Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    The Celtics have been very fortunate to have two HOF players playing the SG and SF spots for the past four years in Ray Allen and Paul Pierce.  No matter their ups and downs and their battles through injuries, they have been consummate team superstars since being brought together.  Each has left his ego at the door for the success of the team and you really have to admire that.  The Celtics would NOT be the team they are today without either of them.  Enough said!

    I started a thread last night called “GAME ON:  Celtics versus Pistons” to solicit comments ON LAST NIGHT’S GAME!  Both “kyceltic” and “P34” have hijacked that thread and transformed it to their own personal, back-and-forth argument of who is better, Allen or Pierce.  Guys, they are both GREAT!

    So in their honor (“kyceltic” and “P34”), here is a thread to which you guys can debate what has to be the most ridiculous debate I’ve heard on b.com.  I normally enjoy reading both of your thought-provoking posts but, on this, “argue on your own thread” or on one created for that nonsense.

    As best said by my squad leader during Plebe year, “HAVE AT IT”!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    This is kind of like the movie "MY FELLOW AMERICANS" .
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE]The Celtics have been very fortunate to have two HOF players playing the SG and SF spots for the past four years in Ray Allen and Paul Pierce.   No matter their ups and downs and their battles through injuries, they have been consummate team superstars since being brought together.   Each has left his ego at the door for the success of the team and you really have to admire that.   The Celtics would NOT be the team they are today without either of them.   Enough said! I started a thread last night called “ GAME ON:   Celtics versus Pistons ” to solicit comments ON LAST NIGHT’S GAME!   Both “kyceltic” and “P34” have hijacked that thread and transformed it to their own personal, back-and-forth argument of who is better, Allen or Pierce.  Guys, they are both GREAT! So in their honor (“kyceltic” and “P34”), here is a thread to which you guys can debate what has to be the most ridiculous debate I’ve heard on b.com.   I normally enjoy reading both of your thought-provoking posts but, on this, “ argue on your own thread ” or on one created for that nonsense. As best said by my squad leader during Plebe year, “ HAVE AT IT ”!couldn`t agree more. we`d be forked without either 1 of these future hall of famers.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticsfanmx. Show celticsfanmx's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    I totally agree.

    I admired Allen since his time with the Bucks and, as a player, I like him more than Pierce but I will always respect captain's Pierce game as one of the greatest Celtic in the franchise.

    Cheers to both of them.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE]The Celtics have been very fortunate to have two HOF players playing the SG and SF spots for the past four years in Ray Allen and Paul Pierce.   No matter their ups and downs and their battles through injuries, they have been consummate team superstars since being brought together.   Each has left his ego at the door for the success of the team and you really have to admire that.   The Celtics would NOT be the team they are today without either of them.   Enough said! I started a thread last night called “ GAME ON:   Celtics versus Pistons ” to solicit comments ON LAST NIGHT’S GAME!   Both “kyceltic” and “P34” have hijacked that thread and transformed it to their own personal, back-and-forth argument of who is better, Allen or Pierce.  Guys, they are both GREAT! So in their honor (“kyceltic” and “P34”), here is a thread to which you guys can debate what has to be the most ridiculous debate I’ve heard on b.com.   I normally enjoy reading both of your thought-provoking posts but, on this, “ argue on your own thread ” or on one created for that nonsense. As best said by my squad leader during Plebe year, “ HAVE AT IT ”!
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

     Hold it right there Petey, you forgot to include ONEONONE, And Fierce's multiple personalities. I 've been holding them off for 2 days now. Thanks for your support!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    Great Post, Petey.  Beautifully done.

    Maybe we'll get KyCeltic and P34 to come back with insightful views about the Celtics and the league rather than this death spiral personal hate battle they have going.   P34 starts it with digging up all those posts from the past and then KY falls into the trap by bashing Pierce.  And away they go.  If only they would ler their alternate and insightful personalities come back and join the more relevant discussions!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce


     P34 starts it, i hope he reads that!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    And KY falls into the trap and away they go.......
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PACelt. Show PACelt's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    Ray wins a foot race and Paul wins a hot dog eating contest, maybe arm wrestling.

    Good to have both of them!!!

    PA
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    PP will retire one of the top 5 Celtics of all time.

    I'm not sure where RA stands. He's definately a HOF. If they win 2 more titles, he and KGs numbers will go to the rafters.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    As good as Ray is and now how much I love the guy and all of his class, he's been at Milwaukee and Seattle for the bulk of his career.  So you're right Bias, unless we win 2 more titles, he can't be viewed as a long term celtic who's number is retired.  But, he's a HOF'er on the basis of his career and being the all time best 3 point shooter (crowned in about a month).
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE]Great Post, Petey.  Beautifully done. Maybe we'll get KyCeltic and P34 to come back with insightful views about the Celtics and the league rather than this death spiral personal hate battle they have going.   P34 starts it with digging up all those posts from the past and then KY falls into the trap by bashing Pierce.  And away they go.  If only they would ler their alternate and insightful personalities come back and join the more relevant discussions!
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    The reason why I dig those posts from the past is I don't think kyceltic is a true Celtic fan. Last season when the Celtics were struggling he wanted Doc fired. He also said he would trade Ray Allen for Danny Granger in a minute. How ironic is that? 

    A true Celtic fan would never say that Paul Pierce is just a Mitch Richmond type of player. Even Ray Allen is a better player than Mitch Richmond. 

    Pierce's ability to score from anywhere on the court gives him the edge over Ray when it comes down to who's better. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    P34, I must admit, it's funny how you attach KY's old posts, some from as far back as January 2010 to prove your point.  You guys really go at it and it's kind of funny that neither is relenting.

    I cannot believe KY compared Pierce to Mitch Richmond.

    You guys crack me up.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from genaro008. Show genaro008's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    Chemistry is so important to winning the Lakers and Spurs year after year are relevant because they have a core nucleolus in tact. We been relevant since the Big 3 came together.  Ray is perfect for what we do with the ball.  He is able to cut and move so well without the ball. He can slash to keep people honest.  Ray takes so much pressure off Paul because the oppositions 3 and 2 have to play honest D.  Paul creates his own shot like very few players in the league. He gets teams in foul trouble as he has the knack for making moves and getting the defender on his feet and getting the foul. He takes pressure off Ray as his movement with the ball gets players to play off Ray and play help defense against him and Ray is able to get open for the outside shot. KG is the quarterback on the defensive end and is the soul of this team no doubt about it. His mid range jump shot opens things up for both Ray and Paul as he moves the 4 or the 5 out the box to cover him.  

    We are the sum of our parts one without the other at this point in their careers as the all play off each others strengths and cover each others weaknesses. I never considered Ray or Paul great defenders but the way each has taken on some of the best 2 and 3’s in the league they both changed there philosophy for the better of the team. Remember they way Pierce played Kobe in the finals 3 years ago or for that mater Ray and Pierce covered Lebron (with help of TA in sprits) I hope they stay here till the end of their respective contracts and teach the younger players to take over the way the old Celtics teams bridged the generations before.

    sorry posted in game thread ment to post here.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce :  Hold it right there Petey, you forgot to include ONEONONE, And Fierce's multiple personalities. I 've been holding them off for 2 days now. Thanks for your support!!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    No longer involved with you. Go away.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    They are different types of players of course as many noted... I'm VERY glad we've had them both.

    We all watched Paul grow from the skinny Kansas kid dropping to 10th, thru the Pitino years/horrible stabbing, '02 heroics and surprise East finals trip, the lean years before KG/Ray, Finals MVP, bleed green, love the game, one of only 4 players of his generation (Kobe/Dirk/Duncan) to retire in 1 uni.... all that. He holds a place in our hearts and is a top 5 Celtic EVER with Russ, Cooz, Bird and Havlicek.

    That being said.....

    If you are starting a team and can take a 21 year old Ray for the next dozen or a 21 year old Pierce nobody NOBODY in their right MIND should take Pierce over Ray.

    You can go out and find a jack of all trades good at many things great at one (buckets) SF who'd give you 75% of what Paul would (18p - 5r - 3a - 1s). A guy who can score in the paint, be decent from 3 and have a killer elbow fade.

    You cannot as easily find another Ray. He is a shooting wonder, a much more rare talent. A guy you can pencil in for clutch back breaking shots (not hit or miss hero ball) and an overall quiet 23 per in his prime. He, Reggie Miller and Jerry West are the 3 best shooting SG's of all time and 3 of the top 7 SG's EVER.

    There are about 10 SF's better than Pierce in the history of the game. Another 10 just about as good and another 20 you'd gladly take over him if you had a once in a genearation SG like Ray Allen beside him over your other option of Pierce and a SG in the 20-40 range all-time.

    Just the 'truth' Love you Paul
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE] P34 starts it, i hope he reads that!!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    Don't blame it all on P34.  You do your share to get it started.  Don't deny it.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE]They are different types of players of course as many noted... I'm VERY glad we've had them both. We all watched Paul grow from the skinny Kansas kid dropping to 10th, thru the Pitino years/horrible stabbing, '02 heroics and surprise East finals trip, the lean years before KG/Ray, Finals MVP, bleed green, love the game, one of only 4 players of his generation (Kobe/Dirk/Duncan) to retire in 1 uni.... all that. He holds a place in our hearts and is a top 5 Celtic EVER with Russ, Cooz, Bird and Havlicek. That being said..... If you are starting a team and can take a 21 year old Ray for the next dozen or a 21 year old Pierce nobody NOBODY in their right MIND should take Pierce over Ray. You can go out and find a jack of all trades good at many things great at one (buckets) SF who'd give you 75% of what Paul would (18p - 5r - 3a - 1s). A guy who can score in the paint, be decent from 3 and have a killer elbow fade. You cannot as easily find another Ray. He is a shooting wonder, a much more rare talent. A guy you can pencil in for clutch back breaking shots (not hit or miss hero ball) and an overall quiet 23 per in his prime. He, Reggie Miller and Jerry West are the 3 best shooting SG's of all time and 3 of the top 7 SG's EVER. There are about 10 SF's better than Pierce in the history of the game. Another 10 just about as good and another 20 you'd gladly take over him if you had a once in a genearation SG like Ray Allen beside him over your other option of Pierce and a SG in the 20-40 range all-time. Just the 'truth' Love you Paul
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Uh no.  Its not the truth.  Its your opinion.  Yea just go out and pick a Paul off a tree.  There are so many of him.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE]They are different types of players of course as many noted... I'm VERY glad we've had them both. We all watched Paul grow from the skinny Kansas kid dropping to 10th, thru the Pitino years/horrible stabbing, '02 heroics and surprise East finals trip, the lean years before KG/Ray, Finals MVP, bleed green, love the game, one of only 4 players of his generation (Kobe/Dirk/Duncan) to retire in 1 uni.... all that. He holds a place in our hearts and is a top 5 Celtic EVER with Russ, Cooz, Bird and Havlicek. That being said..... If you are starting a team and can take a 21 year old Ray for the next dozen or a 21 year old Pierce nobody NOBODY in their right MIND should take Pierce over Ray. You can go out and find a jack of all trades good at many things great at one (buckets) SF who'd give you 75% of what Paul would (18p - 5r - 3a - 1s). A guy who can score in the paint, be decent from 3 and have a killer elbow fade. You cannot as easily find another Ray. He is a shooting wonder, a much more rare talent. A guy you can pencil in for clutch back breaking shots (not hit or miss hero ball) and an overall quiet 23 per in his prime. He, Reggie Miller and Jerry West are the 3 best shooting SG's of all time and 3 of the top 7 SG's EVER. There are about 10 SF's better than Pierce in the history of the game. Another 10 just about as good and another 20 you'd gladly take over him if you had a once in a genearation SG like Ray Allen beside him over your other option of Pierce and a SG in the 20-40 range all-time. Just the 'truth' Love you Paul
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

     That's what i've been trying to tell them for 2 long years. Maybe they will believe you!!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    http://www.csnne.com/01/20/11/The-Halfway-MVP/landing_insider_levine.html?blockID=395286&feedID=3945

    Pierce is the halfway MVP according to one columnist.

    1. Paul Pierce

    Ray probably leads the team in late-game heroics this season — although Pierce is still real close on that level — but no one’s willed the Celtics to more victories this season than the Captain. 

    As usual, it’s never been exceptionally flashy (unless you count that dunk in Toronto, which for Pierce is enough flash to last the whole season); workman-like is the best way to describe it. But over the course of this long season, no one has taken more potentially lazy, regular-season losses and turned them into wins like Pierce.

    Like Allen, he’s having the best year of his career from the field (.514) and is one-hundredth of a point behind his career best from three (.413). He’s leading the team in scoring for the 11th straight season, and despite the fact that KG is the team’s most vocal on/off the court leader, and Rondo might be the most statistically impressive guy on that roster, Pierce has still maintained a quiet control of the situation.

    He’s still the guy they lean on when it matters most, and still the guy capable of carrying the greatest load. 

    And he’s also the first-half MVP 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce :  That's what i've been trying to tell them for 2 long years. Maybe they will believe you!!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    I find that hard to believe considering you would trade Ray Allen for Danny Granger in a minute. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce : Uh no.  Its not the truth.  Its your opinion.  Yea just go out and pick a Paul off a tree.  There are so many of him.
    Posted by OneOnOne[/QUOTE]


    Ha... clearly that is what i said...

    I meant it as I'd rather take elite superstar SG Ray and then add a very good starter like Caron Butler, Andre Iguodala or Luol Deng next to him at SF. Those guys give you 75% of PP and are easier to find.

    If I chose elite superstar Pierce at SF and then went to find a SG who'd give me 75% of what Ray does I'd end up with Morrow, Jason Terry or Michael Redd...

    Clearly Ray is a talent that is harder to replace. I'd say they are both equally in the same range historically as all-time greats.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeamUmbutu. Show TeamUmbutu's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    Sorry guys,

    This parochial stuff about longevity as a Celtic should be tossed out the window. The big three should all go to the rafter or none at all. They win together like Celtics, and they play together like Celtic. The only real argument is who will go first. My guess is that it will be the first one to retire.

    There is a good chance that next year will be an abbreviated season with a lock out. Enjoy them while you can, and appreciate all three.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce : Ha... clearly that is what i said... I meant it as I'd rather take elite superstar SG Ray and then add a very good starter like Caron Butler, Andre Iguodala or Luol Deng next to him at SF. Those guys give you 75% of PP and are easier to find. If I chose elite superstar Pierce at SF and then went to find a SG who'd give me 75% of what Ray does I'd end up with Morrow, Jason Terry or Michael Redd... Clearly Ray is a talent that is harder to replace. I'd say they are both equally in the same range historically as all-time greats.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    The Seattle Sonics already tried that formula, rame. Remember when it was Rashard Lewis at SF and Ray Allen at SG?

    Rashard Lewis had his best years when he was with the Sonics and playing with Ray. But they never went far in the playoffs.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeamUmbutu. Show TeamUmbutu's posts

    Re: Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce

    With Ray approaching Millers three point record, shooting at an amaizing shooting percentage, and hitting clutch shots, it is hard not to focus on his Ray right now. I am very happy for him, and the team.

    Much of this would not be happening without the team. My guess is that he would set the three point record anywhere eventually, however; it is the unselfish offensive play, and pick your poison offense that allows him to shoot at such a high percentage as much as the fact that he is in great shape.

    Other important facts and arguments can be made for the other members of the big three or four.

    The "my star is bigger than your star" argument has no end game, because much of it is based on emotion, and it usually brings out the worst in people.
    Enjoy the fight.
     

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