This article is about Glen Davis but my discussion is about Doc.   What does this say about Doc?

http://www.boston.com/sports/2012/11/25/glen-davis-more-mature-big-baby-trying-lead-orlando-magic-rebuilding-plan/cxStbCq58Z7xKH5GcAffiK/story.html

I think it says, again, that Doc is very clear with his players and very direct with them.  Those who say he babies Rondo - I disagree. Those who say he doesn't tell them to rebound, I disagree.   I think Doc tells every player exactly what he wants and expects the veterans and rookies to deliver.   I also think that's why some young players don't get minutes - Doc is CLEARLY saying.....do it my way or sit.   They either develop like Delonte, Rondo, BBD, Bradley, or the fail like JJJ, Giddens, Gerald Green, etc.  

Other than his bizarre fascination with going small, Doc is a good coach.

In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

 So does that mean you think he wants PP to have the ball at crunch time and its not really "hero" ball when this is done?

In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

CelticFan4Life recently sez:

"I will say, however, that Doc's voice has no longer has any effect on Rondo. He does whatever he wants at both ends of the court."

I'm not celticfan4life can have it both ways.

Sounds like you're saying that doc is clear...  but Rondo does..... whatever he wants.

Hmmmmmmmm.

Pud

 

I can buy into it, that Doc is clear with his players.. However, when they (the starters esp)dont do what he asks (mentally) , do they face any consequence? 

Regardless of what some coaches say, most give extra leeway to their stars..from AAU all the way up but there always has to be a line drawn.  I dont think Doc likes confronting his stars and actually sitting them when they refuse to do whats best for the team or are just not performing.

He has this loyalty to some players that reaches beyond the team...  maybe it works, not judging..  He has a lot of personalities to manage..  but fundamentally, I cant stand it when a PG refuses to put a reasonable effort into playing tough defense and he gets a pat on the butt for it. (figuratively)

 

 

I read the article......remembered it was Davis making the comments.........and trashed it in my mind!!

 

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 So does that mean you think he wants PP to have the ball at crunch time and its not really "hero" ball when this is done?

[/QUOTE]

OneOnOne,
I believe Doc has someone he calls on to take the last shot and its rarely Rondo.  Sometimes its PP, other times its KG, used to be Ray, sometimes JT.   Doc has even said he wants Pierce taking the shot but not dribbling more than 3 dribbles.

As for consequences, Karl - I have to ask what can Doc do to Rondo?  Like what can a coach do to Durant or Kobe or Lebron when they don't follow instructions....Rondo now thinks he can do whatever he wants and he's so valuable now that we can't bench him for long.   You tell me, what would you do to Rondo when he waves off other players at the end of the game and causes us to have a desperation shot or when he only puts effort into defense in the last possession or two of the game?   Can you afford to bench your second best player (I think KG is the best player).

In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

Rondo's not Durant, Kobe or LeBron!!

                Take him out and put Barbosa in. Then you have another scorer on the floor!! 

In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

 So does that mean you think he wants PP to have the ball at crunch time and its not really "hero" ball when this is done?

[/QUOTE]

OneOnOne,
I believe Doc has someone he calls on to take the last shot and its rarely Rondo.  Sometimes its PP, other times its KG, used to be Ray, sometimes JT.   Doc has even said he wants Pierce taking the shot but not dribbling more than 3 dribbles.

As for consequences, Karl - I have to ask what can Doc do to Rondo?  Like what can a coach do to Durant or Kobe or Lebron when they don't follow instructions....Rondo now thinks he can do whatever he wants and he's so valuable now that we can't bench him for long.   You tell me, what would you do to Rondo when he waves off other players at the end of the game and causes us to have a desperation shot or when he only puts effort into defense in the last possession or two of the game?   Can you afford to bench your second best player (I think KG is the best player).

[/QUOTE]


I understand your point.

If Rondo is getting us banners, then you have to bend over backwards for him.. but he isnt and was a much smaller piece to our last banner...

If hes become more important than the coach or uncoachable in certain situations to the detriment of the team.. then Id start taking minutes away and explain the reasons why..

Rondo isnt going to win a title on his own, he wont carry his team to a title like an MJ... its a team game..  and if stubborness or doing it his way, not the coaches way, is costing the team success or discension, then whats to consider? 

Look Rajon, this is the 3rd time in a row I told you to get the ball to PP and you looked him off. Your behavior is diminishing the respect I need from these players to win a title.. now either get on board or youll sit.. 

Cant let the players dictate unless their contract and success elevates them to a level far above the coach.. ala Kobe/ Mike Brown.. Lebron/Mike Brown...  poor Mike Brown

 

 

 

 

I understand your point.

If Rondo is getting us banners, then you have to bend over backwards for him.. but he isnt and was a much smaller piece to our last banner...

If hes become more important than the coach or uncoachable in certain situations to the detriment of the team.. then Id start taking minutes away and explain the reasons why..

Rondo isnt going to win a title on his own, he wont carry his team to a title like an MJ... its a team game..  and if stubborness or doing it his way, not the coaches way, is costing the team success or discension, then whats to consider? 

Look Rajon, this is the 3rd time in a row I told you to get the ball to PP and you looked him off. Your behavior is diminishing the respect I need from these players to win a title.. now either get on board or youll sit.. 

Cant let the players dictate unless their contract and success elevates them to a level far above the coach.. ala Kobe/ Mike Brown.. Lebron/Mike Brown...  poor Mike Brown

[/QUOTE]

Yea, man, you're right.  Its just that practically, it doesn't happen that way.   But, the best coach in the business does it (Pop) and you're right that Doc should consider it.

In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

Can you afford not to? After all, you're the coach.

What are you afraid of? Losing Rondo's respect? You've never gained it.

That's why Rondo is still a project.

Pud

In response to puddinpuddin's comment:

What is the Coach afraid of?:
Losing GAMES with an inferior backup and losing Rondo's energy in the areas where he is good.  Balance, Pud......that what coaches deal with in the real world vs what we can do by debating hypothetically on a chat board.

In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

Yea, man, you're right.  Its just that practically, it doesn't happen that way.   But, the best coach in the business does it (Pop) and you're right that Doc should consider it.

[/QUOTE]


I getcha... in the back of every coaches head, hes thinking...Do I really want to force a showdown with my star player.... cause it may cost me my job...

Thats the way it is these days... unfortunately.. ownership wont back coaches when the $$ scale isnt tilted in his favor. So ultimately, the coach has to find a compromise or risk the showdown...

Id rather not coach if I had to deal with that... but then again, Doc getting paid millions to take this kind of sh**.. 

Longing for the days of Vince Lombardi....

 

[/QUOTE]

What is the Coach afraid of?:
Losing GAMES with an inferior backup and losing Rondo's energy in the areas where he is good.  Balance, Pud......that what coaches deal with in the real world vs what we can do by debating hypothetically on a chat board.

[/QUOTE]

Rondo came into the league with the reputation of being difficult, headstrong  to coach.

Rather than facing that issue headon and laying down the law with this kid, doc took the easy way out, took the kid under his wing  as a surrogate dad might, practiced unconditional love and never disciplined him when R9R practiced what his agent later called "constructive defiance."

Doc closed his eyes hoping that the "diva" problems would disappear. They haven't.

Doc can't easily see or fix the problem because he is a major part of the problem. He's way too close to Rondo.

And would DA back doc  if he came to his senses and tried? That's the $64,000 question.

The cow is already out the barn door. 

DA and doc need to be on the same page before any sort of intervention/confrontation occurs. Otherwise, disaster that could blow up in management's face taking one or both in the process.

An easier solution is to deal R9R which DA has tried and w/o success.

Rondo carries lots of baggage that other GMs shy away from.

R9R's next contract year should be interesting indeed if he is still here.

Pud

In response to puddinpuddin's comment:

What is the Coach afraid of?:
Losing GAMES with an inferior backup and losing Rondo's energy in the areas where he is good.  Balance, Pud......that what coaches deal with in the real world vs what we can do by debating hypothetically on a chat board.

[/QUOTE]

Rondo came into the league with the reputation of being difficult, headstrong  to coach.

Rather than facing that issue headon and laying down the law with this kid, doc took the easy way out, took the kid under his wing  as a surrogate dad might, practiced unconditional love and never disciplined him when R9R practiced what his agent later called "constructive defiance."

Doc closed his eyes hoping that the "diva" problems would disappear. They haven't.

Doc can't easily see or fix the problem because he is a major part of the problem. He's way too close to Rondo.

And would DA back doc  if he came to his senses and tried? That's the $64,000 question.

The cow is already out the barn door. 

DA and doc need to be on the same page before any sort of intervention/confrontation occurs. Otherwise, disaster that could blow up in management's face taking one or both in the process.

An easier solution is to deal R9R which DA has tried and w/o success.

Rondo carries lots of baggage that other GMs shy away from.

R9R's next contract year should be interesting indeed if he is still here.

Pud

[/QUOTE]

Right.  Because when you sit on your loveseat eating cheese jax you really know what is going on.

 

In response to puddinpuddin's comment:

What is the Coach afraid of?:
Losing GAMES with an inferior backup and losing Rondo's energy in the areas where he is good.  Balance, Pud......that what coaches deal with in the real world vs what we can do by debating hypothetically on a chat board.

[/QUOTE]

Rondo came into the league with the reputation of being difficult, headstrong  to coach.

Rather than facing that issue headon and laying down the law with this kid, doc took the easy way out, took the kid under his wing  as a surrogate dad might, practiced unconditional love and never disciplined him when R9R practiced what his agent later called "constructive defiance."

Doc closed his eyes hoping that the "diva" problems would disappear. They haven't.

Doc can't easily see or fix the problem because he is a major part of the problem. He's way too close to Rondo.

And would DA back doc  if he came to his senses and tried? That's the $64,000 question.

The cow is already out the barn door. 

DA and doc need to be on the same page before any sort of intervention/confrontation occurs. Otherwise, disaster that could blow up in management's face taking one or both in the process.

An easier solution is to deal R9R which DA has tried and w/o success.

Rondo carries lots of baggage that other GMs shy away from.

R9R's next contract year should be interesting indeed if he is still here.

Pud

[/QUOTE]

Little bit overboard on RR.  And how many players has RR been shopped for? Chris Paul?  Maybe Pau Gasol?   If you think all the GM's don't want RR you are crazy, they would take him in a hearbeat.  Danny definitely isn't going to give him away.  He is already in rarified air with Stockton and Johnson.  Is he the best PG in the NBA?   Depends on who you ask.  I know one thing,  it doesn't take long to call the roll on the best PG list that he is on.

Being overboard on Rondo is what Pud does.  Actually it is all Pud does.  Remember the post when Pud said that the Celtics configured the team so Rondo would get assists and steals and that the celtics didn't care about winning as long as he did?

Pud is the epitome of the unreliable narraror.

In response to OneOnOne's comment:

When R9R was dangled to Indiana, LB wanted to know about "clubhouse issues."

Bird is no fool. He knew enough to ask.

Pud

In response to puddinpuddin's comment:

That's odd.  If you google "Rondo Bird Indiana Trade clubhouse issues" nothing comes up.

Where did you get this info sparky?  and who was Ainge looking to get from Indiana?

Pud just can't help himself.  Amazing that one guy can post so many negative posts on one player over and over and over and over.   

Snakeoil - your comment about sitting on the loveseat eating cheese jax is hilarious.