Rondo costly on defense

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    Rondo costly on defense

    Well after watching the Sports Center highlights last night, which pretty much showed the entire game, I can see all those who say Rondo is not a good defender.
     He could be......He definitely costs the team many points. I remember guys in high school used to ride the pine going for so many 'slap from behind steals'. Hey Rondo, try getting in front of your man and defending him by using your feet. Lazy defense for sure......
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TuukkainNet. Show TuukkainNet's posts

    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    Watch the game not the highlights....(the highlights don't show a reach...they show bad rotation on Joe Johnson at the end of the game but thats it.) +6 steals

    1st Team All-Defence 2011
    1st Team All-Defence 2010
    2nd Team All-Defence 2009

    Yup...he blows on D.

    Shut down D. Will
    Shut down C. Paul
    Shut down Linsanity
    Shut down Jennings
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]Watch the game not the highlights....(the highlights don't show a reach...they show bad rotation on Joe Johnson at the end of the game but thats it.) +6 steals 1st Team All-Defence 2011 1st Team All-Defence 2010 2nd Team All-Defence 2009 Yup...he blows on D. Shut down D. Will Shut down C. Paul Shut down Linsanity Shut down Jennings
    Posted by TuukkainNet[/QUOTE]

    +1
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    Rondo had 6 steals last night.  I am not sure if you are aware but that is considered good.
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    Rondo to all the vacillators like me is not the problem.  He has been along with Garnett and Bass the bright spot.  The guy is playing at a very high level.

    Even without a big man I know see Rondo is going to be alright.  His free throws and shooting have also improved.
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    You can't expect Rondo bring it every night like Keyon Dooling does.

     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]Rondo had 6 steals last night.  I am not sure if you are aware but that is considered good.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]
    I totally agree with you but I've always been one to feel that the counting of steals is an overrated stat.  For example, Zaza had 3 steals and all of them resulted merely from him literally standing in the right spot where the ball ended up in his hands.

    Two of Rondo's steals last night were from horrible passes that were deflected and I think one was Stackhouse (or Johnson) who got in the air and, out of desparation, threw the ball and Rondo just happened to be standing right there.  Rondo was literally standing there and the ball came right to him.  Honestly, that is not an indication of that player's defensive prowness.

    When I look at steals, I look at the man-on-man face up defense applied by AB and how he takes the ball from the guy or pokes it away.

    What Rondo does alot is freelance and he ends up with alot of steals by being in the right place and in passing lanes.  However, that same practice often is the cause of defensive breakdowns because his man or his responsibility is left unguarded (see Joe Johnson's 3-pointer last night as Rondo closed 2 seconds too slow on a cross court pass by Josh Smith).  In other words, Rondo plays alot of undisciplined defense and that results in high rewards but also in many breakdowns. 
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    Rondo haters....why even respond.
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense : I totally agree with you but I've always been one to feel that the counting of steals is an overrated stat.  For example, Zaza had 3 steals and all of them resulted merely from him literally standing in the right spot where the ball ended up in his hands. Two of Rondo's steals last night were from horrible passes that were deflected and I think one was Stackhouse (or Johnson) who got in the air and, out of desparation, threw the ball and Rondo just happened to be standing right there.  Rondo was literally standing there and the ball came right to him.  Honestly, that is not an indication of that player's defensive prowness. When I look at steals, I look at the man-on-man face up defense applied by AB and how he takes the ball from the guy or pokes it away. What Rondo does alot is freelance and he ends up with alot of steals by being in the right place and in passing lanes.  However, that same practice often is the cause of defensive breakdowns because his man or his responsibility is left unguarded (see Joe Johnson's 3-pointer last night as Rondo closed 2 seconds too slow on a cross court pass by Josh Smith).  In other words, Rondo plays alot of undisciplined defense and that results in high rewards but also in many breakdowns. 
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't argue with what you said in theory.

    With that said the Celtics won by three, Rondo had 6 steals, and the original post was regarding how Rondo went for the steal too much.  The league leader is Mike Conley with 2.5 a game.  So if I were going to criticise Rondo for going for steals too much I might have waited to pick a game where he didn't have more than twice as many as what the league leader averages.

    That would be like complaining that all someone did was go for the block on a night that the guy had 8 blocks.

     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    Snakeoil, you're right.  I don't really even criticize Rondo for that anymore.  It is what he does and I'm used to it.

    Last night (and every night for that matter), I can look at KG's defense and how he bends his knees and stays in front of Josh Smith not allowing him a step or anything.  And as a result, Smith doesn't get around KG and has to attempt a really difficult shot.  I then look at Rondo's defense and how he sort of stands straight up and "gives" his man that lane JUST SO he can attempt that swipe steal from behind.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but that's his thing.

    Bottom line is he was credited with 6 steals last night and, by whoever's classification of the steal, its a good night.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TuukkainNet. Show TuukkainNet's posts

    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    There are so many fair criticisms of Rondo...just funny when someone picks his D.

    Weaknesses
    1.  He can't shoot free throws
    2.  His jumper is inconsistent
    3.  Because of 1 and 2 he doesn't always get touches in crunch time even though he is our best ball handler.
    4. Attitude

    Strengths
    1.  Best distributer in the Association
    2.  Great Defender with shut down capability
    3.  Play Caller and situational awareness
    4.  Attitude

    Bill Simmon's had a great piece a few weeks ago ranking the top 50 in the NBA...this was his commentary on Rondo. (it's lengthy)
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    Here's the Link

    #15

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7666048/nba-trade-value-part-2

     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    Idiot.
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]There are so many fair criticisms of Rondo...just funny when someone picks his D. Weaknesses 1.  He can't shoot free throws 2.  His jumper is inconsistent 3.  Because of 1 and 2 he doesn't always get touches in crunch time even though he is our best ball handler. 4. Attitude Strengths 1.  Best distributer in the Association 2.  Great Defender with shut down capability 3.  Play Caller and situational awareness 4.  Attitude Bill Simmon's had a great piece a few weeks ago ranking the top 50 in the NBA...this was his commentary on Rondo. (it's lengthy)
    Posted by TuukkainNet[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately I don't get a chance to see all the games. I don't hate on Rondo as some posters suggest. Never wanted him traded. But he has to change his ways. He could be so great every night if he just adjusted his attitude and worked on his short range jumper. And since he does go for steal after steal he is bound to have nights where he has 6. But out of how many attempts? I just think he could work on his straight up d is all. Nothing more meant or stated.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense : I wouldn't argue with what you said in theory. With that said the Celtics won by three, Rondo had 6 steals, and the original post was regarding how Rondo went for the steal too much.  The league leader is Mike Conley with 2.5 a game.  So if I were going to criticise Rondo for going for steals too much I might have waited to pick a game where he didn't have more than twice as many as what the league leader averages. That would be like complaining that all someone did was go for the block on a night that the guy had 8 blocks.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    There are some holes in that theory. If I take 50 shots I am bound to make some. If I go for blocks all night long, I am bound to have some. If I constantly go for steals, I am bound to have some. When you are constantly slap-stealing from behind, it pretty much means: either you got beat and are lazy or you plan it. It just amazes me how many get ruffled by such comments and turn it into more than it is. Not saying you snake...
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]Rondo to all the vacillators like me is not the problem.  He has been along with Garnett and Bass the bright spot.  The guy is playing at a very high level. Even without a big man I know see Rondo is going to be alright.  His free throws and shooting have also improved.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    I don't see it.

    Dunno what time span you are referring to with the improved shooting.

    He's shooting more... and missing more.

    FT% and FG% both off for the season versus career.

    Pud
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense : There are some holes in that theory. If I take 50 shots I am bound to make some. If I go for blocks all night long, I am bound to have some. If I constantly go for steals, I am bound to have some. When you are constantly slap-stealing from behind, it pretty much means: either you got beat and are lazy or you plan it. It just amazes me how many get ruffled by such comments and turn it into more than it is. Not saying you snake...
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]

    Yeah I am not ruffled and you make good points.  Just saying when a guy has 6 steals it's hard to give him a hard time for going for the steal.  That's 6 extra possessions the Celtics got last night.  There are plenty of other games when he gets burned going for the steal and might only come up with one.  
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense : Yeah I am not ruffled and you make good points.  Just saying when a guy has 6 steals it's hard to give him a hard time for going for the steal.  That's 6 extra possessions the Celtics got last night.  There are plenty of other games when he gets burned going for the steal and might only come up with one.  
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    True about possessions. But can be costly when he misses in bunches as well. Puts extra pressure on the remaining D to cover for his misses(and that can hurt the older 3 for sure). Ruffled, never you snake. Thanks.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    snake, then the question becomes is it acceptable because last night he was credited for 6 steals?  I, for one, don't like to see Rondo gamble doing that because it fails more often than it works.  I'd much rather see Rondo bend his knees and stay in front of his man and avoid having that PG put pressure on the bigs rotating to step up.  But that's just me and it's regardless of the steals he gets from it.

    Rondo gets alot of credit for being an All-Defensive PG.  I honestly believe he's the 2nd best defensive PG on the Celtics.  Just my opinion.  Not hating on him either.  AB just seems to stay committed to defending more than R9R does.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]snake, then the question becomes is it acceptable because last night he was credited for 6 steals?  I, for one, don't like to see Rondo gamble doing that because it fails more often than it works.  I'd much rather see Rondo bend his knees and stay in front of his man and avoid having that PG put pressure on the bigs rotating to step up.  But that's just me and it's regardless of the steals he gets from it. Rondo gets alot of credit for being an All-Defensive PG.  I honestly believe he's the 2nd best defensive PG on the Celtics.  Just my opinion.  Not hating on him either.  AB just seems to stay committed to defending more than R9R does.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    I think Bradley is better on D.  I think Bradley could be one of the best defenders in the NBA if the rest of his game caught up and he could get the minutes.

      I think sometimes these things go game by game.  Rondo going for steals is just like the guy chucking them up at the three point line. Sometimes he is going to make 5 of 8 and you and I are cheering him on, other times he is going to to 1 of 8 and you and I are yelling at him to throw the ball inside.

    My whole point was really that to call him out in a game for going for steals when he had a bunch of them might not have been the best time to do so.  It would be sort of like waiting until that game that Peitrus hit five three pointers to point out that he has been shooting badly.

    Regardless he isn't going to stop.  That's his game.

     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    You point is well-taken....
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense : I think Bradley could be one of the best defenders in the NBA...Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately I think that Bradley is to small for being one of the best defenders in the league. He can only guard one position and not even against bigger players on this position. Therefor he is not able to rotate and/or help on defense.

    Rondo is capable of class A defense. But while great in times he is often lazy and inconsistent. Steals are not a single measure for great defense. Allen Iverson was great in stealing the ball but not a great defender at all. Kobe (who was a good defender in his career) was all defensive last year and was not even close to be the best defender on the SG position.
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]Well after watching the Sports Center highlights last night, which pretty much showed the entire game, I can see all those who say Rondo is not a good defender.  He could be......He definitely costs the team many points. I remember guys in high school used to ride the pine going for so many 'slap from behind steals'. Hey Rondo, try getting in front of your man and defending him by using your feet. Lazy defense for sure......
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]

    Its interesting how some people want to criticize Rondo for just about everything even after a 6 steal night.... how about you look at the rest of the team.... Ray cant guard anyone and often is out of the defensive rotation, Pierce pretty much the same thing.... but yet I dont see your post about them?....Coming soon?
     
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    Re: Rondo costly on defense

    In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo costly on defense : Rondo is not having a good year shooting the ball. His 45.5% FG is his lowest since his rookie year. His FTs have improved from last year, but at 60.6% it is still lower than his career average of 62.1%  
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]
    His free throws have improved lately.  Like in the last two weeks or so.

    He is not the problem for me anymore.  The big man you have wanted needs to be found or the Celtics deliberately have decided to throw in the towel on the season.    By the looks of the candidates they threw in the towel in Thursday.
     

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