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Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/22/2012 9:51 PM EDT

Fiercest34
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concord27 is saying the Celts didn't address this problem. Not totally true.

By removing Ray and JO the Celts got younger. That means more hustle from younger players. Celts have more chance of getting those 50-50 balls with Lee and Wilcox, Bass, or even Sully than if the Celts had Ray and JO with Pierce, KG, and Rondo.

The main reason why the Celts didn't get a big who can rebound, like Kris Humphries, is because the Celts simply couldn't afford them. Humphries got 12m per and Ilyasova got 9m per. Totally out of the Celts price range. The only way the Celts could have gotten those players is if the Celts renounced all their FAs to free up cap room.

Overall the Celts got better in rebounding by just becoming a younger team. Right now it's true the Celts will not be like the Lakers when it comes to rebounding. But as long as the Celts are a decent rebounding team, then the Celts will always be a threat to every NBA team on any given night.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/24/2012 2:43 AM EDT

PHX85014
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In Response to Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

concord27 is saying the Celts didn't address this problem. Not totally true. By removing Ray and JO the Celts got younger. That means more hustle from younger players. Celts have more chance of getting those 50-50 balls with Lee and Wilcox, Bass, or even Sully than if the Celts had Ray and JO with Pierce, KG, and Rondo. The main reason why the Celts didn't get a big who can rebound, like Kris Humphries, is because the Celts simply couldn't afford them. Humphries got 12m per and Ilyasova got 9m per. Totally out of the Celts price range. The only way the Celts could have gotten those players is if the Celts renounced all their FAs to free up cap room. Overall the Celts got better in rebounding by just becoming a younger team. Right now it's true the Celts will not be like the Lakers when it comes to rebounding. But as long as the Celts are a decent rebounding team, then the Celts will always be a threat to every NBA team on any given night.
Posted by Fiercest34

QUESTION: WHO WILL BE THE BETTER $9M/pr FREE AGENT SIGNING: JEFF GREEN OR Ilyasova ? Is Ilyasova hyped or is he really a bigtime power forward ?
And would Ilyasova be a better fit with the Celtics than Jeff Green ?

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/24/2012 4:14 AM EDT

Fiercest34
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Ilyasova is solid, but he's not All-Star caliber.

Jeff Green has more upside and could be an All-Star player some day. That's if he can play SF.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/24/2012 3:07 PM EDT

PuPirate
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

In Response to Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction : QUESTION: WHO WILL BE THE BETTER $9M/pr FREE AGENT SIGNING: JEFF GREEN OR Ilyasova ? Is Ilyasova hyped or is he really a bigtime power forward ? And would Ilyasova be a better fit with the Celtics than Jeff Green ?
Posted by PHX85014

...Green

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojAJgQOzJ44

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/24/2012 10:42 PM EDT

rameakap
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

In Response to Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction : QUESTION: WHO WILL BE THE BETTER $9M/pr FREE AGENT SIGNING: JEFF GREEN OR Ilyasova ? Is Ilyasova hyped or is he really a bigtime power forward ? And would Ilyasova be a better fit with the Celtics than Jeff Green ?
Posted by PHX85014

What is better Green, Bass and Terry

Or Ilyasova and Pietrus?

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 9:04 AM EDT

Gasthoerer
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In Response to Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

The main reason why the Celts didn't get a big who can rebound, like Kris Humphries, is because the Celts simply couldn't afford them.
Posted by Fiercest34

Correct!

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction : It was so frustrating watching Ray just let an opposing player get an offensive rebound because he was not boxing out. And as far as I can remember, I never saw Ray dive for a loose ball.
Posted by Fiercest34

Watch the games without you Anti-Ray glasses! I (and other here as well) saw Ray diving for lose balls last post season and also saw him grabbing crucial rebounds in the crunch time which won a game for us. Ray is not a worse rebounder that AB and had good rebounding #'s in last years playoffs.

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction : Pierce, Ray, and KG's rebounding numbers all went down starting in 2010. The stats are consistent, as the Big 3 grew old, they got worse in the rebounding department. Posted by Fiercest34

Just checked the stats and for the regulas season. For me it is difficult to make this jugment based on the stats of Ray and Pierce especially if you consider the minutes per game. At least the trend is very weak and cannot explain our total drop.

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction : In the 10 games that Ray started in the playoffs, the Celts only won the rebounding battle twice, Game 6 against the Sixers and Game 3 against the Heat. When Bradley was starting, the Celts outrebounded the Hawks in 3 of the 6 games of the series. They also outrebounded Philly in 2 of the first 4 games when Bradley was still starting. So without Bradley the Celts went 2-8. With Bradley the Celts went 5-5.
Posted by Fiercest34

You really think that is caused by the 2 boards/game by AB and his nose for lose balls? There is no correlation with the opponents getting better as you make a deeper run to the playoffs, KG being gased in the last games or Pierce getting injured and could't board to save his life (especially against James)? It is all AB vs. Allen, really? Wow, what an effect AB on our rebounding has in 25 minutes/game and with 2 bad shoulders.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 9:31 AM EDT

rameakap
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Actually I checked the stats and fierce is wrong on this one. The big 3 rebounded at practically the same rate the last 3 years as they did their first 2 years here. Pierce was exactly the same. The others saw a drop of less than 1 rebound per 36 minutes.

Yes they were all more injured starting with KG in '09 then they were prior to that. Meaning less talented backups got more mins. But when they were on the court doc played them at practically the same rate and they rebounded at the same level showing this idea that they didn't hustle and were just too old to be false.

Big 3 reb's per 36 mins '08-'09

KG - 10
PP - 5.2
Ray - 3.6

Big 3's reb's per 36 mins '10-'12

KG - 9.5
PP - 5.2
Ray - 3.3

I guess I was right when I put the onus more on the different supporting cast, playing in the same system that didn't put a high emphasis on rebounding, instea dof this 'big 3 got old' theory. although of course I assumed that had something to do with it, yeah all of 1 rebound a game....

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 11:37 AM EDT

Fiercest34
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

Actually I checked the stats and fierce is wrong on this one. The big 3 rebounded at practically the same rate the last 3 years as they did their first 2 years here. Pierce was exactly the same. The others saw a drop of less than 1 rebound per 36 minutes. Yes they were all more injured starting with KG in '09 then they were prior to that. Meaning less talented backups got more mins. But when they were on the court doc played them at practically the same rate and they rebounded at the same level showing this idea that they didn't hustle and were just too old to be false. Big 3 reb's per 36 mins '08-'09 KG - 10 PP - 5.2 Ray - 3.6 Big 3's reb's per 36 mins '10-'12 KG - 9.5 PP - 5.2 Ray - 3.3 I guess I was right when I put the onus more on the different supporting cast, playing in the same system that didn't put a high emphasis on rebounding, instea dof this 'big 3 got old' theory. although of course I assumed that had something to do with it, yeah all of 1 rebound a game....
Posted by rameakap

Why do you compute for per 36 mins when what you should be computing is actual stats. You're manipulating the facts!

2007-08

KG - 9.2 rpg

Pierce - 5.1 rpg

Ray - 3.7 rpg

2008-09

KG - 8.5 rpg

Pierce - 5.6 rpg

Ray - 3.5 rpg

2009-10

KG - 7.3 rpg

Pierce - 4.4 rpg

Ray - 3.2 rpg

2010-11

KG - 8.9 rpg

Pierce - 5.4 rpg

Ray - 3.4 rpg

2011-12

KG - 8.2 rpg

Pierce - 5.2 rpg

Ray - 3.1 rpg

Now tell me if the Big 3's numbers in rebounding didn't go down since 2009. Seriously, why are you using per 36 mins when you can use the actual rebounds per game.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 12:01 PM EDT

Fiercest34
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Seriously, rame, we didn't have Posey and PJ Brown in 2009 and KG missed 25 games. But the Celts averaged 42.1 rpg that season. They even bettered their 42.0 rpg in 2008. So it's not the style of play or the lack of emphasis on rebounding.

After 2009 the Celts never even averaged 40 boards per game. I mean for the last 3 seasons it's 38.6, 38.8, and 38.8. Only one thing is constant in the rebounding woes of the Celts, AGE!

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 2:25 PM EDT

PuPirate
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction : Why do you compute for per 36 mins when what you should be computing is actual stats. You're manipulating the facts! 2007-08 KG - 9.2 rpg Pierce - 5.1 rpg Ray - 3.7 rpg 2008-09 KG - 8.5 rpg Pierce - 5.6 rpg Ray - 3.5 rpg 2009-10 KG - 7.3 rpg Pierce - 4.4 rpg Ray - 3.2 rpg 2010-11 KG - 8.9 rpg Pierce - 5.4 rpg Ray - 3.4 rpg 2011-12 KG - 8.2 rpg Pierce - 5.2 rpg Ray - 3.1 rpg Now tell me if the Big 3's numbers in rebounding didn't go down since 2009. Seriously, why are you using per 36 mins when you can use the actual rebounds per game.
Posted by Fiercest34

...(sigh) As usual smh

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 5:31 PM EDT

rameakap
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The per 36 minute stat is used to show what the player produces if given an average of 36 minutes a game... it shows that the players ability to get rebounds in the actual minutes they were on the court barely decreased from '08-'11

It was more the mixed-matched moving chairs of a supporting cast than the big 3 to blame for that HUGE 3 rebound drop-off that you love to point out is the be all end all # to determine a title contender

it was injuries and not rebounds that killed us

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 8:52 PM EDT

Fiercest34
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

The per 36 minute stat is used to show what the player produces if given an average of 36 minutes a game... it shows that the players ability to get rebounds in the actual minutes they were on the court barely decreased from '08-'11 It was more the mixed-matched moving chairs of a supporting cast than the big 3 to blame for that HUGE 3 rebound drop-off that you love to point out is the be all end all # to determine a title contender it was injuries and not rebounds that killed us
Posted by rameakap

That's not true. In Game 7 of the 2010 Finals, the Lakers outrebounded the Celtics 53-40. The Celts allowed the Lakers to get 23 offensive rebounds in that game.

Last season against the Heat, the Celts only outrebounded the Heat once, in Game 3, in that 7-game series.

In the history of the NBA, no team has won a championship averaging less than 40 rebounds per game in the regular season. The Celts came close in 2010 when they just averaged 38.6 rpg. But in Game 7 of that 2010 Finals, rebounds was their downfall. You really expect to win a Game 7 if you give up 23 offensive rebounds?

Also, you can't use per 36 mins on the Big 3. There were seasons when Ray and Pierce averaged more than 36 minutes per game. Use actual stats.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 9:24 PM EDT

rameakap
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction : That's not true. In Game 7 of the 2010 Finals, the Lakers outrebounded the Celtics 53-40. The Celts allowed the Lakers to get 23 offensive rebounds in that game. Last season against the Heat, the Celts only outrebounded the Heat once, in Game 3, in that 7-game series. In the history of the NBA, no team has won a championship averaging less than 40 rebounds per game in the regular season. The Celts came close in 2010 when they just averaged 38.6 rpg. But in Game 7 of that 2010 Finals, rebounds was their downfall. You really expect to win a Game 7 if you give up 23 offensive rebounds? Also, you can't use per 36 mins on the Big 3. There were seasons when Ray and Pierce averaged more than 36 minutes per game. Use actual stats.
Posted by Fiercest34

so the game 7 celtics should blame the -13 rebounds and not their missing center and two HOFers playing on one leg?

and of course the insane FT disparity and phantom calls

we will never agree on this

but you CANNOT say it is 'not true'

I at least say rebounding was an issue, a distant 3rd, but still an issue... you can't speak in absolutes on this, and if you think rebounding was more of a problem for this team the past 3 years than injuries you need to...

PUT THAT COFFEE DOWN!

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 9:38 PM EDT

Fiercest34
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction : so the game 7 celtics should blame the -13 rebounds and not their missing center and two HOFers playing on one leg? and of course the insane FT disparity and phantom calls we will never agree on this but you CANNOT say it is 'not true' I at least say rebounding was an issue, a distant 3rd, but still an issue... you can't speak in absolutes on this, and if you think rebounding was more of a problem for this team the past 3 years than injuries you need to... PUT THAT COFFEE DOWN!
Posted by rameakap

It's all about stepping up. The Heat were without Bosh for 3 weeks, from Game 2 of the Pacers series up to Game 5 of the Celts series, that's 3 weeks of playoff games. But Lebron and the others stepped up in Bosh's absence.

Championship teams don't make excuses, they rise to the occasion.

Seriously, KG only had 3 rebounds in that Game 7 against the Lakers. Again, only 3 rebounds the whole game!

The Celts were in a position to do something special, win another Game 7 in LA, but our Big 3 didn't step up. Ray only made 1 FG from the 1st up to the 3rd qtr. KG had 3 total rebounds and 0 offensive rebounds. I mean there's always a reason for every loss.

Kobe only shot 6-24 FGs but Pau Gasol stepped up, kept the Lakers close until they could steal it in the end.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 9:39 PM EDT

Fiercest34
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rame

Coffee's for closers, not for sore losers.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 10:43 PM EDT

Fiercest34
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rame

I did more research.

This is what I found out:

When the Celts were going back to LA, they were leading the series against the Lakers 3-2. The result was a blowout, the Celts lost by 22 in Game 6. Lakers 52 rebounds, Celtics only 39 rebounds in that Game 6.

Last season the Celts were leading the Heat 3-2 in the ECF heading back to Boston. The Celts could've closed out the series in Boston. But the result was a 19-point victory by the Heat. Miami also outrebounded the Celts, 44-34, in that Game 6.

No rebounds, no rings!

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 11:35 PM EDT

mbrann
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Question -- if a player grabs a "loose ball"...does this count as a rebound? For example, if the ball bounces off the rim or backboard and then bounces on the floor and is then grabbed by a player.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 11:40 PM EDT

Fiercest34
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Question -- if a player grabs a "loose ball"...does this count as a rebound? For example, if the ball bounces off the rim or backboard and then bounces on the floor and is then grabbed by a player.
Posted by mbrann

That's a rebound!

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/25/2012 11:51 PM EDT

mbrann
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Makes sense...a rebound signals a new posession...it does not matter how it came about. So it's not all about height...speed, energy(youth) and enthusiasm help a lot. I keep hoping that Doc will...one of these years...limit the minutes of the Big Old 3 (now the Big Old 2) so that PP and KG can be fresh at the end.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/26/2012 12:01 AM EDT

Fiercest34
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

Makes sense...a rebound signals a new posession...it does not matter how it came about. So it's not all about height...speed, energy(youth) and enthusiasm help a lot. I keep hoping that Doc will...one of these years...limit the minutes of the Big Old 3 (now the Big Old 2) so that PP and KG can be fresh at the end.
Posted by mbrann

That's why by getting younger the Celts solved part of the rebounding problem. I mean how many times have we seen JO and Ray just stand there not going after a rebound or a loose ball. Last season I never saw Ray dive on the floor to fight for a loose ball.

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/26/2012 7:09 AM EDT

rameakap
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

rame I did more research. This is what I found out: When the Celts were going back to LA, they were leading the series against the Lakers 3-2. The result was a blowout, the Celts lost by 22 in Game 6. Lakers 52 rebounds, Celtics only 39 rebounds in that Game 6. Last season the Celts were leading the Heat 3-2 in the ECF heading back to Boston. The Celts could've closed out the series in Boston. But the result was a 19-point victory by the Heat. Miami also outrebounded the Celts, 44-34, in that Game 6. No rebounds, no rings!
Posted by Fiercest34

you can supply all the stats that everyone already knows...

if you think we lose to LA with the series tied 1-1 with Ray not having a bruised up leg/charlie horse or up 3-2 and Perk not going down within minutes of game 6 or if KG never needed surgery the year before, ur kidding yourself

if you think we lose to Miami with Bradley, Green and Wilcox in the series, or Ray/Pierce not being hurt at all you are kidding yourself as well.

Injuries come before rebounding issues my friend, there is no way around it

we win the series and the '10 and likely '12 title if we have no injuries... the rebounding issues were caused both by those injuries and Danny putting together a lineup that did not rely on rebounding as its main strength, but when everything was going right it did not matter that they were 38-39 reb teams...

they would have won if they were healthy

FACT

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/26/2012 11:48 AM EDT

Fiercest34
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction : you can supply all the stats that everyone already knows... if you think we lose to LA with the series tied 1-1 with Ray not having a bruised up leg/charlie horse or up 3-2 and Perk not going down within minutes of game 6 or if KG never needed surgery the year before, ur kidding yourself if you think we lose to Miami with Bradley, Green and Wilcox in the series, or Ray/Pierce not being hurt at all you are kidding yourself as well. Injuries come before rebounding issues my friend, there is no way around it we win the series and the '10 and likely '12 title if we have no injuries... the rebounding issues were caused both by those injuries and Danny putting together a lineup that did not rely on rebounding as its main strength, but when everything was going right it did not matter that they were 38-39 reb teams... they would have won if they were healthy FACT
Posted by rameakap

It's also A FACT that injuries are part of the game.

FACT 2: In 2010 Bynum had a partially torn meniscus and he played in all the games of the Finals. And you're complaining about a bruised leg?

FACT 3: Miami was without Bosh from Games 1 to 4. The Celts even led the series 3-2 heading into Boston for Game 6. And you compare Green's absence to Bosh's 3-week absence, in the playoffs, when it's A FACT that Jeff Green was never a part of the Celts last season.

FACT 4: Championship teams don't make excuses, they just win!

FACT 5: I can't believe you're such a sore loser. I mean in every loss there's always going to be a reason.

FACT 6: Pierce got injured in 2008, remember?

BOSTON -- Paul Pierce does not have any structural damage to his knee.

At least that's what the Boston Celtics are saying, although they haven't performed an MRI to take a look at exactly how badly Pierce damaged his meniscus when he was injured during the third quarter of Game 1 of the NBA Finals.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3429427

Pierce damaged his meniscus and went on to win Finals MVP. And you're complaining about Ray Allen's bruised leg? Ugh!

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/26/2012 1:15 PM EDT

rameakap
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So basically Pierce in '08 and Bynum in '10 are the same thing

you blame player effort going after the boards (or a lack of a player with reb skills on he team) and I say injuries are a BIGGER PROBLEM. It is quite clear to say that if player A.B,C and D were not hurt a team leading through 3 quarters of TWO game 7's likely advances..

And I am right, obv. injuries happen, injuries to the C's happened and kept them from winning, so you saying the teams didn't deserve to win b/c they didn't huslte, were too short and Danny didn't make _________ unknown move to help are all negative cowardly excuses when the injury 'excuse' was clearly the BIGGER obstacle to a title.

If LA lost in '10 they could point to Bynum's injury (that really only limited him in 1-2 games) as a reason, b/c it prob would've been a contributing factor, or Kobe's 6-24 when he was not hurt (Ray's 4-28 was obv. due to an INJURY). Many teams got to raise banners b/c they were healthy, many teams were going home ringless b/c injuries happened... we are talking about the bigger reason we lost.

complaining about 50-50 balls, the fact that we depending on a fat headcase who sat behind the 3 line or a fat 6'7" PF with alligator arms is neither here nor there, that was a title team without injuries and the '12 squad prob was as well

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/26/2012 5:16 PM EDT

Fiercest34
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In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

So basically Pierce in '08 and Bynum in '10 are the same thing you blame player effort going after the boards (or a lack of a player with reb skills on he team) and I say injuries are a BIGGER PROBLEM. It is quite clear to say that if player A.B,C and D were not hurt a team leading through 3 quarters of TWO game 7's likely advances.. And I am right, obv. injuries happen, injuries to the C's happened and kept them from winning, so you saying the teams didn't deserve to win b/c they didn't huslte, were too short and Danny didn't make _________ unknown move to help are all negative cowardly excuses when the injury 'excuse' was clearly the BIGGER obstacle to a title. If LA lost in '10 they could point to Bynum's injury (that really only limited him in 1-2 games) as a reason, b/c it prob would've been a contributing factor, or Kobe's 6-24 when he was not hurt (Ray's 4-28 was obv. due to an INJURY). Many teams got to raise banners b/c they were healthy, many teams were going home ringless b/c injuries happened... we are talking about the bigger reason we lost. complaining about 50-50 balls, the fact that we depending on a fat headcase who sat behind the 3 line or a fat 6'7" PF with alligator arms is neither here nor there, that was a title team without injuries and the '12 squad prob was as well
Posted by rameakap

The point is the Lakers of 2010 and the Heat of 2012 found ways to beat the Celts even if they were not 100%.

In 2008 Pierce got hurt but he stepped up. The Celts got a title even when Pierce wasn't 100%, right? So it's not true that if you suffer an injury, in the Finals or playoffs, you can't win. And please, a bruised leg?

I also showed you how the "no rebounds, no rings" theory was proven right in 2010 and 2012. Leading 3-2 heading into both Game 6s and the Celts couldn't close it out. In both Games 6 and 7 in both 2010 and 2012 the Celts lost the rebounding battle and eventually the game.

The bottomline is if you're put in a position to win, you rise to the occasion. Not make excuses about a bruised leg or that Jeff Green was injured. In fact, Jeff Green was never even a part of the Celts team last season.

You keep making excuses. Championship teams don't make excuses, they just win!

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Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

posted at 7/26/2012 5:30 PM EDT

BynumizaHERO
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Last: 8/7/2012

In Response to Re: Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction:

So basically Pierce in '08 and Bynum in '10 are the same thing you blame player effort going after the boards (or a lack of a player with reb skills on he team) and I say injuries are a BIGGER PROBLEM. It is quite clear to say that if player A.B,C and D were not hurt a team leading through 3 quarters of TWO game 7's likely advances.. And I am right, obv. injuries happen, injuries to the C's happened and kept them from winning, so you saying the teams didn't deserve to win b/c they didn't huslte, were too short and Danny didn't make _________ unknown move to help are all negative cowardly excuses when the injury 'excuse' was clearly the BIGGER obstacle to a title. If LA lost in '10 they could point to Bynum's injury (that really only limited him in 1-2 games) as a reason, b/c it prob would've been a contributing factor, or Kobe's 6-24 when he was not hurt (Ray's 4-28 was obv. due to an INJURY). Many teams got to raise banners b/c they were healthy, many teams were going home ringless b/c injuries happened... we are talking about the bigger reason we lost. complaining about 50-50 balls, the fact that we depending on a fat headcase who sat behind the 3 line or a fat 6'7" PF with alligator arms is neither here nor there, that was a title team without injuries and the '12 squad prob was as well
Posted by rameakap

What a moron. Wasn't 2010 when Kobe played with a torn ligament in his shooting hand and broken pinky finger for the ENTIRE season including that game 7 in which his team won the title? Not to mention the other injuries incurred throughout that year. You need to research more before you post, as you look very foolish.

http://dimemag.com/2010/01/kobe-bryants-mounting-injuries-raising-red-flags/

Rebounding: Addition by Subtraction

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