Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    If you care so much about me posting that percentage you are welcome to hit the archives and find the 8-10 examples I gave of some of my arguments with you.

    I believe I won around 6-7 of them. 2-3 were too early or impossible to determine. You won maybe 1 of them?

    How has Boozer and the Bulls highly valuable 1st rd pick in the teens for an expiring contract worked out for you?

    Rondo and Wallace for Hill, Granger and two first rd picks in 2016 and 2018 is still fair enough to discuss in my book. Why do you constantly fail to provide all the facts?

    George Hill is NOT the biggest asset in that trade. Draft picks and cap space are. Do you get these things? The Celtics move on from 12 million in '15 and a max extension for Rondo next year to $0. They move an untradable 20 million invested in a 32 year old Wallace to a very tradable 16 million invested in a 28 year old Hill.

    Get it? The Celtics save 16 million.

    If they traded him to the Knicks with Wallace for Amar'e, Shumpert and Tim Hardaway Jr. The Celtics save nothing in '15 and 8 million in '16 with draft picks in '18 and '20. Practically the same deal except Hardaway Jr. and Shumpert (a FA after next season) have more value than Hill.

    I am not in favor of either of those trades. But I 100% made my points on them as being 'fair enough to discuss' and showed Fierce to be wrong in his attacks on me. So that is another win:-)

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Like I said, Rondo for George Hill didn't happen and will never happen.

     

    So how can you claim you won that argument.

    It's your opinion but it's not a fact.

     

    Also, Boozer and a 1st round pick for an expiring contract is just one of my trade proposals.

    I didn't say it will definitely happen.

    All I said was it's possible.

    [/QUOTE]

    And all I said was the trade was NOT Rondo for Hill and I didn't think it would happen nor did I want it to happen.

    All I said was it was fair enough for both sides that we could discuss it and not dismiss it as being a joke of an offer by Indy. I was right in that line of thinking. You were wrong to call it 'Rondo for Hill' and wrong to say that it was a terrible trade idea. So really you were wrong twice.

    It is possible the Bulls trade Boozer and their pick. Same with the Celtics and the Pacers trade.

    I simply said there is little to no chance Chicago moves a 1st rd pick in such a deep draft just to be free of Boozers cash in 2015. The amnesty option was still there. Yes, the owner still pays him the 15m even if amnestied, but it was the tax hit they mostly cared about.

    My opinion was that the Bulls would rather amnesty Boozer and keep such a great pick than trade a pick to be done with his contract after this season. I made the FAR better argument for this than you did. Which is why I consider it yet another W for me.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheBigTicket05. Show TheBigTicket05's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Sorry. You are wrong, and I did the research.

     

     

    Like I said, don't be a fool.

    Here:

    http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/12/trading-future-draft.html

    Of course, in spite of the Stepien rule, a team could still end up without a first-round pick on an annual basis, since the rule only applies to future first-rounders. So a team like Toronto, which traded away its 2013 first-round pick, is now free to move its 2014 first-rounder, if it so chooses. In other words, a team can give up back-to-back first-round picks if the first of those two drafts has already passed.

    [/QUOTE]

    This somehow makes you right?

    HAHAHA

    The Knicks have given up their first rd picks in 2014 and 2016 to the Nuggets.

    How can they give the Celtics... at THIS YEAR'S TRADE DEADLINE... a pick before the 2018 draft?

    Has the 2014 draft happened already?

    Did you even read the information you tried to provide? I bolded it for you above to help with your obvious reading comprehension difficulties.

    Wrong again 'Fiercy'

    [/QUOTE]

    you better do your homework, knicks still have their own 2015 1st rd pick, and right to swap on 2016

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!


    I have a life beyond this forum, unlike you Fiercy, so I have to move on from this. You were told all these things in the past and it is sad that in order to try and say you were not wrong you need to waste peoples time posting exactly why you lost these arguments all over again.'

    To sum it up:

    1. The knicks can't trade a 1st round pick until 2018 

    -  You were wrong to tell me that statement was incorrect and to do research

    2. Swapping picks is not the same as trading picks

    - You were wrong to use that reasoning to support your claim that the Knicks could trade a pick right now before 2018. They can't.

    3. It is fine if you think Olynyk is too big a talent to trade this early in his career and that Gordon's asking price of 12 million is too high. I would trade Olynyk and 1-2 picks for Gordon and top out at giving him 4/46. Can't prove that either of us is 'right' or 'wrong' at this point.

    4. You are wrong to attack my Olynyk/Hayward idea like a bully

    -  You need to leave your opinion if you say my idea is a 'mistake' and then when call you out on that and you say there is 'no point in discussing it b/c it won't happen' then you are wrong again. I can discuss it if I want to and you can simply not respond if you don't see the point.

    5. It is fine to discuss the fairness of moving Rondo and Wallace to the Pacers for George Hill, Danny Granger, DRAFT PICKS and CASH SAVINGS 

    6. If you say that the trade is 'Rondo for Hill' or that I wanted to make a trade of Rondo for Hill... YOU ARE WRONG

    7. Boozer and a draft pick for an expiring contract is very possible by the trade deadline

    - My points on the amnesty clause being available and just how important/deep this draft is pretty much trumped anything you said about the Bulls owner (not a penny pincher) wanting to dump his 2014-15 contract. We'll see in 2-3 weeks.

    So... 8 disagreements with Fiercy, he was wrong SIX TIMES, one time we agreed to disagree and can't find out until we see the Hayward contract and player Olynyk becomes and another Fierce is pretty much wrong on (Boozer) but we'll know for sure by March.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to TheBigTicket05's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    you better do your homework, knicks still have their own 2015 1st rd pick, and right to swap on 2016

    [/QUOTE]

    I did my homework.

    The Knicks do have a 2015 pick. They cannot trade it right now because they have traded their 2014 and 2016 1st rd picks.

    They have the right to swap in 2016 with Denver... but regardless of that they owe their 2016 pick to Toronto, so they do not have a pick in that draft either. Because of that, they cannot trade their 2017 1st rd pick.

    The Knicks cannot offer the Celtics a 1st rd pick (at this time) until 2018. This is a FACT and indisputable.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to 37stories' comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

    And now there's even a Tyson Chandler added to the mix. In other words, they will do whatever it takes to get Melo to commit to staying and we need to take advantage of that! With this position, DA could get a third team involved, be really creative, and really show us the mad scientist that he is. GO GETTem DA!

    http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/537926/20140209/rondo-trade-rumors-celtics.htmGetting interesting! Better get your Kleenex ready Gondo lovers!

     



    I guess the issue would be why would the celtics want amare, Shumpert, Felton and chandler? Yuck. 

     

     




     

    You see no benefit to shedding a proven malcontent/head case and Wallace all in the same deal???? AND, one could argue that you are investing in the dysfunction that a Mel/Rondo led team may be facing. Based on the history of both players, the Knicks are better off not making the trade. It could be a franchise killer. I like the deal for MANY REASONS. Sure, there's a cahnce it could work, but I bet there's not a sports psychologist out there that would bet his carreer on it working.......just an assumption of course.....

     



    I think if Rondo were moved they could do better than getting back a collection of trash from the Knicks.  None of Chandler, Amare, Shumpert or Felton has any value to a team like the Celtics. If i move Rondo, I want to get back youth and or picks.

     

    And the Knicks franchise has already been killed. That team is a mess.

    [/QUOTE]


    The Knicks have a bunch of talented players. Its their simply aweful coaching and the Melo centric offense that has demoralized and stifled the talent there. They should be contenders, but have lost all chemistry and cohesiveness. Talent? Lots of it. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to 37stories' comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

    And now there's even a Tyson Chandler added to the mix. In other words, they will do whatever it takes to get Melo to commit to staying and we need to take advantage of that! With this position, DA could get a third team involved, be really creative, and really show us the mad scientist that he is. GO GETTem DA!

    http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/537926/20140209/rondo-trade-rumors-celtics.htmGetting interesting! Better get your Kleenex ready Gondo lovers!

     



    I guess the issue would be why would the celtics want amare, Shumpert, Felton and chandler? Yuck. 

     

     




     

    You see no benefit to shedding a proven malcontent/head case and Wallace all in the same deal???? AND, one could argue that you are investing in the dysfunction that a Mel/Rondo led team may be facing. Based on the history of both players, the Knicks are better off not making the trade. It could be a franchise killer. I like the deal for MANY REASONS. Sure, there's a cahnce it could work, but I bet there's not a sports psychologist out there that would bet his carreer on it working.......just an assumption of course.....

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think if Rondo were moved they could do better than getting back a collection of trash from the Knicks.  None of Chandler, Amare, Shumpert or Felton has any value to a team like the Celtics. If i move Rondo, I want to get back youth and or picks.

     

    And the Knicks franchise has already been killed. That team is a mess.

    [/QUOTE]


    The Knicks have a bunch of talented players. Its their simply aweful coaching and the Melo centric offense that has demoralized and stifled the talent there. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with you a hundred percent, but I don't see them as the type of talented players that are going to fit in here.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to 37stories' comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

    And now there's even a Tyson Chandler added to the mix. In other words, they will do whatever it takes to get Melo to commit to staying and we need to take advantage of that! With this position, DA could get a third team involved, be really creative, and really show us the mad scientist that he is. GO GETTem DA!

    http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/537926/20140209/rondo-trade-rumors-celtics.htmGetting interesting! Better get your Kleenex ready Gondo lovers!

     



    I guess the issue would be why would the celtics want amare, Shumpert, Felton and chandler? Yuck. 

     

     




     

    You see no benefit to shedding a proven malcontent/head case and Wallace all in the same deal???? AND, one could argue that you are investing in the dysfunction that a Mel/Rondo led team may be facing. Based on the history of both players, the Knicks are better off not making the trade. It could be a franchise killer. I like the deal for MANY REASONS. Sure, there's a cahnce it could work, but I bet there's not a sports psychologist out there that would bet his carreer on it working.......just an assumption of course.....

     



    I think if Rondo were moved they could do better than getting back a collection of trash from the Knicks.  None of Chandler, Amare, Shumpert or Felton has any value to a team like the Celtics. If i move Rondo, I want to get back youth and or picks.

     

    And the Knicks franchise has already been killed. That team is a mess.

    [/QUOTE]


    The Knicks have a bunch of talented players. Its their simply aweful coaching and the Melo centric offense that has demoralized and stifled the talent there. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with you a hundred percent, but I don't see them as the type of talented players that are going to fit in here.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK. Guess we'll see how it rolls out these next couple weeks. I believe that there is a huge opportunity that is born from the Knicks desperation. Maybe a 3rd team gets involved but this has gone on far too long to be chatter. Somethings up and we benefit in a big way. Good thing is we only have to wait 2-weeks to find out If I'm off base.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    rame

    1 and 2 - Can be done if you're creative.

    1 - CANNOT be done 'right now' the only way to get creative is to get the Knicks another 1st rd pick in one of the next 2-3 draft so they can trade a future pick before 2018. You were wrong. You cannot get out of it.

    Obviously you're not creative enough or didn't think of swapping the Knicks pick for the Clips pick.

    Not my fault that you don't have the foresight.

    2 - Hahahahahahaha. My original 'best offer' from NY has them swapping picks with us in '17 and '19.

    Not my fault that you don't have the ability to read before you attack. Sure throw '15 Clippers pick in there as an option to swap as well.

    3 and 4 - Olynyk will not be traded for Gordon Hayward.

    3 -Ok... I did not predict that he would be.

    4 -You were wrong to attack my opinion that I liked that trade idea for the Celtics in the manner you did, with no facts or reason given for your response.

    5. There is no way Rondo for George Hill and a salary dump is fair.

    There you go again, forgetting the picks in the offer. What a joke you are.

    So that is not fair? But Rondo in a salary dump for Shumpert/Hardaway Jr. and LESS money but slighty better picks FARTHER into the future is not only fair to discuss but gets your approval to do?

    The people on this board told you that.

    But when reminded it was also picks and monster savings/cap flexibilty many here said it was fair to discuss the benefits to both teams and is not a black or white Rondo vs. Hill trade scenario like you keep lying and saying it is.

    6. You keep saying Rondo for George Hill is fair.

    No I do NOT. You are a LIAR.

    I NEVER said that swap of players was fair. The closest I ever came to that was saying the PER's were not too far off and we don't know yet if Rondo will be able to return 100% from injury or what Danny would do with the flexibility of having 1 year of Hill (8m in '16) vs. 5 years and 100m to Rondo (max deal).

    That is NOT saying a straight swap of the players talent for talent is fair. You are a LIAR. Get it?

    But when asked if you think it will happen, you said no.

    That's lame, rame.

    Really? This is what you do for EVERYTHING. You NEVER make a prediction, beyond the W's/L's ones in Nov/Dec you blew so badly.

    Makes you the lamest one here.

    I mean you keep telling everybody how fair it is but you also tell us that it won't happen, duh!

    Yup. How many 'fair' trades between two teams can we come up with that won't happen? Hundreds?

    8. Of course you will claim you won, you're also acting as the judge.

    I said I won't claim Boozer as a win until the deadline passes.

    Ask around all you want. Find some other 'judges' Fierce. With the Bulls owner not being a penny pincher, the amnesty option still out there AND the 2014 draft where the Bulls are currently picking 15th being ONE OF THE DEEPEST OF ALL TIME.... please, find some other posters who think it is VERY likely that the Bulls sacrifice that pick just to get the still decent and productive Boozer off their payroll next year. HA!

    But if we base it on facts, none of your arguments panned out so far.

    Hahahahaha... Really???

    So the FACT that the Knicks  currently can't trade a 1st rd pick until 2018 or that 'swapping a pick' is not the same as 'trading pick' didn't pan out for me??

    The argument that I can voice my opinions/suggestions and not expect to be bullied and have them lied about and misrepresented by you 'hasn't panned out'? So you admit that youn are a bully and a liar and I should simply expect that from you and not consider you wrong? Only way you 'win' those arguments is if you admit what a terrible person you are.

    The Fact that Boozer is still a Chicago Bull 'hasn't panned out for me'??

    HAHAHAHA

    For the record, rame, when was the last time any of your arguments ended up becoming a reality?

    Umm... a couple hours ago?

    For the record Fiercy, you lost 6 of the 8 we discussed today, you will probably lose another (that I feel you already lost) at the end of this month and there is just ONE difference of opinion that we had that will take until at least this summer (Hayward contract has to be greater than 4/46) or maybe even 1-2 more years (Olynyk's talent) to determine.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    Why play Rondo so long against Mavs When down by 20+? to prove his health to the suitors   GET READY!!!

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    rame

    I lost nothing.

    But you know you got in someone's head when that someone is making posts as long as a short story.

    HAHAHA

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup, this is how coward's who lose 6 in 8 arguments respond when they lost and there is nothing left to say.

    You wrote 4 short stories earlier today in response to my posts Fiercy. Ones full of lines and weasker arguments, but you wrote 3-4x as much as you usually do to try and spin, slime your way out of being proven wrong, etc.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    This is the best New York can offer:

    http://www.celticslife.com/2014/02/report-knicks-still-lusting-after-rondo.html

    Boston trades: Rajon Rondo, Gerald Wallace, Jeff Green

    New York trades: Amar'e Stoudemire, Iman Shumpert, Tim Hardaway Jr, 2018 1st round pick, 2020 1st round pick, right to swap 1st round picks in 2017 and 2019.

    Like the above article says, I may not find that enough if I am Ainge.

    I am still hoping for Wallace, Bass and Rondo for Greg Monroe, Brandon Jennings, Charlie V's expiring and a small deal like Will Bynum's to make the $ work.

    [/QUOTE]

    ... wait, what???

     

    How do you prefer a deal that brings us an overpaid, unwated PG in Jennings and a RFA who is redundant redundant to our current lineup to a trade that would net us two young guys and two future picks?

     

    Guy, Someone can put in a MAX offer on Monroe and we'd have to let him walk ... 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    Fiercy entered the ring with me on FIVE new topics today. He was proven wrong FOUR times with one draw. The defeats for him keep growing.

    1. Knicks can't currently trade a 1st round pick (Fiercy wrong)

    2. Options to swap picks are not the same thing as trading picks and are not support that a team can trade a pick in drafts that they CANNOT currently trade a pick in (Fiercy wrong)

    3. Fiercy's response to disagreeing with my Olynyk/Hayward trade idea was three drive by insults with laughter, sarcasm and no facts. (The WRONG way to interact with people)

    4. Fiercy's thread about how threads are hijacked beong b/c of other posters personal attacks/discrimination and his being 'forced' to respond. WRONG (see above) they are from his initial immature behavior and bullying, laughing, attacking others. That is why HE was banned and I have NEVER been banned in over 7 years. Multiple posters jump all over hypocrite Fiercy (He is wrong)

    5. Olynyk is going to get MUCH better (Fierce used Joe Johnson as an example, so at least a teams 2nd best player and borderline all-star) and Hayward's extension will be too much for his talent (12+ million) vs. Olynyk getting just a little better (a 15/7 4th-5th best player) and Hayward being affordable as a 3rd-4th best player (11 million per). This was our only draw of the day folks.

    Fierce - 0

    Rameakap - 4

    Draws - 1

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    rame

    It's best if you google the Ted Stepien rule.

    A team can trade their 1st round pick every year.

     

    If you're the GM of the Knicks then maybe they can only trade their 2018 1st rounder.

    But you're not the GM of the Knicks.

    [/QUOTE]

    You googled and cut and pasted the Stepien rule and the language in the rule earlier today.

    It did not prove you right (again, you STRUGGLE TO READ).

    It proved that the Knicks cannot currently trade a 1st round pick until 2018. Like I said originally and like the legitimate website I sourced said.

    Are you really this pathetic?

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to R9R's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    This is the best New York can offer:

    http://www.celticslife.com/2014/02/report-knicks-still-lusting-after-rondo.html

    Boston trades: Rajon Rondo, Gerald Wallace, Jeff Green

    New York trades: Amar'e Stoudemire, Iman Shumpert, Tim Hardaway Jr, 2018 1st round pick, 2020 1st round pick, right to swap 1st round picks in 2017 and 2019.

    Like the above article says, I may not find that enough if I am Ainge.

    I am still hoping for Wallace, Bass and Rondo for Greg Monroe, Brandon Jennings, Charlie V's expiring and a small deal like Will Bynum's to make the $ work.

    [/QUOTE]

    ... wait, what???

     

    How do you prefer a deal that brings us an overpaid, unwated PG in Jennings and a RFA who is redundant redundant to our current lineup to a trade that would net us two young guys and two future picks?

     

    Guy, Someone can put in a MAX offer on Monroe and we'd have to let him walk ... 

    [/QUOTE]

    Umm, no.

    A player is a RESTRICTED free agent for a reason. 

    The max that can be offered to Monroe is the 4/58 that Portland offered for Hibbert and the Pacers matched. While I would hope that the Celtics extend Monroe for 5 years at around what Joakim Noah makes (12m per) I would of course match the 4/58 and hope that a 23-24 year old Monroe can grow into a 22ppg/11rpg franchise player. 14.5m a year ages 24-28 is fair if he 'just' becomes an 18/10 2nd best player.

    He is currently easily a #3 best player on a contender as a 15/9 and worth 11-13 million a year. Overpaying him 2 million a year even if he doesn't improve at all (unlikely) is no problem at all. He is a legit 6'11" big man to pair with Sully. Embiid is the only comparable player in the draft, he'd have to enter it first and then we'd need to land pick #1 or #2, that is too risky).

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Rondo to Knicks still breathing heavy!!!

    In response to R9R's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    This is the best New York can offer:

    http://www.celticslife.com/2014/02/report-knicks-still-lusting-after-rondo.html

    Boston trades: Rajon Rondo, Gerald Wallace, Jeff Green

    New York trades: Amar'e Stoudemire, Iman Shumpert, Tim Hardaway Jr, 2018 1st round pick, 2020 1st round pick, right to swap 1st round picks in 2017 and 2019.

    Like the above article says, I may not find that enough if I am Ainge.

    I am still hoping for Wallace, Bass and Rondo for Greg Monroe, Brandon Jennings, Charlie V's expiring and a small deal like Will Bynum's to make the $ work.

    [/QUOTE]

    ... wait, what???

     

    How do you prefer a deal that brings us an overpaid, unwated PG in Jennings and a RFA who is redundant redundant to our current lineup to a trade that would net us two young guys and two future picks?

     

    Guy, Someone can put in a MAX offer on Monroe and we'd have to let him walk ... 

    [/QUOTE]

    Meanwhile Jennings is MUCH better than Shumpert.

    Even if Shump reverts to his rookie form or improves upon it next year after knee and confident issues, he is then a restricted free agency and gets the same 8m Jennings is getting now. If he doesn't recover and is the player he has been this season he is a bust.

    So basically is is Monroe and savings of 9 million in '15 vs. Hardaway Jr., two picks we wouldn't see for 4 and 6 years and savings of 4 million in '15 (if Monroe signs for 13m a year). After next season the savings becomes too hard to calculate with extensions.

    I will take the Detroit option in a heartbeat.


     
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