Pierce is done

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to docomospur's comment:

    I think we held on to PP for a bit too long past his sell-by date.  Guess we're paying the price for misplaced sentiment.




    misplaced sentiment that is one sided.  these modern players have no corresponding faith/sentiment and would leave town in a second for a better pay day or anything they wanted that wasn't here.


    15M per year right now for a guy who the team rode like a rented mule during the bad years- you KNEW he was going to tire out before age 38, hmm?  he's been playing pro-ball since he was 20, many of those years at 38-40 mins!

     

    let's not forget the trolls that rode glen davis out of town on a rail- doc rivers was the engineer of that locomotive- all for this "fabulous athlete" and "cheap" bass.  bass was cheap for ONE YEAR- and now he's being paid the exact same $$ as davis and isn't even functional and davis is still improving. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Pierce isnt done... he just needs to play limited minutes and come off the bench..  If the C"s had a good coach, we might have seen it happen long ago




    okay, let's go down that road.  avery bradley ONLY started over ray by accident last year- doc would not see the talent for what it was right in front of his face- typical KC Jones (an insult to KC to even compare him to doc's incompetence) / INCOMPETENCE.....  so now you think with a "healthy" pierce (for what it's worth) they are going to start green over pierce?

    ray tried to smile through it last year but he still had ego issues.  they all do.  but with a dolt like rivers as a coach to sell the program to an aging vet???  rivers won't bother to do anything that he isn't dragged kicking and screaming into by way of roster attrition.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Right now Green is better than Pierce.


    You're right, right now Green is playing way better than Pierce. Your statistical arguement is fools gold put Green in the same role as Pierce and your arguement will fold like a cheap suit. Green has to adjust his game every couple of minutes while Pierce can miss 10 shots and will still get the touches to miss 10 more,apples and oranges. I'm not saying Pierce is done by any means but he definately has to assume a different mindset and role if we are to have a shot at making a legit run,I don't want to trade PP,especially since his play lately will not get us the return we want or help us this season or the future.



    Not even close. 

     




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    Sorry I thought I was replying to Snake oil

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to aciemvp's comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    Pierce isnt done... he just needs to play limited minutes and come off the bench..  If the C"s had a good coach, we might have seen it happen long ago

     




    okay, let's go down that road.  avery bradley ONLY started over ray by accident last year- doc would not see the talent for what it was right in front of his face- typical KC Jones (an insult to KC to even compare him to doc's incompetence) / INCOMPETENCE.....  so now you think with a "healthy" pierce (for what it's worth) they are going to start green over pierce?

     

    ray tried to smile through it last year but he still had ego issues.  they all do.  but with a dolt like rivers as a coach to sell the program to an aging vet???  rivers won't bother to do anything that he isn't dragged kicking and screaming into by way of roster attrition.



    Acie,

    When it comes to Doc, you sound like Pud on Rondo. Doc has not solved the problems but he did in a miraculous way last year.  He is owed at least the rest of the season to right things.  For me I would still want him next year. He needs players,  Ainge screwed up not Doc. Ainge needs to fix it.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticsince1958. Show celticsince1958's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

    PP did lose this game and Doc is also to blame. Pierce is not done he needs to come off the bench and play 20 or so for now Green needs to play 30+ and start. At this point we are like a family or business group that is at a crossroads dealing with a habit was once a great character point that has tipped to a dibilitating  habit that needs an intervention. Pierce is a hall of famer, Doc  is a very good coach,Pierce is the only player who has been with Doc since day one,players respect and like Doc this  bond and unity that was once the core asset of this team has become it's biggest inhibator. PP is the abuser,Doc the enabler and the unity and devotion of the unit has become the enabler that has been accepting blame for faults that our not theirs and apologizing far acts they have not committed deflecting blame for those who deserve it who, for at least for now are refutiating accounability and denying the results of their recent actions by both the abuser and enabler out of percieved obligation to the unit. This now at crisis point to either try to look in the mirror with candid reflection and choose to accept your recent digressions and go forward or to cling to the rationizations of said regressive habit and fall further into the abyss of decline and spiraling failure.



    Please explain to me what you mean by he is a good coach? And please do not make me laugh my head off.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to celticsince1958's comment:

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

     

    PP did lose this game and Doc is also to blame. Pierce is not done he needs to come off the bench and play 20 or so for now Green needs to play 30+ and start. At this point we are like a family or business group that is at a crossroads dealing with a habit was once a great character point that has tipped to a dibilitating  habit that needs an intervention. Pierce is a hall of famer, Doc  is a very good coach,Pierce is the only player who has been with Doc since day one,players respect and like Doc this  bond and unity that was once the core asset of this team has become it's biggest inhibator. PP is the abuser,Doc the enabler and the unity and devotion of the unit has become the enabler that has been accepting blame for faults that our not theirs and apologizing far acts they have not committed deflecting blame for those who deserve it who, for at least for now are refutiating accounability and denying the results of their recent actions by both the abuser and enabler out of percieved obligation to the unit. This now at crisis point to either try to look in the mirror with candid reflection and choose to accept your recent digressions and go forward or to cling to the rationizations of said regressive habit and fall further into the abyss of decline and spiraling failure.

     



    Please explain to me what you mean by he is a good coach? And please do not make me laugh my head off.

     



    Look at his record the last five years?  Who has brought his teams farther? He was one game from the finals last year.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    I can understand your skeptisism about Doc and have referred to his his dissapointing coaching so far this last month in other posts today. He made some great adjustments last season and we almost got to where we wanted to be by him making the right decisions at the right time, this year not so much. Even though I still feel we can legitemately contend this year with this roster with the right adjustments I also can understand the growing sentiment corncerning trades. I feel Doc has earned the right to make adjustments before the deadline. Again I totally understand your skeptisism though.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Right now Green is better than Pierce.


    You're right, right now Green is playing way better than Pierce. Your statistical arguement is fools gold put Green in the same role as Pierce and your arguement will fold like a cheap suit. Green has to adjust his game every couple of minutes while Pierce can miss 10 shots and will still get the touches to miss 10 more,apples and oranges. I'm not saying Pierce is done by any means but he definately has to assume a different mindset and role if we are to have a shot at making a legit run,I don't want to trade PP,especially since his play lately will not get us the return we want or help us this season or the future.



    Not even close. 

     

     




     



    I don't really have to say anything else.

    Per 36 minutes Pierce 20.4 points, 6.2 boards, 4.1 assists

    Jeff green 14.5 points 4.9 boards 1.4 assists.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to aciemvp's comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    Pierce isnt done... he just needs to play limited minutes and come off the bench..  If the C"s had a good coach, we might have seen it happen long ago

     




    okay, let's go down that road.  avery bradley ONLY started over ray by accident last year- doc would not see the talent for what it was right in front of his face- typical KC Jones (an insult to KC to even compare him to doc's incompetence) / INCOMPETENCE.....  so now you think with a "healthy" pierce (for what it's worth) they are going to start green over pierce?

     

    ray tried to smile through it last year but he still had ego issues.  they all do.  but with a dolt like rivers as a coach to sell the program to an aging vet???  rivers won't bother to do anything that he isn't dragged kicking and screaming into by way of roster attrition.



    You say Ray tried to smile through it?  Well, at least he tried.  Pierce has to do the same.  Many hate Ray but he did the right thing.  He had issues but he volunteered to come off the bench, he played hurt, and he played well.  He waited until AFTER the season to deal with his ego and he left. 

    Paul needs to show the same honor.  Hate Ray or like Ray, he did the right thing and I'd love for Pierce to deal with it like a man, as well.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Right now Green is better than Pierce.


    You're right, right now Green is playing way better than Pierce. Your statistical arguement is fools gold put Green in the same role as Pierce and your arguement will fold like a cheap suit. Green has to adjust his game every couple of minutes while Pierce can miss 10 shots and will still get the touches to miss 10 more,apples and oranges. I'm not saying Pierce is done by any means but he definately has to assume a different mindset and role if we are to have a shot at making a legit run,I don't want to trade PP,especially since his play lately will not get us the return we want or help us this season or the future.



    Not even close. 

     

     




     

     



     

    I don't really have to say anything else.

    Per 36 minutes Pierce 20.4 points, 6.2 boards, 4.1 assists

    Jeff green 14.5 points 4.9 boards 1.4 assists.

     




    You left out turnovers and poor defense.

     

    Turnovers per 36 Pierce 2.6 and Green 2.0

    does that half turnover a game make up for the 6 points, 2 boards and 3 more assists Pierce brings?

    Sorry to keep bringing up statistics. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from heirplain. Show heirplain's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Pierce isnt done... he just needs to play limited minutes and come off the bench..  If the C"s had a good coach, we might have seen it happen long ago




    Agree!!..PP isn't done. All star week to rest, les minutes, a decent trade for an oak tree and PP will be back! this year.

     These posters are too quick to throw players under the bus imo! Happens all the time here.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    Snakeoil, now you know very well that if Pierce had to play 36 minutes EVERY NIGHT, his statistics would be nowhere near your projections.  That is what's left out.

    Pierce just isn't effective anymore playing big minutes.  I can see Martin finishing strong at the end of a game in which he's played 40 minutes.  I can't see Pierce like that.

    I'd venture to guess, merely from the "eye test", that Pierce's numbers would drop significantly with increased minutes ON A NIGHTLY BASIS. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to celticsince1958's comment:

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

     

    PP did lose this game and Doc is also to blame. Pierce is not done he needs to come off the bench and play 20 or so for now Green needs to play 30+ and start. At this point we are like a family or business group that is at a crossroads dealing with a habit was once a great character point that has tipped to a dibilitating  habit that needs an intervention. Pierce is a hall of famer, Doc  is a very good coach,Pierce is the only player who has been with Doc since day one,players respect and like Doc this  bond and unity that was once the core asset of this team has become it's biggest inhibator. PP is the abuser,Doc the enabler and the unity and devotion of the unit has become the enabler that has been accepting blame for faults that our not theirs and apologizing far acts they have not committed deflecting blame for those who deserve it who, for at least for now are refutiating accounability and denying the results of their recent actions by both the abuser and enabler out of percieved obligation to the unit. This now at crisis point to either try to look in the mirror with candid reflection and choose to accept your recent digressions and go forward or to cling to the rationizations of said regressive habit and fall further into the abyss of decline and spiraling failure.

     



    Please explain to me what you mean by he is a good coach? And please do not make me laugh my head off.

     



    Instead of laughing, ask yourself why the team looked terrible in 2010 but still got to within a few minutes of a championship and other than an injury to Perk would likely have gotten there.  Ask yourself how they challenged the Magic when KG was hurt.  Ask youself how they were written off last year at mid-season but a certain coach had them playing well by the time the playoffs rolled around and they destroyed Carmelo and Amari and got to game 7 of the ECF's.  Ask how he won coach of the year when most can't do it.  Ask how he has had so many good players get better under him (Mike Miller, Magette, BBD, Leon Powe, Rondo, Tony Allen, Ryan Gomes, Perkins, Bradley, etc).  And, ask if players like Perk as as valuable AFTER they no longer play for Doc.   In fact, ask BBD whether he learned from Doc even while he hated it.   Ask if he respected what Doc tried to make him do.

    When you finish laughing, try to be objective and tell me why EVERY analyst and announcer says he's one of the best coaches in the league as do the players and then tell me he's not a good coach. Then, ask why - like any good CEO - he hires great assistants, like every great coach does.   

    Perfect, heck no!   Mistakes, heck yes.  Too loyal to his veterans, yes at times.   But, his record says he overcomes all that and develops players and other coaches to make the team better.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Petey62's comment:

    Snakeoil, now you know very well that if Pierce had to play 36 minutes EVERY NIGHT, his statistics would be nowhere near your projections.  That is what's left out.

    Pierce just isn't effective anymore playing big minutes.  I can see Martin finishing strong at the end of a game in which he's played 40 minutes.  I can't see Pierce like that.

    I'd venture to guess, merely from the "eye test", that Pierce's numbers would drop significantly with increased minutes ON A NIGHTLY BASIS. 




    He is playing 34 minutes a game right now. Not sure what you are talking about. Not being rude. Just saying I only did the 36 minutes to compare green and Pierce. I could pick 24 minutes, 48 minutes, 100 minutes.

    He is a lot more productive than Green is my only point.  that is a fact.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to Petey62's comment:

     

    Snakeoil, now you know very well that if Pierce had to play 36 minutes EVERY NIGHT, his statistics would be nowhere near your projections.  That is what's left out.

    Pierce just isn't effective anymore playing big minutes.  I can see Martin finishing strong at the end of a game in which he's played 40 minutes.  I can't see Pierce like that.

    I'd venture to guess, merely from the "eye test", that Pierce's numbers would drop significantly with increased minutes ON A NIGHTLY BASIS. 

     




     

    He is playing 34 minutes a game right now. Not sure what you are talking about. Not being rude. Just saying I only did the 36 minutes to compare green and Pierce. I could pick 24 minutes, 48 minutes, 100 minutes.

    He is a lot more productive than Green is my only point.  that is a fact.



    I agree with you, SnakeOil, that Pierce is more productive.  But, that's because Pierce plays the role of a guy with the ball in his hands so much and also because Paul is more aggressive than Green.  Jeff Green is no Paul Pierce.   If, however, Green got a more prominent role, I also believe he would be more productive.  More importantly, if Pierce played LESS minutes, I think he'd have more energy and spring in his legs by game's end.   Green should start so that we can run more and open up the game.....then let Pierce come in during those situations where the game slows down and we need a better shooter.

    And by the way, SnakeOil, you wouldn't argue that Pierce doesn't hurt us at the end of games with his turnovers and inability to get his own shot off, would you?   Pierce should become, as Doc has even noted, our catch and shoot guy.  He shouldn't do much more than that at this stage of his career.   Ray was in better shape and could run around to catch and shoot.   Paul can't do that but with the proper picks, he can get open and be a half court catch and shoot option.  But, until his legs get better, he CANNOT be a 34 min/game guy - he is just too weary legged to do that any more.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    Snakeoil, my bad.  I really thought some posts ago we were referring to Kevin Martin and Paul Pierce.  If we're debating Pierce and Green, Pierce is more productive.  Yes you are right.

    But honestly, I thought the debate was a follow on to the previous page comparing Pierce and Martin playing for OKC.

    Sorry for the confusion.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Petey62's comment:

    Snakeoil, my bad.  I really thought some posts ago we were referring to Kevin Martin and Paul Pierce.  If we're debating Pierce and Green, Pierce is more productive.  Yes you are right.

    But honestly, I thought the debate was a follow on to the previous page comparing Pierce and Martin playing for OKC.

    Sorry for the confusion.



    Snake is right, Green playing 34 minutes would find himself facing much more defensive pressure.  Almost certainly it would result in more turnovers.  Also PP is double teamed constantly especially in crunch time.  Green would whither under that pressure. That said give Green a chance and let's see if he could play better.  What  do we have to lose?

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Petey62's comment:

     

    Snakeoil, now you know very well that if Pierce had to play 36 minutes EVERY NIGHT, his statistics would be nowhere near your projections.  That is what's left out.

    Pierce just isn't effective anymore playing big minutes.  I can see Martin finishing strong at the end of a game in which he's played 40 minutes.  I can't see Pierce like that.

    I'd venture to guess, merely from the "eye test", that Pierce's numbers would drop significantly with increased minutes ON A NIGHTLY BASIS. 

     




     

    He is playing 34 minutes a game right now. Not sure what you are talking about. Not being rude. Just saying I only did the 36 minutes to compare green and Pierce. I could pick 24 minutes, 48 minutes, 100 minutes.

    He is a lot more productive than Green is my only point.  that is a fact.

     



    I agree with you, SnakeOil, that Pierce is more productive.  But, that's because Pierce plays the role of a guy with the ball in his hands so much and also because Paul is more aggressive than Green.  Jeff Green is no Paul Pierce.   If, however, Green got a more prominent role, I also believe he would be more productive.  More importantly, if Pierce played LESS minutes, I think he'd have more energy and spring in his legs by game's end.   Green should start so that we can run more and open up the game.....then let Pierce come in during those situations where the game slows down and we need a better shooter.

     

    And by the way, SnakeOil, you wouldn't argue that Pierce doesn't hurt us at the end of games with his turnovers and inability to get his own shot off, would you?   Pierce should become, as Doc has even noted, our catch and shoot guy.  He shouldn't do much more than that at this stage of his career.   Ray was in better shape and could run around to catch and shoot.   Paul can't do that but with the proper picks, he can get open and be a half court catch and shoot option.  But, until his legs get better, he CANNOT be a 34 min/game guy - he is just too weary legged to do that any more.



    Well said BUT,Green if given the right chance, will be  as productive as  Pierce. Green has the unfortunate trait of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. In Seatle he was expected to instantly turn the franchise around in a year w/o any real help that was dealt away by a team that had ideal circumstances to leave town. In OKC he was an anchor for a team that over achieved  and had Kevin Durant and James Harden as picks the next 2 years and all the elements that we had in 1978- 80 in Boston. In Boston he was traded to a team that was in a serious situation and had a very popular but overrated contribution perception that was not going to resign unless we grossly overpaid him and was injury prone. We had ZERO chances of resigning Perk unless we forgo our commitment to the players that were actually responsible  for our championship (Perk or Rondo ?), a rising tide raises all vessels.

     Green right now is a mix of Bobby Jones and Alex English. He is a phenom physically but, not this years model. Bobby Jones could run faster,jump higher and was more overall athletic than 99.999.....% percent of the league but doing it in an age where David Stern decided to go more "Urban"  and have more clearly defined stereotypical "roles" in that certain players be more easibly defined and marketed for diifferent demographic audiences. Alex English was one the most prolific offensivive players ever but, like the Big O was so good and was so effective his game was boring to all but the purest of basketball fans. Now he may not be a future HOFer but you can't deny the similular conditions to 2 excellent players mentioned who be came only appreciated until they weren't always in the worst situations.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Right now Green is better than Pierce.


    You're right, right now Green is playing way better than Pierce. Your statistical arguement is fools gold put Green in the same role as Pierce and your arguement will fold like a cheap suit. Green has to adjust his game every couple of minutes while Pierce can miss 10 shots and will still get the touches to miss 10 more,apples and oranges. I'm not saying Pierce is done by any means but he definately has to assume a different mindset and role if we are to have a shot at making a legit run,I don't want to trade PP,especially since his play lately will not get us the return we want or help us this season or the future.



    Not even close. 

     

     




     

     



     

    I don't really have to say anything else.

    Per 36 minutes Pierce 20.4 points, 6.2 boards, 4.1 assists

    Jeff green 14.5 points 4.9 boards 1.4 assists.

     




    You left out turnovers and poor defense.

     

     

     

    Turnovers per 36 Pierce 2.6 and Green 2.0

    does that half turnover a game make up for the 6 points, 2 boards and 3 more assists Pierce brings?

    Sorry to keep bringing up statistics. 

     




    Pierce can't defend anymore.

     

    Sorry to bring up half the game.

      No you're not!!


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Right now Green is better than Pierce.


    You're right, right now Green is playing way better than Pierce. Your statistical arguement is fools gold put Green in the same role as Pierce and your arguement will fold like a cheap suit. Green has to adjust his game every couple of minutes while Pierce can miss 10 shots and will still get the touches to miss 10 more,apples and oranges. I'm not saying Pierce is done by any means but he definately has to assume a different mindset and role if we are to have a shot at making a legit run,I don't want to trade PP,especially since his play lately will not get us the return we want or help us this season or the future.



    Not even close. 

     

     




     

     



     

    I don't really have to say anything else.

    Per 36 minutes Pierce 20.4 points, 6.2 boards, 4.1 assists

    Jeff green 14.5 points 4.9 boards 1.4 assists.

     




    You left out turnovers and poor defense.

     

     

     

    Turnovers per 36 Pierce 2.6 and Green 2.0

    does that half turnover a game make up for the 6 points, 2 boards and 3 more assists Pierce brings?

    Sorry to keep bringing up statistics. 

     




    Pierce can't defend anymore.

     

    Sorry to bring up half the game.



    Oh so you want Green to play because of D.

    Then just say so. Because in the rest of his game he is inferior to Pierce.

    I mean why make me point out how better Pierce is at scoring, rebounding and passing the ball.

    It would save us both a lot of time.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Petey62's comment:

     

    Snakeoil, now you know very well that if Pierce had to play 36 minutes EVERY NIGHT, his statistics would be nowhere near your projections.  That is what's left out.

    Pierce just isn't effective anymore playing big minutes.  I can see Martin finishing strong at the end of a game in which he's played 40 minutes.  I can't see Pierce like that.

    I'd venture to guess, merely from the "eye test", that Pierce's numbers would drop significantly with increased minutes ON A NIGHTLY BASIS. 

     




     

    He is playing 34 minutes a game right now. Not sure what you are talking about. Not being rude. Just saying I only did the 36 minutes to compare green and Pierce. I could pick 24 minutes, 48 minutes, 100 minutes.

    He is a lot more productive than Green is my only point.  that is a fact.

     



    I agree with you, SnakeOil, that Pierce is more productive.  But, that's because Pierce plays the role of a guy with the ball in his hands so much and also because Paul is more aggressive than Green.  Jeff Green is no Paul Pierce.   If, however, Green got a more prominent role, I also believe he would be more productive.  More importantly, if Pierce played LESS minutes, I think he'd have more energy and spring in his legs by game's end.   Green should start so that we can run more and open up the game.....then let Pierce come in during those situations where the game slows down and we need a better shooter.

     

    And by the way, SnakeOil, you wouldn't argue that Pierce doesn't hurt us at the end of games with his turnovers and inability to get his own shot off, would you?   Pierce should become, as Doc has even noted, our catch and shoot guy.  He shouldn't do much more than that at this stage of his career.   Ray was in better shape and could run around to catch and shoot.   Paul can't do that but with the proper picks, he can get open and be a half court catch and shoot option.  But, until his legs get better, he CANNOT be a 34 min/game guy - he is just too weary legged to do that any more.

     



    Well said BUT,Green if given the right chance, will be  as productive as  Pierce. Green has the unfortunate trait of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. In Seatle he was expected to instantly turn the franchise around in a year w/o any real help that was dealt away by a team that had ideal circumstances to leave town. In OKC he was an anchor for a team that over achieved  and had Kevin Durant and James Harden as picks the next 2 years and all the elements that we had in 1978- 80 in Boston. In Boston he was traded to a team that was in a serious situation and had a very popular but overrated contribution perception that was not going to resign unless we grossly overpaid him and was injury prone. We had ZERO chances of resigning Perk unless we forgo our commitment to the players that were actually responsible  for our championship (Perk or Rondo ?), a rising tide raises all vessels.

     

     Green right now is a mix of Bobby Jones and Alex English. He is a phenom physically but, not this years model. Bobby Jones could run faster,jump higher and was more overall athletic than 99.999.....% percent of the league but doing it in an age where David Stern decided to go more "Urban"  and have more clearly defined stereotypical "roles" in that certain players be more easibly defined and marketed for diifferent demographic audiences. Alex English was one the most prolific offensivive players ever but, like the Big O was so good and was so effective his game was boring to all but the purest of basketball fans. Now he may not be a future HOFer but you can't deny the similular conditions to 2 excellent players mentioned who be came only appreciated until they weren't always in the worst situations.




    Nice analogy.  I hadn't thought of Jones in years.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    I agree that Pierces game has dropped off.  But to say that Jeff Green is better?

    Come on. Green's best year isn't as good as Pierce's worst. That isn't an argument, it's a fact.

    I would be fine with Pierce being traded, just not fine with statements that aren't true.

     
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