Pondering Doc & Rajon

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Pondering Doc & Rajon

    With all this speculation on the return of Doc as coach of the C's, something seems to be missing from this equation to me. It hasn't hit me till recently what it was. Just have to ask the right question, or questions, as it turns out. How is Doc's relationship with his star pointgaurd? To me, that's the determining factor for his return (if PP & KG have seen their last days for the C's).

    In most situations in this league, when a coach has a star caliber player with the heart of a winner (ala Rajon), they usually partner up with them to the point of "As long as ""so & so" is in a "so & so" uniform, I'll be here". Does Doc see Rondo as a champion that he wants to ride/coach to the top? Or was his guys PP, KG, and Ray? PP & KG? PP? Or Kg? If they aren't here, does he still have the same passion in coaching this team? Does he not respect/believe-in Rondo to wanna come along on Rondo's journey? Could that be a tell-tale sign about our young stud pointguard?

    I don't recall hearing any tid-bits about Doc & Rajons relationship either on or off the court. Anyone know how these two get along? If Paul and KG are gone, THAT to me is the key to Docs return.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    doc has enabled rajon to become a headcase who is worthless to the franchise.  they both need to be gotten rid of.  did doc EVER "COACH" the kid by letting on that "you won't get big minutes until those FT's are at 75%"?  nope. 


    and rondo took advantage of a wet noodle coach.  they are a pathetic tandem.

    but worse than that, rivers, in his own words, despises coaching young players.  maybe that's why he never bothered to coach rondo at all.  just let him do his stuff like he's a 32 y/o veteran

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    Since the acq of RA and KG...we should have won 3 titles but only have one to show for it..

    Doc has alienated so many good roles players  its sad... his in game coaching and strategy is pathetic, his rotations awful, random and arbitrary.... and of course, he enabled the monster thats tearing down this team..RONDO

    How well we played once Rondo was out.... the team naturally played better in spite of Docs ineptness because it was forced into playing team ball....not Rondo ball which DOc forced down their throats.

    Only then did Doc try to take a bow for the teams play... like he planned it all along. No Doc, the team had already slipped away and were revitalized once the diva was gone and your drive to have all Celtic fortune forced through Rondos hands and stats mercifully came to an end

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    There as been *some* question regarding Doc's return.

     

    I think that Doc's return next year is going to be very telling, and one of three things:

    1. Danny resigns himself to the fact that there's just not enough value in a complete blow-it-up scenerio this summer, ownerships chimes in and says they want to retire PP and KG together in Green and to bring everyone back for one final year will keep fans interested. This plan would revolve around the sure fact that KG, PP retire after next year, and Doc moves on. 

    2. Doc returns: I think if he returns and either PP or KG get traded or retire, this signals Doc's confidence in both the current pieces and Danny's ability to rebuild on the fly. I don't see Doc going through the entire re-build process again like in 2003. Bottom line: Doc's return for a rebuild signals his confidence in a Rondo + Green combo good enough to contend.

    3. Doc 'retires': If Doc does not come back, I think this signals the fact that the current assets on our team are not good enough to build with and around. I think Doc retires if he and danny assess that a 2003 like rebuild needs to take place in which likely Rondo, Green, Bass, etc are gone for picks and young assets.

     

    Ultimately what I'm trying to say is if Doc returns to a team that doesn't reek of 'our final year', it will be a GREAT sign. I trust Doc, and you all should too. The decision ultimately revolves around whether they assess Rondo and Green as able to reach another level (all-stars).

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Number6Fan. Show Number6Fan's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    Doc's status next year is dependent on only two things:

    1)  Does he want to coach next year?  (That's what he's deciding now.)

    2) Does he have a good relationship with Danny/the ownership?

    I think the answer to the second is "yes."  And for most any coach, that's the deciding factor for staying with an organization.   Rondo has little to do with it.  He trusts Danny to buy the groceries, and he'll whip up a meal with whatever's on hand.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    R9R- why would you get rid of green?  give him a point guard who will run and from all outward appearances you have a signifcant asset on the roster for 9M bucks.  other than that, i'm tired of looking at everything else.  save sullinger and bradley and scrap everything else, including doc.

    doc has been a terrible young player coach.  rondo is the living proof of that.  rondo's game has not improved since his rookie year.  it's wavered betwen getting slightly better and then slightly worse skills wise.  this year he finally crested SIXTY PERCENT in free throws but strangled out our tempo and ball movement so as to ensure he was "worth" his salary and got his 10 dimes a game.  really, that is a pathetic existence.

     

    and consider this: we had NO BACKUP to rondo yet go on a tear after rondo's iron claw over the tempo and ball movement is released.  that's how bad rondo was.  and how bad rondo was = how bad doc IS as a coach.  no control over anything, zero ability to coach anyone, just rah, rah and all that.  he invented the word ubumtu.  and then promptly drove every role player worth having out of town who could have helped us to win another cup.  brilliant.

    doc needs to retire.  he needed to move on after we lost in 7 to the lakers

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Since the acq of RA and KG...we should have won 3 titles but only have one to show for it..




    In which year besides the first of the big three era, we had the best team and were favorites to win the title? IMO in not a single year after the first title (not after KG went down in the second year). Please tell me in which year we had the best team in your opinion? I think also the "experts" had not got the celtics as a favorite for the title in a single year after KG has blown his knee.

    Actually I think in all years besides this year, when we lost in 6 in the first round just as I expected, we overachieved EVERY postseason (or won the title when we were supposed to win it).

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    I have gotten to the point where just the mention of the names Doc and Rondo make me shutter.

    Like hearing Raef LaFrentz and Sebastian Telfair.



    That's because you're insane.

     

    Regards

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    You Doc haters need to stop now, he is coming back. Its confirmed.

    This means:

    Rondo stays

    Greeen stays

    and more likely that KG finishes with the Celtics.

     

    Acie, the reason you'd trade Green is if you assess internally that he's not going to be that really good 2nd option. Doc was asking a lot of Jeff, and he certainly showed us a lot, but who knows what went on behind the scenes. Doc works with these guys every day, so he is in a position to assess whether Jeff has that fire inside his belly.

    Docs back, so I think that shows confidence in a quick turn around, and that means big changes, but not with the franchise players: Jeff & Rondo

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from srinivasa. Show srinivasa's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to R9R's comment:

    You Doc haters need to stop now, he is coming back. Its confirmed.

    This means:

    Rondo stays

    Greeen stays

    and more likely that KG finishes with the Celtics.

     

    Acie, the reason you'd trade Green is if you assess internally that he's not going to be that really good 2nd option. Doc was asking a lot of Jeff, and he certainly showed us a lot, but who knows what went on behind the scenes. Doc works with these guys every day, so he is in a position to assess whether Jeff has that fire inside his belly.

    Docs back, so I think that shows confidence in a quick turn around, and that means big changes, but not with the franchise players: Jeff & Rondo



    I don't know wether I like them as our franchise players, where will they lead us? And Bradley showed us how limited he is on offense and will Sully's back hold up? We have some nice young pieces but nothing more than that. Nothing to build around anyway.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdLewsBias. Show BirdLewsBias's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Since the acq of RA and KG...we should have won 3 titles but only have one to show for it..

    Doc has alienated so many good roles players  its sad... his in game coaching and strategy is pathetic, his rotations awful, random and arbitrary.... and of course, he enabled the monster thats tearing down this team..RONDO

    How well we played once Rondo was out.... the team naturally played better in spite of Docs ineptness because it was forced into playing team ball....not Rondo ball which DOc forced down their throats.

    Only then did Doc try to take a bow for the teams play... like he planned it all along. No Doc, the team had already slipped away and were revitalized once the diva was gone and your drive to have all Celtic fortune forced through Rondos hands and stats mercifully came to an end



    +1

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    Doc is a really good coach.  In five years he coached the Celtics to two finals and was a game from a third.  The team had significant injuries, if Garnett had not been injured in 2009 the Celtics may have won three or four championships.  It is all what if, but what is fact is Doc coached the team to maximum performance the last five years.  

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to concord27's comment:

    Doc is a really good coach.  In five years he coached the Celtics to two finals and was a game from a third.  The team had significant injuries, if Garnett had not been injured in 2009 the Celtics may have won three or four championships.  It is all what if, but what is fact is Doc coached the team to maximum performance the last five years.  



    So true. Last year no Green, no Bradley at the end. Ray on bad ankles, Pierce sprained knee, Wilcox gone. Stiemsa with bad feet, and Pitrius with a bad knee and so on and so on. One game from the finals. That is a great coach. 

     

    THis year we lose our best player and people act like if only doc had played Shavlick Randolph at center instead of bass we'd be world champs. Uhm, no. Knicks still would have beat us. 

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    OK.... mainly a bunch of Doc ranting/complaints. Can't people stay on topic on this board? R9R & Number6Fan, thank you for staying on topic. Though, I'ld have to disagree w/ you R9R that Rondo plays no factor in Doc's decision. Word has come out now that Doc will be back. I'm happy about that, cause regardless of his faults (every coach/human being has faults, get over it), He has a great relationship w/ DA/ownership, he's a draw for FA's, and he's a players coach. Players love, and want to play for Doc Rivers. Some of these complaints i'm reading, I just wanna laugh. These same complaints could be made for every coach in this league. I'm not going to single any one poster out, but any coach short of being the Bobby Fisher of pro basketball will be disliked by fans who know the game. No coach can do it all. Offense, defense, best rotations, player matchups, player developement, drawing up plays, who's got the hot hand, reading the opponent, time management (both shot clock and players minutes), great feel for the game.... just to scratch the surface. On top of the things I mentioned before, i think we have a good chess player who's pretty good with the X's and O's. If Doc is truely back..... I'm smiling. He's a Celtic!

    P.S. - Please lord, don't ever let me become a finger pointer. Only David Stern, I promise.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from darkman20. Show darkman20's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

    ...In most situations in this league, when a coach has a star caliber player with the heart of a winner (ala Rajon)....




    Winners don't sit in their car in the parking lot before games, they are inside the arena working on their jumpshot.  

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to darkman20's comment:

     

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

     

    ...In most situations in this league, when a coach has a star caliber player with the heart of a winner (ala Rajon)....

     




    Winners don't sit in their car in the parking lot before games, they are inside the arena working on their jumpshot.  

     

     

     



     

    Are you being serious? I don't know whether you're being:

    a) a smarta**

    b) a dumba**

    c) serious

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and pick c. What exactly would you know about being a winner? Enlighten me.

    Awefully judgemental.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

    In response to darkman20's comment:

     

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

     

    ...In most situations in this league, when a coach has a star caliber player with the heart of a winner (ala Rajon)....

     




    Winners don't sit in their car in the parking lot before games, they are inside the arena working on their jumpshot.  

     

     

     



     

    Are you being serious? I don't know whether you're being:

    a) a smarta**

    b) a dumba**

    c) serious

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and pick c. What exactly would you know about being a winner? Enlighten me.

    Awefully judgemental.



    Darkman is a heat troll infesting our forum.  Or he is out in force now, along with his bretheren, because teh Celts are in transiton.  He and many others were missing from the forum because noticing positives in an extermely competitive situation is dangerous.  You can be more wrong than right.  These guys have crawled out now as it will be safe to bash everything and everybody and appear knowledgeable and be correct most of the time.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from darkman20. Show darkman20's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

     

    In response to prakash's comment:

     

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

     

    In response to darkman20's comment:

     

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

     

    ...In most situations in this league, when a coach has a star caliber player with the heart of a winner (ala Rajon)....

     




    Winners don't sit in their car in the parking lot before games, they are inside the arena working on their jumpshot.  

     

     

     



     

    Are you being serious? I don't know whether you're being:

    a) a smarta**

    b) a dumba**

    c) serious

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and pick c. What exactly would you know about being a winner? Enlighten me.

    Awefully judgemental.

     



    Darkman is a heat troll infesting our forum.  Or he is out in force now, along with his bretheren, because teh Celts are in transiton.  He and many others were missing from the forum because noticing positives in an extermely competitive situation is dangerous.  You can be more wrong than right.  These guys have crawled out now as it will be safe to bash everything and everybody and appear knowledgeable and be correct most of the time.

     

     



    That's not true, when is giving objective criticism being a troll.  I have been bashing Rondo even when the Celts were doing well, so it hasn't been like it's new or anything...it's not my fault that my years of pointing out his weakness has finally been brought to the light and made evident to so many now, which I have known all along.

    Rondo is extremely athletic and is talented, but he is 1 dimensional, there's no denying it.  He can't shoot, can't shoot FTs, and needs the ball in his hands to be effective.  It's been 6 years now and he hasn't improved and is still the same dude from 08, the only difference is Doc puts the ball in his hands 90% of the time now.  

    He also plays for assists, we seen him many times pass up layups to pass out for assists.

    He is stubborn and egotistic, we have all witness his tantrums when Doc benches him in the 4th.

    I would be the first to applaud him if he could change and become a better all around player, but he hasn't...it's been 6 yrs now.

    Rondo did say in his recent interview that he would try to change his game when he comes back, to not dominate the ball as much, ( I say when the cows jump over the moon.)  But even Rondo admits to the flaws of his game.

     The Celts should trade the guy, but the Celts want a allstar caliber player in return, but no teams will take him because they see the same flaws as I do.  Having Rondo will borg down the offense.  No team is going to give up a allstar caliber player for Rondo.   The Celts are stuck with him.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to darkman20's comment:


    That's not true, when is giving objective criticism being a troll.  I have been bashing Rondo even when the Celts were doing well, so it hasn't been like it's new or anything...it's not my fault that my years of pointing out his weakness has finally been brought to the light and made evident to so many now, which I have known all this along.

     

    Psssssst!: I've been here 3 years. This has been true from day uno.

    Used to be back in the good old days that you got put on BostonTrollSpanky's IGNORE list if you were right on the button.. and persisted in the face of sniping/bullying/name calling/dumbing down/loyalty questions/B.S./getting called out/cursing/you name it.

    Maybe Spanky gurl will resurrect her legendary IGNORE list.

    If she does, pray that you make the grade.

    As bomber pilots will tell you... When you are catching the most flak, the target is right ahead.

    Pud

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from teejaytee70. Show teejaytee70's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    I think Doc is overrated as well.  Before KG came here, Doc was on the verge of being fired.  Sick of hearing what a great recruiter he is....Chris Paul was just begging to come here (eyes rolling).  If we are a young team next year, I don't want Doc back.  Bring in Nate McMillan.  Let's move on.  Doc was the one begging Danny to bring in Courtney Lee last year because he was friendly with him....so now we're stuck with that albatross contract for the next 3 years. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Pondering Doc & Rajon

    In response to teejaytee70's comment:

    I think Doc is overrated as well.  Before KG came here, Doc was on the verge of being fired.  Sick of hearing what a great recruiter he is....Chris Paul was just begging to come here (eyes rolling).  If we are a young team next year, I don't want Doc back.  Bring in Nate McMillan.  Let's move on.  Doc was the one begging Danny to bring in Courtney Lee last year because he was friendly with him....so now we're stuck with that albatross contract for the next 3 years. 



    Amazing how insightful you are and how much you know about Danny's and Doc's conversations.   You know that Doc was on the verge of being fired.  You know that only Doc wanted Courtney Lee.  You even know what Chris Paul wanted and didn't want.   I'm amazed at how much you "know".  

    Maybe you even know why KG and Paul want to play for Doc and what they all talk about?   Hmmmm.   Maybe you know what Danny is thinking now about what he'll do next year?   

    Seriously, try not to make your conjecture part of your "doc hate" post.   If you don't like him and think we're better off without him, that's fine.   Just stop making up stuff to support your theory.

     
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