Nostalgia for former players

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    Great post Henry, I couldn't agree more. I never saw any reply when you were asked if you are the true "High Henry".....no info on your profile so I'd guess not....but you sure do know your basketball.....please keep the posts coming m' man
     
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    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    I think that some people believe that these players can still do what they did well in Boston while they are here.  The fact is that each of these players are either over the hill or too much of a mental liability.  Of course I wouldn't mind having Delonte here so when the C's play Miami our fans can make chants about the "Delonte & LBJ's mom" escapade.
     
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    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    The C's didn't have a 6'8 backup 3 last year and they came 5 points from winning the championship. Daniels did a good job until his injury and he's 6'6. T.A @ 6'4 did a stellar defensive job against opposing 3's.
        If players are good defenders, they don't have to be that tall, especially when there is a good defensive line giving help on defense down low. On the perimeter it is more important defensively to stick to your man, keep them in front of you and make them shoot unbalanced shots with the defender contesting the shot correctly.
        We'll see how well Wafer defends this season. I don't know how well he defends. Daniels is an above average defender. I don't think that at this point the C's need to add that backup 6'8 person to play the 3 spot.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    Big Al and Delonte were needed for KG and Ray, no big deal they are gone. Delonte would merely have been a solid option if we didn't keep Nate or draft Bradley. Big Al was being given away for picks and $ savings. Utah gave Minny more than we could have, but if they did offer him to us for  say Sheed, Baby and a 1st rounder you'd have been insane not to bring him back.

    Antoine never should have been traded, just allowed to expire as a contract in '05. Unless people want to go as far as saying Raef was needed to get KG through a series of moves... but really, cap space from no Toine and a rebuilding team would have done the trick as well. Antoine got us the Delonte draft pick, but then again we traded away (and later reaquired) the Rondo pick to get Toine back in '05.
     
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    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    Danny did way too much finangling early in his GM career.

    I guess in the end I'd have traded 'Toine right off the bat like he did b/c it may have made us a worse enough team in '04 to draft Big Al. We may have been the 6 or 7 seed with Antoine and Delk on the club over Raef (injured all year) and Juri Welsch

    Of course everyone gets annoyed at Chris Wallace for sending Joe Johnson to Phoenix, when the suns gave him the choice of JJ or Kederick Brown to include (Jim O'Brian was at that point playing Kederick over joe)

    But nobody gives Danny any trouble for his instant boners in '03. Accepting Juri Welsch over Josh Howard. C's were given a choice. Then the pick of Marcus Banks of Luke Ridnour. The the strange trades for Ricky Davis and Payton. AND horrible Mark Blount contract, that was DA's 1st year on the job.

    Also, if you are rebuilding, and you looked at x-rays of Raef and didn't like what you saw over the summer. Why not have him go under the knife then and there, miss the entire season, come back stronger, get a better draft pick. Instead you amde him play some games and cause further damage before surgery.

     
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    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    The Celts '04-05 team should have looked like this:

    C - Raef (healthier), Battie
    PF - Eric Williams, Big Al
    SF - Josh Howard, Waltah
    SG - Pierce, Kevin Martin (drafted over TA b/c Howard is wing defender)
    PG - Chucky Atkins, Luke Ridnour

    A much more cap friendly club, that wouldn't do quite so good, but would have gotten us a better draft pick, so we could have taken Danny Granger, who we coveted, over Gerald Green.

    Then we could have still nabbed Rondo in '06

    Summer of '06 would have been when I made the move for KG, with Ridnour, a choice of Granger/Howard, Big Al and either Raef or more likely we'd have the cap space
     
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    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    In Response to Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE] The Cs need a young, athletic wing with size (6'8" or taller) who can shoot the 3 and shut down the opposing team's scorer.  Currently, we don't have one.  Danny needs to work a deal to get one.  Plain and simple. 
    Posted by henryfinkel[/QUOTE]

    Can you name anyone like this in the NBA?


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeamUmbutu. Show TeamUmbutu's posts

    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    Henry I agree completely.
     
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    In Response to Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]With all the recent posts about bringing back Delonte or Toine or Big Al or Posey or whomever, you would think that the Cs make a big mistake by getting rid of them in the first place.  The fact is these players are all seriously flawed, which was eventually recognized by Danny (although this does not speak well for his initial assessment of them).  Delonte had some off-court issues while at St. Joe's which the Cs conveniently decided to overlook.  (Just like when the Mavs took Roy Tarpley who fell to them in the mid-first round due to his fondness for coke while at Michigan.)  Toine goes about 300 lbs now and has gambling debts up to the yang.  Big Al was never a good defender and has had some serious knee issues.  Posey did well in his brief stint here, but his wheels are shot and he is no longer the defensive stopper he once was. These are the guys you want to bring back!  Get real!  The Cs need a young, athletic wing with size (6'8" or taller) who can shoot the 3 and shut down the opposing team's scorer.  Currently, we don't have one.  Danny needs to work a deal to get one.  Plain and simple. 
    Posted by henryfinkel[/QUOTE]

    This needs to copied and pasted into all those threads about former Celtics.  We need to look to the future and not the past.  They are gone for a reason whether we like it or not. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    I posted the below about the "Over-The Hill-Gang" elsewhere & copied & pasted it again here as I felt it was appropriate to explain that we should not be despondent that we have a bunch of old players.  Yes, we should look to the future bringing up younger players but I really think we want a nucleus that can bring us a title in the next 1 or 2 years & I think we've almost got it.  Need another 3 pt shooter threat like Pierce & Allen.


    I'm 71 and play competitive USTA tennis tournaments & beat most people my age at my level. But I also beat people 15-20 years younger and, sure, I use slices, topspin, drop shot, lobs etc. & mix up my game but because of experience, I many times beat a younger more athletic player.

    I know it's football but I remind everyone of the following when I read posts that the Celtics will be too old.


    The average age of starters was 31 years old. However, Allen's strategy turned the Redskins around as the team improved to a 9-4-1 record in 1971, and finished the 1972 season with an NFC-best 11-3 record. The retooled Redskins' nine victories in 1971 was the most by a Washington team in 29 years. In his seven seasons with the club, Allen and his veterans produced seven winning records, five playoff appearances, and one trip to the Super Bowl.

    AMEN !!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from toineson. Show toineson's posts

    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    In Response to Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]Toine goes about 300 lbs now and has gambling debts up to the yang.
    Posted by henryfinkel[/QUOTE]

    T*ine goes about 300 1bs now?  I must have missed that one.  I would say you are about 80 lbs off.

    Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.   This is not a case of sentimentality over substance.  We would have won game 7 in L.A. with An*oine Walker.  He saved his teams on the road in the 05 playoffs and on the road in the game 6 2006 finals, not just with his play, but with his knack for bucking the onslaught of growing crowd momentum by providing that veteran assuredness and patented An*oine Walker fiery energy in the team huddles, allowing guys to still believe in themselves when everything seems to be slipping away.  I wish the 4th quarter in the 06 finals game 6 at Dallas was still on youtube so we could have a refresher.  Wade alluded to it in the recent Miami thrice press conference, you can make jokes about Ant*ine and pile on the misinformation campaign but most of these guys greatly respect him as a person.   

    Game 7 in 2010 was sadly over as soon as the 4th quarter started; the emotional leaders were drained, and you cannot reasonably expect that vacuum to be filled entirely by the coach.   If people want to blame the refs or the injuries then go right ahead, but it's a shame that people are not learning the most important lessons from that game. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from henryfinkel. Show henryfinkel's posts

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    In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]I posted the below about the "Over-The Hill-Gang" elsewhere & copied & pasted it again here as I felt it was appropriate to explain that we should not be despondent that we have a bunch of old players.  Yes, we should look to the future bringing up younger players but I really think we want a nucleus that can bring us a title in the next 1 or 2 years & I think we've almost got it.  Need another 3 pt shooter threat like Pierce & Allen. I'm 71 and play competitive USTA tennis tournaments & beat most people my age at my level. But I also beat people 15-20 years younger and, sure, I use slices, topspin, drop shot, lobs etc. & mix up my game but because of experience, I many times beat a younger more athletic player. I know it's football but I remind everyone of the following when I read posts that the Celtics will be too old. The average age of starters was 31 years old. However, Allen's strategy turned the Redskins around as the team improved to a 9-4-1 record in 1971, and finished the 1972 season with an NFC-best 11-3 record. The retooled Redskins' nine victories in 1971 was the most by a Washington team in 29 years. In his seven seasons with the club, Allen and his veterans produced seven winning records, five playoff appearances, and one trip to the Super Bowl. AMEN !!!
    Posted by mandobello[/QUOTE]

    More power to you brother!
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinnacle10. Show pinnacle10's posts

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    In Response to Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]The Cs need a young, athletic wing with size (6'8" or taller) who can shoot the 3 and shut down the opposing team's scorer.  Currently, we don't have one.  Danny needs to work a deal to get one.  Plain and simple. 
    Posted by henryfinkel[/QUOTE]

    Seriously....name someone in the NBA right now that fits your description.  Outside of a couple of superstars I don't think this player exists.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Nostalgia for former players : T*ine goes about 300 1bs now?  I must have missed that one.  I would say you are about 80 lbs off. Posted by toineson[/QUOTE]

    he's probably closer than you are.  twon came into the league at 245 and did nothing but slowly add weight.  probably 25 lbs worth by the time the c's got rid of him.  and then he looked appreciably heavier in the couple years he stuck around after leaving miami, esp. in minnesota.

    word is he's worked out some with pitino, probably a desperation move to get another nba paycheck.  my impression of twon toward the end of his run with the c's was - terrible shot selection + dwindling mobility thanks to knee issues, add in obvious weight issues.

    add to that weight and you have a clunker of a player.  now if he's lost all the way back down to 245 then that would be great for him but i have doubts that even at that weight he has much to give to the nba game.  he'd have to re-invent himself as a razzle dazzle post up guy with some repectable (close to anyway) hops in his game and lateral quickness. 

    he was never good enough at bombing three's to do it as much as he did. 

    so you have a very tall order there for twin to be a contributor in the leauge again.  many different factors- weight, shot selection, quickness, some jumping ability all to be re-gained.

    i can't see him bringing anything to the c's this year.  maybe take over scal position on the bench for vet min?  i think twon's looking for and needs more than that. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from toineson. Show toineson's posts

    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players : he's probably closer than you are.  twon came into the league at 245 and did nothing but slowly add weight.  probably 25 lbs worth by the time the c's got rid of him.  and then he looked appreciably heavier in the couple years he stuck around after leaving miami, esp. in minnesota. word is he's worked out some with pitino, probably a desperation move to get another nba paycheck.  my impression of twon toward the end of his run with the c's was - terrible shot selection + dwindling mobility thanks to knee issues, add in obvious weight issues. add to that weight and you have a clunker of a player.  now if he's lost all the way back down to 245 then that would be great for him but i have doubts that even at that weight he has much to give to the nba game.  he'd have to re-invent himself as a razzle dazzle post up guy with some repectable (close to anyway) hops in his game and lateral quickness.  he was never good enough at bombing three's to do it as much as he did.  so you have a very tall order there for twin to be a contributor in the leauge again.  many different factors- weight, shot selection, quickness, some jumping ability all to be re-gained. i can't see him bringing anything to the c's this year.  maybe take over scal position on the bench for vet min?  i think twon's looking for and needs more than that. 
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    My impression of Toine toward the end of his run with the C's was.... he once again made everyone around him better, and the Celtics went from being below .500 to a sleeper championship contender.  And Toine was once again clutch come playoff time game 6 with the season on the line. And that after he left Boston, he had a higher effective field goal % than Paul Pierce the following season.  My other impression is that most people are in the habit of seeing the glass half empty with Antoine rather than half full.  Funny how many Celtics fans will gladly go to bat for a guy like Larry Hughes and make excuses for him, but not for a guy who already laid it all on the line for this team. 

    You're right about Pitino and Toine, only the weight goal is Toine's college weight at the 220 range.  And if you were keeping up the last few months you would know how ridiculous the 300 pounds charge is.   

    Guys, if you want to talk fat, then talk about Big Baby Davis.  That guy is legitimately fat.  Looking at pics of Toine from his Miami days, HE WAS NOT FAT.  Sorry to use caps locks ha, but seriously, he looks in great shape in all the pics I've seen regardless of how the media wants to portray things.  But guess what... this goes back to "toine as a tweener" that we discuss in the "Toineson's best available 20 FA's thread."  Actually to play the 4 imo, Toine needed to pack on some pounds.  It was always a tough balancing act for the guy in navigating the Tweener's Dilemma.  As for "shot selection" I'm not going to repeat myself again.

    Did Robert Horry have to "re-invent" himself to last until 37?  I mean, a little reinvention is normal, but Toine has plenty of strengths already, including experience, that would benefit teams as a 3rd string SF/PF utility player as a 14th man, "just in case" option off the bench.     
     
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    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players : Guys, if you want to talk fat, then talk about Big Baby Davis.  That guy is legitimately fat.  Looking at pics of Toine from his Miami days, HE WAS NOT FAT.  Posted by toineson[/QUOTE]

    you're wrong about davis.  davis is faster than twon ever was.  davis is just a very large person.  when he was drafted he had some fat- and he soon lost most all of it.  davis was legitimately a fatso in high school, but lost weight in college and even more in the pro's.  he remains a person with a (freakishly) large frame and much more muscular structure than an average person.  there is a difference between fat and large. 

    i must admit that i did not follow twon much in miami.  i do know however that my (and everyone else i knew) memories of twon showing up with a little more weight on him to start camp each year was real.  i also know that i remember him being in unfortunate shape in his year with minnesota.

    i also remember twon was suspended for conditioning issues the year after miami won it all.  so there is something to be said that the guy has had some weight issues.

    compared to davis... there is no comparison.  davis was drafted a little bit fat and lost it and has never regained it.  he has gained a lot of muscle bulk, which is needed to propel someone of his size around at a nice clip.

    so don't just strike out blindly at davis becuase of walker's legit past weight issues.  and davis has legit PAST weight issues too- but they are in the past as long as he does his work and doesn't eat fried chicken all summer like twon was proud to say he did.  

    that said, i have gone looking for articles on twon and other than one that said he was working out with pitino, i haven't seen any.  do you have any links?  i'd love for twon to be a happy ending with a couple years in the league.  i am still convinced that this c's team is not his best proving ground.  but i'd love to see any articles that are updating his conditioning / training status. 

    i think 220 is a lofty weight goal for twon.  i didn't see anything wrong with him at 245 when he came into the league.  he had quick post moves and was an effective player.

    lastly, you are right about twon being a good clutch contributor for the celts, and also the heat.  he did bring the team together in that series vs. indiana where we came back from an unprobable w-l deficit and i really loved isiah losing as a coach like that and all of his curious substitutions as his team went down the drain.

    so i'm not an anti-twon guy.  i think his career could have been so much more effective if he had quit the 3's and focused on being an inside guy.  i'm not sure he can do that (inside effectiveness) at his age, mileage and knee issues.  have you heard anything about the health of his knees?  i know they were sore a lot in boston.
     
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    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players : you're wrong about davis.  davis is faster than twon ever was.  davis is just a very large person.  when he was drafted he had some fat- and he soon lost most all of it.  davis was legitimately a fatso in high school, but lost weight in college and even more in the pro's.  he remains a person with a (freakishly) large frame and much more muscular structure than an average person.  there is a difference between fat and large.  i must admit that i did not follow twon much in miami.  i do know however that my (and everyone else i knew) memories of twon showing up with a little more weight on him to start camp each year was real.  i also know that i remember him being in unfortunate shape in his year with minnesota. i also remember twon was suspended for conditioning issues the year after miami won it all.  so there is something to be said that the guy has had some weight issues. compared to davis... there is no comparison.  davis was drafted a little bit fat and lost it and has never regained it.  he has gained a lot of muscle bulk, which is needed to propel someone of his size around at a nice clip. so don't just strike out blindly at davis becuase of walker's legit past weight issues.  and davis has legit PAST weight issues too- but they are in the past as long as he does his work and doesn't eat fried chicken all summer like twon was proud to say he did.   that said, i have gone looking for articles on twon and other than one that said he was working out with pitino, i haven't seen any.  do you have any links?  i'd love for twon to be a happy ending with a couple years in the league.  i am still convinced that this c's team is not his best proving ground.  but i'd love to see any articles that are updating his conditioning / training status.  i think 220 is a lofty weight goal for twon.  i didn't see anything wrong with him at 245 when he came into the league.  he had quick post moves and was an effective player. lastly, you are right about twon being a good clutch contributor for the celts, and also the heat.  he did bring the team together in that series vs. indiana where we came back from an unprobable w-l deficit and i really loved isiah losing as a coach like that and all of his curious substitutions as his team went down the drain. so i'm not an anti-twon guy.  i think his career could have been so much more effective if he had quit the 3's and focused on being an inside guy.  i'm not sure he can do that (inside effectiveness) at his age, mileage and knee issues.  have you heard anything about the health of his knees?  i know they were sore a lot in boston.
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take a cheap shot at Big Baby just for the heck of it, I like the guy a lot.  But c'mon, in game 5 against Orlando I think it was when he was concussed and made the valiant effort to get up, it was made even easier to see when he was laying there on his back.... that wasn't muscle in his midsection friend, it made it even more obvious how much lard the guy carries around in those parts.  I just bring up Big Baby b/c if people want to throw around the "300 pounds" crap about Antoine, I think they've got him confused for Baby.  So Yeah I agree, between Twon and Big Baby there is no comparison.     

    Glad you bring up Pat Riles and, in my book, his RIDICULOUS body fat % standard, and double standard.  My take?  It was mostly political, in 06-07 he needed to point the finger at SOMEONE for the team's struggles, and he knew that no one would stick up for Antoine in the media or elsewhere.  After all, it played into the popular media template, that Antoine was a problem child who wouldn't make sacrifices for the team (nevermind how this template falls flat on its face when you examine Antoine's career-long pattern of durability and reliability and leadership/team play).  So to make an example out of guys, Riley decided to suspend Antoine and James Posey (funny though how most people forget about Posey's suspension).  And key distinction, it was NOT a question of weight, because actually Antoine's weight was fine.  Now I don't have links handy right now, but there was even an article on the topic at the time in which medical doctors were questioning the wisdom of Riley having one set standard for everyone on the team since different players have different body types, but naturally the media ignored that side of the story and ran with the Toine-bashing pieces as usual... And of course, the blatant hypocrisy since it was clear that Shaq was not meeting this inane standard either.  But sadly, now ever since that time people are quick to call Antoine 'FAT", making the jokes about how Antoine needs to lay off the white castle, etc.  But heck, if you held Big Baby Davis to that same standard, there is no darn way the guy would ever see the court.

    http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/antoine-up-heats-walker-yapped-not-kidnapped-in-chicago

    There is absolutely nothing fat about Antoine Walker here.  

    As for a recent link on Antoine?  Yeah, good luck with that one.  The Boston Globe just loves to run the long stories on Antoine's money troubles, but obviously won't devote equal time to Antoine's incredible progress in getting into phenomenal shape (in my judgment, likely outworking 95% of the league this summer).  If you don't know people who are there or if you aren't following twitter, I guess I can see why people would just say he's 300 lbs and done.  Media blackout on positive pro-Antoine coverage, but I'll let everyone know if I ever come across a story on Toine's recent progress. 

    But yeah, I think that Antoine has overachieved in his career and I explain why in the other thread.  It seems to me that a lot of people think Antoine has come up short, and subsequently hold this against him and judge him by a different standard compared to how someone like Robert Horry is judged.   
     
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    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players : Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take a cheap shot at Big Baby just for the heck of it, I like the guy a lot.  But c'mon, in game 5 against Orlando I think it was when he was concussed and made the valiant effort to get up, it was made even easier to see when he was laying there on his back.... that wasn't muscle in his midsection friend, it made it even more obvious how much lard the guy  
    Posted by toineson[/QUOTE]

    you're nuts.  i'm not one of the peeps saying twon goes 3 bills.  never was.  but you are teeing off on davis just to take a cheap shot at him.  davis has done nothing but hustle, hustle and hustle to the point where he outhustles 90% of the skinniest guys in the league to get to the ball, make a play, etc.

    to pick on davis when he was knocked out by a dwight howard cheap elbow is nuts.  if he was a tub of lard then he wouldn't have come back (note: marcheese daniels got a cussion in the same game and was out for a LONG TIME) the NEXT game and get 6 points and 8 rebounds in bench duty- absolutely critical play, and tough as nails play.

    but fine- go ahead and throw riley's suspension of twon and posey out- twon has his share of weight issues outside of that.  each year in boston he showed up a little more heavy at the start of camp.  everyone who was a celts fan during the period knows it.  maybe he worked some off during the regular year but he shouldn't have showed up like that. 

    there is no comparision between he and davis because davis has not done that and if anything has shown a progression of putting his weight problems behind him rather than growing them as time went on.

    and twon in minnesota was definitely a heavier player than ever before.  he didn't look good.  i asked about twon links and articles because i assumed you had some.  if your sports news starts and stops with boston globe then you have a small world.  almost nothing i ever read emanates from this site as an original story. 

    so how do you know that twon weighs 220 or even less than 245 right now and what teams is he working out for?    you're the one throwing the numbers around.  to me, the numbers do not matter, but what kind of shape someone is in.  that's why a player like davis does not bother me.  he's in good physical condition and all he's done since getting into the league is work on getting in even better physical condition.
     
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    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players : you're nuts.  i'm not one of the peeps saying twon goes 3 bills.  never was.  but you are teeing off on davis just to take a cheap shot at him.  davis has done nothing but hustle, hustle and hustle to the point where he outhustles 90% of the skinniest guys in the league to get to the ball, make a play, etc. to pick on davis when he was knocked out by a dwight howard cheap elbow is nuts.  if he was a tub of lard then he wouldn't have come back (note: marcheese daniels got a cussion in the same game and was out for a LONG TIME) the NEXT game and get 6 points and 8 rebounds in bench duty- absolutely critical play, and tough as nails play. but fine- go ahead and throw riley's suspension of twon and posey out- twon has his share of weight issues outside of that.  each year in boston he showed up a little more heavy at the start of camp.  everyone who was a celts fan during the period knows it.  maybe he worked some off during the regular year but he shouldn't have showed up like that.  there is no comparision between he and davis because davis has not done that and if anything has shown a progression of putting his weight problems behind him rather than growing them as time went on. and twon in minnesota was definitely a heavier player than ever before.  he didn't look good.  i asked about twon links and articles because i assumed you had some.  if your sports news starts and stops with boston globe then you have a small world.  almost nothing i ever read emanates from this site as an original story.  so how do you know that twon weighs 220 or even less than 245 right now and what teams is he working out for?    you're the one throwing the numbers around.  to me, the numbers do not matter, but what kind of shape someone is in.  that's why a player like davis does not bother me.  he's in good physical condition and all he's done since getting into the league is work on getting in even better physical condition.
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    Easy partner.  Notice how YOU and the OP are the ones who decided to take cheap shots at Antoine for his weight.  My point is that we have no room to go there as Celtics fans because Big Baby then easily becomes a casualty of this discussion.  And yes, if Big Baby had been a member of the 06-07 Miami Heat, there is no way he passes the body fat % test.  You really want to refute that?  Dude is legitimately listed in the 290 to 310 1bs range, you think that's all muscle? 

    And when have I called out Big Baby's hustle?  Help me out here.  Toine was heavy at camp?  Sorry, but if you are undersized, don't have great arm length or leaping ability and are still expected to play the PF, you better not be coming in at 225.  If you want to dispute my view that Toine is a classic tweener, then please do so on my other FA thread where I spell it all out for everyone, I don't care to repeat myself.  But really, if you want to question Toine's conditioning from his Boston days then we need to state the facts; he was one of the most durable players in the league and regularly would play in 82 or 81 games, sometimes even leading the league in minutes and obviously played hurt.  You just can't consistently pull that off if you're not in shape.  I can only imagine all of the enduring cheap shots that people would be making about Antoine if he had been the one to injure his thumb in some silly off-court scrap.  But hey I'm glad you choose to focus on the positives Baby gives us instead of knocking him.  I just find it amusing that you are ripping on Antoine's weight and not noticing the hypocrisy in defending BBD on this point. 

    if your sports news starts and stops with boston globe then you have a small world.

    I single them out because, if you recall, they ran the long article on Antoine's money problems back in Oct 2009, and have decided to not devote similar length to Antoine's comeback.  They have a long record of taking "cheap shots" at Antoine, and it would be a bit shocking to see them give some positive press about his recent hard work. 

    The May 30 article in the Louisville Courier Journal is really the only media that decided to cover the Antoine story and the AP gave maybe 2 paragraphs to it (the link is archived now and you have to pay to see it as I've mentioned previously).  Did you read that Courier Journal article?  Do you follow Nazr Mohammed's summer schedule (and by extension, Antoine's)?  Probably not and that's fine, but that's rich of you to essentially question my credibility or propensity to inhabit a "small world" when you are the one that isn't up to speed on things on this topic all because there isn't a feature story by a major newspaper or website.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from basketbert. Show basketbert's posts

    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    Toineson, I think you ARE toine...;-)
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from toineson. Show toineson's posts

    Re: Nostalgia for former players

    In Response to Re: Nostalgia for former players:
    [QUOTE]Toineson, I think you ARE toine...;-)
    Posted by basketbert[/QUOTE]

     Laughing
     

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