Re up BBD now!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Icon11. Show Icon11's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now!:
    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now! : yes, who wouldn't be inconsistent playing with a black hole clanker machine like sheed.  who wouldn't be inconsistent watching a loafer get guaranteed minutes after you've had to kick and scratch for everything you've gotten in the nba?
    Posted by aciemvp

    I notice you didn't respond to my points about him missing signifant time because he was injured fighting with a friend or that this off season he complained about not knowing what is role was.

    I love his game.  I was just pointing the obvious.  That there are reasons he hasn't been extended.  If you just want to respond to one point in my post and cut out the rest then I can't help you man.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Icon11. Show Icon11's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    He also is an average rebounder at best.  He pulls down 9.5 rebounds per 48 minutes.  That puts him 43rd out of forwards.  All Forwards, not just power forwards.  For comparison Matt Barnes is pulling down 11.2.  Good old Shelden Williams is at 14.6.  Landry Fields who is a guard is at 11.7.

    Again I love Davis and he is playing very well.  He has great hands, hustles, draws chargers, has some nice moves and is developing a really nice outside shot.  I would love to see him resigned.  But between missing time for an offseason fight and his very mediocre rebounding I am not sure why people are surprised Ainge hasn't done it yet.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now!:
    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now! : I notice you didn't respond to my points about him missing time because he was injured and missed significant time because he was fighting with a friend or that this off season he complained about not knowing what is role was.
    Posted by Icon11


    so sorry. did not mean to cut out the heart of your arguement.  if i didn't respond to it then i find it to be a non-issue, but we'll go through it. 

    YES, davis made a dumb move when he punched back at his friend and broke his thumb.  NO, it was by no means worse than having to watch sheed on his MINUTE ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM all of last year.  If Davis had loafed or in discriminately bricked for 2 minutes of what Sheed did all of last year, he probably would have been D-leauge bound but definitely BENCHED.  Sheed could not seem to achieve the pine splinter though- how odd!!  For what we got out of sheed, it wasn't worth it.  For what we got out of, and continue to get out of Davis, an off court set back like the thumb is bad but not a reason to give up on the guy.

    It is my particular opinion that Doc is a difficult coach for a young player to break in with unless your name is rondo and you have ainge's foot up your back side to hand him the starting role.  The Celts haven't always given davis a fair shot, Doc has been quick to criticize and shake his head, and then out of the other side of his mouth he runs sheed non-stop for 28 minutes a game of horrible, lazy, lead evaporating, barfe inducing play.

    So I don't really see how that all squares up- I think Davis' 'bad reputation' lives largely in doc's head and was a convenient way for Doc to hold him back.  When both Powe and Davis were on the team together, things never made much sense to me.  Davis mopped the floor with the Pistons in a crucial game his rookie year and then was promptly buried back onto the bench to prevent any more freak accidents like that from happening- at least it seemed to me.

    And all the while the Rondo's and the Sheed's can almost never get benched or criticized no matter how much they loaf, brick or blunder.  There ARE two standards at play here- and I think you'd be remiss not to recognize it.  It is what it is- and it should be taken into consideration when filtering all of the inconsequential reputation dust that has been kicked up about Davis in the last few years.

    And as for "now knowing what his role was"- I'd say that was a stupid thing to say, and beyond that, who cares.  I think the best thing about Davis is that his role is amorphous from game to game- sometimes you need him to tick off and push around Nene, Bynum or Howard and other times you need him to be more of a 4 and maybe he is best when he's all of everything, including defensive havoc-maker.  He may at his soul-searching-est-most-self-focused moment find that to be a little bit professionally unfulfilling, but I did not see any lasting consequneces of what he said that day.

    So, that is the long way of saying (and why) that I don't give any credence to the knocks of Davis' maturity and his 20 second dumb sound bite in front of a microphone this season.  I would credit that dumb sound bite probably more to Doc not having said anything to him about how his role was going to change with TWO NEW veteran bigs on the roster than anything else and that would be typical Doc when it comes to Davis- crap on him and then gladly harvest the benefits when they come in, now on a nightly basis. 

    I mean honestly, if you were Davis and you saw how horrendous it was to play with Sheed last year, wouldn't you be wondering with TWO new vet bigs on the roster?  I would be.  And no, he still shouldn't have said it into a microphone.

    And if you want to go back to "Davis cried because of KG" then i'd also put that down as a non-event.  Why?  Becuase when the whistle blows and the ball is live, this kid has done NOTHING but try his very hardest and achieve important things for this team to enable winning and his contriubtions are ever growing in breadth and magnitude from year to year.  You just don't find players IN THIS DAY AND AGE who are willing to give up their body, role (from night to night) and everything they can for the cause of winning like Davis does. 

    I think that covers it.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now!:
    He also is an average rebounder at best.  He pulls down 9.5 rebounds per 48 minutes.  That puts him 43rd out of forwards.  All Forwards, not just power forwards.
    Posted by Icon11


    Yes, Davis, like all players who are 24 in the league with an abbreviated college career has things he needs to work on.  His rebounding is one of them.  Leaping ability is another.  They go hand in hand.  Maybe the leaping will never come.  And then every so often he jumps really well for a highlight reel block on someone. 

    Hard to figure out.  So for now, more work on footwork and consistent leaping needs to happen.  At the end of the day he may be just too short to be a superior traffic rebounder, but he can still lead a bench unit on an elite team in the league.

    All in all, his rebounding has improved this year.  There are still games where I see that he could do much more in that regard.  However, some sort of a mulligan has to be given regarding other things that he does that NOBODY else does- like the taking of the charges.  That is a turnover for the other team.  He leads the league int hat.

    For now, do we need a perfect Davis to have him worth re-signing?  No.  For cripe sakes, look at our "star" point guard who rims FT's at 42% and falling.  Let's not complain too much.  So, every young player needs to improve.  There are no rose colored glasses on when I look at Davis.  But I also see a lot of significant POSITIVE intangibles about the guy that you can count the guys in the league on one hand who bring that sort of energy to the game. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Icon11. Show Icon11's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now!:
    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now! : so sorry. did not mean to cut out the heart of your arguement.  if i didn't respond to it then i find it to be a non-issue, but we'll go through it.  YES, davis made a dumb move when he punched back at his friend and broke his thumb.  NO, it was by no means worse than having to watch sheed on his MINUTE ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM all of last year.  If Davis had loafed or in discriminately bricked for 2 minutes of what Sheed did all of last year, he probably would have been D-leauge bound but definitely BENCHED.  Sheed could not seem to achieve the pine splinter though- how odd!!  For what we got out of sheed, it wasn't worth it.  For what we got out of, and continue to get out of Davis, an off court set back like the thumb is bad but not a reason to give up on the guy. It is my particular opinion that Doc is a difficult coach for a young player to break in with unless your name is rondo and you have ainge's foot up your back side to hand him the starting role.  The Celts haven't always given davis a fair shot, Doc has been quick to criticize and shake his head, and then out of the other side of his mouth he runs sheed non-stop for 28 minutes a game of horrible, lazy, lead evaporating, barfe inducing play. So I don't really see how that all squares up- I think Davis' 'bad reputation' lives largely in doc's head and was a convenient way for Doc to hold him back.  When both Powe and Davis were on the team together, things never made much sense to me.  Davis mopped the floor with the Pistons in a crucial game his rookie year and then was promptly buried back onto the bench to prevent any more freak accidents like that from happening- at least it seemed to me. And all the while the Rondo's and the Sheed's can almost never get benched or criticized no matter how much they loaf, brick or blunder.  There ARE two standards at play here- and I think you'd be remiss not to recognize it.  It is what it is- and it should be taken into consideration when filtering all of the inconsequential reputation dust that has been kicked up about Davis in the last few years. And as for "now knowing what his role was"- I'd say that was a stupid thing to say, and beyond that, who cares.  I think the best thing about Davis is that his role is amorphous from game to game- sometimes you need him to tick off and push around Nene, Bynum or Howard and other times you need him to be more of a 4 and maybe he is best when he's all of everything, including defensive havoc-maker.  He may at his soul-searching-est-most-self-focused moment find that to be a little bit professionally unfulfilling, but I did not see any lasting consequneces of what he said that day. So, that is the long way of saying (and why) that I don't give any credence to the knocks of Davis' maturity and his 20 second dumb sound bite in front of a microphone this season.  I would credit that dumb sound bite probably more to Doc not having said anything to him about how his role was going to change with TWO NEW veteran bigs on the roster than anything else and that would be typical Doc when it comes to Davis- crap on him and then gladly harvest the benefits when they come in, now on a nightly basis.  I mean honestly, if you were Davis and you saw how horrendous it was to play with Sheed last year, wouldn't you be wondering with TWO new vet bigs on the roster?  I would be.  And no, he still shouldn't have said it into a microphone. And if you want to go back to "Davis cried because of KG" then i'd also put that down as a non-event.  Why?  Becuase when the whistle blows and the ball is live, this kid has done NOTHING but try his very hardest and achieve important things for this team to enable winning and his contriubtions are ever growing in breadth and magnitude from year to year.  You just don't find players IN THIS DAY AND AGE who are willing to give up their body, role (from night to night) and everything they can for the cause of winning like Davis does.  I think that covers it.
    Posted by aciemvp

    Well put and I have to say I agree with you.  With that said I was more responding to those saying "What has Ainge been waiting for?"  I think Ainge has been waiting for Davis to show some maturity and for him to put it all together.  He has. Although I do still worry about his rebounding. If you are going to play a big 30 minutes a game he simply has to get more than 5 boards.  But that does not discount the fact that the other parts of his game are strong and improving.

    I also agree about Sheed by the way.  He was horrible.



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now!:
    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now! : Well put and I have to say I agree with you.  With that said I was more responding to those saying "What has Ainge been waiting for?" 
    Posted by Icon11


    you know, i think everyone might be waiting on both sides of the fence.  i can't remember hearing about someone getting an extension this year, you?  the league is hardballing 1/2 pay cuts, but nothing stern does is ever tough, so maybe 1/3 or 1/4? 

    there's going to be some serious comeuppin's for both sides of the fence and it may be agents are counseling players not to under-sign and franchises vice versa not to over-sign. 

    i think the league is in deep crap and there could be 7 or 8 "stimulus packages" like new orleans waiting to happen. but selfishly, i don't want this to cut into the c's rapidly closing window next year. 

    but things do have to change.  there can't be more calvin booths, mark blounts and other stiffs harvesting tens of millions for nada and the top eschelon is also wildly overpaid.  at a certain point, even the gazillionaire jock sniffers run out of desire to take a beating every year to "own" a franchise that owns them.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now!:
    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now! : ok, so now we have the spot where the foot is in the mouth and we're still talking through the toes.  davis-level talent STILL being drafted every year, duds?  really?  at WHAT spot in the draft, 2nd round?  that gave us years of cheap service from davis. NAME ME some of the bigs that have come along in davis' class and since who can replace him for 5 or 6M a year and do the same things- back up 4 and back up 5. WHEN HEALTHY, the C's have been the best in the league, eh?  OK, so who's the healthiest big man we have?  Who's the sixth man of the year, possibly league wide?  and he's just such a common sight that he's not worth trying to sign? So that means we go from being the "best" this year to not being worth re-signing the 6th man who helped make us the best for next year, all of the big 3 are here again.  After that, you can dump Davis if need be, but why before then? I'd say offer him 5m a year x 3 and talk to him about the 1/3 likely pay cut that's coming down the pike and see if he takes it.  5M a year next year is yesterday's 7.4M a year, a fair offer by all means.  It might make sense to Davis and his agent to get him locked up before the chiseling begins...  I'd go to 6M a year even. And you'd go to no lengths to re-sign this hustle guy who is unprecedented in the league.  The only guy who comes to mind for game changing bench player who is similar is bird man andersen in denver- a different type of spark off the bench, but hustle and grit, no outside shooting ability, no free throw ability and good luck with him guarding a 275 pound center.  And you have to worry about him and the dope problems too. So just come right out and tell us who the many many guys are who replace Davis and we still are able to contend next year.  Criteria are: similar money, TRUE 4/5 versatility, outside shot, decent foul shot, no history of injury / mental delapidation, and STILL has to have some upside left- Davis is still adding to his game each year if you didn't notice. Names please.  There are none.  Vyrus Thomas makes 8M a year, Charlie V makes 7+M a year and I wouldn't want either on my team to try to do the things Davis does.  So who is it?  Hakim Warrick?  Matt Carroll?  Antony Toliver?  Brian Cardinal?  Mark Acres?
    Posted by aciemvp


    Wow...... Blair..... I didn't need 3000 words for that.....

    What you and many of your ilk cannot even beging to comprehend / imagine / deduce / think through for yourself is that none of the players that you or anyone else can come up with as players that may fill this stereotype is that none of them play for Doc, none of them playe with KG, and so on and so forth.   So if you add Dickson you get everything Davis and obtw he is athletic.

    Given this ignorance and inability or desire not to imagine or think outside the box I cannot begin to try to explain my perspective.

    There is no reason to believe that if KG and Doc were not in Earl Clark's ear every single minute of every single day that he would not be as good if not better than Big Baby....

    Attempt to use your imagine without keeping all other factors stagnant.........

    Just as the Cs would be no worse off with Brandon Jennings at the point, the Cs would be no worse off with Jason Thompson, Jordan Hill, Blair, and so on as a back up tweener 4.....

    If you could make at least a subtle attempt to remove players from their current situation and who they play with and by whom they are coached you may be able to realize that there are any number of players that are superior or at least as good as Baby........

    Give me Deandre Jordan in lieu of Big Baby with KG up his A%% and Doc as his coach and then not only would we not miss Baby but we would be saying Perkins who?????

    Stop the nonsense and try to make at least a reasonable assessment before annoying me.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from joel49. Show joel49's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    "If you could make at least a subtle attempt to remove players from their current situation and who they play with and by whom they are coached you may be able to realize that there are any number of players that are superior or at least as good as Baby........"

    No argument there, Dud, but the point is that Davis is a great fit for the current cast of players.  Why would you want to try to break someone else into a new system when you already have the perfect compliment?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now!:
    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now! : Wow...... Blair..... Posted by TheDUDDER


    dejuan blair, no ligaments and all?  he can't shoot outside, can't jump either.  deandre jordan is a sub-perkins level of talent.

    are you serious?  who's going to pick up the outside shooting, help defense and charges taken? 

    and this deandre jordan, what a frreaking joke.  he's on the clips and its taken him years to carve himself out 7 and 5.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maryngary. Show maryngary's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    Davis is a needed now and future part of a good team, he will be cheaper now, he has proven many on this board wrong.  Sign him now.  Bradley looks a lot like a small tonly allen, let him go.  Luke could play and help us right now , but Doc must have it in for him.  D.  West is need back as soon as possible, Nate is not a point guard and has problems.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    and neither of those clowns are going to play a second at back up 4.  they have to teach deandre how to walk before each game, don't expect him to being d-ing up any 4's.

    all in all, your depth of thought is so shallow that if i dove into it i'd break my neck.  i understand griping with rondo and comparing other fully sound fundametal point guards to him, but with davis you're just being a reckless jackwagon, guilty of the worst sort of intellectual tomfoolery- dismantling a contender team for the sake of doing so, with no added benefit by suggesting sub par dipsticks to replace the 6th man of the year.  talk about annoying.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now!:
    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now! : I agree, I think - when healthy - the Cs are the best and deepest team in the league
    Posted by TheDUDDER


    My gosh you are so wishy washy it is simply laughable. You realize you are contradicting yourself />\?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    Baby will only kill our cap if we give him an extension that pays him 5+ million for '12-'13.

    Current CBA says you cannot make more or less than 15% each year.

    So I'd offer Baby a 5 year deal just under the MLE b/c that is likely to be what a team uses to get him. I'd assume he'd leave a couple million on the table to stay in Boston, esp with the promise to start @ PF after 2012. The full MLE is about what all 5th starter/6th man role players get.

    So 5 years 26.5 million.

    Pay him 5m in '12, 4.25m in '13 (not cap killing) 5m '14, 5.75m '15 and 6.5m in '16.

    If somebody way under the cap offered Baby 7+ million per year than you'd have to let him walk.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    If Baby is given the kind of contract I think David West will get, like 4 years 36 million, then maybe there will be no other suitors for West left that can offer him that type of deal and we can get him here for the same full MLE offers he'd get elsewhere.

    West is 28. He'd be an upgrade to Baby splitting time w/ KG next year Then in his prime for the first 2 years after KG's contract is up. Pierce is here for 2 more years after KG/Ray and is more than a year younger than KG and more than 2 years younger than Ray. People should not lump him in with them.

    After 2012:

    C - Perk at age 27 defending the rim, back to health, giving us 11p 9r 2b @ hopefully 6m or so. If Perk takes a 1 year deal to try and show he deserves a big (9+ million) contract then maybe we let him go and sign Kaman or someone like that in '12. Semih will be here making like 500K.

    So lets say 7 million.

    PF - Baby or West @ 4.5m

    SF - Pierce at 16.5m

    SG - nobody, lets just say we keep West and Nate paired since they are both in their 20's and looked electric together... 6 million

    PG - Rondo 11 million, Avery 2m

    That is 47 million. It will be anywhere from 7 to 11 million under the cap, depending on new CBA.

    That is should enough to get another wing scorer to pair w/ Rondo (like Gerald Wallace or OJ Mayo).

    Maybe KG and Ray will return @ vet minimum contracts like Shaq or split the MLE. (if we get Mayo then Allen comes back over DWest). Trade Avery and a pick for a role player if KG/Ray split the MLE, or draft another 19 yr old or foreign risk and use full MLE to get that unknown player.

    Such a team will still compete for a championship, probably 4th best team in East behind Heat, Knicks (w/ Melo) and Bulls.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    sorry, i overshot on deandre.  5.7ppg.  43% FT and a 38% career FT shooter.  if ray allen suddenly went blind, i'm sure he could still shoot 38%.  still want deandre out there in crunch time duddo?  hack-a-deandre.  doesn't have a good flow to it. 

    but what begs questioning the most is you howl about rondo shooting 42% from the line and thirst to replace 78% shooting davis with 40% shooting neanderthal jordan?  ever hear of the dennis hopson effect?  jordans 5.7 and 5.6 on the clips is probably good for half that on the c's.

    do you just hate "fat" people?  you make no sense at all, just trying to figure out your angle.  but in the mean time, keep playing powerball, it has better odds than dejuan canning an 18 foot jumper in a game!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from c.wright. Show c.wright's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    Please resign BBD he is an excellent 6th man and the team really
    needs him. Pleaseeeeee don't mess this up now.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    BBD is like Rondo a unique player who cannot be pigeon holed because of certain holes in his game.  You watch him night in and night out and he just gets the job done.  Today he hit five consecutive jump shots to keep the Pacers at bay down the stretch. He can take a charge and punishment and just be stronger and more determined than other players in his position.  He is also one of the great characters in the game and to lose such a signature player would be a disgrace. He is deserving and a real member of this Celtic team that we like so much.  Sign him and get it done. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    BBD is developing a cold blooded swagger to him that I would prefer not to face if he were to change uniforms. 
     
    Pud
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Re up BBD now!

    In Response to Re: Re up BBD now!:
    BBD is developing a cold blooded swagger to him that I would prefer not to face if he were to change uniforms.    Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin


    duddsy thinks deandre (insult to michael) jordan is interchangeable with davis.  all i can say is i'm glad dudd is not the GM for the Celts.  dangerous thinking pretty much sums it up.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share