Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 7:30 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
- Last: 4/27/2013
I've been accused of being a Rondo hater. So once and for all let's break down Rondo's jump shots since the first game of the season.
Game 1: Boston at NY
Rondo attempted 8 jump shots and made 3 against the Knicks.
Game 2: at Miami
Rondo attempted 2 jump shots and made none.
Game 3: at New Orleans
Rondo went 1 for 3.
Game 4: Detroit
Rondo went 2 for 4.
Game 5: at Washington
Rondo went 1 for 3.
Game 6: Washington
Rondo went 1 for 5.
Game 7: New Jersey
Rondo went 1 for 5.
Game 8: Indiana
Rondo went 1 for 4.
Game 9: Dallas
Rondo went 1 for 6.
Game 10: Chicago
Rondo went 3 for 4.
Game 11: at Indiana
Rondo went 0 for 3.
Game 12: OKC
Rondo went 1 for 4.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 7:35 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
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All in all Rondo attempted 51 jump shots and made 15 of them. That's 29.4%
That's right, in 12 games Rondo attempted 51 jump shots and made only 15.
Now tell me if that's good shooting.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 7:53 AM EST
- basketbert
- Posts: 2113
- First: 11/22/2007
- Last: 5/16/2013
Pretty telling. Compare that to Westbrook who made some ridiculous threes last night late in the game. Sigh...
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 7:55 AM EST
- basketbert
- Posts: 2113
- First: 11/22/2007
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
All in all Rondo attempted 51 jump shots and made 15 of them. That's 29.4% That's right, in 12 games Rondo attempted 51 jump shots and made only 15. Now tell me if that's good shooting.
Posted by Fiercest34
By the way, overall I like Rondo and think he is a pretty spectacular player. However, I don't think that the shooting/FT aspect of his game will ever improve, unfortunately.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 8:57 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
In Response to Re: Rondo's Jump Shot : By the way, overall I like Rondo and think he is a pretty spectacular player. However, I don't think that the shooting/FT aspect of his game will ever improve, unfortunately.
Posted by basketbert
Agree. It's year 6, hard to believe after 6 years in the NBA you will still become a different player. Rondo is not a shooter and will likely never become a good shooter.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 9:00 AM EST
- tomobo
- Posts: 616
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
All in all Rondo attempted 51 jump shots and made 15 of them. That's 29.4% That's right, in 12 games Rondo attempted 51 jump shots and made only 15. Now tell me if that's good shooting.
Posted by Fiercest34
That's damn good shooting. For Helen Keller(and she's lost a step or two).
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 9:04 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
- Last: 4/27/2013
In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
In Response to Re: Rondo's Jump Shot : That's damn good shooting. For Helen Keller(and she's lost a step or two).
Posted by tomobo
Ha Ha
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 9:10 AM EST
- tomobo
- Posts: 616
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
In Response to Re: Rondo's Jump Shot : Ha Ha
Posted by Fiercest34
Hey, at least you acknowledge my existence...
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 9:14 AM EST
- concord27
- Posts: 7559
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I truly wonder what DA and Doc are thinking. Rondo will not have the tools to run the kind of team he did the last four years. So what do you do? He has value at least compared to the rest of the team.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 9:19 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
- Last: 4/27/2013
In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
I truly wonder what DA and Doc are thinking. Rondo will not have the tools to run the kind of team he did the last four years. So what do you do? He has value at least compared to the rest of the team.
Posted by concord27
I think it's too late to move Rondo.
Only Ray has high value and JO might land us a pick if there's a team really desperate for a big man. Other than Ray and JO we have no other tradable assets.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 9:26 AM EST
- concord27
- Posts: 7559
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- Last: 5/19/2013
Rondo could still be traded in my opinion. The only thing is because of last year and the Perkins trade the rest of the league may actually use us as a precedent for destroying team chemistry. What happened to us after that trade will be used like a legal document as evidence of the risk of in season trades.
DH excluded.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 9:32 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
Rondo could still be traded in my opinion. The only thing is because of last year and the Perkins trade the rest of the league may actually use us as a precedent for destroying team chemistry. What happened to us after that trade will be used like a legal document as evidence of the risk of in season trades. DH excluded.
Posted by concord27
We're not going to get anything of equal value for Rondo. The best we can hope for now is Rondo for Deron Williams. Deron refuses to sign an extension with the Nets, so he's likely going to be traded on or before the trade deadline.
But I think if there's one player going to be traded it's Ray Allen. He still has high value and an expiring contract.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 9:59 AM EST
- SeemsToMe
- Posts: 518
- First: 6/24/2008
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In Response to
Rondo's Jump Shot:
Fiercest
I clicked on to the site. Where did your numbers come from? What window do I need to open?
Seems
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 9:59 AM EST
- Petey62
- Posts: 2653
- First: 11/2/2008
- Last: 5/9/2013
Fiercest34, I have to disagree with you on some of your counts but agree that his jumper does not look "that" improved. But before disagreeing with you, what qualifies as a "jumper"? Is a 3-point attempt a "jumper"? I did the same for shots outside of 10 feet using the ESPN shot chart and had different results.
http://espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=311227014In the Miami game, Rondo hit jumpers from 25 and 10 feet while missing from 25, 25, 19, and 18 (all outside of 10 feet). Against NOH, he hit a 23 foot jumper and an 18 ft shot. Against Dallas, he hit 16 and 13 foot jumpers. Are you only counting 2-point field goals.
By no means am I suggesting Rondo's shooting has significantly improved but I am seeing more confidence in him taking the shot. But you are right, it should be much improved and it just hasn't regardless of that increased confidence level.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:00 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
In Response to Rondo's Jump Shot : Fiercest I clicked on to the site. Where did your numbers come from? What window do I need to open? Seems
Posted by SeemsToMe
You have to manually check the play by play data.
Beside the boxscore you will see the play by play breakdown.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:04 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
Fiercest34, I have to disagree with you on some of your counts but agree that his jumper does not look "that" improved. But before disagreeing with you, what qualifies as a "jumper"? Is a 3-point attempt a "jumper"? I did the same for shots outside of 10 feet using the ESPN shot chart and had different results.
http://espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=311227014 In the Miami game, Rondo hit jumpers from 25 and 10 feet while missing from 25, 25, 19, and 18 (all outside of 10 feet). Against NOH, he hit a 23 foot jumper and an 18 ft shot. Against Dallas, he hit 16 and 13 foot jumpers. Are you only counting 2-point field goals. By no means am I suggesting Rondo's shooting has significantly improved but I am seeing more confidence in him taking the shot. But you are right, it should be much improved and it just hasn't regardless of that increased confidence level.
Posted by Petey62
Those are only 2-point FGs, Pete. Jamez was giving me a hard time about Rondo's FG%. He said Rondo has improved in the jump shooting department because Rondo's FG% has improved. That's not accurate. Rondo's FG% is close to 50% because Rondo makes a lot of lay-ups.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:10 AM EST
- Petey62
- Posts: 2653
- First: 11/2/2008
- Last: 5/9/2013
I am not sure of the accuracy of your data as evidence to support your point although it is a valid point.
The game-by-game shot chart on ESPN provides more detail, again, with shots 10 feet and out (my criteria). Using that criteria, he's attempted 48 jumpers and he's made 19 of them which turns out to be 39.6% which is a tad better than the 29% you say.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:15 AM EST
- kccorwin
- Posts: 281
- First: 10/30/2007
- Last: 8/14/2012
In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
Fiercest34, I have to disagree with you on some of your counts but agree that his jumper does not look "that" improved. But before disagreeing with you, what qualifies as a "jumper"? Is a 3-point attempt a "jumper"? I did the same for shots outside of 10 feet using the ESPN shot chart and had different results.
http://espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=311227014 In the Miami game, Rondo hit jumpers from 25 and 10 feet while missing from 25, 25, 19, and 18 (all outside of 10 feet). Against NOH, he hit a 23 foot jumper and an 18 ft shot. Against Dallas, he hit 16 and 13 foot jumpers. Are you only counting 2-point field goals. By no means am I suggesting Rondo's shooting has significantly improved but I am seeing more confidence in him taking the shot. But you are right, it should be much improved and it just hasn't regardless of that increased confidence level.
Posted by Petey62
I agree that the percentages are not up but he is starting to look for his shot and that's a good sign. He does pass up some good shots to pass to others and does get caught taking last second shots which are not always good shots but he has to take them due to the shot clock. I wish the progress was better but he is is making progress. He still shoots at a 50% or better clip as he is able to get a lot of layups due to his quickness which you have to factor in when talking about his shooting.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:16 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
- Last: 4/27/2013
In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
I am not sure of the accuracy of your data as evidence to support your point although it is a valid point. The game-by-game shot chart on ESPN provides more detail, again, with shots 10 feet and out (my criteria). Using that criteria, he's attempted 48 jumpers and he's made 19 of them which turns out to be 39.6% which is a tad better than the 29% you say.
Posted by Petey62
Here's a sample of the NBA play by play data sheet.
| Pavlovic 3pt Shot: Missed | 09:44 | |
| | 09:42 | James Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) |
| | 09:40 | Wade Turnover : Bad Pass (1 TO) |
| Rondo Jump Shot: Missed | 09:28 | |
| | 09:27 | Chalmers Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) |
| | 09:04
[MIA 9-4] | James Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS) |
| Allen Layup Shot: Made (4 PTS) Assist: Garnett (1 AST) | 08:49
[BOS 6-9] | |
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:19 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
In Response to Re: Rondo's Jump Shot : I agree that the percentages are not up but he is starting to look for his shot and that's a good sign. He does pass up some good shots to pass to others and does get caught taking last second shots which are not always good shots but he has to take them due to the shot clock. I wish the progress was better but he is is making progress. He still shoots at a 50% or better clip as he is able to get a lot of layups due to his quickness which you have to factor in when talking about his shooting.
Posted by kccorwin
Exactly! Rondo's FG% is high because of lay-ups, not jump shots. What I'm trying to point out is Rondo's FG% is high because of lay-ups, not because he's as good as Pierce or Ray from the perimeter.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:34 AM EST
- basketbert
- Posts: 2113
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
In Response to Re: Rondo's Jump Shot : I think it's too late to move Rondo. Only Ray has high value and JO might land us a pick if there's a team really desperate for a big man. Other than Ray and JO we have no other tradable assets.
Posted by Fiercest34
What I would do is keep the big three, convince PP to restructure his contract, sign RA and KG for small money to come off the bench. Keep Rondo, Bass, Pietrus, try to sign Green, and keep maybe Moore and Stiemsma. There should be money left to acquire two good players and we have several picks that could be good.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:39 AM EST
- Petey62
- Posts: 2653
- First: 11/2/2008
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
In Response to Re: Rondo's Jump Shot : Here's a sample of the NBA play by play data sheet. Pavlovic 3pt Shot: Missed 09:44 09:42 James Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 09:40 Wade Turnover : Bad Pass (1 TO) Rondo Jump Shot: Missed 09:28 09:27 Chalmers Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 09:04 [MIA 9-4] James Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS) Allen Layup Shot: Made (4 PTS) Assist: Garnett (1 AST) 08:49 [BOS 6-9]
Posted by Fiercest34
Ok, I see how you came to your conclusions. You should check out the ESPN shot chart because it shows the distance of that jump shot. There are some entries that show 5 foot jumper. I'm not counting those although the "play-by-play" may count that as a jumper. The shot chart does include 3-point shots because to evaluate Rondo's jumper, you have to include those too. But I see your premise which is valid.
I definitely don't count the FG% simply because he gets alot of layups. It will be interesting to see what the Celtics do with Rondo. He's at that point where there should be some marked improvements in obvious facets of his game and they just aren't there in his shooting.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:40 AM EST
- kccorwin
- Posts: 281
- First: 10/30/2007
- Last: 8/14/2012
I like that idea also although we will probably not get Pierce to restructure unless he really having a poor season. If we can get KG and Ray for small money then we can attract some good free agents and draft well we will be able to keep winning while we rebuild.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:40 AM EST
- Fiercest34
- Posts: 15670
- First: 3/24/2011
- Last: 4/27/2013
In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
In Response to Re: Rondo's Jump Shot : What I would do is keep the big three, convince PP to restructure his contract, sign RA and KG for small money to come off the bench. Keep Rondo, Bass, Pietrus, try to sign Green, and keep maybe Moore and Stiemsma. There should be money left to acquire two good players and we have several picks that could be good.
Posted by basketbert
Unlike the NFL the NBA does not allow teams to restructure the player's contract. In the NBA you can give the player a raise but you can't ask the player to restructure the contract so that it will be more cap friendly.
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot
posted at 1/17/2012 10:41 AM EST
- basketbert
- Posts: 2113
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In Response to
Re: Rondo's Jump Shot:
In Response to Re: Rondo's Jump Shot : I agree that the percentages are not up but he is starting to look for his shot and that's a good sign. He does pass up some good shots to pass to others and does get caught taking last second shots which are not always good shots but he has to take them due to the shot clock. I wish the progress was better but he is is making progress. He still shoots at a 50% or better clip as he is able to get a lot of layups due to his quickness which you have to factor in when talking about his shooting.
Posted by kccorwin
No. Layups have nothing to do with shooting. Even floaters, which Rondo makes pretty well, are not shots. Agree with petey, anything outside 10 ft is shooting. Maybe that should even be 15 ft and out to take away the contribution of the floaters.
