Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

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    Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    Here are all the things that were worse than rondo's individual play tonight:

    our overall defense was the worst i've seen in a while.  mostly perpetrated by ray allen and rondo on the perimeter to make trouble for the interior D that had to switch to make up for the egregious failures on the perimeter, but, also delonte and ARROYO IN PARTICULAR were also miserable on D.

    The refs- abominable, but they were willing to work for us to on questionable calls- problem is we didn't roll up our sleeves enough in the post and work- except for davis

    KG got made to look like a nincompoop on multiple occasion by lunchpail worker player chuck hayes.  KG got whacked mentally and physically and even started making unprovoked dumb plays and getting foul calls that he shouldn't have- when you're a vet and you see whistle happy refs, you tone it down some but KG couldn't.

    Doc Rivers- for the life of me, when you're getting smoked this bad you try some different things.  kevin martin's ability to play EVAPORATES when you put someone on him who plays D the old fashioned way, down low and don't go for fakes.  enter avery bradley, but not until the last 5 minutes when we're down 25.  and other things, doc has to exert more control over this team.

    delonte is out there over 20 minutes and takes 3 shots, 2 of them really bad ones?  when exactly will he be integrated at that rate?  and other things that made me vomit tonight about how rotations were managed and bad play was tolerated in a purse lipped "nothing i can do" manner.  first night of a back to back and able bodied low mileage guys like murph are buried on the bench the whole first half?  really?

    and if the REFS are going to take away krstic then YOU take away their chuck hayes- davis could have done this with three posessions on the inside juking and drawing fouls and then chuck goes on his merry way to the bench.  they have nothing else behind chuck hayes with any toughness or ability, wispy 6-10 jordan hill and fat old brad miller are not impresssing the league as a leading off the bench front court mayhem-making duo.  and you start work on them too.  hard hat on, down inside, duking it out.

    rondo shooting 2-11 (actually shooting the ball vs avoiding that altogether) is better than 1-5 or 2-6 and totally shirking the scoring role of the point guard.  he didn't take any really bad shots tonight.  something is wrong with head and body and on any other team where the coach had full control of things, he'd be sitting out games until he talked out the head issues and conquered the injury.  but for some reason, not on the celtics.  is this really productive or are we wasting time putting a beleaguered rondo out there night after night?  you decide.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    Ray Allen and Rondo can carry a big load of this loss also.  They could do nothing against Lowry and Martin.  They got outscored 45-12  in a landslide.  They got us in such a big hole that everyone started forcing stuff.  They were absolutely horrible on the defensive end.  They couldn't contain any drives and they either shot it and made it or drove and dished for a layup. Your not going to beat anyone when you backcourt gets clobbered like that.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]Ray Allen and Rondo can carry a big load of this loss also.  They could do nothing against Lowry and Martin.  They got outscored 45-12  in a landslide.  They got us in such a big hole that everyone started forcing stuff.  They were absolutely horrible on the defensive end.  They couldn't contain any drives and they either shot it and made it or drove and dished for a layup. Your not going to beat anyone when you backcourt gets clobbered like that.
    Posted by OneOnOne[/QUOTE]

    yep, 45-12 is insurmountable

    perhaps the singlemost baffling stat of the night is 6 FGA for ray.  martin is a lazy defender and would HATE to have to run around picks and slants all night.  not making him do any work is inviting him to get hot!!  :-O
     
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    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first : yep, 45-12 is insurmountable perhaps the singlemost baffling stat of the night is 6 FGA for ray.  martin is a lazy defender and would HATE to have to run around picks and slants all night.  not making him do any work is inviting him to get hot!!  :-O
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    I said in another post that Ray and Paul both need to be getting more shots to get their timing down.  tonight Paul started off very agressive in the first quarter, was 1-3 but very active.  He came out and didn't get another shot until halfway thru the 4th quarter and I think two of those were buzzer beaters courtesy of rondo holding the ball until the clock was nearly gone.

    Ray and Paul have been alternating getting shots, one game Ray gets 6-7 shots and Paul 10 and the next game just the opposite.  These guys need to get some timing down by getting shots. Green needs to get starters minutes in some way shape or form.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from OklaBoston. Show OklaBoston's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    The Celtics needed to drive the lane much more often than they did tonight. They also needed to go after rebounds and loose balls harder. That last is what I expect more of from Delonte West especially. I just hope he's not developing a fear of getting injured (again!) that way. It's starting to look like he is, however.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first : I said in another post that Ray and Paul both need to be getting more shots to get their timing down.  tonight Paul started off very agressive in the first quarter, was 1-3 but very active.  He came out and didn't get another shot until halfway thru the 4th quarter and I think two of those were buzzer beaters courtesy of rondo holding the ball until the clock was nearly gone. Ray and Paul have been alternating getting shots, one game Ray gets 6-7 shots and Paul 10 and the next game just the opposite.  These guys need to get some timing down by getting shots. Green needs to get starters minutes in some way shape or form.
    Posted by OneOnOne[/QUOTE]

    there used to be enough shots for both of them.  now they are suffocating to death on offense since our half court game has gotten deadly stagnant with rondo refusing to dribble the ball (85% of the time) and just holding the ball on the wing "distributing it" but he's really killing the offense just standing there as time ticks off the 24.

    the prudent thing to do would be start green and sit ray, if not just for the heck of it for a few games.  green runs like the wind on the break and maybe he can trickle charge rondo's game by dragging him up the court. 

    the celts haven't even tapped into what green has to offer running the break and it would be a shame if it just expired as un-used potential.  we need everything we can get coming into the playoffs.

    my confidence is low that doc will actually try anything though.  look at him (doc).  he won't even sit rondo down and drag out of of the rondo what is bothering him.  it surely doesn't seem to be physical.  if it was something really bad in the injury way of things you'd see some limping, wincing, straining, grabbing at a part of the body.  i don't see any of that, i just see the effort knob has been turned way down low on rondo, and across the floor i see doc doing nothing about it.

    i think it's silly to dream about a starting line up change if doc won't even make that change to get rondo ironed out.  but i have to dream!Laughing
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    Agree acie

    Docs history is to coddle his starters & vets... he doesnt want them to not like him.

    Remember Sheed last season? Doc let him loaf his way through an entire season.

    Is Docs mindset to just hope one of these games his weak-link players just start playing better? Seems that way.   The other players on the team are dealt with more strict. With them, Doc exerts his authority


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    Great posts by all.  You could blame all of the starters for the loss last night.  It was very disappointing to watch this team play so poorly.  Something is definitely bothering Rondo. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]Great posts by all.  You could blame all of the starters for the loss last night.  It was very disappointing to watch this team play so poorly.  Something is definitely bothering Rondo. 
    Posted by susan250[/QUOTE]

    He had a endorsement deal with desitin and Gerber for pacifiers and both of them fell through, since then his game has gone in the tank........

    Does this sound familiar?  If Rondo were 5% slower he would be a back up.......now that he is hurt and 5% less athletic..... things that make you hmmmm.....
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]Agree acie Docs history is to coddle his starters & vets... he doesnt want them to not like him. Remember Sheed last season? Doc let him loaf his way through an entire season. Is Docs mindset to just hope one of these games his weak-link players just start playing better? Seems that way.   The other players on the team are dealt with more strict. With them, Doc exerts his authority
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    and at the same time if glen davis had started acting like a twit they would have shot him and left him in a corn field!!  if doc really is leaving, which wouldn't bother me, he's leaving a dysfunctional mess for someone else to come into named rondo. 

    no player in this league gets away with what rondo has done the last half dozen games w/o being benched or otherwised forced to play his hand of what's bothering him.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]Ray Allen and Rondo can carry a big load of this loss also.  They could do nothing against Lowry and Martin.  They got outscored 45-12  in a landslide.  They got us in such a big hole that everyone started forcing stuff.  They were absolutely horrible on the defensive end.  They couldn't contain any drives and they either shot it and made it or drove and dished for a layup. Your not going to beat anyone when you backcourt gets clobbered like that.
    Posted by OneOnOne[/QUOTE]

    Conversation

    KG to Pierce - I am so glad we have the pass first point guard

    Pierce's response - you are so right KG, this Lowry guy getting to the rim and knocking down 3s and making his freebies is plain silly doesn't he know he is supposed to pass the ball

    KG to Pierce - I like it that Rondo is not actually trying to make shots and that he is trying to wedge the ball between the rim and the backboard so that he can get on sportscenter

    Pierce's response - oh I didn't know he was doing that on purpose

    KG's response - well he didn't tell me that explicitly but why else would his shots look like that?

    It all starts with Rondo, blame whomever you'd like but it all starts with Rondo - well at least that is what I have read here for the last 5 years.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]Ray Allen and Rondo can carry a big load of this loss also.  They could do nothing against Lowry and Martin.  They got outscored 45-12  in a landslide.  They got us in such a big hole that everyone started forcing stuff.  They were absolutely horrible on the defensive end.  They couldn't contain any drives and they either shot it and made it or drove and dished for a layup. Your not going to beat anyone when you backcourt gets clobbered like that.
    Posted by OneOnOne[/QUOTE]

    Conversation

    KG to Pierce - I am so glad we have the pass first point guard

    Pierce's response - you are so right KG, this Lowry guy getting to the rim and knocking down 3s and making his freebies is plain silly doesn't he know he is supposed to pass the ball

    KG to Pierce - I like it that Rondo is not actually trying to make shots and that he is trying to wedge the ball between the rim and the backboard so that he can get on sportscenter

    Pierce's response - oh I didn't know he was doing that on purpose

    KG's response - well he didn't tell me that explicitly but why else would his shots look like that?

    It all starts with Rondo, blame whomever you'd like but it all starts with Rondo - well at least that is what I have read here for the last 5 years.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil11. Show snakeoil11's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first : Conversation KG to Pierce - I am so glad we have the pass first point guard Pierce's response - you are so right KG, this Lowry guy getting to the rim and knocking down 3s and making his freebies is plain silly doesn't he know he is supposed to pass the ball KG to Pierce - I like it that Rondo is not actually trying to make shots and that he is trying to wedge the ball between the rim and the backboard so that he can get on sportscenter Pierce's response - oh I didn't know he was doing that on purpose KG's response - well he didn't tell me that explicitly but why else would his shots look like that? It all starts with Rondo, blame whomever you'd like but it all starts with Rondo - well at least that is what I have read here for the last 5 years.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]


    You spent the first three months of this season saying the big three could score points with anyone passing them the ball and that anyone could have 14 assists a game.  What happened to that?

    The whole team stinks right now.  Who is playing well?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first : You spent the first three months of this season saying the big three could score points with anyone passing them the ball and that anyone could have 14 assists a game.  What happened to that? The whole team stinks right now.  Who is playing well?
    Posted by snakeoil11[/QUOTE]

    way to make a splash!!

    davis, green, krstic are all playing well.  they're feeding on themselves for points and getting assists from kg and pierce.

    NO offense can score adequate points or get the right looks with a blob of point guard just standing still on the perimeter doing what rondo is doing right now.  i don't know how that's difficult for you to understand.  add to that his shot is as bad as it can get and teams don't respect him and sag off of him more than ever and it's living h-e double L's for anyone in the half court game in a green uniform.

    personally i am all for benching rondo and throwing delonte to the sharks for over 30 minutes a game and filling the gaps with arroyo.  the two of them can't do any worse than the rondo sabotage that is going on right now.

    but keep your head up, good try at a rip for a first post, i guess.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first : You spent the first three months of this season saying the big three could score points with anyone passing them the ball and that anyone could have 14 assists a game.  What happened to that? The whole team stinks right now.  Who is playing well?
    Posted by snakeoil11[/QUOTE]

    Um Shaq was healthy and they have played too many minutes and they have just overhauled their bench and they have had injuries.

    I appreciate it when words are put into my mouth as well.....

    So here is what I really said - I think their offense is dysfunctional because they play 3 against 5 mots of the time and any time they play a good defensive or young and athletic team they really struggle.

    I have said the offense has always been the problem and those that have been enchanted with the foolish "Rondo and Perk don't need to score, there is plenty of scoring, as long as those two do their job then they should be fine".... I of course laughed at that and reminded everyone that they are in the bottom third of the league in scoring.

    So while you may think I said that they can score at will, I never have.

    I also have never said anyone passing them the ball would average 14 assists - however any point guard that could shoot would get fewer assists because he would actually shoot instead of giving up the ball after pounding it into the floor for half the shot clock.

    What I have said is that there are at least a dozen other point guards in the league if slotted into Rondo's spot they would be no worse off and in a lot of cases a lot better.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from b126962. Show b126962's posts

    Re: Rondo wasn't good vs. Hou but several others deserve blame for this catastrophe first

    The whole D was horrible, everybody looked tired and wasn't making the rotations in time, and on offense Rondo held the ball at the top and waited for something to develope which clearly wasn't working. They just had a day off, PUSH THE DAMN BALL. Rondo can dish to the bigs, Ray can get wide open 3's, Pierce can attack the basket etc. Another thing, it seems to me the last 3 or 4 games, we can't make any of our bread and butter shots. Fall aways and 18 footers for KG, corner 3's for Allen, step back jumpers for Pierce, 12 footers for Rondo, none of them going in. What is going on?
     

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