Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    In Response to Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste:
    Jay, I understand the motivation to get a back up player for Pierce, and it was necessary. What Ainge did, however, was unprecidented in NBA history. No one has ever changed a starting five that was expected by many, to be the leading contender for the NBA championship. ... and he did it for a back up player for Pierce, and third string center? Corry Brewer, a very good defensive specialist, was available and I doubt that the Celtics would have had to blow up the starting five of the 2008 championship team to get him. Yes Green and Krystic started for the Thunder, but we did not need starters, we needed back ups. Besides, both are now failing miserably as back ups.  Lets hope they come around as the play-offs continue. It is still possible. They are still learning to play together in a play-off atmosphere. ... and if anyone can make it work, it will be Doc.
    Posted by Jump-ball-overtime


    I agree with you and have posted similar thoughts many times.  It was necessary to get a backup for Marquis, but a bad move to trade a starter for a backup.  It should have been possible for Ainge to obtain a backup for Pierce by making a trade with some of the players that were traded, (nate, Luke, Semih, etc.), for a backup and not trading Perk. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    In Response to Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste:
    playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball, almost as much as nba is different from college. jeff green' s stats looked great in regular season, but Doc knows the guy basically scks when the intensity gets ramped up, same for kristc. how bizarre that green, murphy, kristic, all these guys ainge went out and got dont even play much. we are going with Big 4 and no help.
    Posted by bramrok




    I think people need to realize when you are the one looking to do a trade, you have to take whatever teams are willing to offer, and the fact is, you cant get something for nothing.  None of our bench were assets except for baby, and they needed to keep one constant on the bench.

    I'm sure maybe they had other people on the radar, but they ended up w/ Green and Kristic.  The playoff stats for green last year can be misleading.

    Laker series

    Game 1 - 42  minutes and went 4-12...0-6 from 3

    Game 2 - 41 minutes and went 2-11

    Game 3 - only 28 minutes and was 3-8 on fg's

    game 4 - 38 minutes and went 5-17

    game 5 - 33 minutes and was 3-10

    game 6 (the elimanation game) was his best  with 42 minutes and 6-12 fg's


    now here is the catch, he was playing PF and matched up with Pau Gasol, which is an extreme mismatch.  So Danny probably thought playing the 3 here , he would play much better....You cant predict how a  player will perform in the playoffs.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bird-to-DJ. Show Bird-to-DJ's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    All these "Ainge stinks and with Perk we were (basically) guaranteed banner #18 and now we can't win b/c of the trade" threads are maddening.  Let's look back a bit at the absolute need for wing depth after Quis' injury... only two wing players of significance moved at/after the deadling - Wallce went to Portland and we got Jeff Green.  I don't believe we had any shot at Wallace and to get something you have to give something... 

    If we were having to live right now with Pavlovic and Wafer off the bench, all these posts would be screaming about having not filled that wing hole and how we will run PP & RA into the ground b/c we don't have suitable & quality depth.  When Daniels went down, that became the primary need.  The calculated cost was Perk - he or BBD were the only realistic trade chips.  This was not done for "next year", IMO DA firmly believed our wing depth (or total lack thereof) was a bigger concern to winning #18 than the ability to replicate Perk's defense... plus, please don't forget that Perk was then injured with an uncertain return.  For Perk (I discount Nate, particularly with Delonte's return) who OKC traded for for the future, we fixed our wing depth issue, added Kristic (significant upgrade over Semih who was basically shut down for the season in Cleveland) to keep interior depth and added a draft pick to boot. 

    Did we downgrade somewhat in the interior.  If JON continues to play like he has then the answer may well be marginally if at all.  Perk was never a great rebounder.  The danger was that we disturbed the chemistry... a very real concern.  Eventually that falls onto Doc and 3 future HOF's to handle and adjust to.  I was a Perk fan, but the trade IMO was based on immeidate needs to improve the potential for #18... but all change comes with a risk. As yourself this - would you rather go through the playoffs with Perk/JON/Pavlovic or JON/Green/Kristic; at the time of the trade Shaq was expected to return (a calcualted risk) but is now just "icing" if he ever plays now.  Not making the trade also carried significant risks which no one discusses in these threads.  I find that very interesting.

    Also, anyone notice that while Green may not be scoring 15/game and setting the world on fire at the moment, he still remains a significant improvement over the situation we were at the time - one which most here were calling dire...  Lastly, Perk would not have been guarding Amare in game 1 and would have had a minimal impact on Carmelo's 42 in game 2.  Our current issue is not with Perk and is not really interior defense (Knicks are avg 89.5 for the first 2)... it is about putting 95+ on the board offensively with any consistently... It is more our offense than our defense that has been and continues to be the primary concern... And the offensive glass was more of a rotation off of perimter penetration and a wing issue (RA & PP need to reound harder) than a "if we only had Perk" in the middle solution.

    We have a ways to go, and if we don't raise #18, the trade will always look quesitonable as it was a gamble.  But keep in mind, not making that trade carried with it risks that I suspect DA felt were greater (partuicularly with Perk's own injury problems) than making the move - the fact that it might help the C's in teh future was simply an added benefit and not a primary driver, IMHO.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    Thank You Bird to DJ.  Atleast some people get it..great post


    also people keep saying we traded a starter for a backup, but Green and Kristic were both starters..the fact they come off the bench here just speaks to us having a better team to start with.  Perk isnt even a starter if Shaq stays healthy, so please if all things are equal, Perk is maybe the 2nd or 3rd center. 

    It was a necessary move as in the east you have Lebron and Melo and judging by the way JON shut down Melo in the paint but Melo torched us with outside shots, I dont see where Perk would have helped with that....but put Wafer on Lebron or Melo for 15 minutes a game( which is what happens if you dont make the trade)  see how you like those results....i saw the Heat game where Wafer tried to check Lebron, it was very UGLY..
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    Bird, you overstate our case, to your own advantage.

    Guaranteed?

    Players of significance, for as back up player? We only needed a backup.

    The reason the Cs were considered by many, before the trade, as the top contender for the championship, was team defense that they played. Perk was a part of that in previous years, and Shaq was a part of it this year.
     
    Anyway you look at it, it was a big gamble.

    These guys, may still turn things around as you say, and most of them, especially the starting five, look like they will figure it out. Shaq may even play against the Knicks in NY.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bird-to-DJ. Show Bird-to-DJ's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    Jump-ball,

    I can not think of anyone else that moved at the deadline or after that would have fixed our problem... and once Quis got hurt, it was showing itself to be a potentially massive problem in the play-offs.  If you can think of a player of significance that would have filled that hole (Pavlovic & Wafer would not IMO), then I might rethink... but I don't think I overstated.  Those are the two wing players in the playoffs that are difference makers who changed prior to or at the deadline.  We had a potentially cahmpioship-threatening problem and to address that requried taking on risk elsewhere.  I find it interesting that there is little/no discussion of the risks of having done nothing...as that was the other option, unless you can point to the alternative that I am missing.

    The C's hall mark was and remains defense.  Perk was a big part of the attitude, but we haven't fallen off a cliff since he left.  When we have struggled this year, it has been more of an offensive problem (as was game 7) than a defensive problem.  Are we worse off defensively... without Shaq, to a degree yes.  Are we better everywhere else... yes.  Did the chemistry take a hit... yes.  Should three HOFs be able to adjust... Absolutely.

    If we can't get more consistency on offense... then the trade will end up being very questionable as we got "worse" to some degree in what we did best.  If we can find that offensive consistency, everything will be fine.  And, IMHO, if we don't find it on the offensive end, it wouldn't have mattered if we had kept Perk, we still would have fallen short.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulbrr7. Show paulbrr7's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    In Response to Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste:
    Jump-ball, I can not think of anyone else that moved at the deadline or after that would have fixed our problem... and once Quis got hurt, it was showing itself to be a potentially massive problem in the play-offs.  If you can think of a player of significance that would have filled that hole (Pavlovic & Wafer would not IMO), then I might rethink... but I don't think I overstated.  Those are the two wing players in the playoffs that are difference makers who changed prior to or at the deadline.  We had a potentially cahmpioship-threatening problem and to address that requried taking on risk elsewhere.  I find it interesting that there is little/no discussion of the risks of having done nothing...as that was the other option, unless you can point to the alternative that I am missing. The C's hall mark was and remains defense.  Perk was a big part of the attitude, but we haven't fallen off a cliff since he left.  When we have struggled this year, it has been more of an offensive problem (as was game 7) than a defensive problem.  Are we worse off defensively... without Shaq, to a degree yes.  Are we better everywhere else... yes.  Did the chemistry take a hit... yes.  Should three HOFs be able to adjust... Absolutely. If we can't get more consistency on offense... then the trade will end up being very questionable as we got "worse" to some degree in what we did best.  If we can find that offensive consistency, everything will be fine.  And, IMHO, if we don't find it on the offensive end, it wouldn't have mattered if we had kept Perk, we still would have fallen short.
    Posted by Bird-to-DJ


    The offense of the second unit will only improve if Doc changes his approach and utilizes them to their strengths. The bench as constituted is made for running the floor and looking for the open shot, not walking it up and getting into Doc's half court offense.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    Lets see, with an injured Shaq, Quis, West and robinson, who would have backed up PP and Ray Allen?

    BBD can only do so much, Ray and PP would have had no legitimate backup behind them for the playoffs. We all saw what happened last year when RA and PP played too many minutes, crash and burn in the finals is what happened.

    You can hate on Green and Krystic all you want, but realize that without the trade, we would have had exactly who backing up Pierce and Allen? exactly, garbage.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    Corry Brewer
     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from beemrdon52. Show beemrdon52's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    FIRE AINGE!!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bird-to-DJ. Show Bird-to-DJ's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste


    Corey Brewer.  Not on the same level as Wallace and Green but ok, he's not a scrub; good defender, virtually no offensive skills... sort of a taller but less offensive Tony Allen.  That said, we would have gotten him how... and please don't say Nate head up...?  He was part of a deal that netted the Wolves Anthony Randolph and a draft pick, I think...
     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MinnesotaCelticsFan. Show MinnesotaCelticsFan's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    Sorry but the bench suks.

    Green played OK but over all they suked.
     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulbrr7. Show paulbrr7's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    Davis and West are killing the bench right now, not Krstic or Green. Davis must have some interesting pictures of Doc because he is getting way to many minutes for the way he is playing.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Missing Perk & Krstic a waste

    Green was the only one who scored on the bench tonight. can someone check krystic's pulse? I'm worried we have a weekend at bernie's situation going on with the second unit. 
     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share