SOME OF THESE GUYS DO NOT FIT THE NEW MODEL

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wicksandrowe. Show wicksandrowe's posts

    SOME OF THESE GUYS DO NOT FIT THE NEW MODEL

    Opening night was an interesting goodbye to static basketball. Say so long to these staples of the Big 3 Era:

    The Ray Allen Get Free After Running a 10-Second Obstacle Course Jumper

    The Paul Pierce Loiter at the Elbow Step-Back Jumper

    The Bass Float and Wait Until Your Man Helps Jumper

    The KG Catch and Shoot 18 Foot Jumper 

    These were all pretty much all based on stationary players with Rondo dribbling. The occasional Jeff Green slash or Bradley baseline cut were exceptions that proved the rule. Mostly, players rarely caught the ball while moving, it was equally rare to see players change sides of the floor, the ball didn't change hands very much, and when it did, it usually stayed in that player's hands for a really long time. 

    Monday night revealed that when the Celtics played well, the ball moved briskly from side to side, (in the air, not via dribble), players displaced one another all over the court, and the ball didn't stick in players' hands. They assisted on 70%+ of made baskets. This looks like the Stevens MO.

    The game also revealed that the team executed that style best when certain players were on the bench. And, conversely, when those same players were on the floor, they did not play well that way.

    Sullinger, Olynyk, Wallace, Crawford (seriously), and Faverani (more seriously) moved the ball and themselves in ways that Green, Bass, Humphries, Lee, and Bradley can't even dream about let alone do. Some guys see it, feel it, have it, and some guys don't. The ball hits the hands, the eyes see the floor, the brain makes all the connections, the ball's out of the hands, either shot, passed, or dribbled. Faverani did it on a loose ball pick-up that he turned into a long lead hockey assist for a layup.

    If a player has it, it all takes mere nano-seconds; if he doesn't, he's Brandon Bass, or Jeff Green, and it takes 3-4-5, (oops, too late) seconds. Same, to a slightly lesser degree, applies to Lee and Bradley. 

    Can the skills needed be improved, enhanced? Most coaches say no. On Monday Lee missed a dunk, a layup, bricked a bunch of shots, jumped in the air and passed to the other team, and didn't defend anyone when it mattered, and was a -16 for the game. Green, in 23 minutes, got 6 points, 3 turnovers, 1 rebound, a -14, and looked winded while Rudy Gay ate his lunch for 17. These guys are 5-6-7 year pros. If not now, when?

    As long as the young core is on the floor along with Wallace, this will be a fun team to watch. Watching Green, Bass, and Lee sleepwalk and stumble, not so much. 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hondorondo. Show hondorondo's posts

    Re: SOME OF THESE GUYS DO NOT FIT THE NEW MODEL

    Very interesting post. It will be interesting to see how well Pressey and Brooks can play the style you refer to. I think a relevant question is what happens if these style of offensive players cannot play reasonable defense? You can only win so often 122-120.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wicksandrowe. Show wicksandrowe's posts

    Re: SOME OF THESE GUYS DO NOT FIT THE NEW MODEL

    In response to hondorondo's comment:

    Very interesting post. It will be interesting to see how well Pressey and Brooks can play the style you refer to. I think a relevant question is what happens if these style of offensive players cannot play reasonable defense? You can only win so often 122-120.



    You're absolutely right. But I don't see a lot of + defenders on the roster no matter what offensive style they use. With efficient shooters like KG, PP, and Ray on offense and KG anchoring the defensive end, sure you could afford to forego movement and be a high turnover, low rebound team. This team doesn't have that luxury. That defensive scheme was a luxury built around KG.

    Bradley's fine. Wallace is +. Bass can hold his own. Humphries will be shaky in the post. Green, like everything else in his portfolio, has qualities that should make him a + defender, but he hasn't been one, and Lee and Bogans are supposed to be 3 and D wings, but I don't see it. Olynyk is defensively challenged, but is smart and mobile enough to become a decent positional/team defender (think Bird). Same with Sullinger and Faverani. 

    In all, average to weak no matter what style they play, and to depend on the offensive skills of Bradley, Bass, Green, Humphries, and Lee only adds another negative and leads to no progress/development of a fresh Celtic identity.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: SOME OF THESE GUYS DO NOT FIT THE NEW MODEL

    Yeah I agree but I'll say that players can definitely improve.

    Brandon Bass is a perfect example. He was so freaking bad a few years ago. He literally couldn't do anything but catch and shoot. But after facing a few years of adversity, I think Brandon has really developed his non catch and shoot game. His defense has improved. His ability to attack the rim has improved. And I think his passing ability and off the ball movements have improved.

     

    Bradley is just a beast. I don't care if he has that instinctual ball movement abilities. The kid can defend. In that last game, did you see him lead DeRozen from the top of the key into the low post help defender (Sully), hand him off to Sully, go behind Sully and block DeRozen from the baseline?

    Avery is a key player to have for the playoffs because he can create stops. That is invaluable.

    On the offensive side, Avery is one of the more active off the ball players. He can also catch and shoot.

     

    Jeff is slow, you're right. He's got to get more aggressive. But I think what we're finding out is that Jeff can be a momentum guy meaning he needs to start of slowly and build up through the entire season to eventually become "Nasty Jeff" in the playoffs. Kinda similar to what Rondo does. A lot of fans HATE it, and you can sympathize with them but I like it. If the goal is to win championships, it kind of makes sense to pace yourself through the regular season and turn it on for the playoffs. I think its very taxing on superstars to "take it to the next level". Think of all the teams out there who are phenominal during the regular season and then are quick outs in the playoffs. They're the one trick Pony teams, like the Nets and the Clippers. They show their entire hand during the season and when that first round starts, the other team is a step ahead. Of course there is also a third kind of playoff team, the hot team who maybe struggled at time during the regular season, not pacing, but struggling and then find a groove at the right time. Hopefully that will be the Celtics this year, maybe.

     

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wicksandrowe. Show wicksandrowe's posts

    Re: SOME OF THESE GUYS DO NOT FIT THE NEW MODEL

    In response to R9R's comment:

    Yeah I agree but I'll say that players can definitely improve.

    Brandon Bass is a perfect example. He was so freaking bad a few years ago. He literally couldn't do anything but catch and shoot. But after facing a few years of adversity, I think Brandon has really developed his non catch and shoot game. His defense has improved. His ability to attack the rim has improved. And I think his passing ability and off the ball movements have improved.

     

    Bradley is just a beast. I don't care if he has that instinctual ball movement abilities. The kid can defend. In that last game, did you see him lead DeRozen from the top of the key into the low post help defender (Sully), hand him off to Sully, go behind Sully and block DeRozen from the baseline?

    Avery is a key player to have for the playoffs because he can create stops. That is invaluable.

    On the offensive side, Avery is one of the more active off the ball players. He can also catch and shoot.

     

    Jeff is slow, you're right. He's got to get more aggressive. But I think what we're finding out is that Jeff can be a momentum guy meaning he needs to start of slowly and build up through the entire season to eventually become "Nasty Jeff" in the playoffs. Kinda similar to what Rondo does. A lot of fans HATE it, and you can sympathize with them but I like it. If the goal is to win championships, it kind of makes sense to pace yourself through the regular season and turn it on for the playoffs. I think its very taxing on superstars to "take it to the next level". Think of all the teams out there who are phenominal during the regular season and then are quick outs in the playoffs. They're the one trick Pony teams, like the Nets and the Clippers. They show their entire hand during the season and when that first round starts, the other team is a step ahead. Of course there is also a third kind of playoff team, the hot team who maybe struggled at time during the regular season, not pacing, but struggling and then find a groove at the right time. Hopefully that will be the Celtics this year, maybe.

     

     

     



    Agreed. Any player can always improve something, but a leopard can't change his spots.

    In that regard, I don't think Avery can ever be an intuitive playmaker with the ball. He's a brilliantly intuitive (and gutty) defender and cutter. Same principle with Brandon. You can actually see him going through options when he catches; at least I hope that's what he's doing. His best results would come with a quick eye fake and then go, skipping the decision-making process completely. So the improvement there is to simply avoid trying to do what you can't do well.

     

    Otherwise, it's unfair to ask him to change his spots. Hopefully these guys can be coached up to be able to maximize their plus qualities and minimize their minuses.

    It's tough, though, telling a veteran pro that he doesn't have the spots he thinks he has. Carmelo Anthony recently was quoted as saying he didn't work on anything this off-season, "My game's set in stone."

     

     
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