The important question is not "are we better with or w/o rondo" (which is still up in the air), but "why were so many players underachieving and how can the team play better in the future with Rondo (assuming he doesn't get traded)"?
Rondo haters
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 11:54 AM EST
- basketbert
- Posts: 2127
- First: 11/22/2007
- Last: 6/18/2013
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 12:05 PM EST
- scubber
- Posts: 1184
- First: 3/16/2007
- Last: 6/16/2013
In response to puddinpuddin's comment:
In response to scubber's comment:
You can't tell me that it is nonsense or it is not in the mind of everyone including the Celtics brass themselves.
Not sure how how dialed in Cs management is about this matter. From the noise DA and doc are making, they support R9R 110%... w/o any misgivings... and try to minimize any sort of criticism, however veiled it is, or from whom the criticism comes.
I think they are wedded to Rondo and any sort of deviation from that position is barely tolerated.Considering how much of his reputation DA has staked on Rondo, it would take a lot to get him to admit a mistake and change directions at this point.
Don't hold your breath.
Pud
They are talking about it. Almost every day, they or the media bring up the subject and there are new interviews and sound bites from them addressing the issue. That is what I mean by it is in everybody's mind.There is zero chance they throw Rondo under the bus. If nothing else, it will lower Rondo trade value. Mistakes are made all the times, not recognizing it is a bigger problem, I don't think or at least I hope they are worried about covering their mistakes.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 12:46 PM EST
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
- Last: 5/16/2013
In response to puddinpuddin's comment:
RallC: Stay cool. The ladies jerking you around are completely harmless.
Pud
Listen to Mrs Creeper Rally.Stop letting me work you up into a drooling idiot.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 12:59 PM EST
- painter
- Posts: 938
- First: 5/22/2007
- Last: 6/18/2013
In response to scubber's comment:
There is zero chance they throw Rondo under the bus. If nothing else, it will lower Rondo trade value. Mistakes are made all the times, not recognizing it is a bigger problem, I don't think or at least I hope they are worried about covering their mistakes.
Mistakes have been made. JJ Johnson, Moore, Harangody, Hudson, Erdin, Giddens, and other draft night errors had led to the team as it now comprises. There hasn't been a dependable center to start or a deep threat shooter on the bench, and if the draft picks had been better (most are admittedly late 1st rounders) we would see a very different team.For the haters: I prefer to take a holistic look and not put to much blame on one player for what's happened since 2008 (Remember '07-'08? Of course you do.). Injuries, poor picks, and lower-level free agents haven't been able to support the core. It's not Rondo's fault or Doc's fault. Circumstances dictate outcomes. Injury-free and intact, 2009 would be in the books. The same can be said for 2010. The "what have you done for me lately" mindset obscures the facts we have. With the correct pieces, Rondo, highly respected around the league, would be one of five instead of one of three, and not one trying to run a debilitated team.
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This post has been removed.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 1:27 PM EST
- painter
- Posts: 938
- First: 5/22/2007
- Last: 6/18/2013
In response to Kirk6's comment:
If Rondo is so "highly respected around the league" trade him now.
How many injured players are traded at high value? An ACL injury means that no one knows his timetable of recovery or his effectiveness upon return. Who would bet the bank on those unknowns? As I wrote, "Circumstances dictate outcomes." -
Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 1:40 PM EST
- Eldunker
- Posts: 1356
- First: 7/21/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
Starting a post on a public board about Rondo... complaining about people who post about Rondo... but only if its not in a positive manner consistent with OPs opinion. LOL. Somebody get these forlorned Lovers a Rondo BigHead for their bedroom!
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 1:43 PM EST
- RallyC
- Posts: 1076
- First: 3/11/2010
- Last: 6/18/2013
In response to Eldunker's comment:
Starting a post on a public board about Rondo... complaining about people who post about Rondo... but only if its not in a positive manner consistent with OPs opinion. LOL. Somebody get these forlorned Lovers a Rondo BigHead for their bedroom!
Dunk, I think they all already have 'em and very, very sticky ones at that! How they can't see the truth amazes me. They are all in denial. Especially "OILY SNAKE"! HA! -
Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 1:49 PM EST
- RallyC
- Posts: 1076
- First: 3/11/2010
- Last: 6/18/2013
In response to scubber's comment:
In response to puddinpuddin's comment:
In response to scubber's comment:
You can't tell me that it is nonsense or it is not in the mind of everyone including the Celtics brass themselves.
Not sure how how dialed in Cs management is about this matter. From the noise DA and doc are making, they support R9R 110%... w/o any misgivings... and try to minimize any sort of criticism, however veiled it is, or from whom the criticism comes.
I think they are wedded to Rondo and any sort of deviation from that position is barely tolerated.Considering how much of his reputation DA has staked on Rondo, it would take a lot to get him to admit a mistake and change directions at this point.
Don't hold your breath.
Pud
They are talking about it. Almost every day, they or the media bring up the subject and there are new interviews and sound bites from them addressing the issue. That is what I mean by it is in everybody's mind.There is zero chance they throw Rondo under the bus. If nothing else, it will lower Rondo trade value. Mistakes are made all the times, not recognizing it is a bigger problem, I don't think or at least I hope they are worried about covering their mistakes.
Nice to see some have a clue here and don't just believe the hype! -
Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 1:58 PM EST
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
- Last: 5/16/2013
In response to RallyC's comment:
In response to Eldunker's comment:
Starting a post on a public board about Rondo... complaining about people who post about Rondo... but only if its not in a positive manner consistent with OPs opinion. LOL. Somebody get these forlorned Lovers a Rondo BigHead for their bedroom!
Dunk, I think they all already have 'em and very, very sticky ones at that! How they can't see the truth amazes me. They are all in denial. Especially "OILY SNAKE"! HA!
RallyC "HA Me say oily snake me funny. See his name is snake so I say oily snake HA HA"
Okay there simpleton.
One more try at breaking down my positon in a way your brain can understand.
I think Rondo is a top ten pg in the NBA. I dont think he is all that good.
I just like making fun of you and other people that think he is the whole problem with the team. Because he isn't.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 2:11 PM EST
- elvis-surfs
- Posts: 405
- First: 12/18/2004
- Last: 5/31/2013
In response to Bill-806's comment:
All good posts......... There seems to be two schools of thought here !!! The Celts are playing better without the "ALL WORLD AAU P G", that being said, we are only going to go as far as our front court/big men take us......... If Danny gets us a "big guy" or Fab melo fills the roll to help KG, then it should be interesting......... Bottom line, Rondos overall "style" is more about him, than TEAM !!!!! Not that I expect all of you to see it that way. The fans that buy the "JERSEYS" might not see it that way !!!
gotta agree with Bill on this one...Rondo blocks the whole team flow... -
Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 2:13 PM EST
- Eldunker
- Posts: 1356
- First: 7/21/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
In response to snakeoil123's comment:
In response to RallyC's comment:
In response to Eldunker's comment:
Starting a post on a public board about Rondo... complaining about people who post about Rondo... but only if its not in a positive manner consistent with OPs opinion. LOL. Somebody get these forlorned Lovers a Rondo BigHead for their bedroom!
Dunk, I think they all already have 'em and very, very sticky ones at that! How they can't see the truth amazes me. They are all in denial. Especially "OILY SNAKE"! HA!RallyC "HA Me say oily snake me funny. See his name is snake so I say oily snake HA HA"
Okay there simpleton.
One more try at breaking down my positon in a way your brain can understand.
I think Rondo is a top ten pg in the NBA. I dont think he is all that good.
I just like making fun of you and other people that think he is the whole problem with the team. Because he isn't.
Snake. I agree that Rondo is a top 10 PG. He is not a horrible player. He is a phenominal athlete with unique and gifted skills. My problem with Rondo is that he does not a good fit for the Celtics on offense or defense, and I don't believe he is condusive to positive chemistry and effective leadership.A good analogy would be today's game. Bledseo is a very good breakout PG, but he is not effective running the Clippers offense. They are losing badly without Paul running the offense and it has nothing to do with point production or statistics. Its how he affects the distribution of the ball and entire flow of the Clippers offense. I believe you will see him traded as a result.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 2:18 PM EST
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
- Last: 5/16/2013
In response to Eldunker's comment:
In response to snakeoil123's comment:
In response to RallyC's comment:
In response to Eldunker's comment:
Starting a post on a public board about Rondo... complaining about people who post about Rondo... but only if its not in a positive manner consistent with OPs opinion. LOL. Somebody get these forlorned Lovers a Rondo BigHead for their bedroom!
Dunk, I think they all already have 'em and very, very sticky ones at that! How they can't see the truth amazes me. They are all in denial. Especially "OILY SNAKE"! HA!RallyC "HA Me say oily snake me funny. See his name is snake so I say oily snake HA HA"
Okay there simpleton.
One more try at breaking down my positon in a way your brain can understand.
I think Rondo is a top ten pg in the NBA. I dont think he is all that good.
I just like making fun of you and other people that think he is the whole problem with the team. Because he isn't.
Snake. I agree that Rondo is a top 10 PG. He is not a horrible player. He is a phenominal athlete with unique and gifted skills. My problem with Rondo is that he does not a good fit for the Celtics on offense or defense, and I don't believe he is condusive to positive chemistry and effective leadership.A good analogy would be today's game. Bledseo is a very good breakout PG, but he is not effective running the Clippers offense. They are losing badly without Paul running the offense and it has nothing to do with point production or statistics. Its how he affects the distribution of the ball and entire flow of the Clippers offense. I believe you will see him traded as a result.
I don't disagree.what drives me crazy are the people that actually think that without rondo this team is going to go deep in the playoffs.
It isn't enough for people to disparage his game, they have to act like without Rondo this team is amazing and with him this team is horrible.
Drives me crazy.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 2:27 PM EST
- Eldunker
- Posts: 1356
- First: 7/21/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
I think they are an improved TEAM without Rondo. Bradley and Lee run a better offense and make a huge difference on defense.
The key indicator is in the balance of scoring over the last 4 games (including today). The ball is moving better and is being distributed better.
However, they will not be competitive in the playoffs because they don't have the nexessary rebounding and are not big enough. The loss of Sully only easperates the situation. Without a trade for a big, poor KG will be driven into the ground.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 2:31 PM EST
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
- Last: 5/16/2013
In response to Eldunker's comment:
I think they are an improved TEAM without Rondo. Bradley and Lee run a better offense and make a huge difference on defense.
The key indicator is in the balance of scoring over the last 4 games (including today). The ball is moving better and is being distributed better.
However, they will not be competitive in the playoffs because they don't have the nexessary rebounding and are not big enough. The loss of Sully only easperates the situation. Without a trade for a big, poor KG will be driven into the ground.
and that is a reasonable position. So far it certainly looks like an improvement but they go on a 6 game road trip soon, all against good teams.I get irritated because people act like if this team goes on a 6 game win streak without him then all is solved.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 2:32 PM EST
- Celtsfan4life
- Posts: 5845
- First: 3/12/2010
- Last: 6/17/2013
Snake. I agree that Rondo is a top 10 PG. He is not a horrible player. He is a phenominal athlete with unique and gifted skills. My problem with Rondo is that he does not a good fit for the Celtics on offense or defense, and I don't believe he is condusive to positive chemistry and effective leadership.A good analogy would be today's game. Bledseo is a very good breakout PG, but he is not effective running the Clippers offense. They are losing badly without Paul running the offense and it has nothing to do with point production or statistics. Its how he affects the distribution of the ball and entire flow of the Clippers offense. I believe you will see him traded as a result.
I don't disagree.what drives me crazy are the people that actually think that without rondo this team is going to go deep in the playoffs.
It isn't enough for people to disparage his game, they have to act like without Rondo this team is amazing and with him this team is horrible.
Drives me crazy.
[/QUOTE]
Not everyone is as negative as you lament, Snake. Many are very balanced and realize that while Rondo is a tremendous talent and will certainly make us better in the playoffs, he is also a hindrance to the offense that Doc wants to run. He PLEADS with Rondo to move the ball and he won't as he wants to dribble and control. You have to admit that the Celtics move the ball better without Rondo. We'll miss his rebounding and his drives, but not his matador d nor his holding the ball.In a halfcourt playoff game, Rondo will be irreplacable. But, in the meantime, we might just be a better team.
Try to be balanced and objective in your analysis and you will see some of this.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 2:52 PM EST
- elvis-surfs
- Posts: 405
- First: 12/18/2004
- Last: 5/31/2013
In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
Snake. I agree that Rondo is a top 10 PG. He is not a horrible player. He is a phenominal athlete with unique and gifted skills. My problem with Rondo is that he does not a good fit for the Celtics on offense or defense, and I don't believe he is condusive to positive chemistry and effective leadership.A good analogy would be today's game. Bledseo is a very good breakout PG, but he is not effective running the Clippers offense. They are losing badly without Paul running the offense and it has nothing to do with point production or statistics. Its how he affects the distribution of the ball and entire flow of the Clippers offense. I believe you will see him traded as a result.
I don't disagree.what drives me crazy are the people that actually think that without rondo this team is going to go deep in the playoffs.
It isn't enough for people to disparage his game, they have to act like without Rondo this team is amazing and with him this team is horrible.
Drives me crazy.
Not everyone is as negative as you lament, Snake. Many are very balanced and realize that while Rondo is a tremendous talent and will certainly make us better in the playoffs, he is also a hindrance to the offense that Doc wants to run. He PLEADS with Rondo to move the ball and he won't as he wants to dribble and control. You have to admit that the Celtics move the ball better without Rondo. We'll miss his rebounding and his drives, but not his matador d nor his holding the ball.In a halfcourt playoff game, Rondo will be irreplacable. But, in the meantime, we might just be a better team.
Try to be balanced and objective in your analysis and you will see some of this.
[/QUOTE]
well said... -
Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 2:56 PM EST
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
- Last: 5/16/2013
In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
Snake. I agree that Rondo is a top 10 PG. He is not a horrible player. He is a phenominal athlete with unique and gifted skills. My problem with Rondo is that he does not a good fit for the Celtics on offense or defense, and I don't believe he is condusive to positive chemistry and effective leadership.A good analogy would be today's game. Bledseo is a very good breakout PG, but he is not effective running the Clippers offense. They are losing badly without Paul running the offense and it has nothing to do with point production or statistics. Its how he affects the distribution of the ball and entire flow of the Clippers offense. I believe you will see him traded as a result.
I don't disagree.what drives me crazy are the people that actually think that without rondo this team is going to go deep in the playoffs.
It isn't enough for people to disparage his game, they have to act like without Rondo this team is amazing and with him this team is horrible.
Drives me crazy.
Not everyone is as negative as you lament, Snake. Many are very balanced and realize that while Rondo is a tremendous talent and will certainly make us better in the playoffs, he is also a hindrance to the offense that Doc wants to run. He PLEADS with Rondo to move the ball and he won't as he wants to dribble and control. You have to admit that the Celtics move the ball better without Rondo. We'll miss his rebounding and his drives, but not his matador d nor his holding the ball.In a halfcourt playoff game, Rondo will be irreplacable. But, in the meantime, we might just be a better team.
Try to be balanced and objective in your analysis and you will see some of this.
[/QUOTE]
I think I am balanced and objective. Again what bothers me are the people that act like the Celtics are now going to go 30 and 10 for the rest of the season simply beccause Rondo is gone.
the same people saying this now will be the same people freaking out when the Celtics lose 4 in a row later in the season.
Rondo is neither the answer or the problem. I have been saying that all along.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 2:57 PM EST
- CHEisCHE
- Posts: 3391
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 3/31/2013
The best thing was, barbosa did not leave. Among the guard s He has the most skills and exprienced.
He is not afraid to bring it to the paint and has average shooting ability. I think barbosa
Will emerge the best guard after lee, bradley and terry.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 3:05 PM EST
- Bill-806
- Posts: 14830
- First: 8/6/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
In response to CHEisCHE's comment:
What a shot @ the end of the 3rd !!!The best thing was, barbosa did not leave. Among the guard s He has the most skills and exprienced.
He is not afraid to bring it to the paint and has average shooting ability. I think barbosa
Will emerge the best guard after lee, bradley and terry.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 3:08 PM EST
- Eldunker
- Posts: 1356
- First: 7/21/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
In response to snakeoil123's comment:
In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
Snake. I agree that Rondo is a top 10 PG. He is not a horrible player. He is a phenominal athlete with unique and gifted skills. My problem with Rondo is that he does not a good fit for the Celtics on offense or defense, and I don't believe he is condusive to positive chemistry and effective leadership.A good analogy would be today's game. Bledseo is a very good breakout PG, but he is not effective running the Clippers offense. They are losing badly without Paul running the offense and it has nothing to do with point production or statistics. Its how he affects the distribution of the ball and entire flow of the Clippers offense. I believe you will see him traded as a result.
I don't disagree.what drives me crazy are the people that actually think that without rondo this team is going to go deep in the playoffs.
It isn't enough for people to disparage his game, they have to act like without Rondo this team is amazing and with him this team is horrible.
Drives me crazy.
Not everyone is as negative as you lament, Snake. Many are very balanced and realize that while Rondo is a tremendous talent and will certainly make us better in the playoffs, he is also a hindrance to the offense that Doc wants to run. He PLEADS with Rondo to move the ball and he won't as he wants to dribble and control. You have to admit that the Celtics move the ball better without Rondo. We'll miss his rebounding and his drives, but not his matador d nor his holding the ball.In a halfcourt playoff game, Rondo will be irreplacable. But, in the meantime, we might just be a better team.
Try to be balanced and objective in your analysis and you will see some of this.
I think I am balanced and objective. Again what bothers me are the people that act like the Celtics are now going to go 30 and 10 for the rest of the season simply beccause Rondo is gone.
the same people saying this now will be the same people freaking out when the Celtics lose 4 in a row later in the season.
Rondo is neither the answer or the problem. I have been saying that all along.
[/QUOTE]
and thats where we disagree. I do think Rondo is the problem. He hampers our offensive ball movement and team flow, and chmistry, and he is a liability on defense. You agreed earlier on these points. How can that not be a problem? -
Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 3:26 PM EST
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
- Last: 5/16/2013
In response to Eldunker's comment:
In response to snakeoil123's comment:
In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
Snake. I agree that Rondo is a top 10 PG. He is not a horrible player. He is a phenominal athlete with unique and gifted skills. My problem with Rondo is that he does not a good fit for the Celtics on offense or defense, and I don't believe he is condusive to positive chemistry and effective leadership.A good analogy would be today's game. Bledseo is a very good breakout PG, but he is not effective running the Clippers offense. They are losing badly without Paul running the offense and it has nothing to do with point production or statistics. Its how he affects the distribution of the ball and entire flow of the Clippers offense. I believe you will see him traded as a result.
I don't disagree.what drives me crazy are the people that actually think that without rondo this team is going to go deep in the playoffs.
It isn't enough for people to disparage his game, they have to act like without Rondo this team is amazing and with him this team is horrible.
Drives me crazy.
Not everyone is as negative as you lament, Snake. Many are very balanced and realize that while Rondo is a tremendous talent and will certainly make us better in the playoffs, he is also a hindrance to the offense that Doc wants to run. He PLEADS with Rondo to move the ball and he won't as he wants to dribble and control. You have to admit that the Celtics move the ball better without Rondo. We'll miss his rebounding and his drives, but not his matador d nor his holding the ball.In a halfcourt playoff game, Rondo will be irreplacable. But, in the meantime, we might just be a better team.
Try to be balanced and objective in your analysis and you will see some of this.
I think I am balanced and objective. Again what bothers me are the people that act like the Celtics are now going to go 30 and 10 for the rest of the season simply beccause Rondo is gone.
the same people saying this now will be the same people freaking out when the Celtics lose 4 in a row later in the season.
Rondo is neither the answer or the problem. I have been saying that all along.
and thats where we disagree. I do think Rondo is the problem. He hampers our offensive ball movement and team flow, and chmistry, and he is a liability on defense. You agreed earlier on these points. How can that not be a problem?[/QUOTE]
He can be "a" problem and not "the" problem.Get my drift? This team has a lot of problems. To me the lack of a post game and the inability to rebound are huge.
My irritation stems from the people that act like Rondo is "the" problem
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 3:42 PM EST
- kdp59
- Posts: 502
- First: 8/24/2005
- Last: 6/18/2013
4-0 baby!!
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 3:43 PM EST
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
- Last: 5/16/2013
case in point.
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Re: Rondo haters
posted at 2/3/2013 3:43 PM EST
- RallyC
- Posts: 1076
- First: 3/11/2010
- Last: 6/18/2013
In response to snakeoil123's comment:
In response to Eldunker's comment:
In response to snakeoil123's comment:
In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
Snake. I agree that Rondo is a top 10 PG. He is not a horrible player. He is a phenominal athlete with unique and gifted skills. My problem with Rondo is that he does not a good fit for the Celtics on offense or defense, and I don't believe he is condusive to positive chemistry and effective leadership.A good analogy would be today's game. Bledseo is a very good breakout PG, but he is not effective running the Clippers offense. They are losing badly without Paul running the offense and it has nothing to do with point production or statistics. Its how he affects the distribution of the ball and entire flow of the Clippers offense. I believe you will see him traded as a result.
I don't disagree.what drives me crazy are the people that actually think that without rondo this team is going to go deep in the playoffs.
It isn't enough for people to disparage his game, they have to act like without Rondo this team is amazing and with him this team is horrible.
Drives me crazy.
Not everyone is as negative as you lament, Snake. Many are very balanced and realize that while Rondo is a tremendous talent and will certainly make us better in the playoffs, he is also a hindrance to the offense that Doc wants to run. He PLEADS with Rondo to move the ball and he won't as he wants to dribble and control. You have to admit that the Celtics move the ball better without Rondo. We'll miss his rebounding and his drives, but not his matador d nor his holding the ball.In a halfcourt playoff game, Rondo will be irreplacable. But, in the meantime, we might just be a better team.
Try to be balanced and objective in your analysis and you will see some of this.
I think I am balanced and objective. Again what bothers me are the people that act like the Celtics are now going to go 30 and 10 for the rest of the season simply beccause Rondo is gone.
the same people saying this now will be the same people freaking out when the Celtics lose 4 in a row later in the season.
Rondo is neither the answer or the problem. I have been saying that all along.
and thats where we disagree. I do think Rondo is the problem. He hampers our offensive ball movement and team flow, and chmistry, and he is a liability on defense. You agreed earlier on these points. How can that not be a problem?
He can be "a" problem and not "the" problem.Get my drift? This team has a lot of problems. To me the lack of a post game and the inability to rebound are huge.
My irritation stems from the people that act like Rondo is "the" problem
[/QUOTE]
RONDO is NOT the problem......The fact that DOC and Danny gave him the responsibility to "lead" this team and then call his own plays in game time is the" problem." He is a great athlete, but can't carry the load they gave him. That load is back on PP and KG and JT and that is why its so different now. Rondo wasn't ready for the gravity of the entire load. Not his fault.