Rondo lovers please answer this...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Rondo lovers please answer this...

    Calm down and put your blind man-love for Rondo aside for a second... and just confirm or refute the following:

    Rondo is an exceptional PG and one of the best overall in the NBA. 
    He is the best, or near the best among active PGs in his defensive skills, assists,  general ball handling, ability to get to the hoop and provide energy to the team.

    But, sometimes, in fact rarely, he plays inconsistently and just doesn't mentally show up, but this is typical of many players.   
     
    However, he is the worst PG in the league in free throws accuracy and
    he is generally either not confident to shoot an open jump shot beyond 12 feet or unwilling to do so which generally allows the opposing teams to layoff off and block the middle or double team another Cetlic.

    If I were to do a similiar assessment with say Chris Paul or Rose, and a few others, it would go someting like this:

    Chris Paul is the best, or one of the best, PGs in the NBA, in his defensive skills, assists, ball handling, ability to get to the hoop, providing energy to the team, free throw accuracy, his ability to hit an open jumper and even a contested jumper beyond 12 feet. 

    I don't hate Rondo. All I am saying that he is not a complete PG compared to the best and he has certain deficiencies that are a liability to the Celtics.
     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    Rondo is not perfect.  He doesn't shoot FT's well and he's not always confident in his jumper....so when teams sag off and double team others, he's uncomfortable....missing the jumper badly at times.

    That said, against all of the other PG's save Steve Nash, he's the best passer in the league and controls the game to get his guys THEIR shots in the positions they like.  He's also a good defender when focused on defense.  Great at steals, as well.

    So, some other PGs are better at some things while Rondo's better at other things.  When you're playing with 4 hall of famers, its better to be a passing point guard like Rondo.  He's what the Celts need.   Other PG's would not be as good for this team.  

    For a team like Miami, Rondo would be TERRIBLE.  They would never use his strengths.  For a team like Celts, San Antonio, Knicks, Clippers, Orlando....ROndo is a great PG.

    So, I hope you see....there's a balanced view.  He has certain liabilities.....and he has certain assets that are of GREAT help to the Celts.....more than some other PGs.  I contend that only Chris Paul would be as good or better for us.  DWill doesn't pass as well most of the time.  Westbrook is a shoot first PG.  Rose is a shoot first PG.  We need a pass first guy who plays with his teammates.  That's Rondo.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from genaro008. Show genaro008's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    What he lacks, his other skills fit into this system. If he was somewhere else he may not be able to hiide his flaws as well. His strengths fit the Celtics style of play. Where you have 3 exceptional shooters around him and a healthy Shaq to finish arounf the rim. When shaq was healhty Rondo's numbers were out of this world. When Shaq was healthy we were 14 1  and he was around 14 assists a game.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    I agree with both responses...
    by the way Rondo also has more turnovers than all other PGs with 3.8 per game, last in PPG among the top PGs, last in FT and last in 3PT% too... just sayin.

    but I agree, he fits well with the Cetlics (for now) and is first in assists, steals and near the top in rebounds and FG%, but I don't think its relevant since Rondos are all layups or open 10 footers by defensive choice.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shamrock1000. Show shamrock1000's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    Rondo is not perfect.  He doesn't shoot FT's well and he's not always confident in his jumper....so when teams sag off and double team others, he's uncomfortable....missing the jumper badly at times. That said, against all of the other PG's save Steve Nash, he's the best passer in the league and controls the game to get his guys THEIR shots in the positions they like.  He's also a good defender when focused on defense.  Great at steals, as well. So, some other PGs are better at some things while Rondo's better at other things.  When you're playing with 4 hall of famers, its better to be a passing point guard like Rondo.  He's what the Celts need.   Other PG's would not be as good for this team.   For a team like Miami, Rondo would be TERRIBLE.  They would never use his strengths.  For a team like Celts, San Antonio, Knicks, Clippers, Orlando....ROndo is a great PG. So, I hope you see....there's a balanced view.  He has certain liabilities.....and he has certain assets that are of GREAT help to the Celts.....more than some other PGs.  I contend that only Chris Paul would be as good or better for us.  DWill doesn't pass as well most of the time.  Westbrook is a shoot first PG.  Rose is a shoot first PG.  We need a pass first guy who plays with his teammates.  That's Rondo.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life


    Well said Celticsfanforlife. I would also add that the point guard is the generally the smallest guy on the court and the furthest from the basket - simple math anf physics tells you that the point guard position is the least efficient scoring position.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    and Rondo is the least efficient scorer among those less efficient scorers
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    Rondo's jump shooting is coming around (painfully slow yes, but it is comoing). But that's why they had to get rid of Perk. Can't have two black holes in the starting lineup...Don't forget Rondo is a great rebounder, better than all the other point guards, fast as heck and a great ballhandler.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from OC-CeltsFan. Show OC-CeltsFan's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    Enough has been said about his inability to shoot.  I agree that he makes up for it in other ways. 
    My biggest issue is his defense, where I think he is way overrated.  He doesn't keep hims man in front of him and is usually lazy fighting through screens.  The fact that he's getting a lot of steals means that he's gambling and not locking down on his man.  I honestly think that he would be exposed on most teams.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    Enough has been said about his inability to shoot.  I agree that he makes up for it in other ways.  My biggest issue is his defense, where I think he is way overrated.  He doesn't keep hims man in front of him and is usually lazy fighting through screens.  The fact that he's getting a lot of steals means that he's gambling and not locking down on his man.  I honestly think that he would be exposed on most teams.
    Posted by OC-CeltsFan



    That's true most of the time.  But, I've also seen him when he's focused on keeping his man in front of him and he can do it better when focused.  He's often too lazy on D.  I am hoping that in the playoffs when he's facing an important PG, he'll be more focused.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    It's funny that all people look at is what happens on offense.  (With exceptions, of course.) It's also funny when internet jocks think their judgment of things like Rondo's defense is so much better than the judgment of the NBA coaches.  Those 30 coaches voted Rondo to the first team of the NBA's All-Defensive Team. So while it's fair to say that Rondo has some deficiencies in one half of the game of basketball, it paints a false picture to then ignore the fact that he is considered to be at the very top of the league in the other half of the game.
    Posted by jerrycole


    Bam
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    Can someone explain to me what happened at the end of the game? Why did Rondo draw a foul while shooting a three with less than a second left? It seemed like he was angry at the Suns over something, perhaps some leftover animus from the technical foul assesed against Garnett seconds earlier.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrycole. Show jerrycole's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    Eldunker, you seem to have dismissed ONE HALF OF THE GAME OF BASKETBALL in two words.  Defense isn't just one in a list of basketball skills - it is more important than any three, four, five, etc. set of offensive skills.

    You mentioned Chris Paul AND Derrick Rose, but didn't make the Rose comparison.  Let me do it for you:  Rose is the best or near the best PGs in the league in scoring,  getting to the rim, providing energy, FT shooting, and ability to hit an open or contested jumper.  He is nowhere near the top in assists, rebounds or ANY DEFENSIVE skill.

    You are flat out wrong in saying that Rondo is the least efficient scorer, no doubt because you don't know what "efficient scorer" means.  In fact, Rondo is one of the top four PGs in scoring efficiency.  He shoots 51% from the floor.  THAT is efficiency.  You also forgot to mention that Rondo is fine at hitting open jumpers, hence his 45% shooting.  You are also wrong in attributing his open looks merely to defensive choice.  Some of the reasons he gets so many open looks is that he uses picks well, ball fakes well, and uses his quickness to get separation from defenders, many of whom try to stay reasonably close to him so he won't easily pick their team apart with his passing.

    Other than that, you are OK.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    Ohhh.  I see.  He regularly gets wide open looks at 12 footers, which he seldom shoots, because he fakes well and uses picks.  Thats actually very funny.  No its delerious.  and you fail to mention he is leading all PGs in turnovers and last in free throws and 3 point %.  What is your point?  Mine was he is very good at some things and very bad at others.  You and others seem to think he is perfect and make the same excuses for his inadequacies.       

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamezHill24. Show JamezHill24's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    all i have is this question. Rondo is one of the fastest pg in the NBA. period. might be the fastest. so when teams play up on him, such as GS did last week, he blows by them with ease. you CANT do it. so would you rather him blow past for an easy layup? or a jumpshot. you tell me one pg in the nba who shoots a better jumpshot then layup and ill leave it alone. 

    also, why does everyone want Rondo to shoot so much? ill be the first to admit that theres some open looks that i think he should definitly take, but judging by his 45% jumper percentage, its not like he CANT make it if he wants to. so if he wants to pass to hall of famers, let him pass to hall of famers. if you watch Lebron, there is some open shots that he passes up now that he def wouldnt have if he was in cleveland. why? bc there is better options. and i dont think anyone will argue that getting a shot for paul, ray and kg is a better option. they are hall of famers. period. wen we get into the playoffs, i cant wait to see the "rondo is a liability" posts dissapear, just like they do EVERY PLAYOFF.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneNation. Show OneNation's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    Rondo is the engine of this team. Most of the time the Celts are riding in a Rolls Royce. Just look at the team record. Rondo is a huge part of that. I'll go with the team concept and say Rondo makes the Celts a better team.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from teh-n00b. Show teh-n00b's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    anyone watch superstar MVP best point guard in the league derrick rose last night?

    1-11 FG and 6 TO in the second half (5/21 FG overall), as well as getting abused on defense and dunked on, in a loss
     
    can anyone remember the last time rondo played that badly?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    anyone watch superstar MVP best point guard in the league derrick rose last night? 1-11 FG and 6 TO in the second half (5/21 FG overall), as well as getting abused on defense and dunked on, in a loss   can anyone remember the last time rondo played that badly?
    Posted by teh-n00b


    A rare bad game by Rose but remember he carries the burden on the Bulls to score points every night and teams have to plan to defend him first, above any other Bull.


    To answer your question, YES. Rondo has had games wheres he made as many TO's and more.  Hes had bad shooting nights too. I doubt there are very many all stars who havent had bad nights like that.  Take Ray for ex, 0-11 was it in the playoffs?

    Not sure I understand your point.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    So Rondo haters its been 2 years since you have called for his head. Year in and out you call this guy out when he is literally the face of this team now and going forward. 

    He is the best passer in the game no arguement, scoring wise he sacrifice's some of his game, and his jumper has just improved game by game. This guy is attempting late game jumpers with no one asking why and its because hes a young talent that needs to be used. 

    Hes one of the best in the game and everyone has nights like that. Tom Brady has them and we don't chew out the guy like this. Rondo is human this isn't a video game where you get a perfect Rondo. 

    He just outplayed Nash by leaps and bounds and outplays most PGs every night. If the guy was injured you would be crying for him to get back to help this team.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shamrock1000. Show shamrock1000's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    and Rondo is the least efficient scorer among those less efficient scorers
    Posted by Eldunker


    good line, but the point is that its tough to win it all with  a scoring pg. also, rondo's shooting % is high for a pg, so is most definitely not the least efficient scorer from the pg position. but obviously you've heard my argument and i've heard yours. the controvesry will continue.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    Calm down and put your blind man-love for Rondo aside for a second... and just confirm or refute the following: Rondo is an exceptional PG and one of the best overall in the NBA.  He is the best, or near the best among active PGs in his defensive skills, assists,  general ball handling, ability to get to the hoop and provide energy to the team. But, sometimes, in fact rarely, he plays inconsistently and just doesn't mentally show up, but this is typical of many players.      However, he is the worst PG in the league in free throws accuracy and he is generally either not confident to shoot an open jump shot beyond 12 feet or unwilling to do so which generally allows the opposing teams to layoff off and block the middle or double team another Cetlic. If I were to do a similiar assessment with say Chris Paul or Rose, and a few others, it would go someting like this: Chris Paul is the best, or one of the best, PGs in the NBA, in his defensive skills, assists, ball handling, ability to get to the hoop, providing energy to the team, free throw accuracy, his ability to hit an open jumper and even a contested jumper beyond 12 feet.  I don't hate Rondo. All I am saying that he is not a complete PG compared to the best and he has certain deficiencies that are a liability to the Celtics.  
    Posted by Eldunker


    Why even go there. I said 5 years ago that CP dominates the ball too much and takes his team to the stand and watch mode too often. That almost never happens with Rondo and is the "winning" advantage he has over Paul.

    You guys who want him to shoot jump shots all the time better watch out because it appears to me he is shooting them and making them right now.

    What are you going to complain about then.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from shamrock1000. Show shamrock1000's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    In Response to Rondo lovers please answer this... : Why even go there. I said 5 years ago that CP dominates the ball too much and takes his team to the stand and watch mode too often. That almost never happens with Rondo and is the "winning" advantage he has over Paul. You guys who want him to shoot jump shots all the time better watch out because it appears to me he is shooting them and making them right now. What are you going to complain about then.
    Posted by gtown07


    exactly gtown, that's what i was trying to say. when your pg (the main ball handler) is also the main scorer, nobody else touches the ball and thus fewer easy high percentage shots. its no coinicidence the celtics shoot such a high percentage.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jhol. Show jhol's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    Somebody else said it best..."He is what the Celtics need"
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this... : exactly gtown, that's what i was trying to say. when your pg (the main ball handler) is also the main scorer, nobody else touches the ball and thus fewer easy high percentage shots. its no coinicidence the celtics shoot such a high percentage.
    Posted by shamrock1000


    If you are going to "try" to make a point, accuracy helps.
    Chis Paul isn't the main scorer on the Hornets. Paul averages almost 10 assists per game, amoung the top 4 in the league. The Hornets have a very balanced scoring attack. ie, everyone touches the ball, with Paul only averaing about 15 PPG and 10 players at 7.5+.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    Can someone explain to me what happened at the end of the game? Why did Rondo draw a foul while shooting a three with less than a second left? It seemed like he was angry at the Suns over something, perhaps some leftover animus from the technical foul assesed against Garnett seconds earlier.
    Posted by davidap

    leftover animus as well as rondo polishing yet another one of his weapons, in this case gamesmanship. "s*ck on this and like it, suns. you too, gentry." after dudley rightly hard fouled him, rondo sprang back up and immediately positioned himself for his three freebies, not looking remotely scared but rather quite pleased with himself. after missing the first FT and with the suns tv guys waxing on the poetic justice of him missing all three, rondo sinks the next two, putting the finishing touches on what must have been a pretty satisfying night. plus, i like the way doc had rondo's back on taking the tacky shot in the first place, noting that under the circumstances he was fine with it. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...

    In Response to Re: Rondo lovers please answer this...:
    Eldunker, you seem to have dismissed ONE HALF OF THE GAME OF BASKETBALL in two words.  Defense isn't just one in a list of basketball skills - it is more important than any three, four, five, etc. set of offensive skills. You mentioned Chris Paul AND Derrick Rose, but didn't make the Rose comparison.  Let me do it for you:  Rose is the best or near the best PGs in the league in scoring,  getting to the rim, providing energy, FT shooting, and ability to hit an open or contested jumper.  He is nowhere near the top in assists, rebounds or ANY DEFENSIVE skill. You are flat out wrong in saying that Rondo is the least efficient scorer, no doubt because you don't know what "efficient scorer" means.  In fact, Rondo is one of the top four PGs in scoring efficiency.  He shoots 51% from the floor.  THAT is efficiency.  You also forgot to mention that Rondo is fine at hitting open jumpers, hence his 45% shooting.  You are also wrong in attributing his open looks merely to defensive choice.  Some of the reasons he gets so many open looks is that he uses picks well, ball fakes well, and uses his quickness to get separation from defenders, many of whom try to stay reasonably close to him so he won't easily pick their team apart with his passing. Other than that, you are OK.
    Posted by jerrycole


    Rondo does whatever he can possibly do to avoid shooting, he is within 2 feet of the basket and kicks it out to someone 25 feet away because he can't finish nor can he shoot free throws. 

    Coincidentally he has 4 of the greatest scorers in the history of the league to pass the ball to.

    Conversely Rose can finish, can shoot, can shoot free throws and does not have 4 hall of famers to pass the ball to.

    What he does do is make his teammates better, conversely Rondo was in junior high when it was already obvious that the 4 guys that he plays with were going to the hall of fame.

    All of that said - Rose can finish, shoot, shoot 3s, shoot free throws and does not avoid shooting..... so........ he does not have more assists because??????  He does not look to avoid shooting, avoid going to the line, etc.

    So the way I look at it and have posted any number of times.....  prior to trading Perk and when he was a starter, the Cs played 3 against 5 on offense with Rondo passing the ball only when it is apparent he will get an assist and then is p issed that the guy he passed it to makes the additional pass..... Rose on the other hand realizes that he is actually part of the offense and one of the 5 guys on the floor that are responsible for scoring......

    Rose is an MVP candidate because he is head and shoulders above Rondo.... Rondo is a two time (and never again) all-star because of whom he plays with.

    For the millionth time..... there are a dozen point guards in the league who if teamed with the four hall of famers would be no worse off and in many cases a lot better.

    Rose and Paul are certainly two of the 1s that make them better.

    I know, I know the automatic response is "Rondo is perfect for this team" and I respond the perception is that he is perfect for this team because "they don't need scoring", "he is a pass first point guard", and all that other crap.

    Last time they played the Bulls Rose embarrassed Rondo off the floor  and the Bulls dominated.  Good thing Rondo is "perfect for the team"..... cliches create wonderful excuses for someone who is vastly overrated and significantly less than what any objective fan would call a complete player.
     
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