Need more scoring off the bench

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChiefEddie1028. Show ChiefEddie1028's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench


    P34, I agree with you. And they are not only better, they are much younger, more aggressive, more exciting, and more full of energy.


                                          Time Will Only Tell
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    Let's talk real here. We all talk about how deep we are and how good our bench is but game after game after game we struggle to keep leads. We don't put away teams when we should. I'm not singling out any one player. We lose leads to below .500 teams, we lose leads to above .500 teams.

    Where and when is this great bench everyone proclaims to be great going to put teams away so Doc doesn't have to put Rondo, KG, PP back in the game to keep the lead.

    Remember when the C's had that bench with Sichting, Wedman and Walton they usually increased leads. We need the bench to allow the starters to get the rest we always talk about. We like to talk like we have a great bench but at some point we need to see it. We're winning games but I honestly can't say it's because of the bench.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Icon11. Show Icon11's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    Let's talk real here. We all talk about how deep we are and how good our bench is but game after game after game we struggle to keep leads. We don't put away teams when we should. I'm not singling out any one player. We lose leads to below .500 teams, we lose leads to above .500 teams. Where and when is this great bench everyone proclaims to be great going to put teams away so Doc doesn't have to put Rondo, KG, PP back in the game to keep the lead. Remember when the C's had that bench with Sichting, Wedman and Walton they usually increased leads. We need the bench to allow the starters to get the rest we always talk about. We like to talk like we have a great bench but at some point we need to see it. We're winning games but I honestly can't say it's because of the bench.
    Posted by BiasLewis

    You aren't listening man.  Shaq and West were both going to be bench players.  If perk starts the Celtics are going to have Shaq and West joining BBD and Quis and Nate off the bench. That is going to solve the problem you are worried about.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    None of us have seen it to this point so we don't know what's going to work and what isn't going to work. I'm not saying our bench is horrible but we need to see them hold some leads.

    Just because a person has a question about an aspect of the team doesn't mean it's a all that bad.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChiefEddie1028. Show ChiefEddie1028's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench


    BiasLewis, are you talking about the same bench that we are talking about? Are you really serious or you just want to spark an argument?

    How many time have our bench bailed us out this season?

    How many times have our bench had a good lead, and only for the starters to blow it?

    How many times have the starters started so sluggishly and Doc had to insert the bench to give the team some energy?

    I could go on and on and on and on.

    If you don't know we have the best bench, you are not watching the Celtics.

                      
                                         Time Will Only Tell
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    We have a decent bench not a great bench. A great bench is the Bad Boys, the 86 Celtics, the 80s Lakers.

    Now if we have a great bench why have we lost to the teams we've lost too? Why were those games even close when playing below .500 teams?

    Do we have the best bench in the league? Yes on paper!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChiefEddie1028. Show ChiefEddie1028's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench


    Can you name any team in the league that six of their bench players could be starters on most playoffs teams?

    The Celtics have at least six bench players who could start in most playoff caliber teams.

    And these are the players: BBD, DWest, Shaq, Quis, Nate, and JON. 

    If this is not a great bench, how do you define "great."


                                            Time Will Only Tell
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    LOL! Again that's on paper. Who is starting on what playoff team of that bunch?? Where is Quis starting...in SA, Orlando, OKC? Where is Nate starting...in LA, Utah, Miami? Where is BBD starting...in Milw, Chi, Atl??

    I'm not hating our bench but when you put stuff out there you have to back it up.

    If they could start on other teams I will ask again. Why is it that we struggle to put teams away so the starters can get more rest??
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChiefEddie1028. Show ChiefEddie1028's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench


    Bias, maybe this will help you. Could you please fill in the answer sheet. 

    An injury-depleted team that has 40% of their starting line-up injured but still  managed to have a 14 game winning streak and continued to be on top of their conference even as we speak. 

    Question:  How and why could that happen in the NBA?

    Answer: ----------------------

    Please fill in the answer, Bias.  The answer is very simple, it's just a word.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    BiasLewis, are you talking about the same bench that we are talking about? Are you really serious or you just want to spark an argument? How many time have our bench bailed us out this season? How many times have our bench had a good lead, and only for the starters to blow it? How many times have the starters started so sluggishly and Doc had to insert the bench to give the team some energy? I could go on and on and on and on. If you don't know we have the best bench, you are not watching the Celtics.                                                         Time Will Only Tell
    Posted by ChiefEddie1028



    Chief, I love our bench (and will explain why below) but to be honest, Bias is right about our bench giving up leads a lot this year and NOT increasing many leads this year.   Our bench has NOT produced a lot of scoring so they aren't delivering as you seem to hint that they are.  They did it well in the first 15 to 20 games but then it declined after our injuries started.

    Here's why I think that happened:

    1. Most of the year, our key bench players have played outside their role (BBD and Nate have had to start and Nate has played out of position at back up PG).
    2. When our bench has had to play so many minutes, some (BBD in particular) have gotten tired and couldn't bring the energy they bring when playing backup minutes, only.
    3. Our bench has NOT had much of a chance to play together.  So far, we've had Delonte out due to suspension and then injury; JON's situation is well documented; as mentioned some of them had to play as starters.
    4. Nate has NOT been shooting well since early in the season (many reasons).

    So, our bench hasn't exactly been playing so great and they have not looked like the best bench in the league.  BUT, I think they will if we can ever get the team healthy (or at least West and Perk healthy, forget JON).   

    Now, come playoff time, the rotation will shorten and the strength of our bench will become more important because those players will be playing more minutes WITH THE STARTERS and they'll do even better. As with the end of the Orlando game yesterday, BBD will be playing with 4 starters or BBD and West will be playing with KG, Ray, and PP and they'll look really good as they don't have to be the best of our 5 players on the floor....they just have to augment 3 allstars.  

    Through all of this, they come through in the 4th qtr (especially BBD).  We don't blow many folks out since our injuries started, but we win by close margins because overall, the Celtics are just a great great team.

    So, in the playoffs, I think folks will see our bench is better than folks like the Heat, Lakers, or Chicago.  We are definitely deeper than those teams.  The only exception to this may be the Spurs. Their top 3 off the bench don't present much of a drop from the top 5 (Bonner, Neal, and George Hill are top notch players if you haven't noticed).

    Just one fan's opinion.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    Bias, maybe this will help you. Could you please fill in the answer sheet.  An injury-depleted team that has 40% of their starting line-up injured but still  managed to have a 14 game winning streak and continued to be on top of their conference even as we speak.  Question :   How and why could that happen in the NBA? Answer: ---------------------- Please fill in the answer, Bias.  The answer is very simple, it's just a word.
    Posted by ChiefEddie1028


    Answer: Big 3

    During the 14 game win streak we had the Big 3 for every game.

    The C's were 6-3 without KG. I don't know what the record was without Rondo (maybe someone has it)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench : Chief, I love our bench (and will explain why below) but to be honest, Bias is right about our bench giving up leads a lot this year and NOT increasing many leads this year.   Our bench has NOT produced a lot of scoring so they aren't delivering as you seem to hint that they are.  They did it well in the first 15 to 20 games but then it declined after our injuries started. Here's why I think that happened: 1. Most of the year, our key bench players have played outside their role (BBD and Nate have had to start and Nate has played out of position at back up PG). 2. When our bench has had to play so many minutes, some (BBD in particular) have gotten tired and couldn't bring the energy they bring when playing backup minutes, only. 3. Our bench has NOT had much of a chance to play together.  So far, we've had Delonte out due to suspension and then injury; JON's situation is well documented; as mentioned some of them had to play as starters. 4. Nate has NOT been shooting well since early in the season (many reasons). So, our bench hasn't exactly been playing so great and they have not looked like the best bench in the league.  BUT, I think they will if we can ever get the team healthy (or at least West and Perk healthy, forget JON).    Now, come playoff time, the rotation will shorten and the strength of our bench will become more important because those players will be playing more minutes WITH THE STARTERS and they'll do even better. As with the end of the Orlando game yesterday, BBD will be playing with 4 starters or BBD and West will be playing with KG, Ray, and PP and they'll look really good as they don't have to be the best of our 5 players on the floor....they just have to augment 3 allstars.   Through all of this, they come through in the 4th qtr (especially BBD).  We don't blow many folks out since our injuries started, but we win by close margins because overall, the Celtics are just a great great team. So, in the playoffs, I think folks will see our bench is better than folks like the Heat, Lakers, or Chicago.  We are definitely deeper than those teams.  The only exception to this may be the Spurs. Their top 3 off the bench don't present much of a drop from the top 5 (Bonner, Neal, and George Hill are top notch players if you haven't noticed). Just one fan's opinion.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life


    Great post!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChiefEddie1028. Show ChiefEddie1028's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench


    Celtsfan4life

    I love your detailed explanation. Your points were well taken and understood. You said it all. I am just against those who think we don't have a good bench, because we do. Even Charles Barkley knows it.  But some people just want a perfect bench, and that's not gonna happen.

                                               Time Will Only Tell

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    I bet BiasLewis would say that the Celtics have a great bench if James Posey was on that bench.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench : I'm not so sure about that. Delonte plays sort of like Daniels. Sort of passive aggressive. If you're looking for scoring from Perk you're looking in the wrong place. He'll provide some interior rebounding and defense and a presence in the lane.
    Posted by BiasLewis


    I am not sure Delonte will make a difference in Nates game.  I said earlier that Nate never hits big shots only shots when we are already rolling in a game.  Again last nite he could not hit. If he would just take shots in the flow it would help but his shots seem to be "I got to get my buckets"
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    BiasLewis, are you talking about the same bench that we are talking about? Are you really serious or you just want to spark an argument?
     How many time have our bench bailed us out this season? A few
     How many times have our bench had a good lead, and only for the starters to blow it? A few  (only 9 losses so we haven't blown too many)
    How many times have the starters started so sluggishly and Doc had to insert the bench to give the team some energy? A few
     I could go on and on and on and on.
     If you don't know we have the best bench, you are not watching the Celtics.                                                         Time Will Only Tell
    Posted by ChiefEddie1028

    Chief, I agree with some of what you say, but I don't think we have the best bench now.  Hopefully later. Of course NONE of us has seen our bench as  we hope it will be later on.  I cold name just as many time the bench as stunk.  But with that said I repeat we haven't seen our bench yet.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    I think the whole thing starts with we need a "real" second string point guard.  We are going on our 4th year without one.  Hard to believe we haven't addressed this problem.  I hope Delonte is that guy but I don't think so. Hope I am wrong.  I would be willing to give Bradley and more to get someone like TJ Ford, Colleson, etc.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    I think the whole thing starts with we need a "real" second string point guard.  We are going on our 4th year without one.  Hard to believe we haven't addressed this problem.  I hope Delonte is that guy but I don't think so. Hope I am wrong.  I would be willing to give Bradley and more to get someone like TJ Ford, Colleson, etc.
    Posted by OneOnOne


    TJ Ford's salary is 8.5m. For the trade to work the Celtics would have to give up a lot just to make the salaries match.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    BiasLewis, We do have bench that can score. If you are looking for players from the bench that scores like the starters, you will never find such players, and that is why they are called "bench players". They are called "bench players" for a reason. They are not called "starters." There is no team in the NBA that has bench players who can match their starters in scoring. So what you get from your bench are nothing but bench players. If they can score, defend, and rebound like the starters, then they will not be bench players anymore. They will be starters in other teams. They are indeed called "bench players." They earn bench player's salary, and they earn bench players minutes, so, they are indeed bench players. You don't expect them to do more than they are doing. If they add more scoring, more defense, and more rebounding to their repertoire, then they will no longer be called "bench players." They will be upgraded to starters position, if not in Boston, in some other teams. I think Celtics have one of the best bench in the league. They have bench who can score and play defense, and that's all we need. A bench of BBD, Nate, Shaq, DWest, Quis, Wafer, Goddy and Erden, is a solid bench in NBA standard. And that is why we are winning.                                    Time Will Only Tell                                  
    Posted by ChiefEddie1028
    John Havlicek is not coming off that bench. Frank Ramsey either. Not even Larry Seigfried. Ihave to agree with you that this is a pretty solid bench.Sure beats the Heaties.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench : TJ Ford's salary is 8.5m. For the trade to work the Celtics would have to give up a lot just to make the salaries match.
    Posted by P34


    Yea I know,  just using him as a example.  He would be great to keep the tempo the same as Rondo.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench : TJ Ford's salary is 8.5m. For the trade to work the Celtics would have to give up a lot just to make the salaries match.
    Posted by P34


    How about Nate and JO. Couldn't JO retire as he wants?  That would be incentive.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench : How about Nate and JO. Couldn't JO retire as he wants?  That would be incentive.
    Posted by OneOnOne


    The trade works. I just don't know if the Pacers want Nate.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench:
    In Response to Re: Need more scoring off the bench : The trade works. I just don't know if the Pacers want Nate.
    Posted by P34


    Sure they would, everyone knows he should be getting more of Rondo's time
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    Can I wait and see the bench in action with the full squad of starters before assessing them? I do wish we had another three point sharpshooter but that's the only flaw I see.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Need more scoring off the bench

    p.s. TJ Ford? You're kidding right? 

    Here's a line from the newswire about Jose Calderon: "After TJ Ford was traded away from the club, Jose really began to shine"  and "TJ Ford, HOW DID YOU MISS PAUL GEORGE ON THE WING?! He was WIDE open for about 5 seconds on the break" or "When someone like Darren Collison or TJ Ford defends him his eyes light up". He plays 20 minutes a game and can't consistently score 6 points. He's a lot like a very poor man's Rondo - if we're gonna do something with the bench let's find someone who gives a different look. Delonte on the point and a deadly three point shooter would be fine.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share