Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

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    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to BiggerThanMyBrady's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I apologize for the length on this, but this is a good topic. Found it to be more interesting the more I dove into it. If you don't want to read a lot of numbers than skip this. If you're looking for a balanced argument for Asik vs Sanders.

     

    Both players have had ONE good season in their respective careers

     

    Asik (2012-2013): 10.1 points, 11.7 boards, 0.9 assists, 1.1 blocks, 54% FG, 56% FT, 30 MPG

     

    Sanders (same year): 9.8 points, 9.5 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 2.8 blocks, 51% FG, 61% FT, 27 MPG

     

    But Asik played 500 more minutes last year than Sanders. Extrapolate those numbers at 36 min per game and you get:

     

    Asik: 12.2 points, 14.0 boards, 1.1 assists, 1.3 blocks, 54% FG, 56% FT

     

    Sanders: 12.9 points, 12.5 boards, 1.5 assists, 3.7 blocks, 51% FG, 61% FT

     

    Pretty similar numbers. One's a better rebounder, the other is a better shot blocker. But how much better of a shot blocker is Sanders really?

     

    Well last year he set the Bucks franchise record for blocks in a three-game stretch with 22. He beat Kareem's record, but the difference between the two is Kareem started while Sanders did that coming off the bench. As a starter Sanders averaged a double-double per game (10.3 points, 10 boards, 2.8 blocks in 28.5 minutes per). While Asik is second best in the NBA at rebound percentage, Sanders is still in the top-10. With Sanders on the floor the Bucks were the fourth best defensive team in the NBA. Players in the NBA average about 55-60% shooting when inside the circle. When Larry Sanders is playing, players shoot 35%. That is all in the link I provided earlier if you want to double check.

     

    Here's what's not in that link.

     

    Offensively things get a little dicey. At the rim Sanders shot 65% last year, while Asik shot a solid 60%. Now Asik has a higher percentage from 10-15 feet but it's on .1 attempts per game, meaning that Asik likes to play close to the basket on offense (it also suggests that Asik gets points on put backs from offensive rebounds).

     

    From 3-9 feet from the basket:

     

    Asik: 27% on 1.2 attempts/game

     

    Sanders: 26% on 1.2 attempts/game

     

    From 10-15 feet:

     

    Asik: 54% on 0.1 attempts

     

    Sanders: 30% on 0.6 attempts

     

    From 16-23 feet:

     

    Asik: 35% on 0.2 attempts

     

    Sanders: 29% on 1.3 attempts

     

    Asik had 14% of his shots blocked last year. Sanders' shot was blocked on only 5% of the time. This could either be explained by Asik being too close to the rim, which is more susceptible to blocks, or Asik has zero ups (which is partially true). What the data above suggests is even thought Asik's percentages were higher, defenses have to respect Sanders ability to stretch the floor more based on the amount of attempts. Asik RARELY shot further than 9 feet away from the basket. Would think Stevens would prefer a big that stretches the floor considering he has KO, Sully, and Fav all shooting 3's.

     

    Also last year Asik had a 14.84 PER vs Sanders 18.92.

     

    Sanders is due 11 million for the next four years. Asik is only on the books for 14 million next year. That seems to be the big issue here. But Sanders is two years younger than Asik and who knows what Omer will get once he's up for a new contract. To me, Sanders is the more valuable player when you look at everything together. His defense speaks for itself, his rebounding numbers are comparable, and he can stretch the floor.

     

    Have at it folks.

    That's quite the long, all things considered, their a wash. I don't see either one turning ateam around.

     

     




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiggerThanMyBrady. Show BiggerThanMyBrady's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

     

    That's quite the long, all things considered, their a wash. I don't see either one turning ateam around.

     

    I know. But I wanted to actually provide to sides to an argument, which takes some time. Took me about 30 min to get all that info typed up 

     







     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiggerThanMyBrady. Show BiggerThanMyBrady's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    I disagree about it being a wash though. I think Sanders is the more versitle player offensively and defensively. Never mind he's two years younger with room to grow. You have to remember Asik has always played with good talent around him (Rose, Deng, Noah) and better coaching (Thibs and McHale) than Sanders (Jennings, Ellis, Illyasova - Skiles, Drew, Boylan).

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiggerThanMyBrady. Show BiggerThanMyBrady's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    Also the league is overpaying for bigs. If you look below, I've mapped out what bigs make what. I discount players still on rookie deals because they will make significantly more when they're up for free agency (like Anthony Davis). Also, if it's the last year of the current contract I took that number. If they are locked up for mulitple years I took the 2014 number.

    Horford 12 Mill                                             Hawes 6 mil

    Hump 12 Mill                                                 Okafor 14 mil

    Brook 14 mill                                                 Aldridge 15 mil

    KG 12 Mil                                                       Splitter 10 mil (decreasing)

    Big Al 13 mil                                                 

    Noah 12 mil

    Bynum 12 mil

    McGee 11 mil

    Bogut 14 Mil

    David Lee 14 mil

    Howard 21 mil

    Asik 14 mil

    Hibbert 14 mil

    DeAndre 11 mil

    Griffin 17 mil

    Pau 19 mil

    ZBo 17 Mil

    Marc Gasol 14 mil

    Bosh 19 mil

    Sanders 11 mil

    KLove 15 mil

    Pekovic 12 mil

    Amare 23 mil

    Chandler 14 mil

    Serge 12.5 mil

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from KJandHondo. Show KJandHondo's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to Rajon-Hondo's comment:

    That's quite the long, all things considered, their a wash. I don't see either one turning ateam around.




    I'm pretty sure if you look at the NBA the reason Bigs are overpays are because they are rare and can turn a team around.  If you put a Defensive legit 5 on the Cs roster is drastically alters how Stevens approaches defense.  Having a rim protector like Sanders would allow perimeter players to more closely guard the 3 pt line and generally play more aggressively due to knowing that if their man gets by them they are not going to have an easy look at a layup.   Also, his athleticism allows the ability to work double teams, traps and cover a variety of players and positions.  Having a true center then gives a player like Sully the ability to actually play his real position of PF.  When not having to struggle against 5s on both ends we can see Sully can be extremely effective (I’m looking at you Love).   So, honestly I am of the thought that a true center WILL really impact the Celtics in a positive manner and will allow their prospects to actually work within their true positions, against players they should be matched up on. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    I would prefer Asik because Sanders seems to be an idiot!

     

    Anyone see the pass KO made to Sully last night?

     

    BBIQ folks.......both our kids have it, and neither one should be traded!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiggerThanMyBrady. Show BiggerThanMyBrady's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to BirdandCowens' comment:

    I would prefer Asik because Sanders seems to be an idiot!

     

    Anyone see the pass KO made to Sully last night?

     

    BBIQ folks.......both our kids have it, and neither one should be traded!



    Neither of those two are rim protectors. Sullinger is the real deal. Really good stretch four with the ability to play the five a little. KO is too young in his career to define him, but got tons of points last night for saving multiple possessions

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)


    Sanders to me is the better player and much better fit, an athletic big with excellent length, something this team really lacks. He is a very good rim protector too.  Illyasova is overrated, he had one really good year and then got paid. He seems redundant with ko.

    The rondo deal seems decent if we can get mclemore and their 1st rd pick for 2014, but my only concern is we are already set at the 2, so mclemore doesnt really fill a need there. 

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Let's just put it this way, if Larry Sanders is better than Asik then why is Milwaukee interested in getting Asik?

    Doesn't make sense.

     

    From Mployee's source on page 1 below.

    The real question we should take away from these rumors, if there is any substance to them, is what they say about Larry Sanders' standing in the organization. There's no denying it has been a round year for Sanders and it's come at a very inopportune time for Milwaukee. Just as soon as he was installed as the de facto Face of the Franchise, he ends up in an embarrassing bar fight and suffers a serious injury that cripples the team.   Sanders already had a reputation for general on-court mayhem. On top of lots of other little slip ups (questions about his effortheated arguments with teammates, etc.), it may be worth wondering if his personality/temperament is truly an issue. He's too talented a player (with too low a trade value) to give up on right now, and maybe a few anger management courses or stronger coaching guidance are all it would take to clear things up. In addition, the CBA's Poison Pill provision makes Larry a more difficult player to trade before next summer when his extension takes effect. And if Sanders  isn't dealt in conjunction with acquiring Asik, well then I don't know what the hell's going on. Asik isn't demanding a trade so he can be a backup in Milwaukee, a scenario that would seem likely if Sanders returns to the level of play we saw last season.




    You said the same thing about Blatche and look what he's doing now ... Guys mature and in most cases it s in year 5 that they become the player that they can be ... I'd take him given the opportunity just like Red took DJ.



     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to BCSP's comment:

     

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Let's just put it this way, if Larry Sanders is better than Asik then why is Milwaukee interested in getting Asik?

    Doesn't make sense.

     

    From Mployee's source on page 1 below.

    The real question we should take away from these rumors, if there is any substance to them, is what they say about Larry Sanders' standing in the organization. There's no denying it has been a round year for Sanders and it's come at a very inopportune time for Milwaukee. Just as soon as he was installed as the de facto Face of the Franchise, he ends up in an embarrassing bar fight and suffers a serious injury that cripples the team.   Sanders already had a reputation for general on-court mayhem. On top of lots of other little slip ups (questions about his effortheated arguments with teammates, etc.), it may be worth wondering if his personality/temperament is truly an issue. He's too talented a player (with too low a trade value) to give up on right now, and maybe a few anger management courses or stronger coaching guidance are all it would take to clear things up. In addition, the CBA's Poison Pill provision makes Larry a more difficult player to trade before next summer when his extension takes effect. And if Sanders  isn't dealt in conjunction with acquiring Asik, well then I don't know what the hell's going on. Asik isn't demanding a trade so he can be a backup in Milwaukee, a scenario that would seem likely if Sanders returns to the level of play we saw last season.

     




    You said the same thing about Blatche and look what he's doing now ... Guys mature and in most cases it s in year 5 that they become the player that they can be ... I'd take him given the opportunity just like Red took DJ.

     






    I admit it - I am an idiot!! It all started in the playground when I was a kid!!! 



    It is OK Mployee - the first step in the recovery process is admiting you are an IDIOT!!

    Well done!!

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to BCSP's comment:

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to BCSP's comment:

     

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Let's just put it this way, if Larry Sanders is better than Asik then why is Milwaukee interested in getting Asik?

    Doesn't make sense.

     

    From Mployee's source on page 1 below.

    The real question we should take away from these rumors, if there is any substance to them, is what they say about Larry Sanders' standing in the organization. There's no denying it has been a round year for Sanders and it's come at a very inopportune time for Milwaukee. Just as soon as he was installed as the de facto Face of the Franchise, he ends up in an embarrassing bar fight and suffers a serious injury that cripples the team.   Sanders already had a reputation for general on-court mayhem. On top of lots of other little slip ups (questions about his effortheated arguments with teammates, etc.), it may be worth wondering if his personality/temperament is truly an issue. He's too talented a player (with too low a trade value) to give up on right now, and maybe a few anger management courses or stronger coaching guidance are all it would take to clear things up. In addition, the CBA's Poison Pill provision makes Larry a more difficult player to trade before next summer when his extension takes effect. And if Sanders  isn't dealt in conjunction with acquiring Asik, well then I don't know what the hell's going on. Asik isn't demanding a trade so he can be a backup in Milwaukee, a scenario that would seem likely if Sanders returns to the level of play we saw last season.

     




    You said the same thing about Blatche and look what he's doing now ... Guys mature and in most cases it s in year 5 that they become the player that they can be ... I'd take him given the opportunity just like Red took DJ.

     






    I admit it - I am an idiot!! It all started in the playground when I was a kid!!! 



    It is OK Mployee - the first step in the recovery process is admiting you are an IDIOT!!

    Well done!!




    Just so you know ... when you were getting acosted on the playground during recess by the local bully it was I that dropped him to the ground!

    You're on your own now sonny ... How much change do you have in your pocket?



    I don't know - why don't you ask these two guys!!!

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to BCSP's comment:

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to BCSP's comment:

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to BCSP's comment:

     

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Let's just put it this way, if Larry Sanders is better than Asik then why is Milwaukee interested in getting Asik?

    Doesn't make sense.

     

    From Mployee's source on page 1 below.

    The real question we should take away from these rumors, if there is any substance to them, is what they say about Larry Sanders' standing in the organization. There's no denying it has been a round year for Sanders and it's come at a very inopportune time for Milwaukee. Just as soon as he was installed as the de facto Face of the Franchise, he ends up in an embarrassing bar fight and suffers a serious injury that cripples the team.   Sanders already had a reputation for general on-court mayhem. On top of lots of other little slip ups (questions about his effortheated arguments with teammates, etc.), it may be worth wondering if his personality/temperament is truly an issue. He's too talented a player (with too low a trade value) to give up on right now, and maybe a few anger management courses or stronger coaching guidance are all it would take to clear things up. In addition, the CBA's Poison Pill provision makes Larry a more difficult player to trade before next summer when his extension takes effect. And if Sanders  isn't dealt in conjunction with acquiring Asik, well then I don't know what the hell's going on. Asik isn't demanding a trade so he can be a backup in Milwaukee, a scenario that would seem likely if Sanders returns to the level of play we saw last season.

     




    You said the same thing about Blatche and look what he's doing now ... Guys mature and in most cases it s in year 5 that they become the player that they can be ... I'd take him given the opportunity just like Red took DJ.

     






    I admit it - I am an idiot!! It all started in the playground when I was a kid!!! 



    It is OK Mployee - the first step in the recovery process is admiting you are an IDIOT!!

    Well done!!




    Just so you know ... when you were getting acosted on the playground during recess by the local bully it was I that dropped him to the ground!

    You're on your own now sonny ... How much change do you have in your pocket?



    I don't know - why don't you ask these two guys!!!




    Everyone here knows that it's waste of time trying to reason with Fungus and his twin butt snifer ...

     



    You can't hold a candle to Fierce on this board - the picture below best illustrates the analogy I would use to describe your debates!

    Guess who the mouse is, Mployee!

     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Danny Ainge is staying away from immature players.

    Ainge learned his lesson after Delonte punched Von Wafer in practice.

     

    Didn't Terrence Williams play well for the Celts last season?

    Ainge didn't re-sign him after he got arrested, right?

     

    Andray Blatche was without a team for a long time last season and the Celts didn't sign him.

     

    It's very clear Ainge does not want players with issues.

     

    That's why you're always wrong, Mployee, you use your mouth more than your brain!

     




    Like when you said KG would NEVER play next to Blatche? 

     

    HAHAHA .... Guess what?

     

    WRONG AGAIN!!!   YOU"RE ON A ROLL ... A TANKING ROLL YOURSELF!!!

     



    A simple question? 

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Rumors that Rockets talking with Bucks Re Ilyasova/Sanders (C's can facilitate)

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to BCSP's comment:

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Danny Ainge is staying away from immature players.

    Ainge learned his lesson after Delonte punched Von Wafer in practice.

     

    Didn't Terrence Williams play well for the Celts last season?

    Ainge didn't re-sign him after he got arrested, right?

     

    Andray Blatche was without a team for a long time last season and the Celts didn't sign him.

     

    It's very clear Ainge does not want players with issues.

     

    That's why you're always wrong, Mployee, you use your mouth more than your brain!

     




    Like when you said KG would NEVER play next to Blatche? 

     

    HAHAHA .... Guess what?

     

    WRONG AGAIN!!!   YOU"RE ON A ROLL ... A TANKING ROLL YOURSELF!!!

     



    A simple question? 




    Look who couldn't help but defend his ButtCheeseSecretPal?

     



    Was that a yes, a no, or both? 

     
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