to put it simply- if shaq does not start for us and play approximately the 1st and 3rd quarters then we should reneg on the contract and get rid of him. he is a match for garnett. he is also nothing to have on the floor to finish out games but can eat up minutes in between times.
to try to cut up the minutes in some stupid way so that jermane still starts and gets his ego stroked but shaq somehow ends up out there for most all of garnett's minutes is just dumb. ego stroking has never been the celts ways and moreover the players have nearly always been smart enough to realize what's best for the team.
if jermaine can't get on board with what's good for the team, i'd be shocked. it's so obvious even an eighth grader could figure it out. in my book, for the regular season you want jermaine and shaq to be as close to a 24/24 minute split as possible and then assuming jermaine has anything left, you ramp him up only as needed in the playoffs in the close games.
neither one of these o'neals is good for more than 24 a night in an extended fashion. witness how jermaine ran out of gas harder than a dozen ray allen's in the post season last year- 20% shooting.
this thread is a lot of hot air over something that will be conquered before the first game is played. this is just basic common sense of whose skills matches up with who and minute management. shak plays 1 and 3 and jermaine plays quarters 2 and 4............. get it?
Shaq as 6th man?
-
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 12:19 AM EDT
- aciemvp
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Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 12:53 AM EDT
- Fierce34
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If Shaq plays the 1st and 3rd qtr then that means he's the starter. Can any of you guys post the link here where it says Shaq is now the starter and not JO. But if you will say you're Doc Rivers then I guess there's no point in arguing because you're the coach and I'm the fan. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 12:55 AM EDT
- Fierce34
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : It is not premature to think Shaq can't play with Baby. Doc rarely ever played Perk with Baby, the +/- when he did was terrible. With Shaq they'd be an even worse duo. I bet both O'Neals can play together, just not as good as Shaq w/ KG, or JON w/ KG. If JON is sat down during training camp if/when Shaq outplays him or when Shaq plays his best alongside KG, and O'Neal is told it is best for the team if Shaq starts, but in all close games he will finish b/c he is a 75% FT shooter, and play more mins overall, i'm sure J. O'Neal is not going to complain at this stage in his career. He is here to join a TEAM, and win a title before he retires. He's already making 5x what Shaq is. If the situation change in October makes DA and Doc want to recind a July promise, JON better not care, and if he does, better not let anyone know he does and give 110% regardless.
Posted by rameakapI will believe you if you will tell me you're Doc Rivers pretending to be rameakap. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 12:56 AM EDT
- Fierce34
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:to put it simply- if shaq does not start for us and play approximately the 1st and 3rd quarters then we should reneg on the contract and get rid of him. he is a match for garnett. he is also nothing to have on the floor to finish out games but can eat up minutes in between times. to try to cut up the minutes in some stupid way so that jermane still starts and gets his ego stroked but shaq somehow ends up out there for most all of garnett's minutes is just dumb. ego stroking has never been the celts ways and moreover the players have nearly always been smart enough to realize what's best for the team. if jermaine can't get on board with what's good for the team, i'd be shocked. it's so obvious even an eighth grader could figure it out. in my book, for the regular season you want jermaine and shaq to be as close to a 24/24 minute split as possible and then assuming jermaine has anything left, you ramp him up only as needed in the playoffs in the close games. neither one of these o'neals is good for more than 24 a night in an extended fashion. witness how jermaine ran out of gas harder than a dozen ray allen's in the post season last year- 20% shooting. this thread is a lot of hot air over something that will be conquered before the first game is played. this is just basic common sense of whose skills matches up with who and minute management. shak plays 1 and 3 and jermaine plays quarters 2 and 4............. get it?
Posted by aciemvpPost the link where is says Shaq will play in the 1st and 3rd qtr. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 4:07 AM EDT
- aciemvp
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : Post the link where is says Shaq will play in the 1st and 3rd qtr.
Posted by Fierce34
i don't know what you're trying to prove...........
i am merely stating that it's common sense as to what's good for this team- the blending of skills, the meshing of the body types, etc. it's not just shaq or JO as the starter, it's who works best with the bench unit players. this team has a chance to have a really strong bench this year. more so than in years past.
JON off the bench with davis is going to be a great skills match compared to shak and davis who are redundant in some areas and just not the best match. And that's not even considering the most important thing- who is the best running mate for KG- clearly shak the massive clogger and banger! i don't know why you can't see it. other than the desire to quip cutely. but it's still utter common sense.
prove to me that you know that jermaine will double never super secret ever ever NOT be a starter for the C's. shak wasn't even in the mix, hardly even remotely if he was, when JO signed. if you think these older guys who "want to win one" aren't willing to adapt then you're underestimating things.
if i was JO, i would be more honored to finish out games with the nut cupping bunch then waste my minutes in the 1st or 3rd. the guy does not have 30+ mins a night to give any more. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 6:51 AM EDT
- Fierce34
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : i don't know what you're trying to prove........... i am merely stating that it's common sense as to what's good for this team- the blending of skills, the meshing of the body types, etc. it's not just shaq or JO as the starter, it's who works best with the bench unit players. this team has a chance to have a really strong bench this year. more so than in years past. JON off the bench with davis is going to be a great skills match compared to shak and davis who are redundant in some areas and just not the best match. And that's not even considering the most important thing- who is the best running mate for KG - clearly shak the massive clogger and banger! i don't know why you can't see it. other than the desire to quip cutely. but it's still utter common sense. prove to me that you know that jermaine will double never super secret ever ever NOT be a starter for the C's. shak wasn't even in the mix, hardly even remotely if he was, when JO signed. if you think these older guys who "want to win one" aren't willing to adapt then you're underestimating things. if i was JO, i would be more honored to finish out games with the nut cupping bunch then waste my minutes in the 1st or 3rd. the guy does not have 30+ mins a night to give any more.
Posted by aciemvpWho will start at Center on Oct. 26 against Miami? -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 7:09 AM EDT
- Fierce34
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While I agree that Shaq is a better running mate for KG it does not automatically make Shaq the starter. Shaq and JO have yet to play a single game for the Celtics that's why it's too early to say that Shaq can't play with BBD or JO is not a good partner for KG. Doc can always change the starting C if he thinks it's not working out.The thread is about Shaq being the 6th man. Right now it's looking like Shaq will be the 6th man because Doc and Ainge said so. My point is saying that Shaq will start, because he can't play with BBD or he's a better running mate for KG, is inaccurate. Right now JO is the designated starter according to Doc and Ainge. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 2:06 PM EDT
- aciemvp
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : Who will start at Center on Oct. 26 against Miami?
Posted by Fierce34
theo ratluff obviously
poignant question -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 2:10 PM EDT
- aciemvp
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:Right now JO is the designated starter according to Doc and Ainge.
Posted by Fierce34
yep. oversimplistic perhaps. naismith started the game with peach baskets but they figured out a better way. the celts will also figure out a better way now that their 5 rotation is complete.
and there really is no reason to announce that decision to the public in advance, in fact it could possibly have scouting strategic advantage to stay mum since other teams may waste time preparing for jermaine in the starting 5. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 4:57 PM EDT
- KB24RULZ
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Would'nt that be a crazy shooting team with snaq, baby and rondo on the floor all at once. The Lakers could play Kobe on his own and say to them 'go on, shoot it guys' and pick up the clanks after the shot.
Maybe there should be a poll as to who misses the most free throws this season:
snaq or brick??! -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 6:47 PM EDT
- BirdandCowens
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:Would'nt that be a crazy shooting team with snaq, baby and rondo on the floor all at once. The Lakers could play Kobe on his own and say to them 'go on, shoot it guys' and pick up the clanks after the shot. Maybe there should be a poll as to who misses the most free throws this season: snaq or brick??!
Posted by KB24RULZ
If the lakers make it that far, I like our chances! -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 9:16 PM EDT
- KB24RULZ
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : If the lakers make it that far, I like our chances!
Posted by BirdandCowens
Heard that from celt fans about the 2010 Finals as well, they liked their chances!
How'd that work out for ya? -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 9:42 PM EDT
- Fierce34
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : theo ratluff obviously poignant question
Posted by aciemvpIt's a simple question, who do you think will start at Center for the Cs against the Heat on Oct. 26? -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 9:51 PM EDT
- Fierce34
- Posts: 10102
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : yep. oversimplistic perhaps. naismith started the game with peach baskets but they figured out a better way. the celts will also figure out a better way now that their 5 rotation is complete. and there really is no reason to announce that decision to the public in advance, in fact it could possibly have scouting strategic advantage to stay mum since other teams may waste time preparing for jermaine in the starting 5.
Posted by aciemvpSo what you're saying is it's a misdirection, that Shaq will start on Oct. 26 against the Heat? -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 11:38 PM EDT
- aciemvp
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : It's a simple question, who do you think will start at Center for the Cs against the Heat on Oct. 26?
Posted by Fierce34
shak -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/17/2010 11:52 PM EDT
- Fierce34
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Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/18/2010 12:01 AM EDT
- aciemvp
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : So what you're saying is it's a misdirection, that Shaq will start on Oct. 26 against the Heat?
Posted by Fierce34
one last time- not sure how else to say it- against the heat or whoever- shak is our best starter to mesh with / compliment kg. JON is our best guy to mesh with the bench unit and then finish out games with steadier FT% and some proficiency inside & out. against pretty much any team.
do you think JON at this stage of his career is so focused on himself that he won't do what is right for the team? he just went from close to max contract to MLE and would probably prefer to retire with a ring rather than retire as a proud self-mandated starter as a feather in his cap.
do you think fans are too dum to figure out what's best for the team at the 5?
i don't need the answers, just things for you to contemplate as an independent thinker. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/18/2010 12:14 AM EDT
- Fierce34
- Posts: 10102
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : one last time- not sure how else to say it- against the heat or whoever- shak is our best starter to mesh with / compliment kg. JON is our best guy to mesh with the bench unit and then finish out games with steadier FT% and some proficiency inside & out. against pretty much any team. do you think JON at this stage of his career is so focused on himself that he won't do what is right for the team? he just went from close to max contract to MLE and would probably prefer to retire with a ring rather than retire as a proud self-mandated starter as a feather in his cap. do you think fans are too dum to figure out what's best for the team at the 5? i don't need the answers, just things for you to contemplate as an independent thinker.
Posted by aciemvpAgain it's not what I think about JO or Shaq, it's about believing what Doc and Ainge said. I don't think JO would have a problem if Doc told him that he will come off the bench. But right now Doc and Ainge both said that JO is the starter and Shaq is the backup. It is what it is, it's not my opinion. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/18/2010 12:20 AM EDT
- Fierce34
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As to what I think, I want to see them play first before coming to any conclusion. A 38-year old Shaq is still a 38-year old player even if its name is Shaq. Saying that he's a better running mate for KG remains to be seen. There's no doubt that Shaq will be a good mate but can he still run up and down the court on a nightly basis?Back in Phoenix they wouldn't even let Shaq play in back to back games and he was only 36 years old back then. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/18/2010 12:34 AM EDT
- Fierce34
- Posts: 10102
- First: 12/2/2009
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : one last time- not sure how else to say it- against the heat or whoever- shak is our best starter to mesh with / compliment kg. JON is our best guy to mesh with the bench unit and then finish out games with steadier FT% and some proficiency inside & out. against pretty much any team. do you think JON at this stage of his career is so focused on himself that he won't do what is right for the team? he just went from close to max contract to MLE and would probably prefer to retire with a ring rather than retire as a proud self-mandated starter as a feather in his cap. do you think fans are too dum to figure out what's best for the team at the 5? i don't need the answers, just things for you to contemplate as an independent thinker.
Posted by aciemvpNo matter what we think or say Doc is still the coach. It's either we accept what is reality or be in denial and keep posting about Shaq being the starter on this board. I just support the Celtics, I'm not into what's best for the Celtics. If Ainge and Doc thinks JO should start then so be it. Likewise with Shaq, whatever role Doc gives him I'm all for it. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/18/2010 2:14 AM EDT
- KB24RULZ
- Posts: 318
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : No matter what we think or say Doc is still the coach. It's either we accept what is reality or be in denial and keep posting about Shaq being the starter on this board. I just support the Celtics, I'm not into what's best for the Celtics. If Ainge and Doc thinks JO should start then so be it. Likewise with Shaq, whatever role Doc gives him I'm all for it.
Posted by Fierce34
Perhaps donut carrier?? -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/18/2010 5:28 AM EDT
- ConnectingRod
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : Perhaps donut carrier??
Posted by KB24RULZShaq the donut carrier is 10 times better than Theo Ratliff carrying anything. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/18/2010 11:03 AM EDT
- aciemvp
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man? : But right now Doc and Ainge both said that JO is the starter and Shaq is the backup. It is what it is, it's not my opinion.
Posted by Fierce34
and this statement was made before shack was even remotely a part of the equation -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/18/2010 11:05 AM EDT
- aciemvp
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In Response to Re: Shaq as 6th man?:There's no doubt that Shaq will be a good mate but can he still run up and down the court on a nightly basis? Back in Phoenix they wouldn't even let Shaq play in back to back games and he was only 36 years old back then.
Posted by Fierce34
here's another thought- shak plus rondo and the rest of the starting 5 means less running for shak when rondo is havoc making. that makes shak's role pestering the lane on defense and when we go half court, setting man sized picks and such. -
Re: Shaq as 6th man?
posted at 8/18/2010 3:08 PM EDT
- KB24RULZ
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Put a box of donuts near a high pick and roll spot and aint nothing moving snaquille!