New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

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    New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    This plan envisions a more restrictive upcoming CBA and all teams will need to be making salary adjustments and players will be receiving smaller and shorter contracts over the next 2-3 yrs, so why not get a jump start on the coming chaos.
    Step 1 - Send JON and his expiring/retiring contract to Dallas for B Haywood
    Cuban's pocket will have limitations under the new CBA and they need to resign Butler, Chandler and Barea as well as reduce salary.
    Step 2; Make the folowing trade involving Boston, Memphis and Denver (salaries reflect negoitiated figures within the confines of the trade process and asumes that signed players will carry their existing contract forward)

    Boston receives M. Gasol (7.0), R. Felton (7.5) and W. Chandler (4.0)

    Denver receives R. Rondo (10.0) and J Green (6.0) both thriving under G Karl's system especially Green who is better fitted for Western style offence than East coast. I am assuming Denver resigns JR Smith.

    Memphis receives B. Haywood (7.6), D. Galinari(4.1) and A. Afflalo (4.0) or another player/cash/draft pick in lieu of Afflalo. 
    This trade appears to satisfy trade rules of matching up within 125% and 100K reqmnts.

    Step 3 Celtics resign D. West (1.6), V. Wafer (1.6) and Kristic (2.5)- about 1/2 current salary.

    Step 4 Do a S&T with New Orleans - BBD (4.0) and C. Landry (4.0) ie sending BBD home.

    Step 5 2011 draft - N. Smith (#?), J. Harper (#25), V. Macklin  (#55) or comparables. This means we will have to purchase another 1st round pick which I believe will be available more cheaply than past drafts because of its perceived weakness. You have to acknowledge that you are getting un-developed players but who have skill sets that can contribute, think needed skill sets and potential that may not be available in the vet min FA "crumbs" player stock. Taking a line from the Patriots - "Value picks"
    Possible picks to target (Min #20 (do they need anaother young role player?) OKC #24 (I think they owe us!) or CHI #28 or #30 - again they owe us a favor for T. Tibs.

    Step 6 - Take a Bi-annual MLE flier (if they are still part of the CBA) on J Howard or A Thornton.

    To finalize the rebuild we have 2012 draft and $31.2M coming off the books in 2012, we've just got a jump start on the "new' NBA

    End result is:
    PG R. Felton, D West, A. Bradley (another year to see what he can do)
    SG R. Allen, V. Wafer, N. Smith
    SF Pierce, W. Chandler, Josh Howard
    PF KG, C Landry, J. Harper
    C M. Gasol, Kristic, V. Macklin 

    go Celtics - "championship driven" 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    Ok, good research and well-thought out, I'll bite...

    Step 1 - Send JON and his expiring/retiring contract to Dallas for B Haywood
    Cuban's pocket will have limitations under the new CBA and they need to resign Butler, Chandler and Barea as well as reduce salary.
    Step 2; Make the folowing trade involving Boston, Memphis and Denver (salaries reflect negoitiated figures within the confines of the trade process and asumes that signed players will carry their existing contract forward)

    Jermaine O'Neal played well after his surgery. He unfortunately fractured his wrist in the Miami series but that will be healed. He was a 11.9 PER guy in the playoffs in 22 mins he was getting almost 2 blocks a game and was a  50% FG, 90% FT guy.

    1 year 6.3 million. Turning 33.

    Haywood was VERY dissapointing after getting a big contract. Maybe you could expect more on a new team out from behind Chandler. But you are putting him behind Gasol in this dscenario, so its a lateral move to JON for way more $.

    Haywood has an 11.7 PER all season, and he wasn't playing thru  post-surgery rust. Slightly less blocks, same FG% and an atrocious 59% Ft shooter.

    He is only 1 year younger. At 35 MILLION owed him the next 4 years, that is a terrible financial swap for equal players.


    Boston receives M. Gasol (7.0), R. Felton (7.5) and W. Chandler (4.0)

    Denver receives R. Rondo (10.0) and J Green (6.0) both thriving under G Karl's system especially Green who is better fitted for Western style offence than East coast. I am assuming Denver resigns JR Smith.

    Memphis receives B. Haywood (7.6), D. Galinari(4.1) and A. Afflalo (4.0) or another player/cash/draft pick in lieu of Afflalo. 
    This trade appears to satisfy trade rules of matching up within 125% and 100K reqmnts.

    Denver upgrades at PG. However Lawson is the guy they love and Felton should be a chip used for a big guy, not a PG to keep Lawson on the bench.

    Its a lateral move at SF (chandler is a FA they may not even keep, maybe he'd be an MLE option for us if we trade Green in some other move). But  Green and Gallinari are equals in my eyes. But a very good talent/value exchange for them.

    Memphis, who is IN LOVE w/ Gasol and just went to game 7 of the 2nd rd, gets two players who EXACTLY duplicate Gay/Tony in Gallinari/Afflalo (so no room for them) and a MASSIVE downgrade at C.

    No can do.
    They should keep Battier and trade Gay for something they need (backup C and future draft picks?). Grizz are STACKED for the next couple of years.

    Step 3 Celtics resign D. West (1.6), V. Wafer (1.6) and Kristic (2.5)- about 1/2 current salary.

    Agree on DWest for sure. He may even need the LLE to keep (as you said, if they have one). Wafer or Sasha, either of them at vet min as a 12th man is fine.

    Krstic I can see getting anywhere from 4-6 million, for 1 year to 'prove' himself. He is 7' and a 12-6 guy in like 25 minutes.
    Thats worth more than 2.5.

    He is the guy I'd much rather sign and trade for a real big man than JON. Who can be a solid backup, maybe w/ shaq. JON has some real upside b/c of the surgery success. If he can play like he did in April-May all year. Or if he gets hurt again, he has exp. contract value in Feb.


    Step 4 Do a S&T with New Orleans - BBD (4.0) and C. Landry (4.0) ie sending BBD home.

    Carl Landry had a great series vs. LA. Baby was terrible in pretty much all of 2011. They may look like identical 12p-5r short PF's. But Landry had the superior PER 3 years running ( significant 14.5-11.5 diff) and doesn't have weight problems. He is better. New Orleans knows this. They wouldn't make the swap even for the local kid.

    If we throw in Avery or a pick. and/or make it interesting with Krstic and JON's contracst to take back the bloated Okafor $... then you may have something.

    Step 5 2011 draft - N. Smith (#?), J. Harper (#25), V. Macklin  (#55) or comparables. This means we will have to purchase another 1st round pick which I believe will be available more cheaply than past drafts because of its perceived weakness. You have to acknowledge that you are getting un-developed players but who have skill sets that can contribute, think needed skill sets and potential that may not be available in the vet min FA "crumbs" player stock. Taking a line from the Patriots - "Value picks"
    Possible picks to target (Min #20 (do they need anaother young role player?) OKC #24 (I think they owe us!) or CHI #28 or #30 - again they owe us a favor for T. Tibs.

    We can prob get another pick for Avery or our 2012 #1. Thats all I see. Depends on who slips or who DA loves.

    I'd rather have Avery than Nolan Smith or any of the combo-guards available in the 20's. We kept West remember? And Pierce should play more SG next year.

    If it was Klay Thompson or someone who dropped then by all means.


    Step 6 - Take a Bi-annual MLE flier (if they are still part of the CBA) on J Howard or A Thornton.

    Solid options if Green is involved for a trade that leaves us with a hole as far as 6'8" backup SF who can score a little.


    Overall, I LOVE the effort, but don't see a lot of those as being plausible.
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    Since you went with the 'scr#w the 2012 cap space' scenario. Here is what I'd do in that case.

    Step 1:

    Sign and trade Krstic and Baby and send them with our 2012 1st rd pick (or Avery) to the Clippers for Chris Kaman. We get a 15-9 big guy who can play 30+ mins and is better than Perk. Extend him the max we can under old CBA, but just for 2 years (like 24 million), so we don't hurt 2014 cap space (what will be a better, or at least way more plentiful,. summer than 2012).

    LA has to have the $ to keep DeAndre Jordan (and will then play him a lot). They get GREAT backups to him and Griffin and a guy in his early 20's to add to that core.

    Step 2:

    Trade KG and Avery (or our 2012 1st rd pick) to the Cavs for Baron Davis and Anderson Varejao. Gilbert buys out KG (2-3 million less than his 21.2 owed) and he returns here for vet miniumum (sacrifices 1-2 million).

    Gilbert gets 1 more young 20-21 year old to put with his two top 5 picks. And he says F-you to LeBron by gifting us his favorite old teammates who will defend Bosh like crazy and keep KG rested plus a nasty backup PG who is a close friend of KG and Paul and can play crunch-time mins if Rondo doesn't get much better from the field.

    Step 3:

    Keep DWest. 10% raise on vet minimim? Done before July 1st. LLE or MLE $... sure... but it will have to wait till new CBA comes around.

    Step 4:

    Draft the best possible scoring wing or DeAndre Jordan like raw big and stash him in the D-league for 1-2 years. He can help take the load off big 3 after next season or be forced into action if one of them is hurt.

    Step 5:

    Keep 1 of Sasha/Wafer for vet min. Keep JON as the backup C. Offer Green 4 years 36 million and if he turns it down he prob doesn't get a better offer and is here for qualifying 1 year 6 million.

    2011-2012 Celtics (minutes in parenthesis)

    C - Chris Kaman (32) Jermaine (8) KG (8)
    PF - KG (16) Varejao (24) Green (8)
    SF - Green (24) Pierce (24)
    SG - Ray (28) DWest (12) Pierce (8)
    PG - Rondo (32) Davis (16)

    1st rd pick, sasha/Wafer, maybe shaq w/ the option picked up or Troy Murph @ vet min are our bench.



     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012:
    [QUOTE]rame, you ruined the chances of signing a big name free-agent by acquiring Varejao and Baron Davis. If the Celts don't win a championship next season then the Celts are once again screwed. Varejao has 25.2m remaining for 3 years and a 9.8m team option for 2014-15. Baron Davis has 2 years 28.5m remaining. All the hard work of freeing up cap space for 2012 the last 2 years just for Anderson Varejao and Baron Davis?  
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Yup... and Kaman.

    Unless you think we actually have a shot at Dwight?

    2012 is not a 'dream offseason' there are 3 big names and thats it. 2 are PG's and we are set there. We need big men and Kaman/Nene are the only ones after Dwight.

    So we trade for Kamna NOW. I am including a 2 year extension for him in that as well, just nothing beyond 2014. That is the Magic year Fierce.

    After 2014 we'll have roughly 30 million going to Rondo, Green, Varejao (if he takes the option, as he likely will) and 3-4 rookie contract guys.

    Have you SEEN the possiblities of 2014? Did you see my list of the guys that will/could be out there that summer?

    Ainge has a lot of options to consider, but I SERIOUSLY doubt we can get Dwight. Much better to make moves that strengthen us for 2 solid postseason runs. Get crazy depth to withstand reg season grind and keep big 3 fresh. See what happens. You scoff at building around the big 3... but we are not...they become our 4th-6th most important players next year and play 24-32 minutes..

    Then 2013-14 is a transition year and Paul's swan song. 2014 the team gets STACKED. Why bother saving 12-16 million in cap space for 2012 if it lands us a guy like Nene or Kaman after another bitter 2nd rd exit? We need multiple 25-28 year old talent to add to the Clippers 1st rd pick(22-23), rondo (28), Green(27), Varejao(31) and 2 other early-mid 20's guys for a LONG run at the top right as Miami's guys are 30-31-33.
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    and fierce, I sad 'If you go with a scruw the cap space scenario' in repsosne to the steps this author of this thread was taking.

    Not... this is what has to happen.

    there are several plans you can run with.... mostly seems to be 3 tho.

    1. Cap space, only add 1 year guys, 2nd rd team again

    2. trade Rondo ... try to get cap space for Howard AND add CP3 who'd he'd 'apparently' be more likely to want to play alongside (?)

    3. Stuff like the above, as long as you don't kill 2014 space




     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    All of those moves are extremely short sighted.  If you ask me, I say the best case scenario for us would be to do the following:

    1.) Trade Rondo ($10,045,545), Green ($5,908,641), and the Clippers 2012 first rounder to the Hornets for Chris Paul ($16,559,805) even if the deal has to be expanded to a 3 team-type of trade.  This deal benefits us by allowing us to acquire a point guard who can give us equal production to that of Rondo while giving us the scoring and high shooting percentages from FG, 3PT, FT as Ray Allen without taking on additional salary.  For the Hornets, they are faced with having to re-sign David West in the off-season, which will eat up any potential cap space that they thought they might have.  Paul has been rumored to be looking for the way out of New Orleans since last year, so clearly the Hornets need to try and get something now or risk potentially losing him for nothing. 

    2.) Re-sign Allen and KG under low money deals (in 2012) as in $2-3 mil/yr each with the idea that they, along with Pierce will be super-subs off the bench.

    3.)  Sign Dwight Howard or if this fails trade for Al Jefferson.  Considering that under the scenario mentioned above with Paul at PG, Doc signed to coach for 5 more seasons, and the big three coming off the bench, not to mention enough cap space to sign two premier free agents, I think that this would be enough to lure Howard.  Normally I don't think he'd consider Boston, but if things were to go exactly as I just laid out, I don't think any other team could make as strong of a pitch for Howard to chase a championship realistically.

    4.) Although we'd technically have the cap space to sign another elite free agent in 2012, I'd instead use the cash to spend on veteran free agents trying to chase a ring in order to fill out the roster and to rotate in/out of the lineup with Allen, KG, and Pierce.

    There is no quick fix towards keeping this team elite for the forseable future other than to be patient, be willing to take our lumps during next season, then swing for the fences in 2012/13.
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012 : The Celts have a shot at Dwight in 2012. Very few teams have the cap space to give Dwight the max money and enough cap space to surround Dwight with other great players. Don't forget the Celts officially only have Pierce and Rondo under contract for the 2012-13 season. If you watched the Celtics in the 1990s you know it's not a good idea to try to become a middle of the pack team. Trying to make the playoffs every year but really have no shot at winning a championship is worse than being a lottery team. 
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    This is diff from the early 90's. And I really don't beleive we'd get Howard.

    The only thing similar about 1990 Celtics and this teams situation is a couple young guards, and aging big 3 and Green being a lot like Reggie Lewis.

    Rondo is better than Brian Shaw That would have been like Red not blowing the '89 pick in the teens on michael smith and taking Tim Hardaway instead. DWest is as good as Dee Brown. If Kleine and Pinckney were Kaman and Varejao and the big 3 were not burned out in 35 mins in 91 and 92 the history of the East would be a lot different.

    I'd have rather seen us have a massive amount of cap space in 1994 for a run at 2 guys in their mid 20's (after a couple entertaining East finals losses to chicago and the extension of Bird/McHale's careers) then have a slightly smaller amount of cap space in 1992 for some Hakeem Olajuwon pipe dream after Bird/McHale retired.
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012 : The Celts have a shot at Dwight in 2012. Very few teams have the cap space to give Dwight the max money and enough cap space to surround Dwight with other great players. Don't forget the Celts officially only have Pierce and Rondo under contract for the 2012-13 season. If you watched the Celtics in the 1990s you know it's not a good idea to try to become a middle of the pack team. Trying to make the playoffs every year but really have no shot at winning a championship is worse than being a lottery team. 
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Howard may be traded this year.  I could see the Lakers involved in a trade for Dwight this year.  Not sure who Orlando would want, but I suppose it is possible that this trade could happen. 
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012 : If you're talking about a Andrew Bynum for Dwight swap that's never going to happen. I don't think the Orlando Magic are really that stupid. 
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    You may be right, but that would be the only way that Howard ends up in LA.  You can understand why NBA players want to play in LA.  I have never lived in LA, but after being their on vacation a couple of times, I can understand why people enjoy living in LA.  I have lived in Boston most of my life, but don't really like the cold weather and would enjoy living anywhere where it is warm. 
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012 : Red Auerbach had offers for Kevin McHale but he turned it down because of sentimental value.  Even if the Celts get Chris Kaman or Varejao they would not be defending Wade, Lebron, or Melo. If the Celts would face the Knicks and the Heat again next season Ray and Pierce would be overmatched again. Our Big 3 just got old, the young guys are taking over, it's part of NBA life. They had their chance in 2010 when Game 7 was there for the taking.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Yes the offer for McHale was Schrempf and a 1st rd pick around 20 and Red traded Ainge instead for Joe Kleine and Ed Pinckney.

    The only way you can compare that to what I am saying is if those two players turned into Kaman/Varejao talents and then the Mavs BOUGHT OUT Ainge. and he isn't even one of th eold big 3. He is like trading Baby, DWest or Krstic.

    Kaman/Varejao now is like adding Bill Laimbeer and michale Cage back then. a good shooting 15-8 big guy and a defensive minded 9-9 PF-C.

    Baron Davis and Rondo would be like havoing drafted Tim Hardaway and being gifted a tough vet like say Fat Lever. (Hardaway shoots like Baron and is young, quick and starts like Rondo, Lever is a tall PG like Baron but a defensive rebounder like Rondo).

    We'd be getting a bench basically for free w/ my above scenario.

    In 1991 and 1992 I saw Celtic teams that were the neck and neck with the Bulls when Larry Bird was able to contribute. I have the OT win over chicago on DVD. They went into the 2nd rd 2 years ina row and ran out of gas b/c of health to the big 3 and a supporting cast too young and too weak.

    The Celtics IDIOTICALLY played Bird 34-37 mins a game whenever he deemed himself healthy enough to hit the court. His and McHale's injuries were far more serious than those KG have had. and PP and Ray have both been healthy. I am saying to create a massively deep bench and limit the mins of the big 3 all season.

    If you took Pinckney, Kleine, John Bagley and Michael smith off the 1991-92 Celtics and put Cage, Laimbeer (pretending we didn't hate him), Fat Lever and Tim Hardaway on it... and the East gets A LOT harder for Chicago to win.


    All 3 were all-stars in 2011. They have done nothing this past season but show that they can still contribute only in reduced roles. That had they been surrounded by more talent they'd have beaten Miami.

    Green will guard Melo/LBJ and deng more than PP next year. But Paul did fine on those guys at times... next year he'd just be even more rested.

    Who is goign to guard Kaman and Rondo on NY and Miami? Who has a bench that can compare to Delonte, Baron Davis, Pierce, Varejao and Jermaine O'Neal???

    Dwight Howard is VERY unlikely to come here in my opinion. Form an incredibly deep talented team and shoot for 2014 as the year to have max money.
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012:
    [QUOTE]All of those moves are extremely short sighted.  If you ask me, I say the best case scenario for us would be to do the following: 1.) Trade Rondo ($10,045,545), Green ($5,908,641), and the Clippers 2012 first rounder to the Hornets for Chris Paul ($16,559,805) even if the deal has to be expanded to a 3 team-type of trade.  This deal benefits us by allowing us to acquire a point guard who can give us equal production to that of Rondo while giving us the scoring and high shooting percentages from FG, 3PT, FT as Ray Allen without taking on additional salary.  For the Hornets, they are faced with having to re-sign David West in the off-season, which will eat up any potential cap space that they thought they might have.  Paul has been rumored to be looking for the way out of New Orleans since last year, so clearly the Hornets need to try and get something now or risk potentially losing him for nothing.  2.) Re-sign Allen and KG under low money deals (in 2012) as in $2-3 mil/yr each with the idea that they, along with Pierce will be super-subs off the bench. 3.)  Sign Dwight Howard or if this fails trade for Al Jefferson.  Considering that under the scenario mentioned above with Paul at PG, Doc signed to coach for 5 more seasons, and the big three coming off the bench, not to mention enough cap space to sign two premier free agents, I think that this would be enough to lure Howard.  Normally I don't think he'd consider Boston, but if things were to go exactly as I just laid out, I don't think any other team could make as strong of a pitch for Howard to chase a championship realistically. 4.) Although we'd technically have the cap space to sign another elite free agent in 2012, I'd instead use the cash to spend on veteran free agents trying to chase a ring in order to fill out the roster and to rotate in/out of the lineup with Allen, KG, and Pierce. There is no quick fix towards keeping this team elite for the forseable future other than to be patient, be willing to take our lumps during next season, then swing for the fences in 2012/13.
    Posted by angel3781[/QUOTE]

    If it is all about Howard and his wanting to play w/ CP3, then I would trade rondo for a nasty young PF whose skill-set fits alongside Howard and who makes 4-5 million under his rookie deal still.

    Then you keep Green for 7-8 million a year. trade Avery and our 2010 1st rd pick (unless a great young player drops) for a better 2012 pick.

    Next year you have SG-SF-PF covered in those 2 guys and Pierce, who make about 28 million.

    Paul and Howard split the 24-27 million in cap space between them.

    KG and Ray return at vet min/MLE type salaries. An we draft two other rookies in the teens. Bam. 
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012 : The Clips will not want Baby and Krstic for Kaman. Other teams will have more to offer more than just Baby and Krstic.  Danny Ainge's target is 2012, not 2014. Action speaks louder than words. Tony Allen was a key contributor in the 2010 playoffs, if Ainge didn't have 2012 in mind then TA would still be a Celtic. Michael Jordan was the last player above the age of 32 to win a championship. KG will is 35, Ray will be 36, and Pierce will be 34 next season. And I still can't remember an NBA team winning a championship averaging less than 40 rebounds. 
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    you mean last 'best' player on a team? KG is our best player? That should be rondo if we win another title. Green the 20 point, 25 years old man as well.

    You have no idea what LA would want for Kaman... but paying Baby/Krstic 10 million per to backup the PF-C spots as a pair of the best guys in the league to do so (while picking up a 1st rd pick) is more than fair to dump the 1 year 12m Kaman has left when they know he will not return.

    Ainge made a mistake not keeping Tony, If he keeps saving 2012 cap space this offseaosn I will hold my breathe he knows more than me and maybe think we have a shot at Howard.

    But if we don't get Howard we will have wasted 2 years of possible championship teams. Tony and Sheed/Avery turned into something last summer would have made us nasty this year.... and the multiple options we have this summer RIGHT NOW will be WASTED on the DH pipe dream and IMO it will be inforgivable if we don't get howard.

    and i don't think we will.
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    The celtics tried to keep tony allen by offering the same contract that memphis did, but at that point it was too late, as allen saw a brighter future for himself with the grizz.  Both of you make good points and with rameakap's scenario I think we would be much better than a "middle of the pack" team.  We would contend for the title.  Baron Davis was once an elite pg and is good friends with pierce, so I think he would bust his a** to get into great shape with a championship in reach.  Yes there will be teams with younger superstars at the wing, but with kg, kaman, Varejao, JO and possibly shaq(signs w team late in year) we would dominate the middle.  We would also be very strong at pg with rondo and davis who would keep the defense honest. Its not like our wing players wouldn't be able to hold their own with ray, west, pierce and green.  If this was the team this year we would have been in the finals.  Knowing how much the big three push themselves to stay in shape and with the "possible" acquisitions listed by Rameakap, I believe the big three would have fresh legs for the 2012 playoffs.  However, if you can trade rondo, green and draft pick for chris paul then you go in that direction as there would then be a good chance to get howard.  The big three could then resign for cheap, make several title runs, and retire in green.
     
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    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012 : Tony Allen wanted a 3-year 9m deal. The Celts were just offering 6m for 2 years. Two things you should know why the Celts will not win a championship. First, Michael Jordan was the last player to win a championship above the age of 32 years old. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson couldn't do it. And second, I can't remember an NBA team winning a championship averaging less than 40 rebounds per game.  If you look at the salary cap situation of the Celtics you will see that only Rondo and Pierce are under contract for the 2012-13 season. It's not a coincidence. Doc Rivers didn't hesitate to come back even though he knows the Celts will be rebuilding after next season. Is it also a coincidence that Doc's son Austin will be available for the 2012 Draft and the Celts potentially have 2 1st round picks in 2012?
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    I get exactly what you are saying Fierce.

    The signs currently point to the Celtics saving up a bunch of cap space for 2012.

    Jackie Mac mentioned what many of us are thinking. With so much expiring $ and Doc signing on for 5 years Danny is up to something. Now I don't know what and I'll wait to see and cross my fingers it is special.

    I still think its 2 options:

    A. The use exp deals and late rd draft picks to add serious talent with bigger long-term deals and 2014 cap space.

    or

    B. Clearing everything possible away and making the run at Howard even as people speculate that he likes Orlando, would leave only for big markets like LA, New York and Chicago and was never a fan of Boston as a city.

    All the moves Danny made of late show he is interested in 2012 and not 2014. Had he been interested in building around the big three past 2010 he'd have made moves to get expensive pieces to boost our bench.

    I'd think Perk would still be here, same starting 5 last 2 years, but with a bench of Hinrich or Baron Davis, Tony Allen, Ariza or Posey, Baby and someone other than Rasheed at Center (if only he drafted DeAndre Jordan or signed Birdman over Patrick O'Bryant).   
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    Here are the big questions for you Fierce (and for anyone worrying or looking ahead to 2012):

    1. What will the salary cap be? Currently 58 million but Stern wants it to drop a lot.

    2. What is the minimum amount under you have to be to sign a max player when the new max contracts get decided on? (last summer it was 16-17 million under).

    3. With just PP and Rondo commited to 26.7 million we'd have more than enough space to sign a max guy at the current standards AND keep Green (at 7-8 million) and Avery and our #1 this year (that'd be about 53 million).

    So what the #'s will be is what interests me and detremines a course of action.

    4. The 2012 Clippers pick in the teens will be of utmost importance. I think more for a trade. If we use it the young star will have to be able to start at the position it looks like we'll have a massive gap at... PF.

    The 2012 draft is completely and utterly devoid of a strating quality PF beyond the top 5 (Anthony Davis Kentucky Fresh and Jared Sullinger OSU soph).

    (Red blew such picks on Michael Smith and later Joe Forte when PG's of the future Tim Hardaway and Tony Parket were the obv choices).

    5. That leads us to.....Would you consider trading Rondo in a deal that bring back an elite PF? A player still under rooklie contract.

    Such a deal for a 4-6 million PF would then mean we'd set our sights on having BOTH Howard and CP3 sign here and SPLIT the available space... MAYBE there would be enough space to have it be a max deal for each?

    Is that possible?

    Kevin Love would be the perfect choice. A 12-12 grabage man who wouldn't get in howards way on offense.

    Jason Thompson, Robin Lopez, J.J. Hickson, Jordan Hill, Greg Monroe and Ed Davis are all such possibilities.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    Two things you should know why the Celts will not win a championship. First, Michael Jordan was the last player to win a championship above the age of 32 years old. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson couldn't do it. And second, I can't remember an NBA team winning a championship averaging less than 40 rebounds per game.

    As for Champions Fierce...

    If you stick with the team I made it would look at lot like the 1990 Pistons and 1988 Lakers...

    It would be...

    Rondo having to have an improved shot and be a 17 point, 13 assist guy electric '10 playoff guy all the time. He has to become a superstar. Has to steal all-NBA 2nd or 3rd team PG away from DWill or CP3. If so we can say its him vs. Magic an Isiah, who were 28-29 those years.

    Clearly he needs a jump in play to close the current cap, despite all NBA 1st team D and all-star status.

    Kaman is FAR FAR better than the A.C. Green/Kurt Rambis duo as far as rotation bigs in their 20's. He'd play the James Edwards in Detroit role, 14 points (only 4 boards for Edwards) even tho he was 34. Kaman will be 29 and is better.

    Varejao would have to be Rodman (8 pts-9 boards) bulldog D on Amare, Boozer and Bosh the way Rodman played Bird and Magic. He would fill the Mychal Thompson role in LA, 11 points and 6 boards in 25 mins for LA that year. Thompson was 33. All 3 are pretty equal in my mind.

    Green has to step up as a starter and show all his promise. Its him vs. Dumars and Worthy. He has to be our 2nd best player next year. All 3 were 26. All 3 were cerebral smooth scorers getting 18-19 a game. Green should be expected to be that talent next year.

    Garnett will be 35. but Kareem was 40!! Kareem at 40 was a 15 and 6 guy in 29 mins. He only got 5.5 boards in the playoffs that year. KG at 35 should be a 13-7 guy in 25-27 reg season mins. Laimbeer was 33 and a 12-9. If given the same 34 playoff mins Laimbeer had that year I'm sure KG will give the same 11p-10r effort w/ 45% Fg and 85% Ft next playoffs. I'd take him over the other two, as long as e give him rest and he has no further knee issues.

    Pierce is Aquirre. Age 34 vs age 30 isn't really even. but Aquirre was a 14 point 4 reb 2 asst guy in 26 mins. Pierce should be a little better in a little more reg seaosn mins next year and be rested enough to remain a closer on offense. I'd take PP 2012 over Aquirre 1990 anyday. He is Michael Cooper for LA. A 31 year old solid wing defender who gave only 9 points and 3 boards.

    DWest is Tony Campbell. A 25 year old 11 point bench scorer in 19 mins. The DWest/Pierce combo is way better than Campbell/Cooper. There is no DWest on Detroit.

    Ray Allen gets to be Vinnie Johnson. Microwave was 33 and only a 10 point scorer in 24 minutes. Ray big advantage. Against LA Ray is outclassed in his match-up with the 26 year old Byron Scott who was a 22 point scorer for LA that year.

    Now I've gone thru Detroits 8 man rotation and LA's 9-man one w/o mentioning Baron Davis. He had a VERY good PER of 18 last year an went for 13-14 points and 6-7 assists in 27 minutes last year. He'd get 18-22 minutes for us, resting Ray and Rondo. He would even out the Ray/Byron match-up and clearly makes the Celtics superior to the Pistons who had little as far as a bench and just two good scorers.

    So fierce, I'd say that team I created would be as good as the '88 Lakers and better than the '90 Pistons as long as Rondo and Green make a jump in their games and the big 3 remians healthy, more rested versions of their 2010 selves.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: New "NBA" Rebuild Plan - thinking ahead of 2012

    If you are keeping score Fierce I just provided 2 NBA champions who relied HEAVILY on six 32 year old + guys in their top 6 players.

    Rondo has to be our superstar. Magic/Isiah impact. I am not comparing our big 3 to MJ.

    I compare them to Laimbeer (33) James Edwards (34) and Vinnie Johnson (33). Mychal Thompson (33) Kareem (40) and Michale cooper (32).

    Other recent champions who had 'old' guys in their top 6 players:

    - Rodman in the 2nd Bulls 3-peat (35-37 years old).
    - Horry for the Spurs in 05/07 (35 and 37)
    - David Robinson in '03 (37 and an 8p-7r guy).
    - Drexler was 33 days after winning the championship in 95.
    - Bill Cartwright was 33-35 for the 1st 3 Bulls teams. KG is WAY better
    - Glen Rice came up HUGE for LA in '00, 16ppg at age 33.
    - Shaq was 34 in '06 with the Heat.
     

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