Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year : Bet I watch, read, and coach more than you, dudhead, I mean Dudder. The C's have no chance of obtaining better players?  Why do you even post here if you're going to say stupid things?   The C's have 2 first round picks, loads of cap space, and returning players that will be able to step up (Pietrus and likely Jeff Green).    Why am I even responding to a troll like you.   I always wondered why you get your joy from posting on a site for a team you clearly don't like.   
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Two late first round picks (maybe like a Giddens and maybe an Orien Greene) and Pietrus has only been around for about 6 years - he is just about to "step up" and be something he has never been, they currently have 6 players under contract for next season and that includes Moore and Johnson (Bass has a player option), oh and they will be $17 million under the cap - probably about $14 million under the cap after they sign the draft picks, and no legit talent that would attract good young stars to the roster, oh and they would need to sign 7 more players just to fill the roster.........

    I love the Celtics but I am realistic, whereas many who post here are just pie in the sky idiots.....

    Starting April 1st and ending April 11th they get the Heat twice, the Spurs, Indy, the 6ers, Atlanta, and the Bulls - 11 days, 7 games, 6 losses..... let's discuss the lottery.....
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year : Boston can't afford anyone that wants to play there. How much do you expect Green and KG will play for?
    Posted by Mark from Ct[/QUOTE]

    green is a "wait and see" because of his health issues. he's not a max contract guy by any stretch. KG is a plan B at this point, meaning we only resign him if we can't land a better PF in free agency.
     
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    [QUOTE]I will take a shot with next years lineup...... Point Guard: Rondo returns as starter unless a major trade was to happen and to be honest if Rondo is moved it blows up all of our predictions. Celtics shell out some money for Goran Dragic (2 years, 7 million). Dragic can play both guard spots (alongside and to spell Rondo). Goran can get hot and plays with great energy. Has played very well as a starter since Lowry went down. Dragic likely won't find a starting job by signing a 2 year deal he hits free agency again at only 26 years old. Bradley returns and is capable of playig point but he is better cast at shooting guard playing with Dragic on the 2nd unit Shooting Guard: Ray Allen walks in free agency (Miami or Clippers or dark horse Thunder sign the classy vet). Celtics sign wing scorer Nick Young in free agency (3 years 17 million). With a PG who averages double digit assists Young could get better looks and wouldn't need to iso as much as he did in Washington to get his hoops. Not his biggest fan but the kid can score. Bradley returns to provide the necessary spark on defense. Pietrus finds work elsewhere while Daniels ponders retirement Small Forward Captain Paul Pierce returns and Jeff Green returns after signing team friendly 1 year deal worth 6Mlion with a player option. Green looks to show he is healthy and ready to continue his NBA career and could opt out and pursue a new contract after the season. Matt Barnes is signed for 1 year ( player option for year two) 2 million dollars Power Forward Kevin Garnett returns to retire a Celtic (2 year 20 million). Unless KG is blown away by another deal I think he returns and the guy can still play. Reggie Evans signs a (1 year 1.5M deal) Evans provides toughness and rebounding * Celtics trade Jujuan Johnson, a signed and trade Brandon Bass (2 years, 14M), and a first round pick (either ours or Clippers) in a 3 team deal that sends Ben Gordon and Brandon Bass to Jazz with our first rouser. Millsap and Johnson land in Detroit and the Celtics land Al Jefferson. Celtics have the cap space to absorb Big Al's contract. Jazz need to free up space and playing time for Favors and Kanter. Bass has been willing to come off the bench in all of his stops. Jazz get a pick, Bass and Gordon to retool with Favors and Kanter. Jazz get help at power forward with Paul Millsap. Celtics use there cap space to absorb Jeffersons contract Center Al Jefferson starts. Tyler Zeller is drafted with the first rounder we don't end up trading. Steimsma is retained also (2 years 2.5 million) Depth chart: PG: Rondo, Dragic, Bradley SG: Young, Bradley SF: Pierce, Green, Barnes PF: Garnett, Green, Evans C: Jefferson, Zeller, Steimsma Outgoing salary (2011-2012 salaries) KG expired 21M, Allen expired 10M, Bass player option declined 4M, Dooling/Wilcox/ONeal/Daniels/Pavlovic/Moore/Pietrus/Steimsma expiring deals combining Roughly 25 million Total expiring: 60 million Added salary for 12-13 Garnett 10M Young 6M Dragic 3.5M Green 6M Barnes 2M Evans 1.5M Jefferson 14M Steamer 1.2M Zellers rookie contract of around 2-3 million replaces Johnsons similar cap hit Total added cap Roughly 47M Celtics pretty much add 1 max contract and don't add any horrible deals. This team is pretty deep also with Green being able to play with Big Al at the 4 spot. Dragic and Bradley would be a nuasance on the 2nd unit and although we would all like a better option than Young he can get hot and be a scorer. The Jefferson deal isn't even unrealistic. We have seen rebuilding teams do crazier things than that and the jazz have two young top 3 picks that they need to see. Zeller could be worth a pickup in round one. Kid played 4 years and is a legit center. Team looks fun and it isn't all that unrealistic. Dragic could very well get a bigger payday but oh we'll I'm a fan of him haha
    Posted by Rebels345209[/QUOTE]

    "with a point guard that averages double digit assists".... he averages double digit assists because he has 3 of the greatest shooters the league has ever seen.... their shooting is not a function of his assists, his assists are a function of their shooting....  with 3 even average shooters he averages 5 fewer assists per game.....  if a player plays 4 years in college, especially Carolina he is not a "legit center", legit centers play one year of college and almost immediately step in and have an impact.... Zeller is a nice player but going to be what I would call legit.

    The Cap is around $53 million, they currently have 6 players at $34 million under contract next year, add 3 daft picks and they will have approx. $15 million under the cap and no legit talent around to draw a max contract player..... but that is ok... I always say one is never too old to fantasize.
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

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    [QUOTE]I will take a shot with next years lineup...... Point Guard: Rondo returns as starter unless a major trade was to happen and to be honest if Rondo is moved it blows up all of our predictions. Celtics shell out some money for Goran Dragic (2 years, 7 million). Dragic can play both guard spots (alongside and to spell Rondo). Goran can get hot and plays with great energy. Has played very well as a starter since Lowry went down. Dragic likely won't find a starting job by signing a 2 year deal he hits free agency again at only 26 years old. Bradley returns and is capable of playig point but he is better cast at shooting guard playing with Dragic on the 2nd unit Shooting Guard: Ray Allen walks in free agency (Miami or Clippers or dark horse Thunder sign the classy vet). Celtics sign wing scorer Nick Young in free agency (3 years 17 million). With a PG who averages double digit assists Young could get better looks and wouldn't need to iso as much as he did in Washington to get his hoops. Not his biggest fan but the kid can score. Bradley returns to provide the necessary spark on defense. Pietrus finds work elsewhere while Daniels ponders retirement Small Forward Captain Paul Pierce returns and Jeff Green returns after signing team friendly 1 year deal worth 6Mlion with a player option. Green looks to show he is healthy and ready to continue his NBA career and could opt out and pursue a new contract after the season. Matt Barnes is signed for 1 year ( player option for year two) 2 million dollars Power Forward Kevin Garnett returns to retire a Celtic (2 year 20 million). Unless KG is blown away by another deal I think he returns and the guy can still play. Reggie Evans signs a (1 year 1.5M deal) Evans provides toughness and rebounding * Celtics trade Jujuan Johnson, a signed and trade Brandon Bass (2 years, 14M), and a first round pick (either ours or Clippers) in a 3 team deal that sends Ben Gordon and Brandon Bass to Jazz with our first rouser. Millsap and Johnson land in Detroit and the Celtics land Al Jefferson. Celtics have the cap space to absorb Big Al's contract. Jazz need to free up space and playing time for Favors and Kanter. Bass has been willing to come off the bench in all of his stops. Jazz get a pick, Bass and Gordon to retool with Favors and Kanter. Jazz get help at power forward with Paul Millsap. Celtics use there cap space to absorb Jeffersons contract Center Al Jefferson starts. Tyler Zeller is drafted with the first rounder we don't end up trading. Steimsma is retained also (2 years 2.5 million) Depth chart: PG: Rondo, Dragic, Bradley SG: Young, Bradley SF: Pierce, Green, Barnes PF: Garnett, Green, Evans C: Jefferson, Zeller, Steimsma Outgoing salary (2011-2012 salaries) KG expired 21M, Allen expired 10M, Bass player option declined 4M, Dooling/Wilcox/ONeal/Daniels/Pavlovic/Moore/Pietrus/Steimsma expiring deals combining Roughly 25 million Total expiring: 60 million Added salary for 12-13 Garnett 10M Young 6M Dragic 3.5M Green 6M Barnes 2M Evans 1.5M Jefferson 14M Steamer 1.2M Zellers rookie contract of around 2-3 million replaces Johnsons similar cap hit Total added cap Roughly 47M Celtics pretty much add 1 max contract and don't add any horrible deals. This team is pretty deep also with Green being able to play with Big Al at the 4 spot. Dragic and Bradley would be a nuasance on the 2nd unit and although we would all like a better option than Young he can get hot and be a scorer. The Jefferson deal isn't even unrealistic. We have seen rebuilding teams do crazier things than that and the jazz have two young top 3 picks that they need to see. Zeller could be worth a pickup in round one. Kid played 4 years and is a legit center. Team looks fun and it isn't all that unrealistic. Dragic could very well get a bigger payday but oh we'll I'm a fan of him haha
    Posted by Rebels345209[/QUOTE]

    Good idea but the math doesn't work.
    Based on your scenario, Boston would still have Pierce, Rondo, Bradley and Moore under contract for a total of $30,183,340. The cap will be between $58m to $60m. Let say Boston has $30m in cap space.
    Adding 1st round pick: Approx $1.5m
    Adding AL Jefferson: $15m
    Adding Garnett: $10m
    Adding Dragic: $3.5m
    Boston will now be maxed out at the cap.

    Boston will have the mini-mid level exception remaining which is about $3m.
    You can see why signing the following players will not work. Young $5m, Green $6m, Barnes $2m, Evans $1.5m, Stiemsma $1.25m. Boston could sign Evans and Stiemsma with the mini mid level exception but Young, Green and Barnes would not be able to be signed.
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

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    [QUOTE]I will take a shot with next years lineup...... Point Guard: Rondo returns as starter unless a major trade was to happen and to be honest if Rondo is moved it blows up all of our predictions. Celtics shell out some money for Goran Dragic (2 years, 7 million). Dragic can play both guard spots (alongside and to spell Rondo). Goran can get hot and plays with great energy. Has played very well as a starter since Lowry went down. Dragic likely won't find a starting job by signing a 2 year deal he hits free agency again at only 26 years old. Bradley returns and is capable of playig point but he is better cast at shooting guard playing with Dragic on the 2nd unit Shooting Guard: Ray Allen walks in free agency (Miami or Clippers or dark horse Thunder sign the classy vet). Celtics sign wing scorer Nick Young in free agency (3 years 17 million). With a PG who averages double digit assists Young could get better looks and wouldn't need to iso as much as he did in Washington to get his hoops. Not his biggest fan but the kid can score. Bradley returns to provide the necessary spark on defense. Pietrus finds work elsewhere while Daniels ponders retirement Small Forward Captain Paul Pierce returns and Jeff Green returns after signing team friendly 1 year deal worth 6Mlion with a player option. Green looks to show he is healthy and ready to continue his NBA career and could opt out and pursue a new contract after the season. Matt Barnes is signed for 1 year ( player option for year two) 2 million dollars Power Forward Kevin Garnett returns to retire a Celtic (2 year 20 million). Unless KG is blown away by another deal I think he returns and the guy can still play. Reggie Evans signs a (1 year 1.5M deal) Evans provides toughness and rebounding * Celtics trade Jujuan Johnson, a signed and trade Brandon Bass (2 years, 14M), and a first round pick (either ours or Clippers) in a 3 team deal that sends Ben Gordon and Brandon Bass to Jazz with our first rouser. Millsap and Johnson land in Detroit and the Celtics land Al Jefferson. Celtics have the cap space to absorb Big Al's contract. Jazz need to free up space and playing time for Favors and Kanter. Bass has been willing to come off the bench in all of his stops. Jazz get a pick, Bass and Gordon to retool with Favors and Kanter. Jazz get help at power forward with Paul Millsap. Celtics use there cap space to absorb Jeffersons contract Center Al Jefferson starts. Tyler Zeller is drafted with the first rounder we don't end up trading. Steimsma is retained also (2 years 2.5 million) Depth chart: PG: Rondo, Dragic, Bradley SG: Young, Bradley SF: Pierce, Green, Barnes PF: Garnett, Green, Evans C: Jefferson, Zeller, Steimsma Outgoing salary (2011-2012 salaries) KG expired 21M, Allen expired 10M, Bass player option declined 4M, Dooling/Wilcox/ONeal/Daniels/Pavlovic/Moore/Pietrus/Steimsma expiring deals combining Roughly 25 million Total expiring: 60 million Added salary for 12-13 Garnett 10M Young 6M Dragic 3.5M Green 6M Barnes 2M Evans 1.5M Jefferson 14M Steamer 1.2M Zellers rookie contract of around 2-3 million replaces Johnsons similar cap hit Total added cap Roughly 47M Celtics pretty much add 1 max contract and don't add any horrible deals. This team is pretty deep also with Green being able to play with Big Al at the 4 spot. Dragic and Bradley would be a nuasance on the 2nd unit and although we would all like a better option than Young he can get hot and be a scorer. The Jefferson deal isn't even unrealistic. We have seen rebuilding teams do crazier things than that and the jazz have two young top 3 picks that they need to see. Zeller could be worth a pickup in round one. Kid played 4 years and is a legit center. Team looks fun and it isn't all that unrealistic. Dragic could very well get a bigger payday but oh we'll I'm a fan of him haha
    Posted by Rebels345209[/QUOTE]

    Don't like or want Dragic - just saved you 3.5 mill.  10 is too much for KG, he'll have to take about 5 - just saved another 5.
    I still think Rondo will be traded in the off-season despite what Danny says.  I think we can sign Hibbert (or McGee or Kaman) and Mayo (or Young), then we will be close.  Green, yes, but not at 9.5!
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

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    [QUOTE]The salary cap is 58m and if the Celts will be under the cap when free-agency begins, the Celts will have the full MLE.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    You are correct, they will have the full MLE.
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

    Green at $5m and KG at $5m is realistic.
    Drop Dragic and Bsoton could add Barnes.
    Still not enough money for Nick Young.
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year : You are correct, they will have the full MLE.
    Posted by Mark from Ct[/QUOTE]

    The full MLE has been wisely managed by Danny and very productive as a result.......  so here is hoping that we can get a middle-of-the-road player that is just about washed up simply to fill a roster spot and be paid more than any other team was willing to give - I'll drink to that.
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

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    [QUOTE]If KG asks for 5m then he can go elsewhere. How much money does he need? Does KG want to buy a small country? Shaq played for the vet's minimum. KG should too!
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    I think he may retire!!
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year : I think he may retire!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]

    I believe KG believes he is still one of the elite players in the game and imho will be around for another 3 or 4 years, hopefully just not here.  They need to find the bottom so they can start to rebuild as quickly as possible and having mediocre players around just for purposes of remaining mediocre is not my idea of finding the bottom.  Though I am sure KG has found plenty of bottom over the years as he has travelled from one city to the next.
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

    F34,

    I re-read this and I don't think either of us were correct:
    Boston is not a non-taxpaying team.
    They are a tax paying team, thus will be considered a team with cap room.
    See the Miami Heat example below.

    2011 CBA: For non-taxpaying teams, four years starting at $5 million (base salary grows by 3 percent annually beginning in 2013-14), with 4.5 percent raises. Taxpaying teams are limited to three years, a $3 million base salary (which grows by 3 percent annually beginning in 2013-14) and 4.5 percent raises. Teams with cap room (therefore losing their midlevel exception) get a new midlevel that is for two years and starts at $2.5 million (growing 3 percent annually).

    Who benefits? Very few full midlevel contracts handed out under the 2005 CBA turned out to be good bargains in their later years. Reducing the size and length of the midlevel exception will help teams rid themselves of bad contracts.

    The new exception for teams with cap room will benefit teams that clear cap room to sign free agents. For example, in the summer of 2010 Miami gutted its roster in order to obtain James and Bosh. This left the Heat with a small amount of cap room to sign players like Mike Miller. But once they reached the salary cap, they could offer only minimum-salary contracts. Under the new CBA, once they reach the cap, they could still offer one or more players a total of $2.5 million.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

    I just think KG has too much pride to play for the vet min.  He will go out and see what other teams offer - it won't be much.  He will come back and see what DA offers - it will be a little more - but not enough.  He has signed 3 100 mill contracts in his career...........and I just can't see him playing for "peanuts."  Maybe some team will give him a big offer, but I doubt it.
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

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    [QUOTE]I just think KG has too much pride to play for the vet min.  He will go out and see what other teams offer - it won't be much.  He will come back and see what DA offers - it will be a little more - but not enough.  He has signed 3 100 mill contracts in his career...........and I just can't see him playing for "peanuts."  Maybe some team will give him a big offer, but I doubt it.
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]

    I believe he will find out that the contenders are already over the cap and that his current team is the one that will contractually able to pay him the most and thereby yet another damper on the rebuilding process.
     
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    I see KG and Ray more valuable to contending teams than Fisher will be to the Thunder so don't know if their loyalty to Boston will be more than Vets' minimums !
     
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    KG has defined a new market for himself this year as a center. He doesnt want to do it, but he has shown he can play the position at a high level. The difference in he and Shaq is that there was no market for Shaq. Nobody wanted him. That will not be case for  the KG. He is already being mentioned as a potential target for the Nets and Bulls. If C's want to keep him, I think they are going to have to pay him somewhere around 7-12M. If he accepts less to play, he is truly giving the team a discount
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

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    [QUOTE]I posted this separately but a good copy & paste here I think  as I feel we should keep our BIG 3 next season and can make a run at the title if we can solve our lack of strength rebounding.  And, if we need give up Rondo to do it, so be it !!! I know it's a different sport,  football,  but I remind everyone of  “the Over The Hill Gang" when I read posts that the Celtics’ BIG 3 are too old.  The average age of The Redskin’s starters was 31 years old.  However, Allen's strategy turned the Redskins around as the team improved to a 9-4-1 record in 1971, and finished the 1972 season with an NFC-best 11–3 record. The retooled Redskins' nine victories in 1971 was the most by a Washington team in 29 years. In his seven seasons with the club, Allen and his veterans produced seven winning records,  five playoff appearances, and one trip to the Super Bowl.       Re: Basketball & Age, see link: "Better With Age??? Over the Hill Mavericks still know how to win !!!" http://www.foxsportshouston.com/03/24/12/Aging-Mavericks-still-know-how-to-win/landing_rockets.html?blockID=695436&feedID=3803 By the way, Duncan, Ginobli and Parker of Spurs, still very competitive, are not young kids either !!! As I am 73 years old I favor older players and I still play competitive USTA  Super Senior(over 65) tennis tournaments & beat most people my age at my level.  But I also beat people 15-20 years younger and, sure, I use slices, topspin, drop shot, lobs etc. & mix up my game but because of experience, I many times beat a younger more athletic player.  Yes, we should look to the future bringing up younger players in the draft but I really think we still have a nucleus that can bring us a title in the next 1 or 2 years & I think we’ve  got it missing one very important ingredient, a dominating rebounding center and that’s why we should do every thing possible to get D. Howard keeping our BIG 3 if possible. I’ve said this in another post that D.Howard w/o anyone like our BIG 3, Rose, Kobe, Durant & Westbrook, Paul & Griffin, Lebron & James etc. still makes the Magic competitive and it’s all due to him.  Definitely keep Stiemsma & draft a potential star center.  I don’t feel Kaman and Hollins are the answer to dominance. They’ll make us better but not contenders for the title, I feel !!!   Comments ???
    Posted by mandobello[/QUOTE]
     
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    I am in your age group and hear you --re: tennis etc. however, when you see our club against young talented legs like the Heat or Thunder you realize we can't keep up in the second half.  IMO there is no way the big 3 can be championship competitive any more!!
     
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    [QUOTE]I am in your age group and hear you --re: tennis etc. however, when you see our club against young talented legs like the Heat or Thunder you realize we can't keep up in the second half.  IMO there is no way the big 3 can be championship competitive any more!!
    Posted by haste[/QUOTE]

    They just went on an 8 game road trip and lost 3 of 4 games against playoff teams, for the season they have won 2 games against Orlando, one against the Bulls (without Rose), one against Indy, barely beat Altanta last week without their all-star center... they can barely beat bad teams on the road, they have an easier time at home against bad teams.... they have the Heat 3 more times, the 6ers twice, the Hawks twice, the Bulls, Indy, etc..... making the playoffs or even being 500 for that matter would be quite an accomplishment at this point let alone competing for a title... but some people are watching a different team and when they beat Washington at home or GS (on the day they traded away their best player and their second best player is sitting with an injury) they say "see the Cs can play with anyone".....
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

    My plan was pretty much based off of incoming and outgoing salaries. With bird rights for the majority of our free agents it does make sign and trades more possible. Celtics can't depend on strictly signing free agents so getting a big salary from a team looking to move one is more likely (hence my Jefferson idea). Wasn't a perfect idea on my part and I didn't have time to really play with the cap
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

    I would trade rondo, dump pierce, and do not resign Ray or KG.  Who is my starting 5...none are on the roster.
     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

    In Response to Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year:
    [QUOTE]I am in your age group and hear you --re: tennis etc. however, when you see our club against young talented legs like the Heat or Thunder you realize we can't keep up in the second half.  IMO there is no way the big 3 can be championship competitive any more!!
    Posted by haste[/QUOTE

    I posted part of this elsewhere and, maybe, hopefully, I'm California Dreaming(I live in SF) but I think the Big 3 have another run in them. Their biggest problem has been when they are hot, PP & Ray from 3 pt range & KG from 5-15 ft out & shoot 50%, they can win, but w/o a competent rebounder on the Offensive Boards they must rush back to defend. Wouldn't it be nice to give them another shot or two when they are only shooting 35-45% ??? With reduced minutes and Bass, Green, Pietrus, Bradley etc. with or w/o Rondo, I can see them, at least , one more year, being contenders.

    I do not profess to be Sherlock Holmes here but I would guess that games we lose most of the time are when we lose the rebounding battle. I mean, and I hate them, the Lakers prior to getting Sessions only had Kobe to competete with our BIG 3 in all star category but it's Bynum & Gasol who either put in the rebound or pass it our for their mediocre shooters to have another shot after shot...even a blind chipmunk finds an acorn occasionally.

    The Maverick’s  core of Marion, Jason Kidd, Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Terry and Vince Carter averages 34.8 years of age. Kidd, their point guard, turned 39 on Friday. 

    And these are basically the same Mavericks that won the NBA championship just one year ago.

    By the way, Duncan, Ginobli and Parker of Spurs, still very competitive, are not young kids either !!!

    So, keep the BIG 3 and Stiemsma & draft a potential star center.   Then choose between Kaman and Hollins.  My # 1 choice would be D. Howard even if we had to lose Rondo.

    Speaking of centers, it was nice to see our alumnus, Perkins, provide good “D” last night against  LeBron & Bosh & also score 16 pts tonight.   

     

     
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    Re: Predictions-Celtics lineup next year

    if a player plays 4 years in college, especially Carolina he is not a "legit center", legit centers play one year of college and almost immediately step in and have an impact

    I didn't realize Tim Duncan and Shaquille O'Neal aren't legit.
     
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