Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another "ATTRTION WONDER" episode

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    Of course DA played the biggest role in our success in 2008... he brought the players in that delivered...  Doc handled them right.... helped bring them together and let them fly.

    Just remember, Doc was in a supporting role imo...  No different than if I walked into an office and was made sales manager of top producers... sure Id make sure they had what they needed and stayed out of their way so they could sell,,, but when their production started fading, thats when you see what youre made of..

    People dont need to be basketball geniuses or have better credentials than the next guy to form a fair opinion... Heck, if you wanna play that game, lets let Phil crown the NBA champ today without playing the games... do you have better credentials than him to dispute??

    This notion of "Magic Johnson said this... he knows more than you therefore you're wrong" is about as ridiculous as it gets..  Everyone here has some basketball background... I played my whole life, was a gym rat (playground rat actually) coached AAU, youth and  HS... Ive also watched many, many games and love observing and isolating players to really get a feel for what they do..  The fact Bob Knight might have a different opinion than mine about something means little... Id sure listen to his and compare to my own, but Im not the type to throw my hands up and say.."your resume is too strong for me to disagree with you""... maybe on neuro surgery but not bb

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    This is a couple of years old:

    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2010/10/12/1746757/nba-coach-power-rankings-phil-jackson-gregg-popovich

    This is from 2012:

    http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/02/power-rankings-the-nbas-10-best-coaches/

    And this is the most current one I could find:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1319614-power-ranking-all-30-nba-head-coaches-heading-into-training-camp/page/31

     

    Rip the sources all you want - but the mission was to find "anyone" who thinks Doc is a good coach.

    Mission accomplished!!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

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    I think Doc Rivers is the most overrated coach in the history of sports!!  If he were even an average coach we would have won the title in 2010. Up 13 mid way in the 3rd, all it would have taken to end it there was a couple of jumpers or a steal and a lay up and it would have been over, but he let Tony Allen and Nate Robinson rot on the bench, as our guys struggled to score the rest of the way!!

     



    Hyperbole much?

     

     

    No, i leave that to you writers!!


     

     



    So in the history or the world in any organized sport you feel that Doc is the most over rated coach ever.

     

    Fascinatiing viewpoint. That carries a lot of weight.

     

     

      Name me one more overrated!!


     

     



    I don't think Doc is rated that high. Why do you? 

     

    You're just going by the 5 guys on the board who say he is great. Throughout the "history of sports" no one would even bring up his name.

     

      Couldn't name one could you?

     

     



    I don't think Doc is a very highly rated coach.

     

    Why do you think so?

     

      That's  a path i don't want to get started down!!


     

     



    then I can't answer your question

     

    To me I don't think anyone of import thinks Doc is a great Coach so its hard to say who is more overrated when I dont think people rank him all that high to begin with.

    If you cant tell me who rates Doc high and why they do then there really isn't any point in talking about your original point.

     

    What does that have to do with answering my question?  What is your interpetation of important?  Unless you're writing a book about "most overrated coaches" and you need my imput, there was never any point in talking about my original point, now was there?

     

     



    I said your comment was hyperbole.  Which it was. Look it up.

     

     

      One man's hyperbole, is another man's truth!!!!  You can look it up, i don't have too, slick!!


     

     



    Cool. then we get back to you explaining how you judge Doc against every other coach in the history of the  world in every sport.

     

    Unless of course you were just using hyperbole.

    Look it up. You need to.

    I'm glad we're cool slick, but how can we get back to me, explaining to you, how i judge Doc, if i never started explaining how i judge Doc to you!!  What would make you think that you're important enough to me, to even want to explain anything to?  If it makes you feel better, call it hyperbole, i won't mind at all. I'm just having a little fun pushing your buttons slick. i hope you didn't get too upset, i wouldn't want you to lose your cool!!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

     


    Acid, try not to make generalizations and show your bias.  I am 60 yrs old and started loving the Celtics in the Bill Russell.  I loved Red because he had first black starting five.  He didn't cater about race but only cared about human beings and winning.  I have seen MANY good and bad coaches and I have a better basis than you as a successful AAU coach who has won at the Nationals.  

     

    let me ask you a question:  do you think Danny's decisions have anything to do with the team's successes and failures or is every success due to someone else and every failure is Doc's fault?

    try to be objective and not emotional, ok?




    i am very objective.  just because i can write a sentence does not mean that i'm emotional.  danny made the decisions to bring together the big 3.  beyond that i have not seen many great decisions.  part of the lynch pin to ray allen deal working for us was that glen davis panned out.  well, he panned out and fled town with doc chasing close behind.  danny could have cooled that whole demented hatred that doc had for davis.  so now the only thing we have to show for the ray allen deal is brandon bass who is over his head, overpaid and overstretched to be a starting OR bench 4 let alone cover the minutes at 5 that davis did.


    let's look at tony allen.  he just wanted a ham sandwich to stay here in boston.  the celts basically offered him nothing.  if you did watch in 2008, you know that w/o tony allen, we don't get past lebron.  he was a crucial defensive cog against both lebron and kobe.  pierce was younger then so we leaned on him a lot.  in the absence of tony allen, we signed marquis daniels to be...  "defensive stopper"???  really?  idiotic talent management.

    then let's move onto clifford ray- another guy who like tony allen bled green.  danny dumped him in a swamp a couple of years ago because ray needed off season foot surgery and had stated that he wanted to continue with the team.  i think the rub was that ray might miss a small portion of the beginning of the next year.  he worked the better part of two years for us in a lot of pain.  he was a very good big man coach.  since ray was dispatched with, not only has our big man fundamentals suffered but WHO IS the big man coach?  armand hill?


    next up nate robinson.  perhaps a bit immature like glen davis.  but what an effective burst of energy he was for up tempo, streak shooting and general fireplug play.  remember how we got rid of him?  he was taking almost negligible salary and was thrown in unecessarily on the perkins trade as if he was a cancer to the team.  robinson has gone on to assimilate in golden state and chicago and be a productive player in both places.  how we handled his dispatching was stupid talent management.  again, with an aging team, you need some young players who can provide a burst, but doc couldn't tolerate any personality of any young guy under age 30 other than jeff green who much of the time can be mistaken for a methadone patient he's so mellow.  and danny let it pass.

    let's see, who's next?  semi erden?  nenad kristic?  darko milicic?  is our team russian-phobic or what the hell is the problem here?  three functional, albeit not great big guys who could eat some minutes at the 5.  here and gone- some of them with nary a game played... because doc wouldn't play them and because danny would not take control of any of the situtations.  we did such a good job selling erden that he was shipped off to cleveland in a meaningless trade that would net us nothing.  kristic and darko walked away.  darko, of the three, is the most baffling case of coach-GM talent mismanagement on a team that desperately needed help at the 5 and darko proved he could do it.

    wait, let's go back to marquis daniels for a second.  when we first got him, i thought, gee, this guy averaged 13 on a decent pacers team and can post up and get to the free throw line.  he'll be good for us!!!  only he wasn't because besides his injury issues, which were not much when he first got here, DOC NEVER GAVE HIM ANY STEADY ROLE.  and danny never mentioned to him what a great idea it would be to run marquis 25 minutes EVERY NIGHT as a dual role 2/3 to keep ray's and paul's minutes down to a reasonable level.

    let's talk about ray allen.  look at how many minutes he played for us.  over 35 minutes almost every year.  ray came to us with high miles on him and needed to be cut back to 28-30 a night after 2008.  only we kept playing him more and more and more.  to the tune of one whole EXTRA SEASON WORTH of playing time.  do you think that might have tapped into his playoff effectiveness and tendency to climb into the coffin as far as being able to hit shots for LONG stretches of time that sometimes lasted into two series???  talent management.  ainge + doc.

    need i say more?  this is not emotional stuff, it's straight facts.  and now we're wearing garnett out like an old shoe.  remember, KG at age 37 is like parish at age 40.  it was all over but the crying.  a disaster waiting to happen if you over used the player that old.  KG has been playing ball now for NINETEEN YEARS.  i like him as a player.  but this is not a formula where he has any chance of having ANYTHING left for the playoffs.  talent management.  ainge + doc.  awful.  letting darko walk away because doc refused to play him after darko proved in the pre season that he could still eat 15-20 mins at the 5.

    it's all really basic stuff my friend.  i've been around longer than you might think.  i was at the triple overtime in 76.  what ANNOYS ME is that this sort of inept coaching and horrendous talent management has not been previously tolerated by the franchise for extended periods of time before that I can remember OTHER THAN the rick pitino debacle.  and no, this is not as bad as that, but unforced errors vs. the extreme incompetency that pitino was- which is worse?!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    Acie, I agree with many of your points but not all.  The point is that your issue seems to be more with Danny than doc......something I agree with.  The coach deals with what he has and has to make the best of it.  Seems to me that our Coach has done the most with a lot of limitations you mention.

    And, please tell me how Doc is wearing KG out?  He is limiting KGs minutes as best he can (30 mins a game!) but again, we have no center.  Again, sounds like a GM problem to me.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

    Acie, I agree with many of your points but not all.  The point is that your issue seems to be more with Danny than doc......something I agree with.  The coach deals with what he has and has to make the best of it.  Seems to me that our Coach has done the most with a lot of limitations you mention.

    And, please tell me how Doc is wearing KG out?  He is limiting KGs minutes as best he can (30 mins a game!) but again, we have no center.  Again, sounds like a GM problem to me.



    you don't get me at all.  it's a double FAIL by ainge and rivers.  ainge has served rivers with lemons and rivers has yet to make lemonade, he loads lemon rinds into the potato guns they shoot t-shirts out of and shots lemon guts at the fans the way he (DOC) arranges our rotations.  it's like someone with ADD or amnesia makes our rotations.  everythings different all the time. 


    jeff green COMES OUT as a starter.  so the obvious thing for doc to do is plant him back on the bench where he obviously does not thrive.  doc is SUCH a player's coach that he never talked ray or paul into being sixth man.  how that?  mchale did it!  maxwell did it!  a first ballot HOF and an arguable contender in max. 

    doc is MURDERING KG RIGHT NOW largely because of what he did earlier in the year by ICING darko out of the country through not playing him.  as a person who had played pro ball for 15 years at age 27, darko wasn't in the mood to ride jets and ride pine so he left. 

    anyone have ANY explanations for that?  THERE was the big man we needed who we could platoon with collins/sullinger/wilcox to fill in the 48 minutes at 5 and PLAY KG AT THE FOUR like he should have been.  that whole experiment of KG at the 5 was a horrible idea.  just smoke and mirrors to cover up for ainge's miserable inability to get us a 5 minute eater after davis was run out of town.  it's really pathetic.  and that's being objective.

    and doc played a big role in pathetic.  i nearly wept when i heard we had "settled" for darko.  but then i figured he put up 7 and 5 with nearly 2 blocks in around 20 minutes in minny and that's GOOD ENOUGH so we'll go with it.  darko confirmed by suspicion that he was willing and able by PLAYING DECENTLY IN THE PRE SEASON.  enter "player's coach" doc rivers to screw that whole darko thing up for the regular season.

    so it's ainge and rivers equally complicit.  each one taking their position to the deepest and utmost level of MORON.  is it really that hard to see?  do we have to go back to the emergence of avery bradley and how the team was uplifted when ray went out and we got BETTER DEFENSE and a FLOOR RUNNER in avery who did not need to run 17 triple pick curls to come free for a last second contested J in our half court set?

    ultimately the responsibility falls upon ainge to manage the operation and i am speechless as to why he's not checked rivers' idiocy at any one of MANY points where we could have corrected the way the ship was sailing.  but in and of himself, rivers is NOT obligated to be a gigantic moron.

    green won't get 31 a night but call me silly- i saw a totally different player as STARTER than i did tonight.  and paul has started enough for this team.  it's time for a "come to jesus meeting", you know- the one they never had with ray until after he was injured and the team went on a rampage.  it's time to expect the same from paul that we did from mchale, maxwell and x mcdaniel- you'll do the greatest good for yourself and the team if you're sixth man.  period.

    now let's sit back and watch it not happen because we have two men with zero combined balls in charge of the place.  and a jock sniffing moron ownership group.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    Twisted facts ....

     

    Tony Allen wanted 3 years and Danny was only doing 2 yr contracts and wouldn't concede and low and behold Memphis offered three yrs ... Our loss.

     

    Clifford Ray was hired because we had young centers needing coaching otherwise he would never had been hired in the first place. Once all the young unschooled were gone who was Ray gonna coach? KG? Wilcox?

    Robinson made the numbers work in the trade and if he's so critical to a team how come he's been with OKC, GS & Chicago since Boston and to date hasn't stuck anywhere?

    Erden was injured and traded to open a roster spot. Kristic was rumored to have indicated he wasn't coming back after his contract were to run out when he was in OKC and yes, Doc didn't help any by not showing any confidence in his game or minutes on the floor. Darko is a more personal story and it's been written about and posted here ... His mom was ill and he'd spendt his entire life playing ball to earn $ for his family and now he just needed to go home.


    No need to distort the facts cause many agree Doc has his shortcomings but to blame Danny for personel moves is not fair ... maybe he can be faulted for not pressing Doc more on utilizing the players he's acquired but short of terminating Doc, what alternatives does he have?

     




    1. i call BS.  the diff b/t 2 years and 3 was nothing.  money wise it was NOTHING.  allen was looking for maybe 3 million per year.  which is NOTHING for what he gave us

     

    2. again, you're crazy wrong.  davis goes away, powe gets injured, and you better believe that WILCOX is a guy who needs to improve rebounding, STEAMER needed a lot of help, DARKO may have NEVER HAD A BIG MAN COACH, krstic was younger than he looked and could have used BIG MAN COACH..  timid on the boards yet a decent player but could have improved.


    3. you are full of crap.  darko's mom became ill AFTER the season started and after doc had iced him out.  does anyone even know if that's true?  why would darko play such decent pre season ball for us and then NOT BE PLAYED AT ALL????  he WANTED TO PLAY and made that known vocally.  so again, your tripe rings hollow


    4. i started becoming wary of danny after the first year.  pj brown was barely enough.  since then we had NO SEASON LONG BACKUP PG for rondo until dooling last year.  we have continuously struggled with dubious big man signings- both o'neals...  used up and then jermaine was mis-used by doc who surgically removed all touches for jermaine on offense in scrimmage so what little game jermaine had atrophied.  check his numbers in PHO this year- his FG%, FT% and PPG and REBS, BS are all WAY UP per minute.  we failed to get as much out of JO as we could have because doc is an idiot.

    4A. once marquis daniels became a walking injury after two years we just kept signing him again and again and failed to get a 2/3 who could eat minutes for ray and paul until pietrus who managed to have a really rotten shooting year while not providing the same type of D that a much older posey did for us in '08.  last year we lucked into steamer and then watched him walk away and got NOTHING to replace him that doc would actually play when the whistle blew.  we had darko but would not play him.  if you can really reconcile that to yourself as "makes sense" then you need help.

    danny has failed at drawing up a supporting cast and worse than that he signed rashizzle wallace for TOO MANY YEARS and the second year overlapped into the NEW CBA and nobody would take his contract as cap bait!!!!  so we rode an ENTIRE YEAR with sheed as the MLE and sheed wasn't in uniform!  unforced error.  and we won't even go into sheed showing up with C cups for training camp the one year he did "play" for us.

    then move onto signing paul pierce for $15M / yr for way too long.  and signing KG @ $11m this year was out of sight.  unless you were going to have STRONG help at the 5 so he would not get worn out.  and then you have the $11M contract come back and bite you b/c you can't afford strong help at the 5 if KG is booking $11M- see how that works?  dumb GM-ing and even worse coaching.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

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    I think Doc Rivers is the most overrated coach in the history of sports!!  If he were even an average coach we would have won the title in 2010. Up 13 mid way in the 3rd, all it would have taken to end it there was a couple of jumpers or a steal and a lay up and it would have been over, but he let Tony Allen and Nate Robinson rot on the bench, as our guys struggled to score the rest of the way!!

     



    Hyperbole much?

     

     

    No, i leave that to you writers!!


     

     



    So in the history or the world in any organized sport you feel that Doc is the most over rated coach ever.

     

    Fascinatiing viewpoint. That carries a lot of weight.

     

     

      Name me one more overrated!!


     

     



    I don't think Doc is rated that high. Why do you? 

     

    You're just going by the 5 guys on the board who say he is great. Throughout the "history of sports" no one would even bring up his name.

     

      Couldn't name one could you?

     

     



    I don't think Doc is a very highly rated coach.

     

    Why do you think so?

     

      That's  a path i don't want to get started down!!


     

     



    then I can't answer your question

     

    To me I don't think anyone of import thinks Doc is a great Coach so its hard to say who is more overrated when I dont think people rank him all that high to begin with.

    If you cant tell me who rates Doc high and why they do then there really isn't any point in talking about your original point.

     

    What does that have to do with answering my question?  What is your interpetation of important?  Unless you're writing a book about "most overrated coaches" and you need my imput, there was never any point in talking about my original point, now was there?

     

     



    I said your comment was hyperbole.  Which it was. Look it up.

     

     

      One man's hyperbole, is another man's truth!!!!  You can look it up, i don't have too, slick!!


     

     



    Cool. then we get back to you explaining how you judge Doc against every other coach in the history of the  world in every sport.

     

    Unless of course you were just using hyperbole.

    Look it up. You need to.

     

    I'm glad we're cool slick, but how can we get back to me, explaining to you, how i judge Doc, if i never started explaining how i judge Doc to you!!  What would make you think that you're important enough to me, to even want to explain anything to?  If it makes you feel better, call it hyperbole, i won't mind at all. I'm just having a little fun pushing your buttons slick. i hope you didn't get too upset, i wouldn't want you to lose your cool!!

     



    Yeah.  you seem really calm. Later boo.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maryngary. Show maryngary's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    Doc Rivers rotations are a joke.

    Everyone plays out of position. Bass is not a 5, Green is not a 4, Terry cannot defend the 2, and Wilcox should be the backup 5.  AND THAT IS JUST PART OF IT, DOC AND RONDO MUST REALIZE WE HAVE A NEW DIFFERENT TEAM AND IN ORDER TO HAVE OUR BEST CHANCE WE MUST HAVE FAITH IN OUR PLAYERS OUSIDE THE OLD BIG TWO.

    It's weird.




     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    Is Doc perfect? No!

    Is DA perfect? No! That was simple.

    But who would be better than these two...mmh... more difficult. And please don't say Pop cause he wasn't available. Just name one coach who was available which we should have hired instead of Doc.

    Again for me the overall facts are:

    1. DA made us the favorite team in 2007! And Doc won a a title with this squad. Mission accomplished.

    2. We never have been the favorite team again since and IMO overachieved each year. That makes Doc look good again and DA not so much but the injuriy problems were bad luck.

    3. Some people claim that the big three and ROndo were responsible for our success in the last years not Doc...but the same people claim:

    a) We are better without Ray and he should have been a bench player since 3 years.

    b) We are better without Rondo.

    c) Pierce is fat and old and should be on the bench as well

    d) KG is overpaid with 11 millions, was over the hill at the beginning of last year and needs also less minutes.

    So in the end: We would have been better without DA, Doc, Ray, Rondo, Pierce and KG. Seems like we really had a lot of luck within the last 5 years. Wow, I'm glad the team is not run by this forum, we would make Michael Jordan look like a great GM.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    In response to Kirk6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Doc Rivers rotations are a joke.

    Everyone plays out of position. Bass is not a 5, Green is not a 4, Terry cannot defend the 2, and Wilcox should be the backup 5.

    It's weird.

    [/QUOTE

     

    Green went for 31 at the 4 Kirk!! Not the 2 the 4!!!

    Terry has been a two for most of his career. he won a title at the 2!!!! 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Oh my stars- Doc avoided doing it all season- another

    In response to jtkl's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Doc Rivers rotations are a joke.

    Everyone plays out of position. Bass is not a 5, Green is not a 4, Terry cannot defend the 2, and Wilcox should be the backup 5.

    It's weird.

    [/QUOTE

     

    Green went for 31 at the 4 Kirk!! Not the 2 the 4!!!

    Terry has been a two for most of his career. he won a title at the 2!!!! 

     



    dont waste your time.

     

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