NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?:
    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL? : No he would not, Russell was Russell and as I said in my earlier post. Chamberlain never won at Kansas and never won really won in the NBA compared to Russell. Russell won two NCAA championships on a team out of nowhere. He won at Melbourne in the Olympics. And other than his injured year in 1958 in the finals he would have won 12 out of 13.  Wilt did not have the intangibles Russell had (those you can't teach)and off all people with Russ in your name here you should know that.  
    Posted by concord27


    You are totally forgetting Red!!  It all stems from the top.  The man had the will to win as much as any coach ever.  In addition, we all loved Russ, but he was very high maintenence..............I don't think he could have excelled under anyone but Red.  Red let him do what HE wanted on the court.....and sorry, but   I think Chamberlain, with Sam Jones, KC Jones, Hondo, Satch, etc. would have been just as dominant.....as you said, it was a team....AND a coach!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?:
    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL? : Fits? Try this: Wilt averaged 28 & 28 against Russell. Wilt had a game high 62pts against Russell and 6 other 50+ games. Wilt's record 55 rebound game was against Russell, and he had six other 40+ rebound games vs. Bill. Russell only had one 40+ rebound night against Wilt. In fact, Wilt won 9 of 11 rebounding titles when both were active. Wilt is still the only center to lead the league in assists for a season and almost did it twice. Russell found a system that he could fit into perfectly with a better support cast and so won more championships. But when it comes down to who is the superior player, Wilt wins hands down! Think of it like this, compare Ray against Kobe. Yeah, it's that easy.
    Posted by Elven 32

    Wilt put up the numbers and Russ won the games.He was the best player on every one of 11 championship teams.Ask his teammates.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?:
    Wilt was overly sensitive to the selfish player tag. So after they won in 67 he led the league in assists in 67-68. He proved he was unselfish. The stange thing about Wilt was why he  was traded twice? The Warriors moved to San Fran. and I guess they went bad so he came home to Philly in 65 to play for the Sixers who were formerly the Syracuse Nationals. The wierdest thing was why he would want to be traded after those great teams he played for from 65-68. I think he said he was promised part ownership of the Sixers and the owner changed his mind. The trades never equaled out either. I guess there must be something there if the greatest player of his era is traded twice.
    Posted by jaytf25

    Wilt didn`t prove that he was unselfish by winning the assist title.He just proved that he could put up numbers in another category.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrJohnnyMost. Show MrJohnnyMost's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    Not sure Wilt would have paid Red any mind.

    We'll never know, but it was always Wilt's show.

    As far as the assist title demonstrating unselfishness. Baloney!

    Wilt was ridiculous that year and refused to shoot. He had won his championship in 67 and wanted an assist title. So the hell with playing the game. When Russ saw what he was up to, he didn't even guard him. Wilt wouldn't take an open path, he was so intent on finding an assist.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    I remember it well....in the deciding game against the Celtics, Wilt refused to take shots because he was making his point of being able to lead the league in assists.....most of the sportsworld was stunned by his (lack of) performance in that deciding game....his selfishness cost the Sixers a huge win...Dr Jack Ramsey took over as coach the next year and the first thing he did was to ask that Wilt be traded...can you imagine Russell being traded not once but twice...?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?:
    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL? : You are totally forgetting Red!!  It all stems from the top.  The man had the will to win as much as any coach ever.  In addition, we all loved Russ, but he was very high maintenence..............I don't think he could have excelled under anyone but Red.  Red let him do what HE wanted on the court.....and sorry, but   I think Chamberlain, with Sam Jones, KC Jones, Hondo, Satch, etc. would have been just as dominant.....as you said, it was a team....AND a coach!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11

    Nobody is suggesting Red was not a genius, but if you asked Red he would say that it was Russell. Russell as I stated won everywhere without Red before he got to Boston.  Red was smart enough to draft him and surround him with a team that could be so dominant. It all starts with Russell though, the other half of your namesake would be the first to tell you.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?:
    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL? : Nobody is suggesting Red was not a genius, but if you asked Red he would say that it was Russell. Russell as I stated won everywhere without Red before he got to Boston.  Red was smart enough to draft him and surround him with a team that could be so dominant. It all starts with Russell though, the other half of your namesake would be the first to tell you.
    Posted by concord27


    Yes, I know you are right - he was one of a kind. And we will never know, but perhaps it wouldn't be AS dominant......I think Russ and Red were perfect for each other, like Brady and Belichik!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pliu. Show pliu's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    To the extent that numbers mean anything here's Russell's and Wilt's career regular season and playoff numbers:

    Russell
    Regular season   15.1 ppg        playoffs 16.2 ppg
                           22.5 rebs                   24.9 rebs
                           4.3 assists                 4.7 assits

                          

    Wilt
    Regular season                     playoffs
                        30.1 ppg         22.5 ppg
                         22.9 rebs       24.5 rebs
                        4.4 assists      4.2 assists

    Russell's production increased in the playoffs while Wilt's did not and, in the case
    of scoring, dropped a great deal.

    These numbers tell you that Russ was at his best when everything was on the line.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pliu. Show pliu's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?:
    How many Championships would Chamberlin win if he played for "Red", and the Celtics cast? A whole lot!  Russell didn't win because he was Bill Russell.  He won because he ws part of the Celtic teams.
    Posted by CaptChris


    We'll never know.

    You imply that the C's had better teams and this was usually true at least during the early part of Wilt's career.

    However when Wilt went to the 76'ers I'd say that the talent was comparable.  Those teams had Luke Jackson and Chet Walker at forward, Hal Greer and Wally Jones at guard and Billy Cunningham as the 6th man.  They played the C's four straight years in the playoffs and Boston won three of them.

    Of course when Wilt went to LA, he teamed with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor while the C's were considered over the hill.

    Wilt played on some great teams and butted heads with Russ's Celtics something like eight times in the playoffs and came away with one win.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    Russell two NCAA championships
    Gold medal 1956 Olympics

    11 NBA Championships in thirteen years.




    Wilt two NBA championships and some great stats.

    This is all that needs to be considered.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaytf25. Show jaytf25's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    Well since we did a Wilt-Russell comparison, how about a Oscar Robertson- Michael Jordan comparison. The stats and other things tell me Jordan but believe me Oscar was the Jordan of his day. I think he averaged a triple-double for an entire season and was one of the few to do it, if not the only one? The people who watched Oscar said he was the best all around player of that era and just as good as Jordan. I saw an interview with Oscar and he said he could have beaten Jordan one on one if both were in their primes.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrJohnnyMost. Show MrJohnnyMost's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?:
    Well since we did a Wilt-Russell comparison, how about a Oscar Robertson- Michael Jordan comparison. The stats and other things tell me Jordan but believe me Oscar was the Jordan of his day. I think he averaged a triple-double for an entire season and was one of the few to do it, if not the only one? The people who watched Oscar said he was the best all around player of that era and just as good as Jordan. I saw an interview with Oscar and he said he could have beaten Jordan one on one if both were in their primes.
    Posted by jaytf25


    I don't want to touch that one...  but here goes.

    Oscar and Jerry West, unquestionably the two finest guards I've ever seen. Write it down and forget about it.

    Years go by and then here comes Magic.... uh oh. I think I might have to take him, which sucks because he actually beat us unlike West.

    Jordan, to me, didn't really have a position. He was simply the greatest player who ever laced them up. I don't think of him as a guard... he was much more and deserves his own category.

    Being a Celtics fan, I didn't really like any of these guys. But I do remember standing and applauding Oscar after a fine play. This was in the Garden and I wasn't the only one standing and clapping.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CAPITALIST_AVENGER. Show CAPITALIST_AVENGER's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    In Response to Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?:
    Well since we did a Wilt-Russell comparison, how about a Oscar Robertson- Michael Jordan comparison. The stats and other things tell me Jordan but believe me Oscar was the Jordan of his day. I think he averaged a triple-double for an entire season and was one of the few to do it, if not the only one? The people who watched Oscar said he was the best all around player of that era and just as good as Jordan. I saw an interview with Oscar and he said he could have beaten Jordan one on one if both were in their primes.
    Posted by jaytf25
    dont ever tell this to jerry west, thought that oscar was the most selfish player ever, just cared about his own stats and didnt make anyone around him any better. his own peers do not seem to have a clear consensus about his greatness. there's no question about any great player of his era who the man was. from hakeem to kobe to iverson to reggie miller to magic to bird, they will all say jordan without even a hesitation.. period!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    "  just cared about his own stats and didnt make anyone around him any better."

    Umm many of those stats were rebounds and assists that helped his team win and score points. 

    Oscar wasn't a well liked player so you're getting confused there. Many of Jordan's teammates didn't like him either. 

    Wilt was a great physical talent and way better than Shaq, I think he would have creamed Shaq head to head, but fact remains that Wilt lost to Russel head to head. In some ways Wilt underachieved. 

    Russell on the other hand knew how to win. Wilt may not get enough respect, but doesn't mean he's better than Russell. 

    If you're going that route, please remove your "winning is the only thing" tagline from your posts. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaytf25. Show jaytf25's posts

    Re: NEW RESPECT FOR WILT, BETTER THAN RUSSELL?

    Speaking of Oscar did anybody read Bill Simmons book about basketball? He says he saw Oscar at an airport but was afraid to interview because he heard how unfriendly he was. He says Isiah Thomas was actually nice to him even though Bill had ripped him at numerous times. Then again Russell was suppose to be pretty cold also. My nephew saw him in Atlantic City and he went to talk to him but Russ just walked by.  Dr. J on the other hand couldn't have been nicer and talked for a few minutes to my nephew and his friends
     
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