Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    1) that young ref was a real winner.  in the jake o'donnell "fans came to see me" mold.

    2) the celts have not figured out how to use jeff green.  this should have been accomplished by now.

    3) our offense is miserable right now.  i know it's the late season doldrums but i've never seen so many careless dumb passes in my life- that shouldn't happen even against the wizards.

    4) our half court sets are impotent.  the wizard, not known to be a defensive team, gave us fits in our boring predictable half court sets most all the night, whenever they decided to try on D. 

    5) this team needs to hurry up on the tempo, as in do hurry ups before the other defense is set.  we have some nice pieces to do this with.  unfortunately jeff green never gets the ball even though he runs the floor.  also, when ray is inside the coffin for shooting %, doc has to have the epiphany that maybe it's a GOOD IDEA to play both delonte and rondo at the same time to get some fast break mojo going. 

    I really don't know.  As the Celts have struggled, Doc has been exposed as a very incredibly mediocre coach once again.  He's come up with zero solutions, no changing up on anything, continue to under-utilize green, never used wafer properly, and delonte is not used enough still yet.  The playoffs are going to be hard to watch UNLESS this team gets back to the vets hitting on all cylinders pretty quickly.  Which they may do given a couple of games under their belts.

    But my point is that we have an entire bench of starter quality players and Doc is getting nothing out of them.  We need more Green and West, get innovative, play a little small ball to kill some time late in the season and run the freakin pants off of some teams.  Give some people like Davis, who is obviously hurt, some rest.  Small ball with Green at the 4, Delonte, Wafer runing too could really blow some points onto the board.  What do we see from Rivers?  Nothing.  Hands in pockets as he drains the life out of the Old 3.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickFaldo. Show NickFaldo's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    I've disagreed with some of your posts in the past. I think ones having to do with Perk and Rondo, not sure. But you hit the nail on this one. Doc gets away with so much mediocre coaching because he's a public relations genius. It's his fault we're not easily ahead of both LA and Miami. It's his fault Jeff Green hasn't been fully integrated by now into the rotation.

    Danny will take a lot of heat, if the O'Neals don't pan out well for the playoffs. But if they do, and we still come up short, it will be all Doc's fault. Ray Allen has defied the physics of age. Yet here we are a few weeks away from the games that matter, and he has been completely run into the ground. It appears Paul may be joining him. Doc's been brilliant preserving KG, not so much Paul, and clearly not with Rondo and especially Ray.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Both of you great posts. The issue of Green defies logic .  This kid is the hope of the team in the playoffs, a one on one player who should be in there when the offense stalls.  I was incredulous last night when I saw he only played 19 minutes or so again.

    Doc seems to think he has to go with his starters but Green is a starter sitting on the bench.  The points he scores are within an offense that still does not run plays for him in which he usually he is a third or fourth option.  This lack of use is a serious cloud over the playoffs as Ainge meant to use him a lot more. He had to have. 

    They utilize Kristic more than Green.   Green should play 35 to 40 minutes in these end of season games.  What is Doc waiting for.  I would even have Green try covering Derrick Rose  if we see them again in the playoffs.  He runs like a gazelle.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickFaldo. Show NickFaldo's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Doc had some plausible deniability not using Nate more during last season since Nate wasn't too consistent. He has no such excuse for not maximizing Green. Good point Concord about Doc doing much better with using Krstic. However, I think Doc makes good calls like that when he has no other choice. We won a game earlier in the season when Erden put up a strong 41 minutes. But was that Doc using imagination or was he simply doing what even us armchair coaches would have done?

    My fear is that Doc will go too much with the Big Baby route if the chips fall bad with the O'Neals. Troy Murphy has been a huge disappointment, but his height makes him much more useful than Baby as a big. People make fun of Scalabrine, but Scal simply due to height is a better big than Big Baby for defense.

    Maybe Glen is hurt, and I'm being too harsh. I think he's the same height as Pierce. I think he's put on weight the last couple months. Big Baby scares me. I'd rather have Jeff Green playing power forward than him. Or maybe Krstic could do that. I don't get where Glen Davis is a better player than either of them. Sure Green leaves a lot to desire for defense. But so did Von Wafer and Ray Allen before they became Celtics. Speaking of which, how come Von Wafer isn't getting any action while Ray obviously seems in need of a day or week off? Why was Arroyo on the bench and Wafer in street clothes against the Bulls? How come Danny loves Doc so much, when Doc never adjusts to trades and draft picks made by Danny?

    Doc was perfect for 2008. That's because Pierce and KG were in the last year of their primes. It would have been an even easier road to #17 if Ray hadn't been coming off his ankle surgery. Thankfully Perk and Rondo played over their heads, and we also had Posey, Eddie, and PJ Brown.

    I'm glad more posters are emerging who speak truth to Doc. Myself and Mooltrikon are on the same page with this. He used to post on this forum. We both feel Doc shows little imagination as a coach and is unable to fully utilize the complete roster. I think maybe Doc took Bill Simmons' criticism too much to heart from many years ago. Simmons said Doc used too much of the roster. I'm glad Doc is willing to grow as a coach, but he seems to have taken that too far the other way. Now he is not using enough of the players on the roster. He got away with it in 2008, because the Big Four were that good. If we win #18 this year, I think it will be despite Doc Rivers. I'm hoping Doc can be the proverbial blind squirrel who finds an acorn.
     
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    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    In Response to Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......:
    [QUOTE]Both of you great posts. The issue of Green defies logic .  This kid is the hope of the team in the playoffs, a one on one player who should be in there when the offense stalls.  I was incredulous last night when I saw he only played 19 minutes or so again. Doc seems to think he has to go with his starters but Green is a starter sitting on the bench.  The points he scores are within an offense that still does not run plays for him in which he usually he is a third or fourth option.  This lack of use is a serious cloud over the playoffs as Ainge meant to use him a lot more. He had to have.  They utilize Kristic more than Green.   Green should play 35 to 40 minutes in these end of season games.  What is Doc waiting for.  I would even have Green try covering Derrick Rose  if we see them again in the playoffs.  He runs like a gazelle.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    Ring a ding ding!!!  Exactly- you trade away Perkins, a surmountable loss, but to MAKE IT WORK, you have to get prime stuff out of Jeff Green and all he has done is shown that he can make fabulous contributions to this team, he's young, fast, needs to improve on the boards but we can use the young and fast and get a lot out of him.

    Crock Blithers can't get anything out of Green playing him sub 20 minutes for time and Green's skills are being wasted.  If we can utilize Krstic and get just about every ounce out of him he has, which is great, WHY CAN"T WE GET SOMETHING OUT OF GREEN who has even more skills relatively speaking.

    It's getting out of hand how Doc mismanages this minute spread with almost everyone.  If they are going to keep this old core next year, Doc has to go.  He shows zero ingenuity.  Ray should have been converted to sixth man STARTING AT THE LATEST this year.  Imagine a starting line up with a fresh breath of air of Jeff Green at the 3 and Pierce at the 2?  Or throw Wafer out there for 20 minutes a night.  Or Daniels when we had him.  Doc hasn't used ANY of these pieces adequately and now include Delonte and possibly Murphy (why did he disappear in this holocaust of big men?!) too.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Faldo- you went overboard.  Davis is a useful player.  He is light years better than Scalabrine and here's why: Davis, regardless of his messed up knee right now, can BODY OUT big guys- Duncan, Howard, Bynum, you name the biggest strongest guys in the league and DAvis can get them off their sweet spot.

    Davis does fall flat vs. quicker 4's but does well against a good amount of 5's. 

    So that's where Davis is better than Green, Murphy and everyone else on the C's except Shak for sheer strength. 

    Also, when Davis' game is on, and it has not been "on"- but when it is, he is a unique offensive player that can draw fouls from his post game (he should do this more), slash to the basket, hit jumpers more than decently %age-wise, and has GREAT hands and above average passing for someone his size.

    There is something wrong with him right now.  Limited explosiveness, probably due to the tendinitis.  If Doc was SMART, he'd be running T R O Y  M U R P H Y right now instead of Davis and letting Davis heal up for the bang and grind of the playoff half court game.

    But this is screwy talk because Doc is not a smart coach.  He's proven it time and again this year and in past years running Ray to death, now Rondo is showing wear and PIerce looks pooped too.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Von Wafer had shown in spots what he could be.  He is a very good three point shooter, very strong going to the basket and much improved defensively.  He should be playing minutes sharpening up for the playoffs if healthy.

    Doc has not even used Wafer when he was healthy.  He is exactly what we need at times to get the three line open.  Ray, Paul, Wafer, and West could be in at times as Orlando and a litany of other teams use the three point line in spurts during a game. We will never do it but that is why you see Ray and Paul struggling to get open three point shots out there.  We do not put enough guys out there to exploit it.
     
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    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    In Response to Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......:
    [QUOTE]Von Wafer had shown in spots what he could be.  He is a very good three point shooter, very strong going to the basket and much improved defensively.  He should be playing minutes sharpening up for the playoffs if healthy. Doc has not even used Wafer when he was healthy.  He is exactly what we need at times to get the three line open.  Ray, Paul, Wafer, and West could be in at times as Orlando and a litany of other teams use the three point line in spurts during a game. We will never do it but that is why you see Ray and Paul struggling to get open three point shots out there.  We do not put enough guys out there to exploit it.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    yep, we have ALL of the tools present to mix this team up with a great mixture of speed and the old guys.  we have a bench unit that should be able to go small ball and blow the doors off of any team in the league. 

    why this angle has not been developed lies totally in the brain dead mush of doc rivers.  he really isn't a coach, he's a chaperone.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Well, Acie, that's a lot of posting about Doc.  I disagree with you.

    On the overall observations, I agree about the ref.  Amazing.

    Yes, the offense is pretty bad.  I think there's too much Rondo dribbling and not enough team ball movement.

    Jeff Green hasn't responded as well as I'd like, but he'll be ok.  He doesn't play good defense and that's why he doesn't get more minutes.  Also, he is a black hole like Marquis was.  Give him the ball and he takes a long time to try backing down low and all stops.  Its like any "one man team" offense at that point.  That's why Doc won't run that play too often, IMO.  Green has to learn to move the ball faster if he doesn't have a shot and use that move as a last resort, only.

    As for Doc, let's see.  Where do I start? 

    1. Shaq has been out most of the year.
    2. JON has been out most of the year.
    3. Perk was out most of the year.
    4. When Perk came back, Danny traded him away.
    5. The team was "hurt" and chemistry went to hell when Perk was traded.  His point guard pouted and the team lost its inside defensive presence.
    6. Rondo and KG both missed several weeks in the season.
    7. His back up guard (Delonte West) missed most of the season.
    8. Semih was hurt with the bad shoulder every other game.
    9. Danny drafted a back up guard who was a shooting guard and not a point guard (Bradley) and he played like a scared rabbit.
    10.Every team gives the Celtics their best when we come in town, wanting to kick our butts because we talk too much trash.
    11. We are older than all of our rivals - the Lakers, Bulls, Magic, and Heat are all younger and either more athletic or taller, especially when ALL of our centers are missing for the season.
    12. with the trades, Doc has to try to work on HCA, work on resting the starters, teach the new guys defense and the offense, and nurse a team that's clearly pissed about the change in its makeup.
    13.  I haven't mentioned what happened with Nate Robinson's play, Wafer's injury, or Marquis Daniels' injury.
    14. Doc's assistant coach who knows the inside of his team is now coaching his rivals - so he loses talent on his team and that talent is used against him.


    Now - through all of that, The Celtics battle for the 3rd best record in the league and most of the season - the second best record in the league.  The team wins the championship the first year, almost beat the Magic (game 7) in the year KG is hurt); go to Game 7 of the playoffs last year, beat the team with the best record in the league last year - stopping the one player team and embarrassing the Magic AND the Cavaliers.   He teaches this raw point guard called Rondo to play the game and become an allstar (even though he has NO jump shot).   his team LOVES him and will follow him anywhere - begging him to come back to coach them.

    And what's his reward for all that success and all those challenges and getting his team to battle for 3rd best record with a complete makeover of his bench after the all start game (look at it - the bench is COMPLETELY different with only BBD (part time starter) there all the time)???   Its you saying that he is a so so mediocre coach?  Really?

    Think about the challenges that Thibs faced.  Think of the challenges that Phil Jackson faced.  Think of the challenges that Pop faced.  Have any of them had NEARLY the injuries, team make up, trades and remaking of the team mid season, or age to deal with?????   We have the same record at the Lakers and Heat and we've had 5 times the injuries.  Bulls had 1 major injury for half the season and a bunch of young guys along with the likely league MVP.....and we are within 3 games of them.

    You and I read that differently.  You read it and say how terrible Doc is.  I read it and say "WOW, that's an AMAZING job!!".  Give the Lakers, Bulls, Heat, or Spurs that challenge and tell me they would be where we are now!  NO WAY!   I give Doc huge credit for holding it together when the players are exasperating and when Danny + injuries have pulled the rug out from under him.

    Doc is like any CEO - he build the coaching team and he ran it and he made them work together.  Thibs is really good, but he has NEVER had the challenges Doc has had to take on. 

    Doc won't be back next year - its just too frustrating for him.  And when he leaves, the fans here will be looking back saying "but when Doc was here.....".

    You only miss the water when the well runs dry, huh?  You'll miss Doc when he's gone. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Nobody said we won't miss Doc.  I will, but he is not trying to find new ways to help the team's offensive effectiveness. 

     I also disagree on Green, if you have watched lately you would see he really can play defense and block shots.  His holding the ball on offense is due to the fact that he is usually a third or fourth option being asked to bail out the offense when they already failed to get a good shot and the clock is running down. He needs to a be a focal point of the offense. Ray is not getting good shots and is usually passing out of desperation.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Well Concord - we're watching a different game.  When Green (who I love because I am a HUGE Georgetown fan and I watched the kids for 3 years) gets the ball, there's plenty of time on the clock.  Watch next time and see.

    Jeff is a very heady ballplayer, but the knock on him at Gtown and at OKC was that he was not aggressive.  He's too passive.

    Blocked shots are like Rondo's steals.  They are not always a sign of good defense.  They are "help" defensive moves but on the ball, Jeff's D has been horrid.  he let's his man go by him and he fouls a lot.  Check his fouls per minute and you'll see what I mean.

    Again, I love Jeff.  I'm glad we got him.  I hope we resign him.  I think he will be VERY valuable int he future.  But, his minutes are limited because he is learning the system - both offense and defense.

    On Doc, let's agree to disagree.  I think he plays Ray way too much but on offense, I think he's trying to get Rondo prepared for the playoffs and I think he's one of the best play callers in the game.

    Last point....YOU may admit you'll miss DOC, but Acie is not nearly as balanced in his view as you are. 
     
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    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Troy Murphy got some minutes against Washington and looked good on both sides of the ball. With Baby floundering, Murphy could take a run for his spot if Doc manages for talent and contribution and relative health over loyalty to the player (which is his fall back position, AND why I think Doc is still crying in his bear over Perk).
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    I dont know about Doc.. he seems to contradict himself alot.

    1. Hes been known to say he will limit the Big3's minutes no matter what... but a look at the box scores says different.

    2. Health is his #1 priority.... see #1

    3. The inequity of limiting some of his players minutes for not doing their job defensively while others play defense like a swung open barn door and still get their 35-40 mins.

    4. Calling out & ragging some of his players (non Big4s) on the court for all to see during timeouts for mistakes and carelessness while others play lackadasical, sloppy, head-not-in-the-game ball that gets handled with kid gloves...

    5. Not playing the hot hand.. this has an argument on both sides but when the team is playing well, being led by player "X", DOc has no problem pulling him out and reinserting the starter who was partially responsible for digging the hole the team was in..  Is playing his scripted playbook the sign of good coaching or inflexability and stubborness?

    6. Players that have done well, apparently earning more minutes being forgotten about.

    Eh, theres a laundry list on both sides of the coin with Doc... with all the things that bug me, think of what hes had to overcome the last 2 seasons.. all the injuries has made coaching & developing the team impossible.  The trades set the team back  both in chemisrty and learning curve...  What about the disappoint of players like Nate??

    When its all said and done... the coach always gets the credit or blame for the team...

    2008 - We win a championship

    2009 - ECF loss (w/o KG) which went to game 7,

    2010 - Game 7 of finals w/o Perk, a 75% KG and biased, cheating m************ refs

    2011 - 2nd or 3rd seed in East after suffering devastating injuries all season

    What was it I was saying about the coach taking the credit/blame??

    My old wrestling coach told me once.... talking about how he caught me hiding in the entrance of the school while the team was running laps and I was waiting for them to come around for the second lap (where I would sneakily jump back in ...

    after winning a big match for the team he said about my hiding incident...

    "Well, you cant argue with success"





     
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    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    In Response to Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......:
    [QUOTE]Doc had some plausible deniability not using Nate more during last season since Nate wasn't too consistent. He has no such excuse for not maximizing Green. Good point Concord about Doc doing much better with using Krstic. However, I think Doc makes good calls like that when he has no other choice. We won a game earlier in the season when Erden put up a strong 41 minutes. But was that Doc using imagination or was he simply doing what even us armchair coaches would have done? My fear is that Doc will go too much with the Big Baby route if the chips fall bad with the O'Neals. Troy Murphy has been a huge disappointment, but his height makes him much more useful than Baby as a big. People make fun of Scalabrine, but Scal simply due to height is a better big than Big Baby for defense. Maybe Glen is hurt, and I'm being too harsh. I think he's the same height as Pierce. I think he's put on weight the last couple months. Big Baby scares me. I'd rather have Jeff Green playing power forward than him. Or maybe Krstic could do that. I don't get where Glen Davis is a better player than either of them. Sure Green leaves a lot to desire for defense. But so did Von Wafer and Ray Allen before they became Celtics. Speaking of which, how come Von Wafer isn't getting any action while Ray obviously seems in need of a day or week off? Why was Arroyo on the bench and Wafer in street clothes against the Bulls? How come Danny loves Doc so much, when Doc never adjusts to trades and draft picks made by Danny? Doc was perfect for 2008. That's because Pierce and KG were in the last year of their primes. It would have been an even easier road to #17 if Ray hadn't been coming off his ankle surgery. Thankfully Perk and Rondo played over their heads, and we also had Posey, Eddie, and PJ Brown. I'm glad more posters are emerging who speak truth to Doc. Myself and Mooltrikon are on the same page with this. He used to post on this forum. We both feel Doc shows little imagination as a coach and is unable to fully utilize the complete roster. I think maybe Doc took Bill Simmons' criticism too much to heart from many years ago. Simmons said Doc used too much of the roster. I'm glad Doc is willing to grow as a coach, but he seems to have taken that too far the other way. Now he is not using enough of the players on the roster. He got away with it in 2008, because the Big Four were that good. If we win #18 this year, I think it will be despite Doc Rivers. I'm hoping Doc can be the proverbial blind squirrel who finds an acorn.
    Posted by NickFaldo[/QUOTE]


    Interesting comments re Rivers. Weren't there similar complaints made about KC Jones during his time as Celtics coach. He certainly only seasons the bench seemed to be used to any great effect was '84 and '86. And mainly getting by because he was a "veterans" coach.

    Not sure what to make of Rivers, and after he's retired will be the best time to really look at his career at Boston. However I think he's been a good coach. Not great but good.

    Posey, Eddie House had very good years for Boston in '08. And PJ Brown was the best mid season FA acquisition in this era.  Very strong team that one.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    1) that young ref was a real winner.  in the jake o'donnell "fans came to see me" mold.

    It seems in most games the Celts are dished 3-4 REALLY bad calls... FT's may be fair, we may win, but someone we get hosed in momentum turning calls that allow teams like Atlanta to be down 8 instead of 16 entering the 4th or a team like Washington to not be blown out by 20+ aloowing more rest for our starters.

    2) the celts have not figured out how to use jeff green.  this should have been accomplished by now.

    VERY true, and a shame. It seems they have started to see the mismatch opportunities of him on 3's, esp 2nd team 3's. He has that jump hook and some good moves by the rim. Too often he just drifts around watching.

    They need to have him on a 'speed' team with Rondo, DWest, Pierce and KG a few mins a game and see if that unit, with 4 excellent passers, 2 guys who can finish with oops and  3 who can finish with authority can run clubs off the court. That should be his only 6-10 mins at PF, and not in the 4th quarter which shaq should start and Baby finish. Green likes 3's and is ok at them, a la Posey. Give him 2-3 a game and assume he hits 1. Keep him involved. Green needs those Pose balls to make the 3 count.

    He should get another 22-24 mins at SF. Letting Pierce get a few extra mins on the bench and play like 8-12 mins at SG. The DWest-Pierce-Green-Baby-JON 'bench' quintet is another I'd want to see. On D JON defends the rim. Baby bodies a lighter PF out of comfort zones and hustles. Jeff swallows up a shorter SF, Pierce bangs a smaller SG and even if he gets burned a few times he'll gobble up rebounds and score more than he gives up. DWest does his aggressive thing. Then on Offense DWest intitiates (give the ball to Pierce wait for kickout, nail 3's or drive and calmyl drain 17 footers like he's so good at), PP and Green can both take down and bully smaller players and Baby and JON can decide who hits weakside glass and who waits to nail a 15 footer.

    Sigh... I think the playoffs might see those things come to fruition.

    If we cannot find the BEST ways to utilize his talent we still MUST get this:

    Green making his presence felt simply by hitting 40% of his open outside shots, getting the 2 baskets per on the block vs. shorter bench 3's, playing 110% his absolute BEST defense on SF's like Deng/LBJ/Thaddeus Young, making ONE clutch block, steal, 3 and demoralizing dunk a game and hitting the boards hard when it is clear his # won't be called on offense or when he is in the game w/ grounded BBD or ragdoll Kristic.

    If he lets Ray/Pierce only have to log 33-37 playoff mins... while giving us 24-27 mins, 13 points, 4 rebounds, 1 block/steal/assist and going 50% FG, 35% 3FG, 85% FT's... with max effort, we'll be more than doing ok. That is what Posey gave us.


    3) our offense is miserable right now.  i know it's the late season doldrums but i've never seen so many careless dumb passes in my life- that shouldn't happen even against the wizards.

    The offense will be ok IMO. They are trying things out and feeling their way around while still making sure they won the recent games vs. Wash and Philly. The Bulls game will be far diff if/when we see them in the playoffs. Green/Pierce will play much better on Deng. Rondo will not let let himself be humiliated as badly and the O'Neal brothers will contribute. It will be playoff basketball. We played them even th emiddle 20 mins of that game and then sloppy ball and their crowd/crazy shots/intensity vs. our cold shooting and lack of toughness won it for them. That won't be the case in May.

    Ray will hopefully not be cold either. Nothing bugs me more than games we are consistantly down 8-12 that Ray has only gotten 7-8 shots in thru 3 quarters and made 2 of them. Even when not the focal point you gotta get Ray 13-17 shots a game and 6-7 3's. To win against the elite we'll need Ray Allen going at least like 3-8 on 2's and 2-5 on 3's and 2-2 at the line. Thats 14 points. We get 6-10 2's, 4-7 from 3 and 3-3 at the line... we don't lose those 25 point Ray games.


    Rondo better have a 4-1 assist to TO ratio playoffs or we are doomed. Last years team was worse at the end of the year, more careless even, then turned up the intensity and protected the ball. Still, they lose playoff games when they didn't and needed to be better in the end. We need to be better this year than we were last year for sure. All our challengers are better.

    4) our half court sets are impotent.  the wizard, not known to be a defensive team, gave us fits in our boring predictable half court sets most all the night, whenever they decided to try on D. 

    This is why we need to run more fastbreaks with Rondo/Dwest/Pierce/Green/KG and more halfcourt sets with Pierce/Green on the court together to bully smaller wings.

    When Shaq is back in spurts (and I mean small 4 mins spurts 3x a game) we know that he will get an easily layup and a board in each of those spurts, going like 4-6 from the field, 1-2 at the line and getting 3-4 rebounds a block in his 12-14 mins.

    Right there we should have 8-10 mins of a 10 sec or less running lineup, 10-12 mins of a Shaq unit we haven't really seen since December (and were an out of this world +18 with), and another 8-12 mins of DWest/Pierce/Green beat up on smaller bench guys unit.

    That leaves just 3-5 mins for the 'deep bench' unit of DWest-Ray-Green-Baby-Kristic. Then when we get 'predictable' again with Baby and the 4 all-stars it will only have to be for maybe two stretches totaling 12-16 mins per game, maybe the end of both halves. We get crisp ball where we find the hot hand(s), Ray for curl 3's or KG corner 18 footers, or Pierce ISO's. Dominate and close out games in the 4th quarter. That unit is an incredible +14 this season.


    5) this team needs to hurry up on the tempo, as in do hurry ups before the other defense is set.  we have some nice pieces to do this with.  unfortunately jeff green never gets the ball even though he runs the floor.  also, when ray is inside the coffin for shooting %, doc has to have the epiphany that maybe it's a GOOD IDEA to play both delonte and rondo at the same time to get some fast break mojo going.

    100% agree. Ray needs his shots of course. But if he is an awful 1-5 or 2-6 in the middle of the 2nd quarter in a tight game, we need to go with the small quick backcourt and run Green/KG/Pierce with them for stretches. When you get Ray back in, let him get his confidence back FIRST with a fastbreak or backdoor layup... not a cold off the bench 3.

    I really don't know.  As the Celts have struggled, Doc has been exposed as a very incredibly mediocre coach once again.  He's come up with zero solutions, no changing up on anything, continue to under-utilize green, never used wafer properly, and delonte is not used enough still yet.  The playoffs are going to be hard to watch UNLESS this team gets back to the vets hitting on all cylinders pretty quickly.  Which they may do given a couple of games under their belts.

    Doc has frustrated me as well. What I was most confident about him, and made me feel better about the trade, was his ability to blend personalities, get through adversity and get players to seize the moment have great chemistry and give 100%. I have not seen Rondo, Green and Ray give 100% during long stretches since the trade and great team chemistry overall. Gotta balme the players as well. Nothing less than 'making it work' and being the best they could be with what they had was acceptable.

    I would have said a guy like Doc would be the better personality to get through a trade of a loved vet defensive leader w/ flaws and a contract issue, than, say, Bill Belichick, but when Milloy was traded the team won a SB. Hmmm...

    The O'Neals were a big hope as well. If Shaq had returned at home vs. the Clippers as we thought one month ago, 3/9, and given us just 9 mins 4p-2r-.5b for a week, 11 mins 5p-3r-.75b for a week, 13 mins 7p-4r-1b a week and finally the last week was up to 15 mins 9p-5.5r-1.25b per game, the entire season would be different.

    We went 9-9 in that stretch. A stretch Danny most certainly felt on Feb 24th he'd have had Shaq for 16-17 or so games, at least back by March 14th at home vs. Bucks. With Shaq here even limited to 9-11 mins his first two weeks back, we'd have won 3-6 more games. 4 more wins right now and we are the same 59-20 as Chicago.

    Meanwhile Perk didn't play one game till March 14th. So Danny felt that he'd have gotten Shaq and Perk back at the SAME time. Meanwhile resting an overworked Paul and Ray with that Posey like 6th man (only he assumed better) and getting a C who was an upgrade to Semih would be better short and long term. Semih got hurt 2 game sinto his Cleve career, but had he stayed here and been forced to split the C mins w/ Baby. While Harangody got 8-10 mins behind KG. We'd have been worse off, and devestated if Rondo/Wafer still got hurt. Assuming no injuries we could easily have dropped the Bucks, GState, Clippers and Jazz games without the trade.

    But my point is that we have an entire bench of starter quality players and Doc is getting nothing out of them.  We need more Green and West, get innovative, play a little small ball to kill some time late in the season and run the freakin pants off of some teams.  Give some people like Davis, who is obviously hurt, some rest.  Small ball with Green at the 4, Delonte, Wafer runing too could really blow some points onto the board.  What do we see from Rivers?  Nothing.  Hands in pockets as he drains the life out of the Old 3.

    Agree.

    The best case scenario is to beat Miami today. Then 'rest' some guys, play more atheltic small ball tomorrow, but of a type that matches up well with the Wiz, still beat them when we have our starters in the 4th close it out (but like mins in the 20's for the big 3 and Baby).

    Then we can rest EVERYONE vs. the Knicks.

    C - Kristic (20) JON (16) Murph (12)
    PF - Green (32) Murph (16)
    SF - Pavlovic (28) Wafer (20)
    SG - DWest (28) Wafer(14) Pavlovic (6)
    PG - Arroyo (28) Avery (20)

    * Or start Baby and the 4 all-stars for the paying fans, sit them after 6-8 mins.

    Best thing for us. Wrap up 2 seed and makes sure it is Philly we face. Of course if there is a chance to win that game to finish a game ahead of LA... well... you may want to try and win it. BUT, we are not even making it to the finals without health and rest for all, not risking it vs. chippy Knicks would be wise.

    And a loss will surely mean Philly over NY. I might give up homecourt in the finals just to know that we will be out of the 1st rd in 4-5 and Miami in 6-7, instead of the possiblity that we get NY as a 7th seed if we beat them end of the year and Melo/Amare/Billups go nuts and make it like a Hawks 08/Bulls 09 7 gamer.
    Then get a more rested Heat team in rd 2.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    In Response to Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......:
    [QUOTE]Doc had some plausible deniability not using Nate more during last season since Nate wasn't too consistent. He has no such excuse for not maximizing Green. Good point Concord about Doc doing much better with using Krstic. However, I think Doc makes good calls like that when he has no other choice. We won a game earlier in the season when Erden put up a strong 41 minutes. But was that Doc using imagination or was he simply doing what even us armchair coaches would have done? My fear is that Doc will go too much with the Big Baby route if the chips fall bad with the O'Neals. Troy Murphy has been a huge disappointment, but his height makes him much more useful than Baby as a big. People make fun of Scalabrine, but Scal simply due to height is a better big than Big Baby for defense. Maybe Glen is hurt, and I'm being too harsh. I think he's the same height as Pierce. I think he's put on weight the last couple months. Big Baby scares me. I'd rather have Jeff Green playing power forward than him. Or maybe Krstic could do that. I don't get where Glen Davis is a better player than either of them. Sure Green leaves a lot to desire for defense. But so did Von Wafer and Ray Allen before they became Celtics. Speaking of which, how come Von Wafer isn't getting any action while Ray obviously seems in need of a day or week off? Why was Arroyo on the bench and Wafer in street clothes against the Bulls? How come Danny loves Doc so much, when Doc never adjusts to trades and draft picks made by Danny? Doc was perfect for 2008. That's because Pierce and KG were in the last year of their primes. It would have been an even easier road to #17 if Ray hadn't been coming off his ankle surgery. Thankfully Perk and Rondo played over their heads, and we also had Posey, Eddie, and PJ Brown. I'm glad more posters are emerging who speak truth to Doc. Myself and Mooltrikon are on the same page with this. He used to post on this forum. We both feel Doc shows little imagination as a coach and is unable to fully utilize the complete roster. I think maybe Doc took Bill Simmons' criticism too much to heart from many years ago. Simmons said Doc used too much of the roster. I'm glad Doc is willing to grow as a coach, but he seems to have taken that too far the other way. Now he is not using enough of the players on the roster. He got away with it in 2008, because the Big Four were that good. If we win #18 this year, I think it will be despite Doc Rivers. I'm hoping Doc can be the proverbial blind squirrel who finds an acorn.
    Posted by NickFaldo[/QUOTE]

    Game 3 of the finals killed me last year.

    Down a bucket w/ a few mins to go and can't overcome. Terrible officiating that kept LA ahead for sure, but it never had to come to that.

    Ray was kneed hard in the thiegh early by Artest and was never the same in the series. If Ray had been only guarded by Kobe and/or stayed out of those dangerous lane situations we would have won that game. Ray was 0-8 on 3's and 0-13 overall. Even a below avg Ray goes 1-4/2-5 by the end of the 3rd quarter. We are up 3-4 instead of down 5-7. Ray closes it out 2-4 on 3's w/ the crowd crazy and not scared/flat/angry at refs and 1-2 from the field. Gets an extra 2 FT's last min. 20 points for Ray instead of 2. Celts win by 7 instead of losing by 7.

    Then Ray stays his career 40% from 3 in games 4 and 5... that we won anyhow... but now the refs will be trying harder to extend the series if we won game 3/... but instead of Ray going 0-8 he goes 6-14 instead, we win close games where LA has way more FT's, but we are at home and our crowd is crazy. We raise banner 18 at home after game 5. No Perk injury. No BS refs tainting the sport in game 7 in LA. Just a simple 5 game 4-1 beatdown of a team w/ a hurt Andrew Bynum.

    Then this year LA tries to tie us w/ a healthy team and more motivation and 2 titles each.

    But Doc would have walked away, taken a 2 year hiatus to watch Austin and do national games. Thibbs would be OUR coach, not the Bulls (they get Doug Collins) and the Bulls are a 54-57 win team and we have a healthy Perk all year, Shaq and Sheed split the 82 games as backup C, between injuries and never playing a back to back, but are healthy come playoffs. We keep Tony Allen, add Grant Hill w/ more MLE $, Big 3 avg only 29-31 reg seaosn mins, and Delonte never breaks his wrist.

    We are a 65-68 win team and the 2011 finals is the epic BOS-LA 7 gamer between 2 teams at full strength the league thought it got last year. but the real fans know last years final was tainted by Ray/Sheed/Perk/KG injuries vs. just the Bynum injury and the koME 6-24 gag job MVP that was baile dout by the insane FT disparity handed to the team Stern wnated to win.

    Ah well
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    In Response to Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night....... : Interesting comments re Rivers. Weren't there similar complaints made about KC Jones during his time as Celtics coach. He certainly only seasons the bench seemed to be used to any great effect was '84 and '86. And mainly getting by because he was a "veterans" coach. Not sure what to make of Rivers, and after he's retired will be the best time to really look at his career at Boston. However I think he's been a good coach. Not great but good. Posey, Eddie House had very good years for Boston in '08. And PJ Brown was the best mid season FA acquisition in this era.  Very strong team that one.
    Posted by RUWorthy[/QUOTE]

    Of course if Rivers pulled a Jackson and went to the Heat, won a few titles, he would be rated number one coach in basketball.  Just saying.  Most coaches can win with talented teams. JMO
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickFaldo. Show NickFaldo's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    I like this thread, because you don't see much of these types of comments anywhere in regards to Doc's coaching. Usually whenever someone brings up these points, they get jumped on and accused of being a troll.

    Acie- I probably did go overboard with my criticism of Big Baby. But I picture him the same as Rondo and Ray or I guess Paul, KG, or any other player. If they are hurt, tired, or slumping, they are going to lead the team to losses. I see that happening with Glen Davis. I've also noticed his stomach looks a lot bigger than earlier in the season. On an episode of The Association, it showed Davis chowing fattening foods like there was no tomorrow. I'm not saying Baby needs a minimum of body fat like Ray or Nomar Garciaparra, but he needs to keep it as low as he can. Someone short with stubby arms and no leaping ability is not helping his cause by becoming eating buddies with Bill Parcells and Elvis. Pierce understands this. He has some project to help kids keep weight off. Pierce found the fountain of youth this year because he came back very lean. Baby would be wise to keep his weight down. People have been known to eat their way out of the league.

    RUWorthy- There's nothing more cool that meeting fans of other teams who aren't into silly trash talk. I agree with you that Doc is a good but not great coach. KC Jones might be a good comparison, especially when thinking of Pierce's development over the last four years. If players don't like their coach, the results are probably going to be ugly or underachieving. Bill Fitch was a great strategist and coach, but his personality was simply dreadful. Pitino is a great college coach, but he too is a miserable person.

    The 2008 Celtics were a great all-time team. Most late season pickups are not worthy. PJ Brown was. Also Eddie House was in his prime as was Posey. In a way I feel bad for both the Lakers and Celtics even though they have been winning all the titles the last three years. Bynum was hurt in 2008, meaning there is a what if for that one. With KG's injury, there are major what ifs too for the Lakers recent titles.

    Both teams along with San Antonio are in desperation mode. They realize it is now or never or very close to the last chapter.

    Doc is on fumes worse than Ray Allen. He was the right man at the right time in 2008 like KC was in the 80's. His strategy of using a doghouse sometimes works. I do not like Arroyo and because of Doc, West has emerged, and we don't have to worry about Arroyo getting many minutes in the playoffs. But the doghouse approach can also backfire, as we see with Wafer's disappearance and Ray's calcifying before our eyes. The best thing going for the Celtics is that Doc has been outstanding in his preservation of KG, and Garnett does look close to what he was in 2008, just a couple years older. Pierce is definitely still the truth, and hopefully he will get his second wind for the playoffs. Unfortunately, too much is now riding on the health of the O'Neals. Fortunately, they are strong players, and if they can make it through to the end of the playoffs, the Celtics have to be one of if not the most feared teams to face. Same with Los Angeles despite their recent losing streak.

    Rame- I think the Orlando series is the one that killed us last year. Maybe with Shaq and Jermaine, Howard will think twice of using his dirty tactics, if we face them in the ECF. I don't know how anyone can argue Superman is not a dirty player. Of course Ray getting hurt, then Perk, and finally Sheed's back giving out were the final straws. It was truly remarkable how close we came to winning the title last year. It's going to be a fascinating playoffs. I just wish I had more faith in Doc's ability to react to adversity. If Rondo is catatonic, will he swith to Plan Delonte? I have little hope for the Celtics if the O'Neals and/or Ray are not productive. It's kind of late in the ballgame to integrate Green, Wafer, and various plans B, C, D, and E into the arsenal. Doc's coaching like it's still 2008. So here's hoping that the Big Four will peak at the right time (quite possible perhaps likely), and that the O'Neals, Delonte, and Big Baby can stay healthy. Krstic is good for insurance. Doc has messed up in regards to Jeff Green. I haven't much hope there and don't expect him to be much of a factor in the playoffs.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Rame- I think the Orlando series is the one that killed us last year. Maybe with Shaq and Jermaine, Howard will think twice of using his dirty tactics, if we face them in the ECF. I don't know how anyone can argue Superman is not a dirty player.

    Well yeah not sweeping them was a real blow, we should have, it is annoying that refs can actually decide if a series goes 6-7 or not.

    If sweeping them had given us the rest to beat LA in 5... regardless of minor aches and pains... that hurts.

    Of course Ray getting hurt, then Perk, and finally Sheed's back giving out were the final straws.

    The bigger blows for sure. It was Allen getting hurt and the refs taking the crowd out of it in game 3 that hurt the most of anything to me. We won the finals in game 2 and lost it in game 3.


    It was truly remarkable how close we came to winning the title last year.

    Compared to how we played in Feb-March, yes. Compared to how we played in Nov-Dec, no.

    It's going to be a fascinating playoffs. I just wish I had more faith in Doc's ability to react to adversity. If Rondo is catatonic, will he switch to Plan Delonte?

    Rondo won't be catatonic. But he if he shoot under 40% on his open 17-20 footers and under 70% from the line, thru game 2 of the 2nd rd. doc needs to take him out with 3-4 mins left in favor of DWest. If Doc doesn't do this he could crush the season.

    And Rondo needs to rise to the occasion if that happens. He needs to do EVERYTHING he does best, defend like a bulldog, make steals, run a brilliant fastbreak, get swooping easy layups and towering boards, pinpoint passes to the big 3 in their comfort zones and never turn it over. Knowing it will be in 36 of the first 42 minutes only. And not care.

    But he should get a chance in rd 1 and (knock on wood) games 1-2 at home in rd 2... to hit his FT's and open jumpers... before he is benched at the end.


    I have little hope for the Celtics if the O'Neals and/or Ray are not productive.

    Gotta get Ray some rest... but still the shots... 32 mins of a spry Ray, mno back to backs, getting himself 12-14 shots guaranteed... and hitting like 2-5 3's, 4-8 on 2's and 2-2 at the line is all we need. 16 pts, his good D on Kobe/Wade, all we need. DWest and PP should each get 8m at SG.

    I'd like it if (and assume we will get) JON for 16-20 mins a game. Playing near Perk-like low post D and getting you 5 points, 6 boards and a block a game.

    I'd like (and assume) from Shaq, 8-12 mins a game, small spurts of 3-4 mins per w/ the starters, where he gets 6-7 points, 2-3 rebounds and maybe a big block e/o game.

    Then they can swap roles/mins vs. the two teams we'd need a major shaq revitalization to beat: Orlando and LA. Shaq for 20m, 14p, 7r and a block in 1-2 games in LA (and maybe even like a game 5 or 6 vs. Miami/Chicago) will be needed to win a title.


    It's kind of late in the ballgame to integrate Green, Wafer, and various plans B, C, D, and E into the arsenal.

    Nobody but Delonte, Green, Kristic and the O'Neals need play off the bench in the playoffs (assming we start Baby). Green needs to concentrate on what he does best... post moves on smaaller 3's, make a clutch block/steal/3 per game and play the most intense defense of his career. 11-13 points in 23-27 mins, 3-4 boards, steal/block/assist... tough 16-18 mins of D on James or Deng while Paul rests to guard them with a full head of steam in the 4th. Thats all.

    Doc's coaching like it's still 2008. So here's hoping that the Big Four will peak at the right time (quite possible perhaps likely), and that the O'Neals, Delonte, and Big Baby can stay healthy. Krstic is good for insurance. Doc has messed up in regards to Jeff Green. I haven't much hope there and don't expect him to be much of a factor in the playoffs.

    Agree, obv see above about Green.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Concord, are you watching the game?  Are you seeing Green's defense (fouls and out of position) and his lack of ability to finish in an important offensive sequence?  I think this kid will be a star for the Celts in the future, but right now, he's a little lost.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Observations on the Washingtun Wizzards game last night.......

    Celtsfan,
    I am looking wrong right now.  I hope he finds himself on the defensive end and pushes himself to be more aggressive.

    It is one game but Green needs to start making his presence felt this team needs him badly.
     

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