Pierce is done

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    Re: Pierce is done

    It's not of who is better historically it is who is playing better now. You have totally missed the point, I don't think anyone can make a statistical arguement that career wise and situation wise historically that Pierce and Green can be evaluated equally. I'm not saying trade Pierce,I'm not saying that one has more ability than an other, I'm not sayimg that Pierce is no longer a key component to the success of our team,what I'm saying is that Pierce is no longer capable of playing 30+ minutes a game and be expected to be able to be the go to guy as he has been for about 15 years every freaking game. What I'm saying he would be just as valuable and effective if his workload was decreased day in day out and his being expected to be that guy after all these years is detrimental to both him and the team both now and down the road and impairs both his and the teams success. However, you are in complete denial if you don't think that Paul has cost us (with Doc as an enabler) games and chemistry right now.

    Consider this; We have Green play for 30+ right now and get a better sample of his overall capabilities and limitations. Paul gets his legs back and can play 100% of the Truth in less minutes saving having him be more able to be PP for the rest of his carreer and stays fresh during a championship run while  developing Greens new role in the future or realizing he may not be the guy while improving his value at the same time.It's a win/win Paul extends his career,Green gets the ability to be Green not PP substitute and they have a more positive chemistry while keeping a better level of success all the while during the passing of the torch. Hondo adjusted the transition of playing with Russell and Cowens and added to both after bearing the Rowe/Wicks/ brown doonboggle and is a HOFer and I think with a few adjustments so could Paul" the Truth" Pierce.You finally feel me player?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    I agree that Pierces game has dropped off.  But to say that Jeff Green is better?

    Come on. Green's best year isn't as good as Pierce's worst. That isn't an argument, it's a fact.

    I would be fine with Pierce being traded, just not fine with statements that aren't true.



    I don't think Green is better.  I just think he's younger and more athletic and would benefit from playing more while Paul is older and slower and would benefit by playing less.   Its the balance that isn't right at this point and especially in the beginning of the game and end of the game (Pierce obviously not playing well at the end).

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to concord27's comment:

     


    Acie,

     

    When it comes to Doc, you sound like Pud on Rondo. Doc has not solved the problems but he did in a miraculous way last year.  He is owed at least the rest of the season to right things.  For me I would still want him next year. He needs players,  Ainge screwed up not Doc. Ainge needs to fix it.




    we were so good and talent coordinated last year that KG gassed against miami and we were done.  this year KG AND PIERCE are gassed around game 50...... 

    the DIFFERENCE between this year and last year is pietrus and steamer as the bench vs. lee, terry, green, SHOULD HAVE BEEN DARKO.  bass has disapepared last year to this year, darko quit and went home rather than travel around the country and change from suit to suit and never play and green, terry and lee have not been given any sort of consistent role. 

    if we aren't "finding it" by now, then when will we?  i'd shut up if i saw any sort of progression but we're not moving away from the pass it till the shot clock dies 1/2 court offense.  last night we did for a while....  but that's been the exception.

    we have not gotten the most out of green, barbosa, bass, terry, lee.  simply true.  this is  a coach's job.  we have MORE BENCH TALENT this year than any other year, don't we?  the hard thing that needed to be done to start the year was pierce goes to the bench whenever green becomes able to play 28 minutes a game each night.  it's obvious that green is at that point and pierce still starts.

    more coaching issues.  everywhere i look i see coaching issues this year.  yes, it's up to the players to show up and perform, but in ever changing roles?!  pro basketball players are creatures of habit.  very few have been able to do the "everyman" thing with minutes and roles night to night.  honestly i can't think of the last one who could do that well....  which is why you need to work out a solid rotation / roles for people.

    rivers has NEVER been good at that.  it's happened more by attrition than anything else under his coaching tenure.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

    It's not of who is better historically it is who is playing better now. You have totally missed the point, I don't think anyone can make a statistical arguement that career wise and situation wise historically that Pierce and Green can be evaluated equally. I'm not saying trade Pierce,I'm not saying that one has more ability than an other, I'm not sayimg that Pierce is no longer a key component to the success of our team,what I'm saying is that Pierce is no longer capable of playing 30+ minutes a game and be expected to be able to be the go to guy as he has been for about 15 years every freaking game. What I'm saying he would be just as valuable and effective if his workload was decreased day in day out and his being expected to be that guy after all these years is detrimental to both him and the team both now and down the road and impairs both his and the teams success. However, you are in complete denial if you don't think that Paul has cost us (with Doc as an enabler) games and chemistry right now.

    Consider this; We have Green play for 30+ right now and get a better sample of his overall capabilities and limitations. Paul gets his legs back and can play 100% of the Truth in less minutes saving having him be more able to be PP for the rest of his carreer and stays fresh during a championship run while  developing Greens new role in the future or realizing he may not be the guy while improving his value at the same time.It's a win/win Paul extends his career,Green gets the ability to be Green not PP substitute and they have a more positive chemistry while keeping a better level of success all the while during the passing of the torch. Hondo adjusted the transition of playing with Russell and Cowens and added to both after bearing the Rowe/Wicks/ brown doonboggle and is a HOFer and I think with a few adjustments so could Paul" the Truth" Pierce.You finally feel me player?



    These stats are for this season.  2013.  And you say I missed the point.

    Per 36 minutes Pierce 20.4 points, 6.2 boards, 4.1 assists

    Jeff green 14.5 points 4.9 boards 1.4 assists.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    People that are crying for Green over Pierce miss the point.

    Trade Pierce for picks and play Green, playing Green and benching Pierce does nothing.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    If we win a few more games with Green playing more, and less playing time for Pierce especially when he is obviously struggling mightily while resting him for later part of the season.  That is not doing nothing.  Pierce could be more effective with less playing time if he can get over his bruised ego. If we have a good and right deal for Pierce on the table, by all means do it, but if we don't, keeping him while playing Green a little more is not a bad thing to try.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    People that are crying for Green over Pierce miss the point.

    Trade Pierce for picks and play Green, playing Green and benching Pierce does nothing.

     



    Then who backs up Green?

     



    BAss.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    Just because somebody doesn't start isn't benching. We need to keep PPs legs fresher and that ain't happening playing 30+ minutes  night.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    People that are crying for Green over Pierce miss the point.

    Trade Pierce for picks and play Green, playing Green and benching Pierce does nothing.

     



    Then who backs up Green?

     



    For the rest of the season that isn't going anywhere anyway?

    Anyone.  Michah Downs.  Who cares?

    The point is getting better for the future.

    Playing Green more minutes and Pierce less does nothing.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    People that are crying for Green over Pierce miss the point.

    Trade Pierce for picks and play Green, playing Green and benching Pierce does nothing.

     



    Then who backs up Green?

     

     



    For the rest of the season that isn't going anywhere anyway?

     

    Anyone.  Michah Downs.  Who cares?

    The point is getting better for the future.

    Playing Green more minutes and Pierce less does nothing.




    Snake, you may have already read this.   You are pretty much wasting time trying to convince the people who obviously have PP problems.  When/if they get what they want,  Green getting all the minutes,  either thru a PP trade, etc.,  it will be less than a month everyone will be harping on Green.  If not him it willl be Rondo.  There is always a rag doll around here where we are always think he grass is greener over there.  You wait when PP is gone,  poor Rondo will absorb the most, because he will have a huge target on his back. If Green is playing it will be the same. 

    I started laughing about how Korver abused him.  Maybe a coach should know that PP couldn't chase Korver everywhere,  PP doesn't have footspeed.  Maybe whoevers guys that set the pick on PP should step out and disrupt the shot? Maybe a player change which Doc did after all the damage was done, by putting Bradley on him,  someone that was physically capable of chasing Korver, getting around picks?  To blame PP for this is simply laughable.  Could KG stay with very athletic PF's?   I think we have seen that.

    Here are some PP stats for this year.  I am not in any fashion saying Pierce has played as good as I want either.

    Here's an example of how statistics can be deceptive:

    • Pierce is currently averaging his highest rebound total (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest assist total (per 36 minutes) in 5 seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest point total (per 36 minutes) in six seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his highest steals figure (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

    • Pierce's current turnover figure isn't great, but it's only his 7th worst (per 36 minutes) in his 15 seasons, and it's below his career average.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    People that are crying for Green over Pierce miss the point.

    Trade Pierce for picks and play Green, playing Green and benching Pierce does nothing.

     



    Then who backs up Green?

     

     



    For the rest of the season that isn't going anywhere anyway?

     

    Anyone.  Michah Downs.  Who cares?

    The point is getting better for the future.

    Playing Green more minutes and Pierce less does nothing.

     




     

    Snake, you may have already read this.   You are pretty much wasting time trying to convince the people who obviously have PP problems.  When/if they get what they want,  Green getting all the minutes,  either thru a PP trade, etc.,  it will be less than a month everyone will be harping on Green.  If not him it willl be Rondo.  There is always a rag doll around here where we are always think he grass is greener over there.  You wait when PP is gone,  poor Rondo will absorb the most, because he will have a huge target on his back. If Green is playing it will be the same. 

    I started laughing about how Korver abused him.  Maybe a coach should know that PP couldn't chase Korver everywhere,  PP doesn't have footspeed.  Maybe whoevers guys that set the pick on PP should step out and disrupt the shot? Maybe a player change which Doc did after all the damage was done, by putting Bradley on him,  someone that was physically capable of chasing Korver, getting around picks?  To blame PP for this is simply laughable.  Could KG stay with very athletic PF's?   I think we have seen that.

    Here are some PP stats for this year.  I am not in any fashion saying Pierce has played as good as I want either.

    Here's an example of how statistics can be deceptive:

    • Pierce is currently averaging his highest rebound total (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest assist total (per 36 minutes) in 5 seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest point total (per 36 minutes) in six seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his highest steals figure (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

    • Pierce's current turnover figure isn't great, but it's only his 7th worst (per 36 minutes) in his 15 seasons, and it's below his career average.

     



    It is just hilarious. Pierce is not the problem.  A small forward averaging 19, 6 and 4 is not the problem.

    Wow.

    Like I said if he get traded then so  be it. But to say that Green is better? Amazing.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    People that are crying for Green over Pierce miss the point.

    Trade Pierce for picks and play Green, playing Green and benching Pierce does nothing.

     



    Then who backs up Green?

     

     



    For the rest of the season that isn't going anywhere anyway?

     

    Anyone.  Michah Downs.  Who cares?

    The point is getting better for the future.

    Playing Green more minutes and Pierce less does nothing.

     




     

    Snake, you may have already read this.   You are pretty much wasting time trying to convince the people who obviously have PP problems.  When/if they get what they want,  Green getting all the minutes,  either thru a PP trade, etc.,  it will be less than a month everyone will be harping on Green.  If not him it willl be Rondo.  There is always a rag doll around here where we are always think he grass is greener over there.  You wait when PP is gone,  poor Rondo will absorb the most, because he will have a huge target on his back. If Green is playing it will be the same. 

    I started laughing about how Korver abused him.  Maybe a coach should know that PP couldn't chase Korver everywhere,  PP doesn't have footspeed.  Maybe whoevers guys that set the pick on PP should step out and disrupt the shot? Maybe a player change which Doc did after all the damage was done, by putting Bradley on him,  someone that was physically capable of chasing Korver, getting around picks?  To blame PP for this is simply laughable.  Could KG stay with very athletic PF's?   I think we have seen that.

    Here are some PP stats for this year.  I am not in any fashion saying Pierce has played as good as I want either.

    Here's an example of how statistics can be deceptive:

    • Pierce is currently averaging his highest rebound total (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest assist total (per 36 minutes) in 5 seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest point total (per 36 minutes) in six seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his highest steals figure (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

    • Pierce's current turnover figure isn't great, but it's only his 7th worst (per 36 minutes) in his 15 seasons, and it's below his career average.

     



    The whole thing is defined by what you say there will always be someone blame because the team will not be any good and scapegoats will have to be found.  Trades could help but the reality is the team is in transition not title mode.  All very disappointing considering we started the season with high expectations.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Pierce is done

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    People that are crying for Green over Pierce miss the point.

    Trade Pierce for picks and play Green, playing Green and benching Pierce does nothing.

     



    Then who backs up Green?

     

     



    For the rest of the season that isn't going anywhere anyway?

     

    Anyone.  Michah Downs.  Who cares?

    The point is getting better for the future.

    Playing Green more minutes and Pierce less does nothing.

     




     

    Snake, you may have already read this.   You are pretty much wasting time trying to convince the people who obviously have PP problems.  When/if they get what they want,  Green getting all the minutes,  either thru a PP trade, etc.,  it will be less than a month everyone will be harping on Green.  If not him it willl be Rondo.  There is always a rag doll around here where we are always think he grass is greener over there.  You wait when PP is gone,  poor Rondo will absorb the most, because he will have a huge target on his back. If Green is playing it will be the same. 

    I started laughing about how Korver abused him.  Maybe a coach should know that PP couldn't chase Korver everywhere,  PP doesn't have footspeed.  Maybe whoevers guys that set the pick on PP should step out and disrupt the shot? Maybe a player change which Doc did after all the damage was done, by putting Bradley on him,  someone that was physically capable of chasing Korver, getting around picks?  To blame PP for this is simply laughable.  Could KG stay with very athletic PF's?   I think we have seen that.

    Here are some PP stats for this year.  I am not in any fashion saying Pierce has played as good as I want either.

    Here's an example of how statistics can be deceptive:

    • Pierce is currently averaging his highest rebound total (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest assist total (per 36 minutes) in 5 seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his second-highest point total (per 36 minutes) in six seasons.

    • Pierce is currently averaging his highest steals figure (per 36 minutes) in 8 seasons.

    • Pierce's current turnover figure isn't great, but it's only his 7th worst (per 36 minutes) in his 15 seasons, and it's below his career average.

     



    The whole thing is defined by what you say there will always be someone blame because the team will not be any good and scapegoats will have to be found.  Trades could help but the reality is the team is in transition not title mode.  All very disappointing considering we started the season with high expectations.

     
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