(offensive) rebounding and the finals

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    It is finals time! Time to look what is important to get to the finals! Doc got a lot of heat (sorry) for not letting the C's crash the (offensive) boards.

    But if I check the stats that seems not to be important. The Heat are the worst rebounding team in the league (while the spurs are below average) and both the Heat and the spurs belong to the worst offensive rebounding teams. OKC is also a bad team on the offensive glass and maybe the would be in the finals if westbrook didn't go down.

    Stats:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/rebounds-per-game/sort/avgOffensiveRebounds/seasontype/2

    Is Doc right and (offensive) rebounding is overated?

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    Interesting point, but Miami is just 15th in defensive rebounding while the Cs are 12th. And there are some pretty bad teams in the top 10 of defensive rebounding.

    And very important: While going for the offensive glass is a direct coaching decision (and the most successful teams seems to have the same strategy as doc), defensive rebounding is not as clear. Of course switching on defensive can hurt, but the capability of the players also plays a major role 

     
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    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    In response to Gasthoerer's comment:

    Interesting point, but Miami is just 15th in defensive rebounding while the Cs are 12th. And there are some pretty bad teams in the top 10 of defensive rebounding.

    And very important: While going for the offensive glass is a direct coaching decision (and the most successful teams seems to have the same strategy as doc), defensive rebounding is not as clear. Of course switching on defensive can hurt, but the capability of the players also plays a major role 




    Miami has James, that is (and the refs) why they are winning no matter what. To get to the finals your team and your players must be very good.

     
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    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    In response to Fields4's comment:

    Miami has James, that is (and the refs) why they are winning no matter what. To get to the finals your team and your players must be very good.



    That is not the point of this discussion.

    The questions is: Is (offensive) rebounding overrated, as a lot of teams have success without beeing a great offensive rebounding team. Spurs and OKC have no James either by the way.

    P.S. In my opinion the "Miami has the refs" argument is overrated as well!

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    It's true that offensive rebounds is overrated.

    However, letting your opponent get 2nd and 3rd chances is what killed the Celtics since 2010.

    The Celts were averaging 42 rebounds per game in 2008 and 2009. But after KG's knee injury in 2009, the Celts suddenly started struggling securing defensive rebounds. That's the main reason why the Celts lost to the Lakers in the 2010 Finals.

    In the 2010 Finals, Pau Gasol got 18 rebounds, 9 of them were offensive rebounds.

    Even last season, the Celtic defense was still very good, but they kept giving the opposing team 2nd and 3rd chances. So getting the defensive stop was all for naught because the Celts couldn't secure the rebound.



    All kidding aside, look at your 2 highlighted posts above. You're saying the main reason the Lakers beat the Celtics was their offensive rebounding... couple that with offensive rebounds is overrated

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

     

     

    It's true that offensive rebounds is overrated.

    However, letting your opponent get 2nd and 3rd chances is what killed the Celtics since 2010.

    The Celts were averaging 42 rebounds per game in 2008 and 2009. But after KG's knee injury in 2009, the Celts suddenly started struggling securing defensive rebounds. That's the main reason why the Celts lost to the Lakers in the 2010 Finals.

    In the 2010 Finals, Pau Gasol got 18 rebounds, 9 of them were offensive rebounds.

    Even last season, the Celtic defense was still very good, but they kept giving the opposing team 2nd and 3rd chances. So getting the defensive stop was all for naught because the Celts couldn't secure the rebound.

     

     



    All kidding aside, look at your 2 highlighted posts above. You're saying the main reason the Lakers beat the Celtics was their offensive rebounding... couple that with offensive rebounds is overrated

     

     

     



    That's because you're not using your common sense.

     

    The Celts couldn't stop the Lakers from getting offensive rebounds, right?

    That means the Celts had a hard time getting those DEFENSIVE rebounds.

    The Celts didn't need to get a lot of offensive rebounds in that Game 7. But the Celts failed to capitalize on Kobe's poor shooting night by allowing the Lakers to get the offensive rebounds.

    KG only had 3 rebounds, 0 offensive rebounds.

    But even if the Celts were not getting offensive rebounds, they were leading at halftime. And the Celts could have had a 15-point halftime lead, instead of just 6, if they secured the defensive rebounds.



    Well, I tried to be civil with you nitwit, waste of time.. You cant even comprehend your own contradiction.  IF not for offensive rebounds, the Lakers dont win the title..  You really have issues btw your ears... enjoy your day here monitoring and responding to everything possible lol

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Clearly the Heat are making up for their not so good rebounding by being very efficient on offense.



    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Clearly the Heat are making up for their not so good rebounding by being very efficient on offense.



    That is true, but isn't that exactly what Doc did with the Cs? Good execution and therefore high shooting % (low rebound totals cause low pace) and pulling back after shooting to keep the shooting % of the opponents low (therefore low offensive rebounds)!

    Obviously this tactic is also used by the Heat, and (at least partly in terms of offensive rebounding) from other teams like the spurs and OKC as well. All this team have huge success with this tactic. Just as the Cs before they got old.


     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    But the Celts were averaging 42 rebounds per game in 2008 and 2009, before KG injured his knee. 



    Interesting, just looked at this stats more carefully. Total rebounds were slightly above average, offensive rebounding was poor, but rebound differential was very good. So slow pace, good excecution and (at least) average defensive rebounding seems to be a good way to start while offensive rebounding is not a measure. Funny: The best offensive rebounding team (total and %) in Denver just fired their coach.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fields4. Show Fields4's posts

    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    In response to Gasthoerer's comment:

    In response to Fields4's comment:

     

    Miami has James, that is (and the refs) why they are winning no matter what. To get to the finals your team and your players must be very good.

     



    That is not the point of this discussion.

     

    The questions is: Is (offensive) rebounding overrated, as a lot of teams have success without beeing a great offensive rebounding team. Spurs and OKC have no James either by the way.

    P.S. In my opinion the "Miami has the refs" argument is overrated as well!




    In my opinion offensive rebounds won't win you many games. Yes, they can be helpful but a defending team has a greater chance to grab a rebound anyway. So you have to make a shot. And as Fierce said the players like James, Wade and Bosh are extremely good at scoring even though the Heat is a poor (offensive) rebounding team. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    Offensive rebounds in the finals: Spurs 6 and Miami 9 --> Very low!

    Miami outrebounds Spurs by 9 (!) and still lose the game, wow.

    Good game by Ray (3-4 from 3-land and 3 critcal FTs), but 2 lucky shots (or lazy plays by Miami?) from the Spurs a halftime (Duncan) and Parker (End) for a big time win for the spurs. 

    I say: Lazy plays by Miami (by Spoelstra for not going big with 0.8 on the shot clock and by James losing concentration after Parker went down) assuming Spurs would not score in this possessions.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fields4. Show Fields4's posts

    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals

    In response to Gasthoerer's comment:

    Offensive rebounds in the finals: Spurs 6 and Miami 9 --> Very low!

    Miami outrebounds Spurs by 9 (!) and still lose the game, wow.

    Good game by Ray (3-4 from 3-land and 3 critcal FTs), but 2 lucky shots (or lazy plays by Miami?) from the Spurs a halftime (Duncan) and Parker (End) for a big time win for the spurs. 

    I say: Lazy plays by Miami (by Spoelstra for not going big with 0.8 on the shot clock and by James losing concentration after Parker went down) assuming Spurs would not score in this possessions.




    Just like i said: you have to make your shots. Parker did it. Smile

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: (offensive) rebounding and the finals


    Update!

    15 offensive boards by the Spurs and only 9 by Miami --> Spurs got blown-out by 19 point which felt like 30. In total Spurs + 8 boards after they won game 1 with -9 boards.

     

     
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