Looking Back at 1984/85

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Looking Back at 1984/85

    I was going through some old newspapers that I kept from the Laker/Celtic Finals (I am an avid collector in some ways...)  this is the series review by Gannett sportswriter Bob Matthews

    "Celtics needed a healthy Maxwell" 

    Leading off with thoughts on the NBA Championship Series

      The victorious Los Angeles Lakers probably don't merit the title "all time best team" but with three championships in the last six years they deserve to be called "the team of the 1980's"
      Repeating next season would be a measure of greatness (16 consecutive champions have failed to repeat) and the team's chances look good. Los Angeles and Boston figure to remain a notch above the next level of teams and any other matchup in next year's finals would be an upset.

    If the Lakers lack one specific ingredient to be ranked among the all time best NBA teams, it probably is a rebounding power forward.Mitch Kupchak might have filled that bill before his major knee surgery.

    Kupchak and Kurt Rambis were the unsung heroes of the series. Whereas the rest of the Lakers need the ball to be happy, Kupchak and Rambis measure success by the number of floorburns they pick up diving for loose balls.

    After a remarkable exhibition of outside shooting in Game 1, Boston's long range gunners were off target most of the rest of the series. Danny Ainge had a higher average as a light hitting infielder for the Toronto Blue Jays than he had shooting jumpers yesterday.

    Here's a mild second guess on Boston Coach K.C. Jones for failing to give Ray Williams a chance yesterday when Ainge and Dennis Johnson were firing blanks (a combined 6-for-31). His erratic style of play isn't Celtic 101, but he is a streak shooter capable of getting his team back into a game.

    LA center Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the only active NBA player who finished college before 1970 and Boston center Robert Parish made him look like a candidate for retirement in Game 1. But in the rest of the series, Abdul-Jabbar looked seven years younger than Parish instead of seven years older.

    Boston forward Cedric Maxwell's knee injury limited him to a cameo role in the series and his absence should not be minimized. He was the MVP of the 1981 NBA Championship Series. (note: he was also the MVP of last year's Game 7) If K.C. had a healthy Maxwell yesterday, Kevin McHale probably wouldn't have fouled out with 5:19 to play.

    To the victors go the spoils. Abdul-Jabbar was the unanimous MVP of the series, but if Boston had won, McHale probably would've been the unanimous pick. McHale outscored (156-154) and outrebounded (55-54) Jabbar for the series.

    Boston's Larry Bird never uses injuries as an excuse, but don't be surprised if he soon undergoes surgery to remove bone chips from his shooting elbow. And his finger and ankle can use a long rest too. (note: it was revealed that Bird reportedly got into a bar room brawl during the Philly series and further injured his shooting hand.)

    The following year the Lakers lost to Houston while the Celtics were victorious in the third of their four consecutive trips to the Finals

    Anyway, since it's slow around here and since I came upon this article, I thought I'd share a little history with my Celtic buddies.....sorry if this was a little long.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    Unfortunetely injuries are part of the game..but this does bring back some good memories...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    well, it got worse two years later.....funny, I still have all of the old newspapers I saved from that era....I leafed through a few today....talk about memories!!
     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from edag. Show edag's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    Hey Duke -- I have all of those games on tape.  Let me know if you are interested.
     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickFaldo. Show NickFaldo's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    In Response to Re: Looking Back at 1984/85:
    That's what I keep saying, Larry Bird does not make excuses. Banner 18 was within reach in 2010, unfortunately KG couldn't rise to the occasion. I love KG, Ray, and Paul, unfortunately they're just not on the same level with our old Big 3. 
    Posted by Fiercest34


    One year Bird seemed to be blaming Cedric Cornbread while staying mum about damaging his own hand in a bar fight. I can track down the Shaughnessy column if you like.

    The C's were fortunate to win three titles. It should have been only two. We lucked out that the Lakers are often mediocre when it really counts. I concede they are the best 2nd place team in NBA history.

    Philly was tough, and so were the Lakers. We were fortunate to get past Philly for that first Bird title.

    As for KG, I don't think it's his fault his knee got busted. That's a big what if. We would have probably three-peated if he didn't get hurt, maybe a four-peat. We were that dominant. Unfortunately Pierce only really delivered the title year and Ray's been a mixed bag in the playoffs.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickFaldo. Show NickFaldo's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    This current team isn't even on the level of the Heinsohn coached teams. The 2008 team probably would have beaten either of those, but two versus one ring is much better. I'll hand it to the Lakers. They beat us in the 80's, and they beat us recently. However, because of their mediocrity in NBA finals, and since we lead in titles, the Celtics are the greatest of all time. It's subject to change, but it kind of looks like both teams are on the downslide.

    Even if the Lakers somehow get Superman, they will at that point probably be no better than Orlando of today. The Celtics also have a lot of work to do to return to Titletown. This will sound like blasphemy, but the C's should unload all of the Big Three. I kind of mean Pierce, my favorite, because he's almost at the point of no return to greatness. Bloated Ray and KG contracts are done after this season. Barkley's correct that basketball players get old and die. That's where Paul and Kobe are headed. Ray and KG might already be there.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    Thanks edag....I no longer have my VCR since DVD came on board.....you know, I can almost replay all of those games in my head.....seems like just yesterday....
     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    In Response to Re: Looking Back at 1984/85:
    That's what I keep saying, Larry Bird does not make excuses. Banner 18 was within reach in 2010, unfortunately KG couldn't rise to the occasion. I love KG, Ray, and Paul, unfortunately they're just not on the same level with our old Big 3. 
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Well Fierce thats a post that facts can solve real quick:-) Lets use stats, PER is the best way to see just how well a player is playing.

    I see little difference between reg season 2010 KG vs. his less impressive finals and regular season 1985 Bird and his less impressive finals.... unless you want to say Bird fell off even more...

    You had a 28 year old Bird with minor pesky injuries having a series with a PER of 21, after an MVP season w/ a PER of 26.5.

    So Bird went down by 5.5 PER.... meanwhile we EXPECT 28 year old Bird to be better than 34 year old Kevin Garnett.... I'm just comparing the drop, not the talent. At 28 KG had a PER of 28.2 (22.4p-13.5r-5.7a-1.7b-1.5s) so he was essentially better than Bird at that age.

    KG had a reg season of 19.4 PER, after major knee surgery over the summer, and in the finals his PER was 17.6. So he went down by less than 2 points, and didn't make a dang excuse either.

    YAWN.

    I'd take our current big 3 in their primes over the old big 3. Only we only had 1 season of the new guys at their peak powers still and almost a decade of the old ones.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    Obviously some people never were able to see the original "Big Three" because saying the contemporary trio "might be better" is absurd.  Watch LB toying with whole teams and then letting/helping Parish and McHale do their damage was incredible theater and a joy to watch.  Adding to the mix was DJ who was a shut-down defender of the first order who also could give you a respectable point total.  Unfortunately I always hated Ainge as a player for his ability to help both teams simultaneously, but Max, until his knee injury (that Red thought was healing too slowly due to a lack of desire), was someone for whom the opponents had no answer because he was  just too "slithery".  I'd take the 80's guys and those Celtics teams any day, as much as I respect the current core. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheTruthsays. Show TheTruthsays's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    Hard to compare the 2 Big 3's.  First, the Big 3 of the 80's played for the Celtics in their prime. Our current Big3 never played together in their prime. No way to compare.

    Bird is head & shoulders over any of the players. What he did with the injury to his back is sick. Larry didnt have too many off games in the playoffs. He struggled some against Cooper but always did the other things and always showed up in the 4th quarter.

    Can you say that about KG or Ray? No. Only Pierce has that history of the current Big 3. KG disappears too often. Ray is hit or miss with his shots and his playoff record has way too many games that he didnt hit the side of the barn.

    McHale & Chief were also clutch players in the playoffs.

    The 80's group just so good, not fair to compare to the current group.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    i'll take the original big 3 over our current group. but did the originals not lie down like dogs and quit on fitch in '83 against milwaukee? yeah, i think they did - getting swept in conference semifinals to a bucks team that was in turn easily eliminated by the sixers. the originals made up for things the following spring, but their quitting on fitch in '83 was not cool. i doubt the current edition would pull such crap on doc or any coach, regardless of circumstances. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    In Response to Re: Looking Back at 1984/85:
    Thanks edag....I no longer have my VCR since DVD came on board.....you know, I can almost replay all of those games in my head.....seems like just yesterday....
    Posted by Duke4


    Duke

      I got 4 Celtics games of the 60's from Edag-- all on dvd.
    Seems
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85


      All 6 played on super teams.  Way to close to call.

    Seems 

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    Oh wow.....games from the '60's on DVD.....I like it!!!!  .....how much do they cost?

    Oh, and to BP........you are right on the mark buddy....that team hated Fitch at that point (although Bird liked him from what I gathr)....they laid one huge egg which was a black eye on the team that year....but even if they won I think they would've been underdogs to Moses & Co. that year.....
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from edag. Show edag's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    In Response to Re: Looking Back at 1984/85:
    Thanks edag....I no longer have my VCR since DVD came on board.....you know, I can almost replay all of those games in my head.....seems like just yesterday....
    Posted by Duke4


    I have them all on dvd if you are interested......
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptChris. Show CaptChris's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    Having seen them all since the 1949 Celtics, there is no comparison.  Not is skill and in postions.  The original Big "3" was the best Front Court ever assembled.  They had size  --  passing ability  --  could Rebound with the Best.  The 1986 Big "3"  averaged 27.4 Rebounds for the season.  The 2008 Big "3" averaged 18 rebounds.

    The 80's guys had to play when the game was physical.  hand-checking was allowed and there was a no 3 second "D" rule in play.  So it was much harder to get to the hole.  The middle was blocked, and you were "detained", and shoved in a different direction.  If you went to the hole you got mauled.  In the play-offs  --  No Bunnies allowed!  Rondo would have ended up in the 6 row of the seats.

    The current "No Touch" basketball would have seen Michael Jordon score 50 Pts. a game.  The "cross-over" would disappear.  You would have to get through not around your defender.  Much tougher game.  Dwayne Wade and friends would get creamed going to the hole.

    Today's Flagrent Fouls are a laugh.  Remember when McHale let Rambis run into his fore-arm on the fast break?  Kevin would have been arrested and sentenced to 20 years in this polically correct NBA. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    edag.......yes, I am very interested!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from edag. Show edag's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    In Response to Re: Looking Back at 1984/85:
    edag.......yes, I am very interested!!!
    Posted by Duke4


    Hi Duke --I sent you a personel message......
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from phxvlsoxfan. Show phxvlsoxfan's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    Wow, thanks for bringing back some pleasant (81, 84 and 86) and unpleasant (85 and 87) memories of what was a true obsession for me - The Larry Bird era.  Its true that comparing those teams with the current group is difficult, but for me the difference was the aura of that 80's group.  They rarely went more than 8 deep yet they went out and expected to win every night.  They motivated each other (McHale goes for 56 so Bird gets 60 a few games later) and took full advantage of everyone's strengths (even purely one dimensional shooters like Wedman and Sichting played key roles).  Who can forget the Bird - 'Nique shootout in the playoffs.  Wow, they were great days.

    The current Big 3 would have been fun to watch in their primes, but to me only KG falls into the same elite category as Larry, Kevin and Chief.  Allen is mainly a shooter and Pierce is a scorer - neither really have the complete game to be among the true elite.  I appreciate them getting together to bring banner 17 to the franchise, and with some luck and health maybe they could have had another one.  But with some luck and health, and if a certain Terp didn't OD on coke, there could have been another 3 or 4 titles in the 80's too.

    Showing my age, no discussion of greatest teams can be complete without including the Russell era C's.  No question that was the most successful 10 year run in the history of sports.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Looking Back at 1984/85

    In Response to Re: Looking Back at 1984/85:
    In Response to Re: Looking Back at 1984/85 : rame, maybe Pierce and Ray are better than Parish and McHale but I don't think KG is on the same level with Larry Bird. Bird is a 3-time MVP with 3 rings. Maybe if KG and the Celtics beat the Lakers in the 2010 Finals you could make a case that the current Big 3 is as good as the old Big 3. But like I said, Game 7 of the 2010 Finals was basically a KG vs. Pau Gasol battle. KG couldn't get it done, injured or not. The only thing I don't like about KG's game is he has a tendency to disappear in the 4th qtr. That's why Pierce is the Celtics' closer.
    Posted by Fiercest34

    I only said they were as good or better in their primes, of which we saw 1 year.

    And that bird's '85 drop was worse than KG's '10. But neither made an excuse for it. (barroom brawl fairly irresponsible tho).

    If I was to start an NBA team w/ those guys all rookies I'd pick them in this order:

    1. Bird
    2. KG
    3. McHale
    4. Ray
    5. Pierce
    6. Parish

    It is hard tho.

    Bird had 3 MVP's to KG's 1... yet KG's 3 year span over the SAME ages (when he won his only MVP in '04) his PER was 29.4 - 28.2 - 26.8. Bird was 24.2 -26.5 - 25.6. They both led the league 2 of those 3 years. Only KG had just one good team (1 MVP) and Bird had DJ, Danny, Robert and Kevin the entire time.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share