Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wicksandrowe. Show wicksandrowe's posts

    Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    It looks like Pierce-centric offense is, at best, a roll-the-dice, 50/50 proposition. Some good, some bad. Last night he led the way, for a while, but also lost Batum and Mathews numerous times, failed  to help into the lane, and clanked his last two (why the three with 7 seconds on the clock?)

    More to the point, except for KG on the pick and pop, everyone else was relegated to standing and watching. 

    PHX:  113 points with no KG and Pierce with 5 FGA

    PORT:   86 points with KG and Pierce at 35 FGA

    Yes, PORT is a better team, but the game looked ugly and stagnant. And tt's harder to get wired up defensively, jump to 50/50 balls, get on the offensive glass after you've been standing in the same spot for 15 seconds watching Pierce play two on two with KG.

    Honestly, if the result is going to be .500 ball, I'd rather see them play with energy and pace, run, cut, move, attack, use the new athleticism and all-court players they have.

    Doc needs to have a sit-down with KG and Pierce and spell it out - we're going away from the static to the dynamic and you're going to have to get on board or get out of the way. We can't be efficient in the way we used to be playing the way we used to play.

    Playing fast can actually help certain players play better on the defensive end and I think we have more than a few of those players.

    At the end of the day, .run or walk, 500 ball is .500 ball.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    I agree.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    Rivers rotations are bizarre.

    Green is not a 4 and Bass is not a 5, and Jason Terry should be a PG, if you are going to play him.



    I guess the problem is a team with Bass as a starting 4 and Green is a starting 3 is average at best.

    Is this Rivers fault?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    Portland is a better team than the Suns but we still had a chance to win despite a -11 rebound discrepancy(47-36). Even though PP & KG had 23 and 20 pts respectively or 1/2 the 86, we lost. Many times LeBron & Wade have half the points but Heat win.  I just saw the statistic that they are last in rebounding averaging 38 and we average 39. But, here is the difference, LeBron & Wade can drive to the basket, make it or get fouled. They can shoot 3s too.

    In the Suns game there was no KG and PP only had 8 pts. I watched a small ball team that looked liked 18-21 year old college players and many, especially, Green, were driving to the basket. Last night it was Slow Ball between KG and PP. Even though Green, Crawford, Williams,Terry were off, they should have run the ball and passed the ball looking for open men to shoot or drive the basket, & draw a foul too, not just trying to find PP & KG. We can't depend upon these 2 old guys going forward. We don't have a big man, we will have 5-10 fewer rebounds so we need to play good "D", cause turnovers, get more foul shots & hopefully shoot 5-10% better if we hope to get by the 1st round.


    Sorry, to say this because I hate them but the Lakers are playing better and it's mostly because they outrebound opponents & will be even better when Gasol returns. Kobe too has been on fire. And, of course, more important to us is that I don't think there are any 2 players better than LeBron & Wade driving to the basket.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to wicksandrowe's comment:

    It looks like Pierce-centric offense is, at best, a roll-the-dice, 50/50 proposition. Some good, some bad. Last night he led the way, for a while, but also lost Batum and Mathews numerous times, failed  to help into the lane, and clanked his last two (why the three with 7 seconds on the clock?)

    More to the point, except for KG on the pick and pop, everyone else was relegated to standing and watching. 

    PHX:  113 points with no KG and Pierce with 5 FGA

    PORT:   86 points with KG and Pierce at 35 FGA

    Yes, PORT is a better team, but the game looked ugly and stagnant. And tt's harder to get wired up defensively, jump to 50/50 balls, get on the offensive glass after you've been standing in the same spot for 15 seconds watching Pierce play two on two with KG.

    Honestly, if the result is going to be .500 ball, I'd rather see them play with energy and pace, run, cut, move, attack, use the new athleticism and all-court players they have.

    Doc needs to have a sit-down with KG and Pierce and spell it out - we're going away from the static to the dynamic and you're going to have to get on board or get out of the way. We can't be efficient in the way we used to be playing the way we used to play.

    Playing fast can actually help certain players play better on the defensive end and I think we have more than a few of those players.

    At the end of the day, .run or walk, 500 ball is .500 ball.



    Well said, I have been trying to say the same thing.  Pierce is like the team a 50-50 proposition.  If we want to try to be better we have to wean ourselves off this dependency on Pierce. Green is the guy to go to and see if he can get to the line late in games.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    It's not a matter of what player playing what spot. It is a matter of playing 2 on 5 down the stretch every game we lose. Having 3 guys stand around with their thumbs up their a $$ while Pierce and KG run an ineffective offense that requires 100% fg pct to maybe work. I'm sorry but that is the problem. EVERY game we lose it is because of that junk,we've turned blowouts into losses,we've turned close games into us being blownout and blowouts into nail biters.  If Doc refuses to change this predictable slog ball ways,maybe its time DA finds a coach that will. I know this approach has worked well for us the few years, but with 9 new players on the roster, that was then and this is now. If we do not change our approach ASAP,we  are done. If PP and KG really want to be true Celtics they will not impede our positive transition by clinging to the past. If we play old school Celtic ball we can win 18# but if we keep playing PP and KGs end o' quarter funhouse ball we will be out so it won't matter if we make the playoffs or not. Everytime Doc sees DAs new roster in action, he squashes it. Doc has been too loyal to 1/3 of his roster at the detriment of the other 2/3 of the team. I hope DFA isn't too loyal to Doc to squander this opportunity away. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to wicksandrowe's comment:

    It looks like Pierce-centric offense is, at best, a roll-the-dice, 50/50 proposition. Some good, some bad. Last night he led the way, for a while, but also lost Batum and Mathews numerous times, failed  to help into the lane, and clanked his last two (why the three with 7 seconds on the clock?)

    More to the point, except for KG on the pick and pop, everyone else was relegated to standing and watching. 

    PHX:  113 points with no KG and Pierce with 5 FGA

    PORT:   86 points with KG and Pierce at 35 FGA

    Yes, PORT is a better team, but the game looked ugly and stagnant. And tt's harder to get wired up defensively, jump to 50/50 balls, get on the offensive glass after you've been standing in the same spot for 15 seconds watching Pierce play two on two with KG.

    Honestly, if the result is going to be .500 ball, I'd rather see them play with energy and pace, run, cut, move, attack, use the new athleticism and all-court players they have.

    Doc needs to have a sit-down with KG and Pierce and spell it out - we're going away from the static to the dynamic and you're going to have to get on board or get out of the way. We can't be efficient in the way we used to be playing the way we used to play.

    Playing fast can actually help certain players play better on the defensive end and I think we have more than a few of those players.

    At the end of the day, .run or walk, 500 ball is .500 ball.

      We would have been better off, if Ainge had traded both KG and Pierce. I don't know where we're going without them, but we're going nowhere with them.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to kyceltic's comment:

    In response to wicksandrowe's comment:

     

    It looks like Pierce-centric offense is, at best, a roll-the-dice, 50/50 proposition. Some good, some bad. Last night he led the way, for a while, but also lost Batum and Mathews numerous times, failed  to help into the lane, and clanked his last two (why the three with 7 seconds on the clock?)

    More to the point, except for KG on the pick and pop, everyone else was relegated to standing and watching. 

    PHX:  113 points with no KG and Pierce with 5 FGA

    PORT:   86 points with KG and Pierce at 35 FGA

    Yes, PORT is a better team, but the game looked ugly and stagnant. And tt's harder to get wired up defensively, jump to 50/50 balls, get on the offensive glass after you've been standing in the same spot for 15 seconds watching Pierce play two on two with KG.

    Honestly, if the result is going to be .500 ball, I'd rather see them play with energy and pace, run, cut, move, attack, use the new athleticism and all-court players they have.

    Doc needs to have a sit-down with KG and Pierce and spell it out - we're going away from the static to the dynamic and you're going to have to get on board or get out of the way. We can't be efficient in the way we used to be playing the way we used to play.

    Playing fast can actually help certain players play better on the defensive end and I think we have more than a few of those players.

    At the end of the day, .run or walk, 500 ball is .500 ball.

     

      We would have been better off, if Ainge had traded both KG and Pierce. I don't know where we're going without them, but we're going nowhere with them.


     



    I thought of that last night comparing the Phoenix game. We were without KG and Pierce hardly played.  We looked awfully good.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Accension13. Show Accension13's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    Very good thread with some well thought out opinions.  To me,  the problem the c's have with Pierce dominating the ball is very similar to a lot of the criticism kobe had gotten in the past. When kobe is the sole focus of the Lakers offense,  all the other players are forced to just stand and look inept (especially Howard and Gasol). They aren't in the flow offensively so it's hard for them to produce when called upon to score and their defense tends to tail off as a side effect. I doubt doc will figure this issue out this year,  and I feel a lot of this teams potential will be squandered

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to Accension13's comment:

    Very good thread with some well thought out opinions.  To me,  the problem the c's have with Pierce dominating the ball is very similar to a lot of the criticism kobe had gotten in the past. When kobe is the sole focus of the Lakers offense,  all the other players are forced to just stand and look inept (especially Howard and Gasol). They aren't in the flow offensively so it's hard for them to produce when called upon to score and their defense tends to tail off as a side effect. I doubt doc will figure this issue out this year,  and I feel a lot of this teams potential will be squandered



    It isn't just this year.  People have been saying that about Pierce for years.  Especially at the end of games.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to wicksandrowe's comment:

    It looks like Pierce-centric offense is, at best, a roll-the-dice, 50/50 proposition. Some good, some bad. Last night he led the way, for a while, but also lost Batum and Mathews numerous times, failed  to help into the lane, and clanked his last two (why the three with 7 seconds on the clock?)

    More to the point, except for KG on the pick and pop, everyone else was relegated to standing and watching. 

    PHX:  113 points with no KG and Pierce with 5 FGA

    PORT:   86 points with KG and Pierce at 35 FGA

    Yes, PORT is a better team, but the game looked ugly and stagnant. And tt's harder to get wired up defensively, jump to 50/50 balls, get on the offensive glass after you've been standing in the same spot for 15 seconds watching Pierce play two on two with KG.

    Honestly, if the result is going to be .500 ball, I'd rather see them play with energy and pace, run, cut, move, attack, use the new athleticism and all-court players they have.

    Doc needs to have a sit-down with KG and Pierce and spell it out - we're going away from the static to the dynamic and you're going to have to get on board or get out of the way. We can't be efficient in the way we used to be playing the way we used to play.

    Playing fast can actually help certain players play better on the defensive end and I think we have more than a few of those players.

    At the end of the day, .run or walk, 500 ball is .500 ball.



    Well stated!

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Rivers rotations are bizarre.

    Green is not a 4 and Bass is not a 5, and Jason Terry should be a PG, if you are going to play him.

     



    I guess the problem is a team with Bass as a starting 4 and Green is a starting 3 is average at best.

     

    Is this Rivers fault?

     



    Did you even read my post?

     

    Green is not a power forward.

    Bass is not a center.

    Terry should be a backup point guard, not a shooting guard.

    Rivers plays everyone out of position, thus puting them in a position to fail.



    Green has played a lot of power forward over his career. I guess that is where I don't get where you are coming from.You always want to play Green at the 2. Green does play power forward.  he doesn't play 2. 

    So you want Doc to play Green at the 2 (which is out of position) but you don't want Doc to play Green at the 4 ( Which is where Green has spend a lot of time in the NBA) and then you say the reason they fail is that Doc plays them out of position.

    The reason they fail is that they aren't that good.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from basketbert. Show basketbert's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Rivers rotations are bizarre.

    Green is not a 4 and Bass is not a 5, and Jason Terry should be a PG, if you are going to play him.

     



    I guess the problem is a team with Bass as a starting 4 and Green is a starting 3 is average at best.

     

    Is this Rivers fault?

     



    Did you even read my post?

     

    Green is not a power forward.

    Bass is not a center.

    Terry should be a backup point guard, not a shooting guard.

    Rivers plays everyone out of position, thus puting them in a position to fail.

     



    Green has played a lot of power forward over his career. I guess that is where I don't get where you are coming from.You always want to play Green at the 2. Green does play power forward.  he doesn't play 2. 

     

    So you want Doc to play Green at the 2 (which is out of position) but you don't want Doc to play Green at the 4 ( Which is where Green has spend a lot of time in the NBA) and then you say the reason they fail is that Doc plays them out of position.

    The reason they fail is that they aren't that good.




    Bass is not a starter on a good team, period.

    Green: possibly

    Pierce: not anymore

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fedup13. Show fedup13's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    Bass cannot rebound.  When opposing guards drive to the basket, he just stands there and lets them go.  Jason Terry plays no defense, at all.  If you play small ball, I would start KG, Pierce, Green, Crawford and Williams.  Better shooters than Terry or Lee.  For defense I would put in Bradly and Lee.

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Rivers rotations are bizarre.

    Green is not a 4 and Bass is not a 5, and Jason Terry should be a PG, if you are going to play him.

     



    I guess the problem is a team with Bass as a starting 4 and Green is a starting 3 is average at best.

     

    Is this Rivers fault?

     



    Did you even read my post?

     

    Green is not a power forward.

    Bass is not a center.

    Terry should be a backup point guard, not a shooting guard.

    Rivers plays everyone out of position, thus puting them in a position to fail.

     



    Green has played a lot of power forward over his career. I guess that is where I don't get where you are coming from.You always want to play Green at the 2. Green does play power forward.  he doesn't play 2. 

     

    So you want Doc to play Green at the 2 (which is out of position) but you don't want Doc to play Green at the 4 ( Which is where Green has spend a lot of time in the NBA) and then you say the reason they fail is that Doc plays them out of position.

    The reason they fail is that they aren't that good.

     




    Wrong.

     

    Stats show that over his career Green has been very ineffective at the 4.

    Bass is a joke at the 5.



    Green just scored 31 points as a PF. He is a better PF then Bass.

    I have no idea why you keep bringing up bass as a center. I havent said anything about that.

    My only point is that Pierce at SF and Green at PF is a much better duo than Green at SF and Bass At PF.

    I would assume you would agree with that. anyone else would.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    Kirk.

    Green can play the 4. 

    Green cannot play the 2.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    Sure Green can play at 4.  However, he shouldn't.  His offensive production typically further from the lane is offset by fewer team rebounds and the opposition pounding more inside.

    Green is a 3, and only a 3, on any normal team that actuallty has adequate big men.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to Eldunker's comment:

    Sure Green can play at 4.  However, he shouldn't.  His offensive production typically further from the lane is offset by fewer team rebounds and the opposition pounding more inside.

    Green is a 3, and only a 3, on any normal team that actuallty has adequate big men.




    Right but the Celtics dont.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to Accension13's comment:

     

    Very good thread with some well thought out opinions.  To me,  the problem the c's have with Pierce dominating the ball is very similar to a lot of the criticism kobe had gotten in the past. When kobe is the sole focus of the Lakers offense,  all the other players are forced to just stand and look inept (especially Howard and Gasol). They aren't in the flow offensively so it's hard for them to produce when called upon to score and their defense tends to tail off as a side effect. I doubt doc will figure this issue out this year,  and I feel a lot of this teams potential will be squandered

     



     

    It isn't just this year.  People have been saying that about Pierce for years.  Especially at the end of games.  



    PP just isn't the closer Doc remembers. It time to change the iso game and get into a movement offense, even at the end of the game. PP should be the 6-7-man getting 20-mins with JG starting. You are right that BB is not a quality starter, but he is as good a fifth man as what most teams have......

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Rivers rotations are bizarre.

    Green is not a 4 and Bass is not a 5, and Jason Terry should be a PG, if you are going to play him.

     



    I guess the problem is a team with Bass as a starting 4 and Green is a starting 3 is average at best.

     

    Is this Rivers fault?

     



    Did you even read my post?

     

    Green is not a power forward.

    Bass is not a center.

    Terry should be a backup point guard, not a shooting guard.

    Rivers plays everyone out of position, thus puting them in a position to fail.

     



    Green has played a lot of power forward over his career. I guess that is where I don't get where you are coming from.You always want to play Green at the 2. Green does play power forward.  he doesn't play 2. 

     

    So you want Doc to play Green at the 2 (which is out of position) but you don't want Doc to play Green at the 4 ( Which is where Green has spend a lot of time in the NBA) and then you say the reason they fail is that Doc plays them out of position.

    The reason they fail is that they aren't that good.




    If it was just playing Green at the two, and problems solved, everyone could coach in the nba.

    Doc has played so many line ups that it is unbelievable..

    Its not just about moving people around, they have to play together as a team.

    Sometimes what looks good on paper, will simply not work in reality..

    I think Doc is smart enough to figure that out..

    But when they lose, I know its easy to point at things and solve the problems since we are not held accountable like he is...

    Its like when my daughter played softball. All the parents knew better than the coaches.

    Then, one day the coach just quit. One of the parents was selected to be the coach.

    He lasted two games....lol

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    In response to Accension13's comment:

     

    Very good thread with some well thought out opinions.  To me,  the problem the c's have with Pierce dominating the ball is very similar to a lot of the criticism kobe had gotten in the past. When kobe is the sole focus of the Lakers offense,  all the other players are forced to just stand and look inept (especially Howard and Gasol). They aren't in the flow offensively so it's hard for them to produce when called upon to score and their defense tends to tail off as a side effect. I doubt doc will figure this issue out this year,  and I feel a lot of this teams potential will be squandered

     




    You are absolutely correct about PP hogging the ball and correct too that Kobe does, but it is obvious that Kobe is a better scorer & drive to the basket player than Pierce. And the difference is when Kobe misses, he and others get many second chances as Bynum used to with Gasol and now Howard & Gasol are probably the best duo rebounders !!! Our jump shooting team does not have that luxury. It needs shoot 50% or better. Hopefully, Green will drive to the basket as he did vs Suns and scored 31 pts. Essential if we are to be in the playoffs and maybe get   to the 2nd round.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Paul-Ball or Small-Ball?

    Yea Pierce should be 6th or 7th man on this team.  He shouldn't start.  Green needs to take his place.  Even Tanguay, Tommy and the other guy talked about that when someone texted it to them.  I didn't think they were ever going to stop laughing.  Did one of you guys text that comment to them?

     
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