Rivers judge of talent????

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    My opinion is only that, I think Doc only installed Bradley for tough defense on which ever guard was hurting us the most. Nothing more.
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    In Response to Rivers judge of talent????:
    In today's Herald it was reported that the coach of the Israeli team he played for took 2 days to realize that Avery's talent was not as a point guard but the 2 guard. But his experience in Israel revealed a lot. Although Bradley’s team, Hapoel Jerusalem, started him off at point guard, the experiment ended after two games   They moved him to the 2,” Rivers said. “They tried to play him at the point, but when you watched the games he was at the 2, that told you they saw the same thing. The two games where he played well over there, he was at the 2. He flourished with the change So that brings up the question..........why did Rivers try to play him at the point all year ............can Rivers really judge talent.......does Rivers get tunnel visioned and try to convert someone to something they are not..........can he see the forest through the trees............after all it only took the Isreali coach 2 games........then Rivers chimes in they saw the same thing.........argst
    Posted by damfuno


    You know when I was reading that article I thought the same thing.  It took Israel or whoever 2 whole games to figure out he wasn't a point guard and it took Doc all year. I think we even had a couple posters here who thought that AB should be starting pt guard when Rondo was hurting.   Guess Doc wasn't the only one.
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    In Response to Re: Rivers judge of talent????:
    My opinion is only that, I think Doc only installed Bradley for tough defense on which ever guard was hurting us the most. Nothing more.
    Posted by DrBoogiebone


    Correct assessment.  When Bradley played, the team on the floor was less well defined than the first 7 or 8, so they were mostly "players": some guards, some forwards, but the subdesignations went out the window.
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    Bradley should have been moved.  He has no role on this team and his size and lack of shooting and ballhandling skills coupled with Rondo shooting problems are a real deficit for this team.  Trade him for what you can get Danny!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    Too small to be a "2" and we needed a  backup point guard.  That's where the mins were.  At the beginning of the year, it was Bradley or Von Wafer to back up Rondo, since Delonte was hurt.  I would try it if I were coaching.  Also agree Dr Boogiebone  that he was only in the game for defense ON a point guard, doesn't make him a point guard. 

    Yes, I think Doc knows what he is doing!!
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    I'm with Red.  Remember folks, We had Rondo and that was it.  West was injured and we had no other point guard.  Doc had to try to give the kid a bunch of chances.  In addition, we needed defensive pressure on the point guard of the other team to prevent the easy passes.  When rondo was out, who was going to provide that?  not Ray, Not Paul, not West (injured), not Wafer, etc.

    I believe Doc was wrestling with half a team all year.  I continue to say that no other team had as MANY injuries as we did (some had key players out, but not as many).  I thought it would be the older guys but it turned out to be the younger guys, as well.  Consequently, lots of people played out of position (like BBD at Center, Green at 4, Paul played point at times, etc).

    Completely agree with Red.
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????


     Looks like we have a couple posters who think they know more than Doc!!  Ugh!!
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    Last time I checked, Doc was focused on more important issues than Bradley last year. Using this as a gauge of Doc's Judgement is focusing on the minutia.

    Doc, in general, does not play rookies much unless he has to, because he does not normally trust them.

    My guess is that Bradley was a much more important cog in Israel.

     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    In Response to Re: Rivers judge of talent????:
    Too small to be a "2" and we needed a  backup point guard.  That's where the mins were.  At the beginning of the year, it was Bradley or Von Wafer to back up Rondo, since Delonte was hurt.  I would try it if I were coaching.  Also agree Dr Boogiebone  that he was only in the game for defense ON a point guard, doesn't make him a point guard.  Yes, I think Doc knows what he is doing!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11


    I also think Doc knows what he is doing.  I also think it takes him a long time sometimes to give up on something that doesn't work.  I don't think I heard Doc last year say he couldn't play point. It was more of a "be patient,  he didn't have camp" type of statements.  Like I said there were posters around here he said that AB should be starting at point instead of Rondo during the season.  I know it wasn't because they thought Pierce could play point.  We know Ray could't so I just assumed they mean AB. Not pointing at you Russ but reading a lot of these posts on this board there seem to be a LOT of people that THINK they know more than Doc and Danny! Yes there were a lot of people playing out of position last year because of different scenalios. Anyway I expect a lot more from AB this year. He definitely can play defense and Doc said he was knocking down shots. If thats the case then maybe Ray can get a little more rest during the season. Lets keep our fingers crossed.
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    AB was a disaster last year, didnt much matter where Doc played him.

    When it comes to people thinking they know more than Doc about certain things, well, whats wrong with that? Did Doc just get out of the Carnege Think Tank to coach the Celtics?

    Look around the NBA, some of these coaches/GMs cant be doing such a good job...their teams always stink and they make bad trades.

    We are all critical of our elected officials, our bosses, teachers, police, judges et al...all people supposedly superior in their respective fields...yet, a basketball coach is beyond reproach. Go figure

     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    In Response to Re: Rivers judge of talent????:
    AB was a disaster last year, didnt much matter where Doc played him. When it comes to people thinking they know more than Doc about certain things, well, whats wrong with that? Did Doc just get out of the Carnege Think Tank to coach the Celtics? Look around the NBA, some of these coaches/GMs cant be doing such a good job...their teams always stink and they make bad trades. We are all critical of our elected officials, our bosses, teachers, police, judges et al...all people supposedly superior in their respective fields...yet, a basketball coach is beyond reproach. Go figure
    Posted by Karllost


    You can criticize all you want - this is America.  But as someone who spent 20 years in the trenches before finally getting a HIGH SCHOOL Head Coaching job, I can tell you - 99% of the time, they do know more than we do!
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    In Response to Re: Rivers judge of talent????:
    In Response to Re: Rivers judge of talent???? : You can criticize all you want - this is America.  But as someone who spent 20 years in the trenches before finally getting a HIGH SCHOOL Head Coaching job, I can tell you - 99% of the time, they do know more than we do!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11


    I agree with you but knowing more doesnt make you have better judgement.

    I've also coached basketball and currently coach wrestling.  There are always instances when poor judgement comes into play no matter how "smart" one may be with regard to the subject matter.

    Coaching is much more than x's & o's...as Im sure youre aware.  ITs strategy, managing personalities, timing.... a feel for the game, intuition etc, etc, etc.

    Does Tom Brady know more about being an NFL QB than you or I?? Yet we both know throwing that pick last week ... or rather putting that pass in any sort of risk of an int was poor judgement... wasnt worth the risk of completing it if there was any chance it could get picked.  Yet, here was the expert doing what us armchair QB's knew was a huge mistake.

    Should we not criticize that play because Tom knows more, therefore he must be right?
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    Bradley was called a combo guard when they drafted him.  It's a nice way of saying he lacks the true skills of a 1 or a 2.  For the first time I saw Doc compare him to Delonte West, which to me has always been a good comparison, except West was a better shooter.  He may flourish with time, and I hope they can get him some minutes at the 2 and maybe some very limited minutes at the 1. 
     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    In Response to Rivers judge of talent????:
    In today's Herald it was reported that the coach of the Israeli team he played for took 2 days to realize that Avery's talent was not as a point guard but the 2 guard. But his experience in Israel revealed a lot. Although Bradley’s team, Hapoel Jerusalem, started him off at point guard, the experiment ended after two games   They moved him to the 2,” Rivers said. “They tried to play him at the point, but when you watched the games he was at the 2, that told you they saw the same thing. The two games where he played well over there, he was at the 2. He flourished with the change So that brings up the question..........why did Rivers try to play him at the point all year ............can Rivers really judge talent.......does Rivers get tunnel visioned and try to convert someone to something they are not..........can he see the forest through the trees............after all it only took the Isreali coach 2 games........then Rivers chimes in they saw the same thing.........argst
    Posted by damfuno



    hhhhmmmmmm.... why did Doc play his rookie as a point guard?   Because he is too small to be an effective 2 guard and they have been trying to trade Rondo........  what a difficult question....


     
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    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    Bradley cannot play the point or shooting guard.  He is someone we will package somewhere else or he will not be on the team next year.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    In Response to Re: Rivers judge of talent????:
    In Response to Re: Rivers judge of talent???? : I agree with you but knowing more doesnt make you have better judgement. I've also coached basketball and currently coach wrestling.  There are always instances when poor judgement comes into play no matter how "smart" one may be with regard to the subject matter. Coaching is much more than x's & o's...as Im sure youre aware.  ITs strategy, managing personalities, timing.... a feel for the game, intuition etc, etc, etc. Does Tom Brady know more about being an NFL QB than you or I?? Yet we both know throwing that pick last week ... or rather putting that pass in any sort of risk of an int was poor judgement... wasnt worth the risk of completing it if there was any chance it could get picked.  Yet, here was the expert doing what us armchair QB's knew was a huge mistake. Should we not criticize that play because Tom knows more, therefore he must be right?
    Posted by Karllost


    Everything you say is true, and I agree 100%........BUT, would you agree that the coach has more information than we do on the subject?  Brady thought the guy was open, the coach knew he wasn't.  Doc goes by what he sees at practice, and this is the reason Giddens, Hudson and Walker couldn't get on the floor.  Watch the Celtics after a timeout - usually, Doc designs a great play based on the opponent and the conditions.  He has, IMO, a great feel for the game.  We don't know, but perhaps some of his players don't have the same feel - like Gerald Green - the kid was given every opportunity in the world, but just couldn't get it done.  Should he still have played him?  Believe me, I criticize Doc all the time during the game, but never on who should be playing, because I don't know the injuries, personality conflicts.....and the like.  Usually, I would yell at him to sub for BBD, or to tell Rondo not to shoot, or something.....but I never criticize the sub patterns............I don't have all the facts!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptChris. Show CaptChris's posts

    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    Strange?  Danny screws up, and you blame Doc.  Ainge never went out an got a back-up Point Guard, so Doc is at fault.  We used Danielsx as a PG.  We used every excuse for a PG as a back-up.  It was awful.

    Now, we have Dooling (A Point Guard)  WOW!  Thanks Danny.

    If you could only find a true Center with a future? 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Rivers judge of talent????

    In Response to Re: Rivers judge of talent????:
    In Response to Re: Rivers judge of talent???? : Everything you say is true, and I agree 100%........BUT, would you agree that the coach has more information than we do on the subject?  Brady thought the guy was open, the coach knew he wasn't.  Doc goes by what he sees at practice, and this is the reason Giddens, Hudson and Walker couldn't get on the floor.  Watch the Celtics after a timeout - usually, Doc designs a great play based on the opponent and the conditions.  He has, IMO, a great feel for the game.  We don't know, but perhaps some of his players don't have the same feel - like Gerald Green - the kid was given every opportunity in the world, but just couldn't get it done.  Should he still have played him?  Believe me, I criticize Doc all the time during the game, but never on who should be playing, because I don't know the injuries, personality conflicts.....and the like.  Usually, I would yell at him to sub for BBD, or to tell Rondo not to shoot, or something.....but I never criticize the sub patterns............I don't have all the facts!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11


    Red, I understand your logic and cant disagree in general.

    However, think about this. With your rationale, Doc should never, ever be criticized by anyone for sub patterns (for ex), because hes in the best position to have all the facts and should know best. Meaning his judgment can never be questioned.  Heck, no coach should ever be fired either.. Now, youre a reasonable person, can you live with that?

    Cause if you can, I could introduce many, many identical situations that have failed miserably from business, government, sports etc. Nobody should be granted "God" status and we all should be able to voice our own opinions on the matter. If not, this discussion board should be burned at the stake. Who are we to suggest or criticze anything going on with the C's, right?

    Red, Im positive Doc will even admit making many mistakes with just about every situation..

    Good discussion, though. Valid points on both sides.


     
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