Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    A nicer way of saying "you're fired, Billy Hunter?"

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7234180/nba-lockout-players-not-accept-deal-seek-decertify-billy-hunter-says

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216528/Players_Union_Issues_Disclaimer_Of_Interest

    Yep, decertification will take a few months, and, as Fierce said - go ahead and cancel the season NOW, Mr. Stern!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from btownteamsrking. Show btownteamsrking's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    fisher and david stern doing the negotiations........honestly, id rather have Tony "TA" Allen and Delonte "guns in my guitar case" West in this discussion. Really, they can't go any slower than these morons.

    where the f is scal when u need his smart thoughts? save the season Scal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]A nicer way of saying "you're fired, Billy Hunter?" http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7234180/nba-lockout-players-not-accept-deal-seek-decertify-billy-hunter-says http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216528/Players_Union_Issues_Disclaimer_Of_Interest Yep, decertification will take a few months, and, as Fierce said - go ahead and cancel the season NOW, Mr. Stern!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]
    This is want the NFL players did and it worked out alright for them...
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    None of this has gone as pundits have predicted.  I don't know if its a stupid more by the players or not......    I think the jury is still out on what will happen and what agreement is made (and when its made).   We're all in for a long interesting battle here.   

    I was really looking forward to this season, too.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    Read this a few minutes ago on ESPN:

    All players will be represented in a class-action suit against the NBA by attorneys Jeffrey Kessler and David Boies -- who were on opposite sides of the NFL labor dispute, Kessler working for the players, Boies for the league.

    "The fact that the two biggest legal adversaries in the NFL players dispute over the NFL lockout both agree that the NBA lockout is now illegal and subject to triple damages speaks for itself," Kessler said in an email to The Associated Press. "I am delighted to work together with David Boies on behalf of the NBA players."

    I wonder what the real facts are.  Each side is in the midst of a major propoganda effort.  But, if there's one person I trust least of all to admit ANY mistakes and to hide his own failures - its Stern.  The guy will NEVER admit to a mistake....witness the basketball change one season, the errors by refs, etc.  

    Don't know who's right, but its going to be an interesting fight!!!
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    Yes, I blame Stern for not holding refs accountable for how they call the games.  We're off topic, but to clarify my point - when Donohee (sp?) claimed that refs let their biases against players affect how they called games, he was right.  When we watch refs completely out of control thinking the game is about them, Stern defends them at all pricess.  He fines ANY player or coach or owner who says ANYTHING negative against the refs (Doc, Phil, Cuban, and others have all been fined as have players).   

    That's what I mean - Stern is NEVER open and honest about things that the NBA does wrong.  Unlike the NFL who will tell you that refs made a mistake that cost the game or admits they need to help the refs get better - Stern just says "oh, we have the best in the world and I love our refs".   I don't expect him to throw them under the bus, but I expect him to be like everyone else - admit when there's improvement required and don't fine every person for saying every little thing in frustration!!
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]Read this a few minutes ago on ESPN: All players will be represented in a class-action suit against the NBA by attorneys Jeffrey Kessler and David Boies -- who were on opposite sides of the NFL labor dispute, Kessler working for the players, Boies for the league. "The fact that the two biggest legal adversaries in the NFL players dispute over the NFL lockout both agree that the NBA lockout is now illegal and subject to triple damages speaks for itself," Kessler said in an email to The Associated Press. "I am delighted to work together with David Boies on behalf of the NBA players." I wonder what the real facts are.  Each side is in the midst of a major propoganda effort.  But, if there's one person I trust least of all to admit ANY mistakes and to hide his own failures - its Stern.  The guy will NEVER admit to a mistake....witness the basketball change one season, the errors by refs, etc.   Don't know who's right, but its going to be an interesting fight!!!
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    It's not a question of right or wrong, it's a question of leverage- the owners wield all the power here - and they've already filed a lawsuit. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    I didn't blame Stern solely for this mess.  Read my post.   I said BOTH SIDES ARE ENGAGED IN A PROPOGANDA WAR.....but the one person I believe the least in what he says publicly is David Stern.  I stand by that statement.  Stern NEVER, I repeat NEVER shows that he could be wrong or that his position is flexible.  He's arrogant.

    He is a brilliant guy in many many ways.  he has grown the NBA (too often promoting the individual but at least he had success).  He's made the game an International game of immense popularity.  He brought the Dream Team together.  He made the NBA the move diverse in management of the major leagues.  I admire much of what he's done.

    But, I still say he is a guy who will not say publicly "we need a deal".  Instead, he'll say "Billy Hunter is irresponsible" or he'll say "take this offer or the next one will be worse (a threat by any definition)".  One he said those words, he tried to deny that its a threat.   He blames only the players for the fact that the season is likely lost.

    Well - BOTH sides are to blame.  I am a fan who's not going to see games because they are both irresponsible.  But, Stern is not credible in this.  I do not buy anything he says.  I don't blame him for the situation.....but he's clearly a part of it and his words ring MORE hollow than others based on how he's carried himself over time (and the fines against ANYONE who says ANYTHING against him shows he is not exactly an open minded guy).
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tachometrix. Show Tachometrix's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    OWNERS = BOSS

    players = employees

    David Stern = Commissioner

    OWNERS VS. players - OWNERS WIN

    David Stern vs. Billy Hunter - Stern wins

    OWNERS + David Stern = NBA

    It is what it is.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]I didn't blame Stern solely for this mess.  Read my post.   I said BOTH SIDES ARE ENGAGED IN A PROPOGANDA WAR.....but the one person I believe the least in what he says publicly is David Stern.  I stand by that statement.  Stern NEVER, I repeat NEVER shows that he could be wrong or that his position is flexible.  He's arrogant. He is a brilliant guy in many many ways.  he has grown the NBA (too often promoting the individual but at least he had success).  He's made the game an International game of immense popularity.  He brought the Dream Team together.  He made the NBA the move diverse in management of the major leagues.  I admire much of what he's done. But, I still say he is a guy who will not say publicly "we need a deal".  Instead, he'll say "Billy Hunter is irresponsible" or he'll say "take this offer or the next one will be worse (a threat by any definition)".  One he said those words, he tried to deny that its a threat.   He blames only the players for the fact that the season is likely lost. Well - BOTH sides are to blame.  I am a fan who's not going to see games because they are both irresponsible.  But, Stern is not credible in this.  I do not buy anything he says.  I don't blame him for the situation.....but he's clearly a part of it and his words ring MORE hollow than others based on how he's carried himself over time (and the fines against ANYONE who says ANYTHING against him shows he is not exactly an open minded guy).
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Bill Russell, a guy who took a whole lot of heat for getting the union going back in the 1960's, a guy who knew Stern before he was NBA commish, had many, many nice things to say about Stern recently.

    You might want to open your mind a bit and reconsider your position.

    BRussell has more than enough cred in this matter as he was there when the players' union was born... as was Stern.

    Pud
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    I certainly agree with Celtsfan4life regarding Stern and his gestapo like tactics when it comes to protecting the lousy, corrupt NBA refs. 

    Also, to the poster asking was it much better when we had replacement refs....YES!!!!!!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"



    In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]I didn't blame Stern solely for this mess.  Read my post.   I said BOTH SIDES ARE ENGAGED IN A PROPOGANDA WAR.....but the one person I believe the least in what he says publicly is David Stern.  I stand by that statement.  Stern NEVER, I repeat NEVER shows that he could be wrong or that his position is flexible.  He's arrogant. He is a brilliant guy in many many ways.  he has grown the NBA (too often promoting the individual but at least he had success).  He's made the game an International game of immense popularity.  He brought the Dream Team together.  He made the NBA the move diverse in management of the major leagues.  I admire much of what he's done. But, I still say he is a guy who will not say publicly "we need a deal".  Instead, he'll say "Billy Hunter is irresponsible" or he'll say "take this offer or the next one will be worse (a threat by any definition)".  One he said those words, he tried to deny that its a threat.   He blames only the players for the fact that the season is likely lost. Well - BOTH sides are to blame.  I am a fan who's not going to see games because they are both irresponsible.  But, Stern is not credible in this.  I do not buy anything he says.  I don't blame him for the situation.....but he's clearly a part of it and his words ring MORE hollow than others based on how he's carried himself over time (and the fines against ANYONE who says ANYTHING against him shows he is not exactly an open minded guy).
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]b

    Do you really expect David Stern to say "I'm part of the reason and blame for this mess" in the heat of negotiations? C'mon..

    IT's always so easy to say both sides are to blame for everything. Even little 6 year olds in a shoving match on the playground...both get punished at school cause they were both to blame.. just a politically correct thing to do and the easy way out imo.

    I dont blame either side for negotiating for the deal they need. I may question how bright one side may or may not be but not for posturing and using all their negotiating tools to meet their objectives.

    Sterns "threats" of a worse deal if the current one isnt accepted isnt a threat. He's laid out the reasons why so the players can appreciate the sincerity and logic behind his proposition. Stern doesnt have all the leverage to threaten the players...It's not like they are in a locked room and Stern has the only gun with bullets.

    They both have a degree of leverage (owners more so) but if the players feel they are stronger and have the wherewithall to outlast the owners, then they cant be threatened.  It has no merit.  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]I didn't blame Stern solely for this mess.  Read my post.   I said BOTH SIDES ARE ENGAGED IN A PROPOGANDA WAR.....but the one person I believe the least in what he says publicly is David Stern.  I stand by that statement.  Stern NEVER, I repeat NEVER shows that he could be wrong or that his position is flexible.  He's arrogant. He is a brilliant guy in many many ways.  he has grown the NBA (too often promoting the individual but at least he had success).  He's made the game an International game of immense popularity.  He brought the Dream Team together.  He made the NBA the move diverse in management of the major leagues.  I admire much of what he's done. But, I still say he is a guy who will not say publicly "we need a deal".  Instead, he'll say "Billy Hunter is irresponsible" or he'll say "take this offer or the next one will be worse (a threat by any definition)".  One he said those words, he tried to deny that its a threat.   He blames only the players for the fact that the season is likely lost. Well - BOTH sides are to blame.  I am a fan who's not going to see games because they are both irresponsible.  But, Stern is not credible in this.  I do not buy anything he says.  I don't blame him for the situation.....but he's clearly a part of it and his words ring MORE hollow than others based on how he's carried himself over time (and the fines against ANYONE who says ANYTHING against him shows he is not exactly an open minded guy).
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]


    Unfortunately, Stern doesn't work for the NBA - he works for the owners.  It is THEIR league  - not the players.  The players can't replace Stern, but the owners can..............and the players have had it soft for way too long.  Sharing in the profits, guaranteed, overpriced contracts, the ability to go anywhere they want via free agency - something had to give.......and Stern has been about as honest as he can publicly be about the whole scenario.  If you've followed the whole mess, aren't the players the ones complaining about lack of information?  NOT Stern's fault on that one!
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest" : Unfortunately, Stern doesn't work for the NBA - he works for the owners.  It is THEIR league  - not the players.  The players can't replace Stern, but the owners can..............and the players have had it soft for way too long.  Sharing in the profits, guaranteed, overpriced contracts, the ability to go anywhere they want via free agency - something had to give.......and Stern has been about as honest as he can publicly be about the whole scenario.  If you've followed the whole mess, aren't the players the ones complaining about lack of information?  NOT Stern's fault on that one!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]


    I didn't hear the players saying it was a lack of information.  I saw Derek Fisher's interview.  he said that the players made a decision based on understanding the facts.  he went on to say that while Stern thinks they don't understand, he was insulting them.  He said the players fully understand the deal, that the deal was unacceptable, and that they considered all their options and knowingly decided that this option, albeit very ugly, was their only choice.

    On Stern - I stand by my comment.  he's a jerk and yes, while working for the owners, he didn't have to publicly insult the players and Hunter.  He can make his point - however firmly and emphatically - in the meetings but not insult the other party publicly.  That's what inflames any fight.  If I insult you publicly, you have little place to go except to insult me and to get angry - affecting our negotiation.  Whenever I am doing a business deal, I try to respect the other person (even if inside I think they are a jerk).  To do otherwise will only anger them and hamper me from getting to my ultimate goal - a DEAL!   

    Trying to intimidate the other party when they feel they can fight back only leads to one thing - escalation to war!  Stern is not responsible for the war, but he sure isn't helping it in the way he's representing his owners publicly.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest" : Bill Russell, a guy who took a whole lot of heat for getting the union going back in the 1960's, a guy who knew Stern before he was NBA commish, had many, many nice things to say about Stern recently. You might want to open your mind a bit and reconsider your position. BRussell has more than enough cred in this matter as he was there when the players' union was born... as was Stern. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]


    Try reading again, Pud.  I think you're only getting the tidbits.  I said a LOT of things about Stern that are positive.  I respect him for a lot of what he did.  But, I don't respect how he treats others publicly and his arrogance.   Go back and read my comments on him.   I gave him a LOT of credit for a lot of good things he's done.   But, he is smug and arrogant and insulting and never self critical.   Once in a while, he should try saying "The players took their position and we will now have the courts decide" rather than "they are irresponsible and they don't understand and if they don't take this deal we'll lower our offer more".   

    Trying to insult and intimidate in public is not a good negotiation tactic no matter what else he's done that was positive in the past.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest" : b Do you really expect David Stern to say "I'm part of the reason and blame for this mess" in the heat of negotiations? C'mon.. IT's always so easy to say both sides are to blame for everything. Even little 6 year olds in a shoving match on the playground...both get punished at school cause they were both to blame.. just a politically correct thing to do and the easy way out imo. I dont blame either side for negotiating for the deal they need. I may question how bright one side may or may not be but not for posturing and using all their negotiating tools to meet their objectives. Sterns "threats" of a worse deal if the current one isnt accepted isnt a threat. He's laid out the reasons why so the players can appreciate the sincerity and logic behind his proposition. Stern doesnt have all the leverage to threaten the players...It's not like they are in a locked room and Stern has the only gun with bullets. They both have a degree of leverage (owners more so) but if the players feel they are stronger and have the wherewithall to outlast the owners, then they cant be threatened.  It has no merit.  
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    No, Karl.  I just expect him not to insult the other guy.  He should be like the other owners and the players - respectful and simply say "we don't agree".   No need to start insulting the other party and fanning the fire.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from FlobusMcNugget. Show FlobusMcNugget's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]A nicer way of saying "you're fired, Billy Hunter?" http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7234180/nba-lockout-players-not-accept-deal-seek-decertify-billy-hunter-says http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216528/Players_Union_Issues_Disclaimer_Of_Interest Yep, decertification will take a few months, and, as Fierce said - go ahead and cancel the season NOW, Mr. Stern!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]
    Read somewhere that the players' "disclaimer of interest" is a distinction worth noting - it will be seen and resolved by a judge far quicker than would a decertification.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest" : Try reading again, Pud.  I think you're only getting the tidbits.  I said a LOT of things about Stern that are positive.  I respect him for a lot of what he did.  But, I don't respect how he treats others publicly and his arrogance.   Go back and read my comments on him.   I gave him a LOT of credit for a lot of good things he's done.   But, he is smug and arrogant and insulting and never self critical.   Once in a while, he should try saying "The players took their position and we will now have the courts decide" rather than "they are irresponsible and they don't understand and if they don't take this deal we'll lower our offer more".    Trying to insult and intimidate in public is not a good negotiation tactic no matter what else he's done that was positive in the past.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    True, you say things about Stern that are positive.....  but you SCREAM.... I repeat.... SCREAM  that he has serious character flaws.

    "but the one person I believe the least in what he says publicly is David Stern.  I stand by that statement.  Stern NEVER, I repeat NEVER shows that he could be wrong or that his position is flexible.  He's arrogant. 


    I don't blame him for the situation.....but he's clearly a part of it and his words ring MORE hollow than others based on how he's carried himself over time (and the fines against ANYONE who says ANYTHING against him...."

    This is way over the top IMHO and not anywhere close to being objective/fair/balanced.

    And you are not alone in vilifying him. Its quite  the sport at BDC and has been for quite some time.


    Pud
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    Yes, its true I scream about his arrogance.  I hate that part of him.   I can be objective about his assets but I truly hate his arrogance and his smugness in how he deals publicly with reporters, coaches, owners, and players.  

    No doubt about how I feel about that part of Mr. Stern.   
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest"

    In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Players reject offer - Hunter recommends "disclaimer of interest" : I didn't hear the players saying it was a lack of information.  I saw Derek Fisher's interview.  he said that the players made a decision based on understanding the facts.  he went on to say that while Stern thinks they don't understand, he was insulting them.  He said the players fully understand the deal, that the deal was unacceptable, and that they considered all their options and knowingly decided that this option, albeit very ugly, was their only choice. On Stern - I stand by my comment.  he's a jerk and yes, while working for the owners, he didn't have to publicly insult the players and Hunter.  He can make his point - however firmly and emphatically - in the meetings but not insult the other party publicly.  That's what inflames any fight.  If I insult you publicly, you have little place to go except to insult me and to get angry - affecting our negotiation.  Whenever I am doing a business deal, I try to respect the other person (even if inside I think they are a jerk).  To do otherwise will only anger them and hamper me from getting to my ultimate goal - a DEAL!    Trying to intimidate the other party when they feel they can fight back only leads to one thing - escalation to war!  Stern is not responsible for the war, but he sure isn't helping it in the way he's representing his owners publicly.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Just last week Hunter and Fisher were both claiming the other was working behind  the backs of the Union trying to get a deal done.  I have read MANY articles where the players aren't happy with the depth and speed of into available to them.  They basically took Fisher and Hunter's word for it...
     Finally- I PREDICT (yes, here we go again) that before this case makes it to trial, the owners will make one more offer to the players.  It will include massive system changes, and 52% of BRI for the players- then they will have negotiated in good faith (since that is what the players say they want), and the ruling will be in the owners favor.  Stern is no dummy, even though that's what Red used to call him...:)

    http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/11/nba-lockout-players-uninformed-about-lockout-proceedings-only-have-themselves-to-blame-.html
     

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