LeBraun at it again

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinus007. Show sinus007's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In an article published by the Herald this morning LeBraun was up to his colluding self by tweeting " LeBron James is free to go on Twitter and openly invite Steve Nash to join the Heat "so we can help each other get our first ring." It can be a complicated animal, freedom of expression Although during the lockout and with no contract players can say and do anything...........something has to be done about LeBrauns I can do anything cause I am the king attitude............someone (can we say NBA) has to do something to put a stop to it..............how about sending him off to play for Sacramento..........
    Posted by damfuno[/QUOTE]

    Hi,
    What do you have against Sacramento, why do you hate them so much?Laughing

    AK
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In an article published by the Herald this morning LeBraun was up to his colluding self by tweeting " LeBron James is free to go on Twitter and openly invite Steve Nash to join the Heat "so we can help each other get our first ring." It can be a complicated animal, freedom of expression Although during the lockout and with no contract players can say and do anything...........something has to be done about LeBrauns I can do anything cause I am the king attitude............someone (can we say NBA) has to do something to put a stop to it..............how about sending him off to play for Sacramento..........
    Posted by damfuno[/QUOTE]

    He is also openly recruiting Baron Davis, who, alas, will probably end up with the lakers!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    The league office (King Stern) should block ANY trade or signing that involved collusion or even the hint of collusion on Lebron's part (including a Tweet).   This kind of behaviour is ridiculous!
     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]The league office (King Stern) should block ANY trade or signing that involved collusion or even the hint of collusion on Lebron's part (including a Tweet).   This kind of behaviour is ridiculous!
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    They didn't last time, why would they now?  Weren't you arguing the other way before?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : They didn't last time, why would they now?  Weren't you arguing the other way before?
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]


    No, I was arguing three things:

    1. The owners can make money in the existing system if they show more discipline by not signing bad contracts

    2. The players have come down from 57% to 52.5% BRI split so its time for the owners to compromise up to about 51% or 51.5%.  We need a compromise to get back to basketball.

    3. Free agency is appropriate for players after some amount of time (after they've fulfilled the requirements of a contract that is over 4 or 5 years)

    However, under no circumstances do I support players colluding to undermine a owners rights with a player or to undermine the owner's negotiation with a player.  That is what Lebron is doing.   He had the right to leave himself after he reached free agency - fair under the CBA.  He does NOT have the right to collude and recruit other players outside of what the owners say is ok.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : No, I was arguing three things: 1. The owners can make money in the existing system if they show more discipline by not signing bad contracts 2. The players have come down from 57% to 52.5% BRI split so its time for the owners to compromise up to about 51% or 51.5%.  We need a compromise to get back to basketball. 3. Free agency is appropriate for players after some amount of time (after they've fulfilled the requirements of a contract that is over 4 or 5 years) However, under no circumstances do I support players colluding to undermine a owners rights with a player or to undermine the owner's negotiation with a player.  That is what Lebron is doing.   He had the right to leave himself after he reached free agency - fair under the CBA.  He does NOT have the right to collude and recruit other players outside of what the owners say is ok.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]


    So, he and Wade colluding to get Bosh to join them in MIA was okay with you?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : No, I was arguing three things: 1. The owners can make money in the existing system if they show more discipline by not signing bad contracts 2. The players have come down from 57% to 52.5% BRI split so its time for the owners to compromise up to about 51% or 51.5%.  We need a compromise to get back to basketball. 3. Free agency is appropriate for players after some amount of time (after they've fulfilled the requirements of a contract that is over 4 or 5 years) However, under no circumstances do I support players colluding to undermine a owners rights with a player or to undermine the owner's negotiation with a player.  That is what Lebron is doing.   He had the right to leave himself after he reached free agency - fair under the CBA.  He does NOT have the right to collude and recruit other players outside of what the owners say is ok.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Usually agreeing with most of your posts but have many issues with this one.

    1. Bad contracts - We can all classify bad contracts in retrospect. Many signings take place with all good intentions and if the player doesnt perform, the owner is stuck. The owners are getting "professional advice" from their organization regarding player value... There's plenty of cheap contracts out there where less thought of players became all star quality...and vice versa.  ITs the cost of doing business in the NBA and value is so subjective...

    2. Negotiating the BRI - regardless of how far down the players have come... it doesnt naturally flow that the owners should now come up because it only seems fair... Negotiating is a process in which both sides can arrive at a figure they are willing to accept...has nothing to do with "I came down more than youre coming up"

    3. Player collusion - I dont see it as player collusion... THere is no financial influence Lebron or any other player has to lure another player to their team. I find nothing wrong with someone advocating another player to play for their team. It happens in everyday life all the time. In the end, its a personal decision on whats the best deal for the player... Now, if the NBA has certain rules prohibiting recruitment, then that'd be another story and its something I dont know the answer to.




     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : So, he and Wade colluding to get Bosh to join them in MIA was okay with you?
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]


    Show me the post where I said that was ok?   But, that's history now.   It was not punished so its done.  

    But, Stern has to take steps to stop it and not let it happen one more time.
     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : Usually agreeing with most of your posts but have many issues with this one. 1. Bad contracts - We can all classify bad contracts in retrospect. Many signings take place with all good intentions and if the player doesnt perform, the owner is stuck. The owners are getting "professional advice" from their organization regarding player value... There's plenty of cheap contracts out there where less thought of players became all star quality...and vice versa.  ITs the cost of doing business in the NBA and value is so subjective... 2. Negotiating the BRI - regardless of how far down the players have come... it doesnt naturally flow that the owners should now come up because it only seems fair... Negotiating is a process in which both sides can arrive at a figure they are willing to accept...has nothing to do with "I came down more than youre coming up" 3. Player collusion - I dont see it as player collusion... THere is no financial influence Lebron or any other player has to lure another player to their team. I find nothing wrong with someone advocating another player to play for their team. It happens in everyday life all the time. In the end, its a personal decision on whats the best deal for the player... Now, if the NBA has certain rules prohibiting recruitment, then that'd be another story and its something I dont know the answer to.
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]


    Hey, Karl.  

    You know from previous discussions that I respect your opinion.  I don't agree but I see your points.   I just believe in point number 1 above about bad contracts that its the judgement of the owners and their advisors that's in question - not the CBA structure.  If they want to make a change, then they should limit the number of long term contracts in the rules or otherwise protect themselves from their own bad judgement but my main point (in another thread which is where this conversation started) was that I don't support that they should never have long term, very high dollar contracts at all because some players really deserve it.  Its the "second tier" of contracts that have caused the issue.  

    High value contracts to Dwight Howard, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, KG, Pierce, Durant, etc are not problems in my mind.  Its Eddic Curry, Allan Houston, Rashard Lewis, and other mid-level players with very long term expensive deals that were owner/GM mistakes.  And......who here EVER thought when those deals were signed that they were good deals?  It was clear to the average fan that those were just dumb deals.  I remember when Lewis got his deal.  My friends and I were all saying to ourselves....."What??? they must be kidding!".

    Maybe a compromise is that every team gets 2 deals over "x" length?  I don't know the right answer but I simply think that in any business, owners and managers have to accept accountability for their own bad decisions and not blame that on the workers.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : Show me the post where I said that was ok?   But, that's history now.   It was not punished so its done.   But, Stern has to take steps to stop it and not let it happen one more time.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    See, Stern IS taking steps right now - it's called a lockout!!
    It WILL not happen again, the owners are making certain of that.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    I'm sorry, Red.  I missed the connection between a current lockout and Lebron colluding to bring players to Miami.   Was that post scarcastic and I just missed it or was it serious (its difficult to tell sometimes in  a post)?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]I'm sorry, Red.  I missed the connection between a current lockout and Lebron colluding to bring players to Miami.   Was that post scarcastic and I just missed it or was it serious (its difficult to tell sometimes in  a post)?
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    The owners want to lay the hammer down on this - they don't want the MeBron's of the world to control the league.  THEY want to control the league.  They are the owners after all.  You said Stern needs to do something to insure it never happens again.  They are!!  This is far from over, and the owners will get what they want - think Buss would rather change the system, or go from 20 million in tax dollars to 45 million?  That is what he would pay if the new system is voted on.  45 million in luxury tax!!  Not even he wants to do that!!
    No sarcasm, I just think it will be a slam dunk for the owners!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : Hey, Karl.   You know from previous discussions that I respect your opinion.  I don't agree but I see your points.   I just believe in point number 1 above about bad contracts that its the judgement of the owners and their advisors that's in question - not the CBA structure.  If they want to make a change, then they should limit the number of long term contracts in the rules or otherwise protect themselves from their own bad judgement but my main point (in another thread which is where this conversation started) was that I don't support that they should never have long term, very high dollar contracts at all because some players really deserve it.  Its the "second tier" of contracts that have caused the issue.   High value contracts to Dwight Howard, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, KG, Pierce, Durant, etc are not problems in my mind.  Its Eddic Curry, Allan Houston, Rashard Lewis, and other mid-level players with very long term expensive deals that were owner/GM mistakes.  And......who here EVER thought when those deals were signed that they were good deals?  It was clear to the average fan that those were just dumb deals.  I remember when Lewis got his deal.  My friends and I were all saying to ourselves....."What??? they must be kidding!". Maybe a compromise is that every team gets 2 deals over "x" length?  I don't know the right answer but I simply think that in any business, owners and managers have to accept accountability for their own bad decisions and not blame that on the workers.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Hard for me to understand... what's clear to the average fan & amateur  is missed by the professionals with a small army of advisors providing research & opinions about these players & subsequent contract signings. 

    It's analagous to frequent debates we have during the season... with many questioning Docs decisions about various things only to see responses like "Who should we listen to... Karl.. or the highly paid coach and former all star player DOc Rivers who is intimate with everything going on with the team & has coached the Celtics to an NBA title"???

    It's kinda funny that you're usually on Docs side in those discussions, im on the other.... but when it comes to todays discussion, we switch strategies..lol


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from passfirst. Show passfirst's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again


     this is just Lebron James being a wise guy, and at this point who cares.  I'd rather he get called for traveling, palming the dribble, and charging fouls than on this.

     Celtsfan4life, I agree on and have also mentioned that it's the middle 5 to 11 million dollar salaries for too many years which are burning teams more than the top tier salaries are.  I think in the last lock out, rookie deals were drawn back from 5 year to 3 year max deals.  While enabling the sure stars like Durant to get a large money contract faster, it has also helped to keep the development of young players more honest.  I'm hoping a similar change for the players with later stage contracts can occur this time around.  I have expressed the want for two year max deals, and perhaps with a third year team option.  I don't think this is realistic but I'd like to see players with a two year window to prove whether their potential is taking shape or not.  I think it would keep market value for players at a truer level.  

     More realistically, and what I think owners are asking for is a drop from 6 years to 4.  We don't hear much about this discussion because the reporting seems to be fixated on BRI (Maybe it's just a pipe dream or secondary for the owners and not considered as a real possibility).  Yet I think this is the biggest issue, as a fan.  At four years, we would still see mistakes like Posey at 6 mill for four years which was two years too many.  None the less, it would be an improvement in other situations.  As for an exception clause at the high end salary level for stars, this would certainly give teams and players more security, but I can also see it bumping some second tier players into the top tier salary range, causing an adverse effect.  Then again, if the stars were only committed for two/three years to their teams, we could see them playing colluding musical chairs. And that could turn into a disaster for the league as well.  

     It would be nice if they accomplished something that more closely rewards a combination of business discipline on the owners behalf, and keeping the players honest with their performance after they sign a big deal on the players behalf.  And I just also want to add that I think Danny and doc have showed tremendous discipline by letting players go who wanted extra years.  I know some folks missed Tony Allen this past year, at times.  But philosophically on a business level it was the smart and controlled thing to do.              
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]Where is the problem? It is standard in business world that employes talking to other employes. It is standard that people who know and like each other want to be in the same company, department ot team. I don't like LeBron at all, but talking to other employes to join your team is common in the business world and in sports all over the world.
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]

    But to tell your current employer you want to return, only to have him find out in a world-wide public debacle is humiliating...........MOST people give two weeks notice!!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    Where is the problem? It is standard in business world that employes talking to other employes. It is standard that people who know and like each other want to be in the same company, department ot team. I don't like LeBron at all, but talking to other employes to join your team is common in the business world and in sports all over the world.
     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    Gas - I'm with you on Lebron. I hate the guy but I see no problem with a free agent leaving after he stayed 7 years and put that franchise back on the map. the owner didn't show him a way to win a championship and let's face it....the main thing Lebron has to show the world is that he can win a championship. He already has enough money with his contract + endorsements! Karl - perhaps the difference in this situation is that we're talking about the "supposedly" well thought out business decisions about contracts and not heat of the battle coaching decisions. Danny pissed me off trading his starting center mid season but I do understand the Business reasons for not giving Perk a longer term big contract. That shows exactly the mgmt discipline a team manager needs to demonstrate! That's what Good GMs are supposed to do. Teams who can't think through those decisions should fire their GMs and limit their ability to spend money if they want to have a profit! Good management makes a HUGE difference in every business, right?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]Where is the problem? It is standard in business world that employes talking to other employes. It is standard that people who know and like each other want to be in the same company, department ot team. I don't like LeBron at all, but talking to other employes to join your team is common in the business world and in sports all over the world.
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]

    It's one thing to SAY it, it's another to KNOW for two years and then not tell anyone..................MeBron was gone after 5 years.  He is a coward who knows he cannot win a title as THE man.  Think Magic or Bird or Jordan would do what he did.  The guy has no sense of loyalty or competition........again, I don't mind THAT he left, I mind that he colluded with two other players, didn't tell anyone until the last minute, then left CLE high and dry without even a chance to do a sign and trade!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : But to tell your current employer you want to return, only to have him find out in a world-wide public debacle is humiliating...........MOST people give two weeks notice!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]

    You are right, but that is not the topic of this thread. I hate LeBron as well the decision was a stupid act and he (together with Wade and Bosh) embarresed himself, the Cavs and Miami. Anyway a good (or even an average) business man is prepared if his most important employe does not sign a contract in time. Gilbert acted like a true fool an he cannot blame anyone for that.

    The topic of this thread is another story: Is it ok if a player wants the best for his team and asks other guys to join him? In my opinion that is no problem. That doesn't hurt anyone (including the league) and is common in the sports and business world.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : You are right, but that is not the topic of this thread. I hate LeBron as well the decision was a stupid act and he (together with Wade and Bosh) embarresed himself, the Cavs and Miami. Anyway a good (or even an average) business man is prepared if his most important employe does not sign a contract in time. Gilbert acted like a true fool an he cannot blame anyone for that. The topic of this thread is another story: Is it ok if a player wants the best for his team and asks other guys to join him? In my opinion that is no problem. That doesn't hurt anyone (including the league) and is common in the sports and business world.
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]

    Threads go off topic all the time - it's a blog!!

    Don't really want to argue, but are you saying in your business model, you would recruit someone who is as good at your job (or better) as you for the beneift of the company?  Hmm......when I was in business, people were too paranoid about their jobs to do something like that.  It was every man for himself.  I do understand what you are saying, I just think under the last CBA Gilbert was not a fool, he simply had no choice.....it was MeBron or bust - the system did not allow him to lose a player and stay competitive.......things they will hopefully fix this time.  Peace, man  we both have strong opinions on this!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: LeBraun at it again

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]I do understand what you are saying, I just think under the last CBA Gilbert was not a fool, he simply had no choice.....it was MeBron or bust - the system did not allow him to lose a player and stay competitive.......things they will hopefully fix this time.  Peace, man  we both have strong opinions on this!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]
    No problem, we can agree do disagree on that. I just think Denver gave a good example how to react to a star wanting to leave, but well, just my opinion of course.

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again : Threads go off topic all the time - it's a blog!!Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]
    You are right! I just had the feeling that due to your hate on LeBron you mixe things together which are not related to each other.

    In Response to Re: LeBraun at it again:
    [QUOTE]Don't really want to argue, but are you saying in your business model, you would recruit someone who is as good at your job (or better) as you for the beneift of the company?  Hmm......when I was in business, people were too paranoid about their jobs to do something like that.  It was every man for himself.  Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]
    Don't want to argue either just want an honest discussion cause I'm interested in your opinion!

    And yes, I would and I already have (in my business and my sports team by the way). If your confident in your own skills you want your team as good as possible. One of the most important tasks of the team leader/manager is to let each member profit from the success of the entire team. And again, what made LeBron wrong in this particular case (not "the decision")? You think that he shouldn't want Nash to join Miami cause Nash could replace him and LeBron end up broke? ;-)
     

Share