Post mortem

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    Post mortem

    I will start by saying that Danny is a gambler, and gamblers sometimes win, and sometimes they lose. In 2007 Danny brought the Big three together and gave up young talent. While this was probably not much of a gamble, he deserves much of the credit for the move.

    I have always said that it would be to early to judge the Perkins trade until the season was over. Now that it is, we can review the event without the fog of expectations or the media hype that is always involved.

    Danny made an unprecedented move. No other GM in NBA history has ever traded a starting player from a proven championship team for back-up players.
    Of course we had Shaq, and we had JO, and we needed a back up for Pierce. Krstic would also supply minutes as center, but he would eventually only play a third or a fourth string roll on the team.

    So what happened?

    The team went into a nose dive, playing without passion. Rondo more than any other player "lost his love for the game". He went into a funk, and spent the rest of the regular season acting as an immature child pouting over the loss of his friend. While this was not the only cause, Rondo's behavior probably had more to do with the Celtics losing home court advantage than any other factor.

    Shaq never really did come back. JO teased us with some good games but he was ultimately unable to even box out a 6'9" undersized throw-away center from Miami. Krystic played when JO could not, and while he has never played adequate defense, he did add some scoring in the Miami series.

    Joel Anthony was an undrafted 6'9" center that played a back-up role for the Heat when the series started. He became a starter as the series progressed.
    I have admit, that he played with drive and heart. However, the question has to be asked could a player of his size and pedigree have as much to do with the Miami wins, if he was being guarded and boxed out by Perkins, and all-NBA defensive center?

    Would Wade have as many points driving to the hoop if Perkins were playing?
    In the past, it has been the Celtic team defense that slowed Wade, with the bigs forming a wall on the strong side, and rotating quickly as the need arose. This year, while JO blocked some shots, he was too slow to get out of own way, and Krytic has no defensive ability what so ever.

    Jeff Green. Jeff is a very athletic player who learned to play some defense during the Miami series. As time went on, he got better and better against Lebron. Still, on this team his is a back up player that does most things at an acceptable level, but nothing at a high consistent level.  Near the end, he made some good shots, however, for most of the NY series, and much of the Miami series, he was invisible.

    So could we have won it all with Perkins? We will never know, but we do know what happened with out him.

    In my opinion, Danny gambled and lost this time.

    To win next year, the Gambler will need a good bluff, or some hidden aces.

     
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    Re: Post mortem

    Nice post!

    Ainge said the team didn't play as well as they could. They should be up 3-2 instead of sitting at home. Everyone talks about injuries and the trade BUT guess what the Big 3 were healthy all year and without them we are a 7th seed. LOL! So the problems weren't the Big 3 it's the supporting cast who had all the problems.

    Ainge probably believes he can get 2 more productive years out the Big 3 if he can put talent around them and a chance to win a title. You put CP3 on this team and we're still playing.

    What teams are threatening the C's in the East? Miami and Chicago and that's it. So this team can't beat those two teams with better talent around the Big 3??
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    Yes it would, and it would be nice if the other stars had Deloreans as well.
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    Bias, do you really think the Cs have a chance at Chris Paul?

    They really need another defensive minded center, and a well rounded point guard.

    It would Paul would be great. Nene would also be a big move for the Cs.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MinnesotaCelticsFan. Show MinnesotaCelticsFan's posts

    Re: Post mortem

    They all got old.

    Am I right? did I here Danny say that Pierce might come off  the bench next year?
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    Its nice to know that you agree with me

    "Best case scenario for next year is the Celts will be as good as this year's Celts. Let's keep it real, next season KG will be 35, Ray 36, and Pierce 34. There's no way to go but down. 

    Next season it's not about the Celts anymore. It's about the young and up and coming teams of the east. The Knicks, Bulls, and Heat will only get better next season"
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    In Response to Re: Post mortem:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Post mortem : Stop making excuses for KG! Pierce and Ray Allen had to deal with Lebron and Wade, KG couldn't even dominate a Heat frontcourt of Joel Anthony, who's only 6'9, and the soft Chris Bosh.  Saying that Danny Ainge said Pierce might come off the bench next season is not because Pierce played poorly this season or in the playoffs. In case you didn't know, Pierce had career highs in FG% and FT% this season. And since 2001 Pierce has led the Celts in scoring in the regular season and playoffs. Again, stop with the excuses. I know you're a die hard KG fan, but KG's time is up. Time to move on. Don't put the blame on others when KG only showed up in Game 3.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Agree that KG definitely didn't played very well in this series.  If KG and Davis had been better in the series against Miami, the Celtics probably would have won more games.  Still not sure they would have won the series, but it would have been closer. 
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Post mortem

    In Response to Post mortem:
    [QUOTE]I will start by saying that Danny is a gambler, and gamblers sometimes win, and sometimes they lose. In 2007 Danny brought the Big three together and gave up young talent. While this was probably not much of a gamble, he deserves much of the credit for the move. I have always said that it would be to early to judge the Perkins trade until the season was over. Now that it is, we can review the event without the fog of expectations or the media hype that is always involved. Danny made an unprecedented move. No other GM in NBA history has ever traded a starting player from a proven championship team for back-up players. Of course we had Shaq, and we had JO, and we needed a back up for Pierce. Krstic would also supply minutes as center, but he would eventually only play a third or a fourth string roll on the team. So what happened? The team went into a nose dive, playing without passion. Rondo more than any other player "lost his love for the game". He went into a funk, and spent the rest of the regular season acting as an immature child pouting over the loss of his friend. While this was not the only cause, Rondo's behavior probably had more to do with the Celtics losing home court advantage than any other factor. Shaq never really did come back. JO teased us with some good games but he was ultimately unable to even box out a 6'9" undersized throw-away center from Miami. Krystic played when JO could not, and while he has never played adequate defense, he did add some scoring in the Miami series. Joel Anthony was an undrafted 6'9" center that played a back-up role for the Heat when the series started. He became a starter as the series progressed. I have admit, that he played with drive and heart. However, the question has to be asked could a player of his size and pedigree have as much to do with the Miami wins, if he was being guarded and boxed out by Perkins, and all-NBA defensive center? Would Wade have as many points driving to the hoop if Perkins were playing? In the past, it has been the Celtic team defense that slowed Wade, with the bigs forming a wall on the strong side, and rotating quickly as the need arose. This year, while JO blocked some shots, he was too slow to get out of own way, and Krytic has no defensive ability what so ever. Jeff Green. Jeff is a very athletic player who learned to play some defense during the Miami series. As time went on, he got better and better against Lebron. Still, on this team his is a back up player that does most things at an acceptable level, but nothing at a high consistent level.  Near the end, he made some good shots, however, for most of the NY series, and much of the Miami series, he was invisible. So could we have won it all with Perkins? We will never know, but we do know what happened with out him. In my opinion, Danny gambled and lost this time. To win next year, the Gambler will need a good bluff, or some hidden aces.
    Posted by MinnesotaCelticsFan[/QUOTE]

    Not sure what we know but we can speculate that Perk would have been in instant foul trouble as soon as LeBron or Wade got into the paint.  So Perk would have had 2 fouls in the first five minutes and during that 5 minutes he would have traveled once, set a moving screen, and had two turnovers while missing 3 straight foul shots.  Stop......
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Post mortem

    In Response to Post mortem:
    [QUOTE]I will start by saying that Danny is a gambler, and gamblers sometimes win, and sometimes they lose. In 2007 Danny brought the Big three together and gave up young talent. While this was probably not much of a gamble, he deserves much of the credit for the move. I have always said that it would be to early to judge the Perkins trade until the season was over. Now that it is, we can review the event without the fog of expectations or the media hype that is always involved. Danny made an unprecedented move. No other GM in NBA history has ever traded a starting player from a proven championship team for back-up players. Of course we had Shaq, and we had JO, and we needed a back up for Pierce. Krstic would also supply minutes as center, but he would eventually only play a third or a fourth string roll on the team. So what happened? The team went into a nose dive, playing without passion. Rondo more than any other player "lost his love for the game". He went into a funk, and spent the rest of the regular season acting as an immature child pouting over the loss of his friend. While this was not the only cause, Rondo's behavior probably had more to do with the Celtics losing home court advantage than any other factor. Shaq never really did come back. JO teased us with some good games but he was ultimately unable to even box out a 6'9" undersized throw-away center from Miami. Krystic played when JO could not, and while he has never played adequate defense, he did add some scoring in the Miami series. Joel Anthony was an undrafted 6'9" center that played a back-up role for the Heat when the series started. He became a starter as the series progressed. I have admit, that he played with drive and heart. However, the question has to be asked could a player of his size and pedigree have as much to do with the Miami wins, if he was being guarded and boxed out by Perkins, and all-NBA defensive center? Would Wade have as many points driving to the hoop if Perkins were playing? In the past, it has been the Celtic team defense that slowed Wade, with the bigs forming a wall on the strong side, and rotating quickly as the need arose. This year, while JO blocked some shots, he was too slow to get out of own way, and Krytic has no defensive ability what so ever. Jeff Green. Jeff is a very athletic player who learned to play some defense during the Miami series. As time went on, he got better and better against Lebron. Still, on this team his is a back up player that does most things at an acceptable level, but nothing at a high consistent level.  Near the end, he made some good shots, however, for most of the NY series, and much of the Miami series, he was invisible. So could we have won it all with Perkins? We will never know, but we do know what happened with out him. In my opinion, Danny gambled and lost this time. To win next year, the Gambler will need a good bluff, or some hidden aces.
    Posted by MinnesotaCelticsFan[/QUOTE]

    p.s. the league awards ALL-NBA designation to players not posters...... Perk has never been, will never be all NBA anything.
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    I agree that KG did not play well offensively, just like Pierce and Allen did not play well defensively. Allen was an open gate for Wade, and when Pierce was not in foul trouble, Lebron, many times, had open shots.

    ...and what was that last five minutes of game five all about for Pierce? He looked like he needed a cane, and stickum on his fingers. If that wasn't age, then he should see a doctor.

    ...and, I am not sure what this has to do with the Perkins trade and it's value.
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    Surprise,

    Perkins and the Thunder move on.
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    Picking moments is not an arument but an excuse. There were as many old moments, as their were youth moments. Allen and Pierce looked old on defense for the series. KG looked old on offense for the series. This year, the deficiencies became magnified because of the drop off.

    The Celtics have always been known as a defensive team and can only win with great defense.

    Besides, if the team was intact, the Celtics still win.

    On another note, how about that Perkins!
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    I think this series really pointed out what the loss of Tom Thibodeau meant to the Celtics.  I just didn't see the same devensive intensity with the Celtics this year, especially with the guys who came in later and I think that is a direct result of losing Tom.  He also wasn't there in game situations where there is too much going on for the head coach to handle.  And I think many of us have had questions with some of Doc's game decisions.

    Making the loss of Tom even worse was the fact that the three older players most likely didn't practice with a lot of intensity all the time due to rest and injury issues so newer guys didn't learn from example from them.
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    In Response to Re: Post mortem:
    [QUOTE]Surprise, Perkins and the Thunder move on.
    Posted by MinnesotaCelticsFan[/QUOTE]
     
    Another surprise.....4 points 2 blocks and 3 rebounds in 31 minutes. Get your head out of the sand. We weren't gonna pay a no offensive center to be our centerpiece player for the next 5 years? Give me a break. Why do you think Ainge is trying to clear cap after all these guys contracts are up. It was a good run. Nobody knows what next year will bring. I again say thank you Danny that this wouldn't have been our offensive line-up in two years.....Rondo, Tony Allen, Pierce, BBD and Perkins. Wow, what firepower there. With a bench of Erden, Harangoody, West, Bradley and Daniels coming back? Does that give you any pause or not?
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    Faust he is going to be 35.  

    Fierce,
    I don't agree with you assessment of KG.  He had no help inside and for him to be effective he needs to roam and anchor the whole defense. The rebounding issue you are right on but consider the Celtics had no one else who could effectively rebound and help him (BBD and JO). Doc never choose to let Murphy in there and yes there was not a lot based on his performance to think he would have responded.  He should have gotten a try though.

    KG as we have discussed was injured in Game 4 and I think and have no proof he was injured, but after a strong game three his rebounding and offensive aggressiveness vanished.  He had either a muscle problem in his thigh or a knee problem after a collision with Lebron.

    I think if KG plays under thirty minutes next year he could be very effective.  The emphasis will be to involve younger players and the team could be quite competitive. In the championship hunt unlikely but very good.  And who knows what DA has planned with Doc. A five year deal means Doc is on board for all the needed changes and they will be coming.
     
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    Re: Post mortem

    It is not his rotations with the Oklahoma that matter, it was the integrated Celtic rotations that matted. That changed. Strong side defensive rotations were key to the Celtics defense. Add to that a guy that is quick enough to cover the week side just incase, the defensive chemisty changes significantly.

    From what I have read in another thread,and the article posted, if Doc had to do it over again, he would have waited until the season was over. Why do you think that is the case?
     
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