a baseball. He just doesnt operate well or feel comfortable down low unless he's falling away with a jumper or an easy alleyoop.
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    More excuses?

    We already found out last year, Game 7 2010 Finals, that if Gasol outplays KG the Celtics will lose. 

    I'm not asking KG to replace Larry Bird. KG just needs to rise to the occasion. I mean, come on, an athletic 7-footer can only get to the foul line twice the whole game?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]I tend to side more with P34 on this one.  True, KG is not a banger in the post for layups or dunks.  He's not going to fight and bang for those kinds of baskets.  But KG has been reluctant to go deep in the lane and take the 5 or 10 footer (like he does baseline).  KG would take it down low and take the straight on jumper deep in the post.  Now, he's simply relegated to 15 foot jump shots and that's not going to get us the ring.  He's too long and effective to be that far from the basket. When we won the championship, the play everyone remembers is KG taking it aggressive to the rim, getting hit by Gasol, double clutching the ball and banking in a shot while hanging in the air as he fell to the floor.  KG can no longer hang in the air like that but he still has the skills to get that shot off that deep in the post.  Seems to me that he has just abandoned that part of his game and just settles for standing on the perimeter shooting jumpers. I looked at his numbers for last night and they were not very productive.  What got me most was that he played only 34 minutes.  He wasn't in foul trouble and we were playing very short-handed.  We had 3 days off so I expected 40 minutes from him especially if he was going to stand on the perimeter and shoot jumpers all night.  Ray was in foul trouble and he played 35 minutes.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    Petey, how long will fans keep yearning for KG to post up and tomahawk one in the face of DH?? Not going to happen!

    I agree, the play that stands out to me in the title yar was KGs double clutch, fall away 3 pt play.  But that wasnt a post move, it was off a pick and roll with PP.

    Even if it was, KG double clutched, fell away... thats not stuff from strong post players.  Kg can do well posting and fading in the lane or on the block but forget about stuff like Gasol does, Duncan, DH et al... its not his game.

    Hey, Nate is a 2x or 3x NBA dunk champion. When was the last time you saw Nate dunk in a Celtic uniform? Dunking is easy when theres no defenders on the floor. KG can probably put on a clinic of low post moves but in a game against NBA players, hes not effective.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]Because Gasol is much heavier than KG.  If you play the game you understand that certain body types have certain advantages.  KG, assuming he's healthy, can out jump and out run Gasol.  But he cannot out muscle Gasol and excuses or reasons - that just symantics.  The fact is that like it or not - KG is not going to out muscle Gasol nor Bynum underneath.  Same as Gasol is not going to out muscle Perk or Odom isn't going to out muscle anyone. I understand your sentiment, P34, and you can have fun being macho and posting that KG just needs to step up.  But, KG is going to be KG.  Rondo's not going to start hitting  60% on wide open jumpers, Ray's not going to develop one on one moves, Perk's not going to develop a great offensive game, BBD is not going to grow 6 or 8 inches, and KG's not going to be a inside banger.  We are who we are and unless Danny makes a move, we aren't going to get the bulk of our points that way. This is also a reason why Doc wants Rondo to push the ball more - to get an advantage on offensive matches and avoid trying to win by post ups!  It just ain't our game.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    KG - 253 lbs
    Gasol - 250 lbs

    KG is heavier than Gasol by 3 pounds.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]Because Gasol is much heavier than KG.  If you play the game you understand that certain body types have certain advantages.  KG, assuming he's healthy, can out jump and out run Gasol.  But he cannot out muscle Gasol and excuses or reasons - that just symantics.  The fact is that like it or not - KG is not going to out muscle Gasol nor Bynum underneath.  Same as Gasol is not going to out muscle Perk or Odom isn't going to out muscle anyone. I understand your sentiment, P34, and you can have fun being macho and posting that KG just needs to step up.  But, KG is going to be KG.  Rondo's not going to start hitting  60% on wide open jumpers, Ray's not going to develop one on one moves, Perk's not going to develop a great offensive game, BBD is not going to grow 6 or 8 inches, and KG's not going to be a inside banger.  We are who we are and unless Danny makes a move, we aren't going to get the bulk of our points that way. This is also a reason why Doc wants Rondo to push the ball more - to get an advantage on offensive matches and avoid trying to win by post ups!  It just ain't our game.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Agree
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    Sorry, Petey.  I disagree.  I think he's trying to hit those 5 to 10 footers but he's (a) not able to hit them with any consistency and (b) being pushed off the block more often.   Did you see KG miss those shots last night and miss badly?   He's either not able to do it or concerned about the leg.  But, if you know KG, you know he's NOT a guy without heart......so this ain't about him "just doing it".  Its about capability.  

    I believe he'll be better at season's end, but right now, there's a burnout, weakness (mental and physical) factor going on.  

    Time will tell, my man.

    PS.  P34 - I love Larry Bird too, but he didn't post up Ralph Sampson or Moses Malone.  He posted up Robert Reed.  Second, Larry Bird lost a lost of series....like getting SWEPT by the Milwaukee Bucks.  Everyone has some bad games so stop making  out like Larry Bird never lost to weaker opponents.  Everyone does.   Let's not let our frustrations make us illogical here.  OK?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]His game isn't going to change. I get angry that he doesn't ever attack the rim in the post and always does a fade away. It's not going to happen.
    Posted by tompenny[/QUOTE]

    Exactly! KG doesn't have to score in the paint all the time. Just attack the rim and chances are you'll end up getting fouled!

    Come on! Only 2 FT attempts for an athletic and talented 7-footer?

    Even Dirk gets to the FT line a lot more than KG. And to think Dirk is an outside shooting PF also! 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint : Petey, how long will fans keep yearning for KG to post up and tomahawk one in the face of DH?? Not going to happen! I agree, the play that stands out to me in the title yar was KGs double clutch, fall away 3 pt play.  But that wasnt a post move, it was off a pick and roll with PP. Even if it was, KG double clutched, fell away... thats not stuff from strong post players.  Kg can do well posting and fading in the lane or on the block but forget about stuff like Gasol does, Duncan, DH et al... its not his game. Hey, Nate is a 2x or 3x NBA dunk champion. When was the last time you saw Nate dunk in a Celtic uniform? Dunking is easy when theres no defenders on the floor. KG can probably put on a clinic of low post moves but in a game against NBA players, hes not effective.
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    THAT is what I'd love to see more of.  He can still do that and not with a result of a tomahawk dunk.  I'll take that with a clean finish.  The chances of drawing fouls is increased by doing more of this.  Oh, every now and then he can still knock down that jay but I think he should do more of this.

    This is not banging.  You're right, he cannot do much banging but he can still get his shot, especially against the majority of PF that he has the advantage over.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint : THAT is what I'd love to see more of.  He can still do that and not with a result of a tomahawk dunk.  I'll take that with a clean finish.  The chances of drawing fouls is increased by doing more of this.  Oh, every now and then he can still knock down that jay but I think he should do more of this. This is not banging.  You're right, he cannot do much banging but he can still get his shot, especially against the majority of PF that he has the advantage over.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    Ok but being down there is gonna exhaust him much more than hanging near the perimeter directing traffic, setting picks or shooting jumpers.   He'll also be last down the floor on defense. 

    I think theres a time & place for KG to do this but it takes alot of other things away from the team and also brings another defender into the lane. Considering he doesnt do it often, dont expect things to change. Must be a good reason for it


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: KG and Points in the Paint

    In Response to Re: KG and Points in the Paint:
    [QUOTE]The fact is that you never can change a players game after 14 years in the league.  KG's been a jump shooting power forward forever and he's not going to change now.   Moreover, look at him.  He's a strong thin guy but the key is that he's thin.  He does not have the weight and muscle to work people down low.  He'll get an occasional point down there but its not going to be the bulk of his game as thin as he is.  Being 7 feet tall isn't the issue.....its his weight and strength. We can win with the strengths we have - we have before and we will again.  But, we have to have all of our tools.  KG is not going to be a substitute for the 8 or 10 points Shaq can give there (and the fouls he'll draw).  KG is not a substitute for Paul's shooting, which has been off partially due to a bug the last few days and he has been off for about 4 or 5 games.   Paul will start playing better (he's our slasher and person who can get his own shot at the end of games).  He's just been a little off and it affects us.   Perk CANNOT provide any offense at the end of games so when BBD isn't giving us points at the end and Paul isn't giving us points at the end, we are going to struggle some.    I'd love for KG to get more post up points, but I suspect he can only do that so much and he's just not up to it at this time of the season (dog days of the NBA).  Should he?  Yes.  Will he and can he.....probably not....its just not his normal game no matter how much we want him to be someone different than he is.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    You hit the nail on the head.  I think lately for some reason, maybe the opposing defense, KG is forced out a little more out of his comfort zone.  His shots have been getting closer and closer to a 3 pter.  Not good.
     
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