Ray Allen is just awful

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigegg. Show bigegg's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful


    agree. This guy is an average bench player at best. Purely useless.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    LOL.   He has been hurt and clearly not playing well.  He cannot get his shot off, but try not to go too overboard on the criticism.  He's not the reason we lost.

    We'll win the next one at home.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    How about Bass finally showing up to play and gets pined - only 22 minutes!!  We needed something up front in the 4/5- KG was stinko.  But doc benches Bass, becuase it's NOT important for Bass to get going and put up a 20/10 game or anything like that.

    I've been a fan of letting Ray walk for a while now.  Look at the numbers- he's given us less and less reliability every post season for one reason or another- first three years of over-use in regular season and now injury.....

    Gee, I wonder if over-use of a bad ankles guy can lead to premature issues again on known balky crankles?  Bah!!!  I know, crazy talk!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    Rays not so bad, hes not getting his shots... Credit the 76ers defense or our poor offense.  Nothings changed for Ray, he doesnt create his own shot.  If he gets open, he can drill 3's.. that simple.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from edcap99. Show edcap99's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    Ray Allen is obviously playing hurt and the results have been generally ugly. Doc needs to accept this instead of playing him at crucial parts of the game hoping that he will suddenly get his groove back. Brandon Bass should have been playing in the 4th quarter instead. Allen was a liability on defense and he was a dud on offense save for a lone 3-pointer in the fourth. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigegg. Show bigegg's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    This loss also implies Doc is not a great coach. A loss is okay, but to phillies?
    Leading 18 pts in the 3rd and tied in the fouth with 3 minutes remaining...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen is just awful:
    [QUOTE]This loss also implies Doc is not a great coach. A loss is okay, but to phillies? Leading 18 pts in the 3rd and tied in the fouth with 3 minutes remaining...
    Posted by bigegg[/QUOTE]

    it doesn't just imply it- it more or less was like having two harpoons shoved into your eye sockets to bring that problem to your attention with the too much ray allen, the not enough rest for KG and the disappearance of bass. 

    three major screw ups.  and this guy was just extended how many years?  was doc busy sending texts this game and just didn't get his head into it?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sk8brd. Show sk8brd's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen is just awful:
    [QUOTE]This loss also implies Doc is not a great coach. A loss is okay, but to phillies? Leading 18 pts in the 3rd and tied in the fouth with 3 minutes remaining...
    Posted by bigegg[/QUOTE]

    Agree.  Doc is an idiot.  They were down 83-88 with 40 sec to go.  Ray was shooting lousy the whole game, and you know what the @$#%^& coach Doc did?  He drew a play for Ray to shoot a 3 instead of a quick 2.  Bad play, bad coaching.
     
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    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    It's no secret Ray Allen hasn't been healthy for quite some time now and, most likely, won't be unless he opts for ankle surgery in the off-season. And according to Reggie Miller, there's no guarantee whether Ray returns to top form either. That scenario could have quite a bit of influence on whether or not Danny Ainge makes an offer to have him return to the Celtics next season, albeit at a drastically reduced pay rate.

    I'm not going to pile on Ray because of tonight's offensive ineffectiveness and defensive liability issues...it's all been well documented...but I believe it's time to let him go at the end of the year unless the surgery corrects the problem without any long-term effects and Ray is willing to accept an off-the-bench role as a second unit reserve.

    I think Danny made the right decision when he elected to keep the team intact at the trade deadline but he will have no choice but to reconfigure the team with Rondo as the hub if the Celtics are going to be legitimate contenders for the next five years or so. Ray could be a nice complimentary player but I doubt the Celtics would be better off with him in the starting lineup.          
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from edcap99. Show edcap99's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen is just awful:
    [QUOTE]x x x ...but I believe it's time to let him go at the end of the year unless the surgery corrects the problem without any long-term effects and Ray is willing to accept an off-the-bench role as a second unit reserve. I think Danny made the right decision when he elected to keep the team intact at the trade deadline but he will have no choice but to reconfigure the team with Rondo as the hub if the Celtics are going to be legitimate contenders for the next five years or so. Ray could be a nice complimentary player but I doubt the Celtics would be better off with him in the starting lineup.          
    Posted by ghostofjohnnymost[/QUOTE]With all due respect to Ray Allen, I agree that it is time to let him ago after this season. He is turning 37 in July and will likely spend part of next season in rehab. There's not much sense in leaving a slot on the active roster for him on a team that is rebuilding. Keeping Ray Allen in the lineup will only hinder the development of a younger player simply because Doc Rivers will always elect to play Allen over the other. Cases in point are JaJuan Johnson and E'twuan Moore who have great potential and could have developed nicely for the playoffs had Doc given them regular and meaningful playing time during the regular season. It's their misfortune not to have been drafted by a team like the San Antonio Spurs. When Ray retires for good, I would heartily welcome his return to the Celtics as a shooting and fitness conditioning coach.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen is just awful:
    [QUOTE]Doc Rivers lost this game. Ray Allen was a minus 24. Pietrus or Pavlovic or Moore would be better! Or play Bass and Bradley instead of "going small."
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    The obvious right thing to do.

    Extending Doc Rivers for 4 or 5 years was a horrendous decision by Ainge.  watching him spread minutes between older and younger players is like watching a calculator divde by zero.  Trouble every time...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    This sudden new concept of small ball for the C's, an inept rebounding team with a full sized lineup, is just further testament to what a complete smooth brained imbecile Rivers is.

    And he's not getting better folks.  This team willed itself to victory in 2008.  It's very debatable what "role" Rivers had in that other than coining a phrase about bunting.

    Since then he's been, well, debatable.  The older and more mediocre this team gets the more magnified the implications of his mistakes become.  Imagine this guy with a predominately young roster and a few older filler players.  He hates young players.  He's said it himself- doesn't like coaching them.

    The emergence of Bradley- another do it yourself guy who we probably woudln't have heard from in three years or might have even walked and emerged for someone else.  What would have happened if We cut Ray's minutes to 20 this year and infused the lineup with Bradley?  Gee, maybe Ray never gets hurt (likely from too many minutes per game the last three years- steadily 35 or 36 a game) and we have two decent players- Ray with some punch left in him and the younger Bradley to come in and really put the screws to the other team on D and run with Rondo?  We'll never know.

    People scoff at the idea of the "effect" of overplaying Ray 8 minutes a game x 3 years.  But it amounts to another entire season of playing time on the floor over three years....  do the math.  And each year it has resulted in the disappearance of Ray in the playoffs due to exhaustion- doesn't matter how great the conditioning of a player is- when you overtax them for their age they wear out.  All brand new concepts for Doc, hmm? 

    Then you have the closed mouth tolerance of a clown like Sheed showing up fat and out of shape and visibly not trying a whole regular season, screwing up our W-L record but it's more important to rag on Glen Davis to the press, and further developing that player-coach relationship to daddy dearest run-em-out-of-town status.  If we advance, WHO is going to play Hibbert?  Ding dang, the only thing ORL had going vs. IND was the fact that Davis, a 6-7 1/2 fatty fat fatso outplayed the living hell out of Hibbert.  But we'll just let KG do that, right?  Hibbert probably outweighs him by 30-40 pounds but what the heck, KG will do fine on offense.  And Bass will do FINE on David West..  :-O

    I'm sure Ainge doesn't go to every practice, probably looks to Doc for input on SOME existing personnel issues- the very idea of saddling up O'Neal for a go this year (he really started out great, huh?!) rather than getting an elementary medical retirement, freeing cap space and getting a real piece at center.

    Rather than a rook and a guy like Hollins who I call a tire patch rather than a personnel move, who seems to be an energy guy but gives away the store a lot of ways if you really look at what he does.  Now we've got a birth certificate rotation at the back up 5 it seems- the better defensive player is rotting on the bench (Steamer).   Don't buy the shiney object of Hollins' lob-dunks, it's not better than Steamer's shotblocking and other defensive skills.  The decision to blank Steamer out in favor of this HORRID idea of "small ball" when we need size the most, at least Bass in there(!), is just sublime.

    But Doc is predictable- rotations by birth certificates is the usual downfall of playing who is best- did it tonight with blanking Steamer and over-playing the non-effective Allen. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bangkoker. Show bangkoker's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen is just awful:
    [QUOTE]Ray Allen is obviously playing hurt and the results have been generally ugly. Doc needs to accept this instead of playing him at crucial parts of the game hoping that he will suddenly get his groove back. Brandon Bass should have been playing in the 4th quarter instead. Allen was a liability on defense and he was a dud on offense save for a lone 3-pointer in the fourth. 
    Posted by edcap99[/QUOTE]


     Agree, as of now he is both liability in offense and defense plus he cannot rebound, I really wonder why Bass is not playing in the crucial minutes of the game, he is hitting his jump shot plus he can rebound. The reason we lost is not about shooting but we are badly out rebounded particularly in the fourth quarter, Bass should be a help in that category in the fourth quarter.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen is just awful:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ray Allen is just awful :  Agree, as of now he is both liability in offense and defense plus he cannot rebound, I really wonder why Bass is not playing in the crucial minutes of the game, he is hitting his jump shot plus he can rebound. The reason we lost is not about shooting but we are badly out rebounded particularly in the fourth quarter, Bass should be a help in that category in the fourth quarter.
    Posted by bangkoker[/QUOTE]
    Hey Bangkoker;
    Assuming you're in LOS.
    Are you actually watching the games (in the morning) or just checking the scores on the net?
    If you're watching the games, where are you doing it?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from EastTraveler. Show EastTraveler's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    "Ray Allen is just awful"

    That is an understatement...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    Ray is limited and while he can still play in the right situations I would bet that he will not attract nearly the interest he had thought next year in the open market.
     
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    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen is just awful:
    [QUOTE]Ray is limited and while he can still play in the right situations I would bet that he will not attract nearly the interest he had thought next year in the open market.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    I bet your right on that.  Ray probably thinks he is still a starter.  Not sure any other teams out there think he is though.  The Celtics may end up getting him back rather cheap.  Bad part about that is Doc will ride him like a horse and not let the youngsters play.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    Allen is obviously really hurt.  This doesn't mean he should be out there playing. It does mean that instead of "awful" he is hurt.

    Either way if he can't do better than what he has been doing the last few games he should not be out there.
     
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    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen is just awful:
    [QUOTE]Allen is obviously really hurt.  This doesn't mean he should be out there playing. It does mean that instead of "awful" he is hurt. Either way if he can't do better than what he has been doing the last few games he should not be out there.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]
    Blowing a 18 pt lead you cannot have an injured ray out there when he is already challenged on defense.  Doc not playing Pietrus of Pavlovic may end up being the story of the series if we lose again.  Doc has got to realize Ray can only be in there situationally.  The young 76'er guards smell blood when Ray is in there for any length of time.
     
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    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    Doc is an incredible coach and Ray is an incredible player that is playing with two bad ankles. Yes the loss stings but let's not go overboard here. We will bounce back strong in game 5. I now think this series will go 7 which is to bad cuz we could have used the extra rest. The Pacers will be a MASSIVE challenge.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    In Response to Ray Allen is just awful:
    [QUOTE]Ray Allen  -24 Avery Bradley  +12 Rivers is an idiot to play Ray Allen. Pavlovic is healthy and should be taking Ray's spot. An injured player HURTS THE TEAM.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    I COULDN'T AGREE MORE!!!! Hurt or not, he just doesn't have anything but a streaky 3-pt shot nowadays! that is a fact. No D, no mid-range, no real quickness, he is D-O-N-E, DONE!!! I love ya Ray, but even better on the bench during the 4th. DOC, stop panicking and put your 5-BEST players on the court in the closing minutes!!!! Ray Ray is a liability. He's turned into a turnover machine. He just isn't a primie time palyer anymore!

     
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    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    Allen is hurt.

    When he gets open looks he can still shoot.  Th eproblem is he can't get open looks.

    Part of the problem with that is poor offensive design that allows the defense to constantly switch out top and prevent open looks for Ray.

    It doesn't halp that Rondo took the second half off yesterday.  He was timid and lazy.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Ray Allen is just awful

    Wow, great fans around here!

    Right, it is all Rays fault.
    KG couldn't throw it in the ocean -- /> Ray!
    Rondo getting out of control in the end -- /> Ray!
    AB making stupid fouls and plays -- /> Ray!
    Bass getting benched -- /> Ray!

    Ray is clearly not 100 % and is often doubled coming off screens and therefore has troubles getting open looks, yes.
    This was one of his worse postseason games this year, but in general he is having a good postseason. He is playing smart, good ball handling and very good defense using his length. He is a much better defender than Pietrus and in my opinion even than AB in this postseason (not in RS).
    He led the Cs in scoring just a few days ago, remember anyone?
    He already had games were he was + 17 and AB - 13, remember anyone?
    His 3 in the fourth kept us in the game, remember anyone?

    Didn't one of you guys said that +/- is just a fluke over one game? Ah well, only if it is not Ray, right? E.g. in the 2nd quarter, our second unit lost the lead and Ray was on the field. Do you guys really think this would have been different with Sasha/Pietrus or AB in instead of Ray?
     

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