Rondo isn't an elite PG

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    If Ainge didn't sign Rondo to that team-friendly deal and he hit free agency, we'd all see how the rest of the league would covet what he brings to the table.  He's one of the premier play makers in the NBA, he's a true 1, not a shoot first PG.  We all know he can improve in some areas, but in other areas (rebounding, defense, assist/TO ratio) he is at the top of the list.  He is an adept scorer and when the outside shot comes it will only make him that much better.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Let's not forget efficiency rating (my favorite stat)

    In Response to Let's not forget efficiency rating (my favorite stat):
    Rondo is sixth among guards: http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=5&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD= Steve Nash, Deron Williams and Chris Paul are all ahead of him, which doesn't mean Rondo isn't part of the elite; rather it means he ranks AMONG the elite. BTW, toss out Kobe and D Wade as they are swingmen and garner their high rating based more on scoring output.  That means the best point guards are as follows: 1) Chris Paul (a master, credit where due) 2) Deron Williams (toughness and intelligence personified, all around game) 3) Steve Nash (two-time MVP) and 4) Rajon Rondo Jason Kidd, Tony Parker, Russel Westbrook, Jameer Nelson, Mo Williams, the kid from Milwaukee, Devin Harris etc, don't even enter the conversation. I can teach anyone on this board to shoot 75% stationary at 15 feet.  I'm quite sure Rajon Rondo and his coaches will figure it out.  And, for the last time, I promise, Rondo doesn't need to MAKE open jumpers, he needs to TAKE open jumpers.  Shoot em enough and they will fall in the general area of that percentage he already shoots (which is best among guards).  'Pullup' isn't even in Rondo's vocabulary yet.  So RELAX.  Rondo is an assassin; right now he is more comfortable killing opponents up close with a knife.  Soon enough he will also be killing them from a distance with a rifle.  I seem to remember another Celtics point guard who wasn't the best pure jump shooter whose numer 3 hangs from the rafters.  Who would you prefer take the final shot in a playoff game, DJ or Jason Kidd?
    Posted by shines01


    Anyone here old enough to remember Deputy Barney Fife.

    Now Barney was an assassin too. (And he had a pistol with one bullet.)

    barney_fife.jpg

    Cold blooded!

    Pud
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    Unlike Deputy Fife Rajon has way more than one bullet in his gun.  However the one bullet character assasination puts some posters in the same category as Barney.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsGhost. Show RedsGhost's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    Not sure...did this report originate from ESPN?? From MSNBC? ABC Sports? CBS Sports? NBA.com?
    Ohhhhhh wait....some LA run internet site called Bleacher report, and to think, I thought the report was supposed to be serious not some hack from LA running a site from his Momma's basement.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsGhost. Show RedsGhost's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    Rather than Barney Fife with one bullet, I equate Rondo instead to a group of sniper Navymen who 1) all 3 snipers only needed ONE bullet/shot 2) at night 3) from a rolling unstationary base to a 4) heaving, rolling target that NEEDED 5) all three head shots on 6) the FIRST shot. In other words it's much easier to take a shot, adjust, take another shot, adjust etc. than it is to do it with only one try and no chance for adjustments.
    But I'm OK with Rondo only needing one head shot as any ASSASSIN should be.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    Pud,
    You have got  to be kidding with your Barney Fife analogy.  Rondo can pass, steal the ball, rebound on both  ends, and score. That's a lot more than one bullet.  I might add he steals the ball, rebounds better, and scores inside like no other person at his position.  We could intangibles but anyone not blind can see that.

    The idea that the Lakers laid off him because he would not shoot is not without merit.  But who in that championship series won two games by himself.  Only one person Rondo.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    Rondo is hardly an assassin. He is as close to an anti-assassin as one can get.

    Now DJ was an assassin. Utterly cold-blooded and fearless in the clutch. DJ wanted the ball and knew what to do with it!

    DJ was Money! 

    The poster who tried to draw a comparison between DJ and Rondo is completely off base... and insulting to the memory of  DJ.

    When the game is on the line, Rondo resembles Deputy Fife much more than he does the venerable Dennis  Johnson.

    We miss you, DJ! God love you!

    Pud
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shines01. Show shines01's posts

    no

    I did not make a comparison between DJ and Rondo; kindly re-read my post. 

    What I said was Rondo is an assassin, and he is.  He just doesnt use the shot as a weapon YET.

    I said DJ wasnt the greatest shooter in the world and thats well established...in fact, if you want to argue it we can get the stats.  Rondo is easily as cold blooded as DJ.  Just not quite as reliable, YET.  My question about comparison was between JASON KIDD and RAJON RONDO.

    I'm sure DJ, class that he was, would be happy to have Rondo compared to him.  Oh yeah, let's not forget the Magic Johnson endorsement and that of assassin of assassins, Isiah Thomas.  We forget because he sucked so bad as a coach how good he was as a player and he, like Magic, would take Rondo any day of the week on his squad.

    Nuff
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    I definitely miss DJ he was an all-world defender and great passer.  I bet he'd love Rondo.  Rondo would be a quicker version of DJ if he could shoot FTs consistantly.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mem17. Show mem17's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    I love that picture of Barney Fife. I am old enough to remember the Andy Griffith Show when it was made, at least the last few years of it. Fortunately The Andy Griffith Show is on TV land everyday. It's my alltime favorite show, followed by Bonanza and Gunsmoke.
       
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrycole. Show jerrycole's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    Neither Steve Nash nor Deron Williams is a better PG than Rondo.  The stats for Nash and illiams are significantly affected by the fact that their teams play a more uptempo style than the Celtics.  Therefore, the small advantage they have over Rondo in the efficiency stats doesn't equate to their being better.

    In addition, Nash is a terrible defender - so regardless of what his efficiency ranking is, it's not a true indication of his standing among PGs.  

    DWilliams is not a terrible defender - he's just not as good a defender as Rondo.  Remember that Rondo was selected by the NBA coaches to the first team All-NBA Defensive Team.  The difference between them in that half of the game would vault Rondo over DWilliams even if the efficiency stats were a valid indication of their relative standings (which, per the above paragraph on tempo, they are not).

    Rondo is the second best PG in the NBA - but only if CPaul returns from his injury at the same level that he was before the injury.  That's a big "if".  If CPaul isn't 100% of what he was, Rondo is the best PG in the NBA, regardless of his deficiencies.  Not the best shooter - just the best PG.

    (I used to think that only kids who hadn't reached puberty measured basketball players only by how many points they scored.  It appears I was wrong, as several posters here seem to be afflicted by the same lack of judgment.) 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from maryngary. Show maryngary's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    Only the blind could not see Tony Allen's failures or Rondo's man guarding everyone except Rondo.  To be Elite your offense must be respected, Rondo keep working on your shot, it is your problem.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Waynestarr. Show Waynestarr's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    In Response to Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG:
    Only the blind could not see Tony Allen's failures or Rondo's man guarding everyone except Rondo.  To be Elite your offense must be respected, Rondo keep working on your shot, it is your problem.
    Posted by maryngary


    EXACTLY.


    Rajon Rondo the BEST PG in the league??? Pure delusion.


    I like Rondo, he has his shortcomings, but the best? Come on now.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    To suggest that Rondo at this point in his career is not  an assassin like DJ is a joke.  Rondo has performed near miracle plays in key games all last season. He so clutch is not funny.  Outside jumpers don't make an assassin alone.  Stealing the ball when your team may lose in the late stages of a game as he did several times just in this year's playoffs is legendary stuff and the beginning of greatness..


    How about in Miami first game after the All-Star break the Celtics are down in Miami by two with one second left.  Pierce inbounds the ball and Rondo makes astounding catch and dunk to tie. They go to win in overtime.  Name me a point guard that makes that play in the NBA. There is only one. Rondo at this early stage in his career has  the makings of a legend if he does not get injured. 

    So please get off it Pud and give Rondo his due.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    In Response to Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG:
    To suggest that Rondo at this point in his career is not  an assassin like DJ is a joke.  Rondo has performed near miracle plays in key games all last season. He so clutch is not funny.  Outside jumpers don't make an assassin alone.  Stealing the ball when your team may lose in the late stages of a game as he did several times just in this year's playoffs is legendary stuff and the beginning of greatness.. How about in Miami first game after the All-Star break the Celtics are down in Miami by two with one second left.  Pierce inbounds the ball and Rondo makes astounding catch and dunk to tie. They go to win in overtime.  Name me a point guard that makes that play in the NBA. There is only one. Rondo at this early stage in his career has  the makings of a legend if he does not get injured.  So please get off it Pud and give Rondo his due.
    Posted by concord27


    Tell the Laker Defense to give Rondo his due.

    Tell the Laker Defense to guard our "wannabe assassin" when the game is on the line.

    They completely disrespected him and young Rondo had no answer.

    Why should I (or anyone else) give him any more respect than the competition did when they exposed him as Barney Fife in uniform?

    Respect because he wears Celtic green ?

    Because he is some sort of "special" player that deserves and needs our "special" consideration? Not from me.

    Besides, he's got legions of admirers who fawn over him like he's some sort of "Special Olympics" success story. 

    Tell the Lakers to give him at least token defensive interest so that his feelings or confidence don't take such a hit.

    Pud
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosportfan. Show bosportfan's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    In Response to Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG:
    In Response to Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG : Tell the Laker Defense to give Rondo his due. Tell the Laker Defense to guard our "wannabe assassin" when the game is on the line. They completely disrespected him and young Rondo had no answer. Why should I (or anyone else) give him any more respect than the competition did when they exposed him as Barney Fife in uniform? Respect because he wears Celtic green ? Because he is some sort of "special" player that deserves and needs our "special" consideration? Not from me. Besides, he's got legions of admirers who fawn over him like he's some sort of "Special Olympics" success story.  Tell the Lakers to give him at least token defensive interest so that his feelings or confidence don't take such a hit. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin


    Dear Mrs Pudwhacker tell that to magic he thinks quite differently then you do which is not very suprising. And if you see the teenage rapist aka kobe tell her we all said hi so her feelings and confidence dont take a hit.Cool
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrycole. Show jerrycole's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    I should have known.

    Lesson learned: ALWAYS check the facts when someone makes an assertion with no facts to back him up.

    Pud has been pedalling his theory that the Lakers have significantly reduced Rondo's offensive effectiveness.  Let's look at the FACTS.

    R's regular season averages   R against the Lakers in this year's playoffs

    points.............13.7............................13.6
    reb..................4.4..............................6.3
    asst.................9.8..............................7.6

    turnovers..........3.0..............................2.7

    OK, let's add the points, rebounds and assists and then subtract turnovers.   What to we get?   Season average: 24.9........average against Lakers: 24.8

    And there you have it.  The results of the Lakers' putting a first team All-NBA defender on Rondo and playing off of him: one tenth of a point per game

    They reduced Rondo's assists, but gave that right back in offensive rebounds and reduced turnovers.

    So remember what we've learned today, kids:  ALWAYS LOOK UP THE FACTS!

    p.s. In game two of the series against the Lakers, Rondo had a triple double.  Forgotten that, Pud?  Oh, and in game seven, Rondo came within two rebounds of a triple double!  Great defense by LA and Kobe once again.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    Pud,
    The reality of the seventh game and the fourth quarter is that PP  hogged the ball and should have let Rondo do his thing.  Doc screamed in the huddle "we've got to play together in the last time outs."  He was talking to PP who was going into iso's with Artest that he could not get out of.  The story of that last half of the fourth quarter was not about  Rondo being laid off but Pierce demanding the ball and destroying the sputtering offense in the last minutes.  Rondo should have taken the ball to the basket and gone to the line or shot  the open shots. He would have made some and missed some   but it would have opened things up.  Unfortunately the hierarchy of the team prevented that. It won't happen this year if in that situation.  The proof will be in the pudding pud, at the end of the season and you will be amazed at what Rondo does this year if he avoids injury.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    In Response to Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG:
    Pud, The reality of the seventh game and the fourth quarter is that PP  hogged the ball and should have let Rondo do his thing.  Doc screamed in the huddle "we've got to play together in the last time outs."  He was talking to PP who was going into iso's with Artest that he could not get out of.  The story of that last half of the fourth quarter was not about  Rondo being laid off but Pierce demanding the ball and destroying the sputtering offense in the last minutes.  Rondo should have taken the ball to the basket and gone to the line or shot  the open shots. He would have made some and missed some   but it would have opened things up.  Unfortunately the hierarchy of the team prevented that. It won't happen this year if in that situation.  The proof will be in the pudding pud, at the end of the season and you will be amazed at what Rondo does this year if he avoids injury.
    Posted by concord27


    CPP has zero confidence in Rondo's half court game... and for good reason. Few others do either.

    Besides, Rondo does not want the ball. At that time of the game, Rondo is little more than a boy struggling to play a man's game... and he gets near zero respect from the op and from his own teammates.

    Pud
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wfdog. Show wfdog's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    I don't think 'unique necessarily means 'elite'...not yet anyway.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    Pud we will see this coming season.  Rondo is the best player on the Celtics.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    In Response to Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG:
    Pud we will see this coming season.  Rondo is the best player on the Celtics.
    Posted by concord27


    I would love to be dead wrong and to gladly have to eat my words. You need to be able to hang your hat on something a bit more substantial than hopeful (prayerful) expectations. I'm hanging my hat on past and current behavior.

    That young Rondo is farting away time trying out for the USA Team and improving his "brand" ....  instead of resting after a long and grinding season... and dedicating himself to self-improvement  thru a hard supervised work out regimen  is not a hopeful sign. 

    Pud
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    In this I agree with you.   I wish  he was not there. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from voguerp. Show voguerp's posts

    Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG

    In Response to Re: Rondo isn't an elite PG:
    First team on the All-NBA Defensive team.  Top five in assists.  Highest shooting percentage of any guard in the NBA.  Nearly 14 points per game on a team whose leading scorer averaged 18.  Led the league in steals by a wide margin.  More playoff triple doubles in the last two years than any other player.  Tied for third (with Deron Williams) among PGs in total production, behind Chris Paul and Steve Nash (who plays no defense). When all facets of the game are taken into account, there is simply no PG in the league who outranks Rondo except Chris Paul, who is coming off what could be a career-altering injury. The silliest argument against Rondo is that his assists total should be discounted because he is playing with "three future Hall of Famers".  This ignores the fact that none of those three played at anywhere near a Hall of Fame level in the last two years.  It also overlooks the fact that Rondo's amazing and unmatched performance in the 2009 playoffs occurred entirely without one of the Big Three and with the other two taking turns being ineffective. By the way, the belief that the Lakers showed how easily Rondo can be defended overlooks an extremely important fact.  The guy they picked to guard Rondo is on the first team of the All-NBA Defensive Team.  No other team can throw an equivalent defensive player at Rondo (since Rondo himself is the other guard on the first team All-NBA Defensive team).  A second by the way: there are several NBA point guards (Collison being one of them) whose OVERALL shooting percentage is worse than Rondo's OUTSIDE shooting percentage (which is over 40%).  You could look it up. And finally, Rondo could easily be a twenty-points per game scorer.  All he would have to do is take a few more shots per game (at the expense of his assists total, of course).  But that is not what the team needs or what Doc wants.  True fans should know that it is not a good thing for team coherence or morale for its PG to take the most shots and score the most points.  A PG's most important offensive task is to make his teammates better - and that is something that Rondo does very well, indeed. 
    Posted by jerrycole



    Here, here JerryCole...awesome post! No arguments!
     

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