Looks Like It's A Deal

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 21st. Show 21st's posts

    Looks Like It's A Deal

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7217801/nba-lockout-nba-players-union-conclude-thursday-deal

    What a lot of us don't get is why the union wants to wait 3 days to accept or reject the offer. My guess is the players are trying to save face by playing hard to get. You know they want it, but they don't want you to think they're desperate.

    Maybe the players don't want to give us the impression that in this lockout the players caved, fell face first on the ground.

    Like this guy.
       

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    Hey, man, that says NO deal.  And upon reading it, it says the players will NOT accept the offer.................you scared me there for a minute!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    I think 21st is right on this one.  At least I hope so.  The players want to play.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    I don't

    http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

    http://espn.go.com/nba/

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216483/One_Players_Side_Source_Expects_Offer_To_Be_Rejected

    Sorry!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    I said I hope he is right.  The players if they do not settle will lose more everyday they don't settle you I am sure already know that.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    In Response to Re: Looks Like It's A Deal:
    [QUOTE]I think 21st is right on this one.  At least I hope so.  The players want to play.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    You said AT LEAST I hope so!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    I just want basketball in some professional form. Start a new league. Bill Simmons wrote an article a few weeks back about how it could work. I'm not sure any start-up could have as many teams as he proposes, and I also disagree about placing clubs only in non-NBA cities, but I'd be open to bids from any municipality, small or large. If a billionaire wants to own a team in the new league, go for it.

    I'd start out with 10 teams, 15 players per team, 36-game regular season schedule to really make each game count. The top 6 teams advance to the playoffs, with the 1 and 2 seeds receiving first-round byes. Round 1 is Best of 3. Round 2 is Best of 5. The Finals are Best of 7. No conference distinctions for playoff seeding. Every team plays every other team the same number of times (4 each, 2 home, 2 away,) against the 9 opponents.

    Due to their sheer size, New York, Chicago and Los Angeles would each have one team. The other 7 spots are open for bidding among any other locale. If Omaha wants a team, and has the means to field one, I'm fine with it. As a Celtics fan, I would hope that Boston would get a team but the economics would have to work out. Maybe John Henry would want a team, as part of his ever-expanding portfolio.

    Spend December-February drawing up a collective barganing agreement, negotiating television rights, figuring out where to place the teams, and in designing and marketing. Spend March on free agency and training camp. Start the 36-game inaugural season right after March Madness. The regular season would run in April, May and June. The playoffs would be in July. This would allow the players to supplement their incomes by also playing in some of the overaseas leagues, where the seasons run October through March. As with international soccer, players could be loaned back and forth between foreign leagues to accommodate season overlaps.

    Eventually, I would allow the nascent league to expand slightly, to maybe 16 teams and a 45 game schedule (15 opponents times 3 games each, with the odd game alternating between home/away every other year).

    After 16 teams, all expansion franchises (up to 16) would be relegated to a European-style Second Division, with the opportunity to move up based on the previous year's standings. That way, in theory, there could be 100 teams in X number of divisions, but the First Division product would never be diluted.

    I would only promote and relegate one team each year. The Second Division champion would move up to the First Division and the First Division team with the worst record would move down to the Second Division. If eventually there's a Third Division, the system would work the same way: Third Division champion moves up to the Second Division, worst record in the Second Division moves down to the Third Division. It would be possible for a random Third Division team in Bismarck, North Dakota, to work its way up to the First Division in as little as two years, keeping the hope alive for fans in minor league markets everywhere.

    I believe that such a league would be very successful because the product would be a lot better (only 10 teams to start, up to 16 eventually, more starpower on each team) and because the relegation system would bring excitement to cities big and small. A Juneau-Los Angeles Finals would be theoretically possible. Also, TV ratings would be higher because like the NFL each game would truly count in a shorter season.

    Start-up costs for the new league, with respect to salaries, could be kept low in return for players receiving the lionshare of BRI. A 65-35 split in favor of the players would be very reasonable at the outset because the players wouldn't be making nearly as much as they do now in the more established NBA. Their salaries would primarily come from TV contracts, which realistically won't be as lucrative due to the risks inherent to any new venture. The players would still support the new league, however, because at least the institutional framework would be more to their liking and because playing in an alternative league would scare the NBA into capitulating. These guys want to play somewhere and a league such as the one I'm proposing would probably pay most of them better than the leagues in Europe and Asia. A lot of players prefer to play in the U.S than abroad, which would be a second factor in favor of this league.

    The key to making this work would be the national and regional TV networks. ABC/ESPN and TNT/TBS are tied into contracts with the NBA, but NBC/Versus, CBS and FOX could all bid, along with some other random national network (UPN? BET?) looking to expand its footprint. Regionally, just to use Boston as an example, Comcast New England is locked into a deal with the Celtics, but NESN would be available. Smaller regional channels like NECN and WSBK could enter into the bidding as well.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    In Response to Re: Looks Like It's A Deal:
    [QUOTE]I just want basketball in some professional form. Start a new league. Bill Simmons wrote an article a few weeks back about how it could work. I'm not sure any start-up could have as many teams as he proposes, and I also disagree about placing clubs only in non-NBA cities, but I'd be open to bids from any municipality, small or large. If a billionaire wants to own a team in the new league, go for it. I'd start out with 10 teams, 15 players per team, 36-game regular season schedule to really make each game count. The top 6 teams advance to the playoffs, with the 1 and 2 seeds receiving first-round byes. Round 1 is Best of 3. Round 2 is Best of 5. The Finals are Best of 7. No conference distinctions for playoff seeding. Every team plays every other team the same number of times (4 each, 2 home, 2 away,) against the 9 opponents. Due to their sheer size, New York, Chicago and Los Angeles would each have one team. The other 7 spots are open for bidding among any other locale. If Omaha wants a team, and has the means to field one, I'm fine with it. As a Celtics fan, I would hope that Boston would get a team but the economics would have to work out. Maybe John Henry would want a team, as part of his ever-expanding portfolio. Spend December-February drawing up a collective barganing agreement, negotiating television rights, figuring out where to place the teams, and in designing and marketing. Spend March on free agency and training camp. Start the 36-game inaugural season right after March Madness. The regular season would run in April, May and June. The playoffs would be in July. This would allow the players to supplement their incomes by also playing in some of the overaseas leagues, where the seasons run October through March. As with international soccer, players could be loaned back and forth between foreign leagues to accommodate season overlaps. Eventually, I would allow the nascent league to expand slightly, to maybe 16 teams and a 45 game schedule (15 opponents times 3 games each, with the odd game alternating between home/away every other year). After 16 teams, all expansion franchises (up to 16) would be relegated to a European-style Second Division, with the opportunity to move up based on the previous year's standings. That way, in theory, there could be 100 teams in X number of divisions, but the First Division product would never be diluted. I would only promote and relegate one team each year. The Second Division champion would move up to the First Division and the First Division team with the worst record would move down to the Second Division. If eventually there's a Third Division, the system would work the same way: Third Division champion moves up to the Second Division, worst record in the Second Division moves down to the Third Division. It would be possible for a random Third Division team in Bismarck, North Dakota, to work its way up to the First Division in as little as two years, keeping the hope alive for fans in minor league markets everywhere. I believe that such a league would be very successful because the product would be a lot better (only 10 teams to start, up to 16 eventually, more starpower on each team) and because the relegation system would bring excitement to cities big and small. A Juneau-Los Angeles Finals would be theoretically possible. Also, TV ratings would be higher because like the NFL each game would truly count in a shorter season. Start-up costs for the new league, with respect to salaries, could be kept low in return for players receiving the lionshare of BRI. A 65-35 split in favor of the players would be very reasonable at the outset because the players wouldn't be making nearly as much as they do now in the more established NBA. Their salaries would primarily come from TV contracts, which realistically won't be as lucrative due to the risks inherent to any new venture. The players would still support the new league, however, because at least the institutional framework would be more to their liking and because playing in an alternative league would scare the NBA into capitulating. These guys want to play somewhere and a league such as the one I'm proposing would probably pay most of them better than the leagues in Europe and Asia. A lot of players prefer to play in the U.S than abroad, which would be a second factor in favor of this league. The key to making this work would be the national and regional TV networks. ABC/ESPN and TNT/TBS are tied into contracts with the NBA, but NBC/Versus, CBS and FOX could all bid, along with some other random national network (UPN? BET?) looking to expand its footprint. Regionally, just to use Boston as an example, Comcast New England is locked into a deal with the Celtics, but NESN would be available. Smaller regional channels like NECN and WSBK could enter into the bidding as well.
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]

    Players aren't smart enough to pull that off - you still need owners!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    Red - its not about "smarts".  Its about business experience.  Its about having the  time to worry about running a league rather than worrying about improving your basketball abilities and how to run plays.  Its about spending time negotiating with arena owners and TV contracts and ownership percentages and all of the things that players don't have the experience to worry about.   Magic and Michael and Larry may have the time to be smart about running a basketball businesses but not an existing player. Maybe there are some smart guys in the league who can pull it off and maybe there aren't.......but there certainly aren't any of them with the time or experience.
     
    But, that's why we have an exiting league, right?  Why re-invent the wheel?   They (players and owners) should just fix the one we have and have some basketball this year!.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    In Response to Re: Looks Like It's A Deal:
    [QUOTE]Red - its not about "smarts".  Its about business experience.  Its about having the  time to worry about running a league rather than worrying about improving your basketball abilities and how to run plays.  Its about spending time negotiating with arena owners and TV contracts and ownership percentages and all of the things that players don't have the experience to worry about.   Magic and Michael and Larry may have the time to be smart about running a basketball businesses but not an existing player. Maybe there are some smart guys in the league who can pull it off and maybe there aren't.......but there certainly aren't any of them with the time or experience.   But, that's why we have an exiting league, right?  Why re-invent the wheel?   They (players and owners) should just fix the one we have and have some basketball this year!.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]


    I was responding to another poster who said they should just start their own league...........and I said I thought it was a ridiculous idea.....you need to follow the flow of the thread, man, I KNOW they won't do that!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    I followed the thread, Red!!.  You said they won't start their own league because they aren't "smart" enough.  I'm teling you it isn't about how smart they are but its the other reasons.

    Try following my comments.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    In Response to Re: Looks Like It's A Deal:
    [QUOTE]I followed the thread, Red!!.  You said they won't start their own league because they aren't "smart" enough.  I'm teling you it isn't about how smart they are but its the other reasons. Try following my comments.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]


    Isn't "they don't have enough business acumen" the same thing as "they are not smart enough?"
    They also don't have the capital, savvy, lawyers AND intelligence to form their own league......................
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    No, Red - "not enough business Acumen" is about experience, not smarts.  You probably don't know how to design a computer chip or to reprogram one, but I bet its not because you aren't smart enough.  You just don't have the experience or training.....enough though you're proabably smart enough if you had the training.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    Our course, my example is a bad one if you are a computer chip designer, my friend!  If that's the case, I have to develop a different exampleCool
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    In Response to Re: Looks Like It's A Deal:
    [QUOTE]No, Red - "not enough business Acumen" is about experience, not smarts.  You probably don't know how to design a computer chip or to reprogram one, but I bet its not because you aren't smart enough.  You just don't have the experience or training.....enough though you're proabably smart enough if you had the training.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Semantics!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    OK.  Maybe we're saying the same thing. 
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    In Response to Re: Looks Like It's A Deal:
    [QUOTE]It better be a deal. Otherwise would mean some of these NBA players will end up working in some plantation somewhere out there. Ha Ha
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]


    It will be a deal.  When it's 53-47 for owners, with salary roll backs, amnesty clauses, max contracts, limited player movements, the D-League "thing" (brilliant), a hard cap and no sign and trades.
    Players and their agents brought this on themselves.  Stern said yesterday, if they decertify, that will probably cancel the season.

    And this is what I really don't get - after Stern said the owners are DONE negotiating, that this is it, that the offer better be presented to the players, Hunter sent a counter-offer to the league with "amendments" to the owners proposal.
    None of this is good -  what part of "take it or leave it" does Billy Hunter have a problem with?  He KNOWS the players won't take it - and he will be blamed!
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    Stern says the greedy agents are trying to skuttle the possibility of agreement because the agents want to make more money.  

    a. Of course they are - its their job to make more money for themselves AND their clients - so I agree the agents are being greedy and advising against the deal
    b. But, the owners are also greedy in that they are so close to an agreement but won't give up 1% (give a legit 51% BRI instead of the 50% they offer)

    Two greedy parties who can't learn to negotiate fairly and reach a reasonable compromise - so the fans lose out.

    Thoughts about the agents?


     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    In Response to Re: Looks Like It's A Deal:
    [QUOTE]Stern says the greedy agents are trying to skuttle the possibility of agreement because the agents want to make more money.   a. Of course they are - its their job to make more money for themselves AND their clients - so I agree the agents are being greedy and advising against the deal b. But, the owners are also greedy in that they are so close to an agreement but won't give up 1% (give a legit 51% BRI instead of the 50% they offer) Two greedy parties who can't learn to negotiate fairly and reach a reasonable compromise - so the fans lose out. Thoughts about the agents?
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    7% right off the top. 'Nuff said.

    Pud
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    Agents will have less say if the current CBA is passed.  THAT is what the problem is.  They will still get their cut, but they won't get to advise as much, as there won't be much to advise.

    For the record, it is my humble opinion (and only mine that I can see) that 52, 51, 50% of BRI is not what the owners are focusing on - it is all decoy and misdirection to see how low the players will go.
    The BRI is about sharing the profits - the "system" is about cutting expenses.  I think if the owners could get 100% of a new system, they would give the players 50 - 52% of BRI.  That is just my opinon, and I have no documentation to support it.  The players care more about BRI, the owners about the system - and WHEN the sytem issues are fixed (Hunter said there are about 30 to 40 more to fix), THEN they will focus on BRI - brilliant job by the owners!!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Looks Like It's A Deal

    Red - its not just your opinion.  I, too, think the owners are as focused (or more) on the "system" as they are BRI split.  I believe the two issues are very very linked, however.  The more BRI the players get, the more difficult it is to fix the system issues.  

    But, you're right - I think the owners want system issues changed to help them restrict big mistakes, bidding wars, etc.
     
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