Some people do not see the real issue.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    I'm going to be the lone voice of partial disagreement.  I, too, see the problems of Rondo holding the ball way too long, waiting for that one pass that results in a basket instead of the whole team moving the ball.  in a couple of games, he played well offensively, but add to his holding the ball the fact that he has often shot poorly, even on layups.....and the offense suffers.  Paul has been off a LOT lately, too and KG has not been at his best shooting many games.

    So, I've acknowledged the offensive woes.  BUT, if you look at the box score of many of the games where we fell behind, the other team STARTED OUT scoring very well.  We may have held them under 90 for the game because we got serious in the 3rd and 4th quarters, but by then we were way behind because they scored a lot of points in the first quarter.  That is partially a defensive problem as well.  So, I think our early game defense stinks and that's causing a big part of the Celtic's getting behind and having to always fight uphill.

    Evidence:
    Clippers - 60 points in the first half
    Knicks - 51 pts in first half
    New orleans, 51 pts in 1st half
    Golden State, 53 pts in 1st half
    Houston, 62 points in first half

    In each case, we clamped down in the 2nd half, but we let them have too many points early on and it became a fight.  We lost to Memphis but were in the game all the way because they only had 44 points at the half.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickFox17. Show RickFox17's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    I think the issue is how the offense is managed. All too often we let the shot clock run down to 7 seconds while ROndo dribbles the ball near the FT line. You cant just dribble and hope someone pops open. Much has been said that this is ROndos team... and to a degree it is When he drives agressively, he wreaks havoc on defenses.. Hes capable of beating most defenders off the dribble and getting to the hoop.. HE gets layups or causes mulitple switches on defenses when opens up people... He hasnt been doing too much of that lately... He did so in the KNicks game and some early in last nights game...  But in general, hes settling for pounding the ball into the floor for 15-20 secs....faking drives and pulling it out to stand around and wait....wait...wait If hes not gonna be aggressive, Doc should have a tlak with him or maybe sit him out cause hes exhausted. I dont know why this is going on but to my eye, this has been stagnating our offense for a while
    Posted by Karllost



    I agree and even Tommy H  said it last nite when Rondo was just pounding the ball by the 3 point line  He said DO SOMETHING!!!  Rondo is just running and directing traffic for 20 seconds and then we get a poor or desparation shot.  Rondo needs to break the defense down />I think West can do it and can pull up for jumpers and he can shoot much better than Rondo
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dirty52. Show dirty52's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    rondo must be going through some personal problems
    Posted by walsh513


    Maybe Delonte is hooking up with Rondo's Mom
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from basketbert. Show basketbert's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue. : So true.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Yes, yes, yes. More inside play by those guys AND more aggressiveness by RR.
    Very dangerous to become too dependent on outside scoring.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    I still think this team will turn it on.  Rondo hasnt been himself, but by many media accounts he's hurting and still playing through it. 

    This could be an all or nothing playoff run.  If healthy, this team can beat anyone.  If hurting, they are ripe to be plucked. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from champs08. Show champs08's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    Jeff Green has an inside game and also can get his own shot. Need to see him play more minutes.
     
    He's a scorer who isn't exhausted! Green and Delonte are about the only two in that category at present!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    This team will go nowhere without a defensive bigman down low.  Period. 
    Ainge made this decision, and now we all have to live with it.  It's going to take near-perfect offensive performance in the playoffs for the C's to get anywhere, because they no longer play low post defense.  If Shaq actually does come back, this changes, but in the meantime the Celtics need to figure something out.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LiJere. Show LiJere's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    I think all the above posts are appropriate.  I've watched many games this year, and haven't seen the PG's walking the ball up court.  With Rondo's speed, and Jeff Green they should have more fast break points than they have.  I don't know if this is mismanagement, or just the fact that DOC wants to play slow.
    It's just a shame this team had a big lead on the BULLS and HEAT for HCA, and now they are struggling with every game.  At least the BULLS begin every game with a fierce tenacity (this is what a good team does), putting pressure on their opponent early; whereas as the CELTICS mope along, walking the ball upcourt instead of running, and consistently falling behing 10-20 points early.  I can RONDO pounding the ball into the floor and wasting time off the shot-clock if he was a scorer, but he's not and it's becoming very frustrating with every game.  I wish DOC would consider benching RONDO and give the other PG's a shot, and watch how our offense flows.  I believe DOC is afraid to admit RONDO really isn't that good of a player; hell I don't even play BB, but with the BIG 3 I could certainly rake up assists as well.  Imagine ROSE or PAUL playing with the BIG 3 (real PG's).  RONDO needs to work on his shot over the summer, because it's getting apparent that he is a weak link, and I really don't think all those assists he gets are accurate.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    It just hit me, if the offensive rythym is off, and it is, that's on the coach and the point guard. If you are objective, you can't give Doc and/or Rondo credit when the team's offense is working, but call people "haters" for noticing when it isn't and tying that to the point guard. Now, the truth is it's bigger than that, but the point guard does steer the ship, and pounding the rock rather than passing and starting a play early ain't gonna  do it. Even DJ when he would walk the ball up court in the mid 80s got into a set with 14-18 seconds left; but if the point guard doesn't make the initial pass until there's single digits on the shot clock, the offense is surely going to be out of sinch. And, that's a big part of what's going on.
    Rondo taking that floater with 15 seconds left was bad basketball; even if he makes it. Why? CPP, the best scorer on the team was hot, and the ball should have swung to him, end of story. And, if Paul was doubled to Ray, and if Ray couldn't get open to KG.
    Doc Rivers is a brilliant motivator, and I think he has his hands full.
    About Rondo, I love his competitiveness, which might be the highest on the team, but his injuries have exposed how he has relied on athleticism (also the highest on the team when he's healthy) to cover make up for some undisplined play on both sides of the court.
    I'm wishing Doc the best in tightening this crew up for the stretch.
    Go Celtics!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    There is a very simple reason why the recent O struggles, execution. Defense is 90% effort and fundementals and 10% talent. Offense is 50% talent and 45% execution and % extra effort. That is why defensive players aren,t usually good all around offensive players. On offense 99% of the focus is on execution. When you have as many players new to the systems on both ends the  half court set plays are going to be the last thing to gel. Even if you have a minimal grasp on the defense of a team you can make up for it by effort and fundementals. Where as on offense knowing where and when is as much about timing than just position. If you watch the possesions where it looks like Rondo and PP or RA pass it back and forth is more than likely resetting plays because of improper setting up by the off the ball players, a pick not being set at the right time or backcut  being made too late/or early etc etc. Too many fans think all a coach has to do is roll out the ball and divide up minutes. The fact is at this level of talent Xs and Os are much more important. I'm seeing signs of improvement and I think the next few games we will see better offensive output.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue. : So I have been saying they have one of the worst and most dysfunctional offenses all year and all of a sudden it is a surprise? They are in the bottom third of points scored, whenever they play a team with a good defense they really have a hard time scoring and somehow, some way, in some strange universe and only on BDC it is not because they have a point guard that cannot shoot, will not shoot, cannot finish, will not go to the foul line, and pounds the ball into the floor until he guarantees himself an assist....... why and how on earth is this new?
    Posted by TheDUDDER


    Because for the first time all year their offensive effciency is down. You see the goal was never to be the golden state warrriors. If you want a high scoring team like that, you can root for them in this years lottery. 

    The goal was to methodically score in an effcient way, while playing defense. it has kept us in championship contention for four years now. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue. : I agree and even Tommy H  said it last nite when Rondo was just pounding the ball by the 3 point line  He said DO SOMETHING!!!  Rondo is just running and directing traffic for 20 seconds and then we get a poor or desparation shot.  Rondo needs to break the defense down />I think West can do it and can pull up for jumpers and he can shoot much better than Rondo
    Posted by RickFox17


    Well, the Celtics do run a set offense. It's the point guards job to get everyone set up. If guys are in the wrong spots the point guard has to get them setup, because just attacking will lead to disaster and turn overs.

    That is a team offense issues and I attribute it to lack of practice time while doc is resting the team.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    Dudder, So what are you saying we can't win? Spit it out.
    Posted by concord27


    Mostly he is saying he doesn't understand basketball. Want to know who the top scoring team in the league is? It's the Minnesota Timberwolves.  A team that has less wins than the spurs have losses.

    Cleveland isn't very far behind either.  Dudder doesn't understand that that there are more phases to the game of basketball than shooting. That is a big part of his Rondo attack. You see if Rondo stopped playing defense, stopped passing and rebound and just concetrated on jacking up shots all day. Dudder would love him, because Rondo would be scoring. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from beemrdon52. Show beemrdon52's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    Starters are tired, period. Thanks Doc!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from beemrdon52. Show beemrdon52's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    And thanks Danny.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LAKER-Troll. Show LAKER-Troll's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    tompenny, would not all of those weaknesses still be better than to have a team that is crying and hurt because their brother got traded?

    Surprised
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Some people do not see the real issue.:
    For some who are criticizing the Celtics interior defense and toughness on the defensive end that has not been the case over the last 8 games. I know at times people get dunked on and we have seen layups but let's look at a true number. The Celtic's have been giving up 82.5 points per game over the last 8 games. That is incredible. Only twice in that time period has anyone scored over 90. The problem is the Celtic's cant score anymore. It is the offense that is killing them. It could be many things like turnovers, lack of rebounding, and taking poor shots at the end of the shot clock. We know they don't take many shots during the course of the game. But the problem has not been the D.
    Posted by calvinator


    Brilliant assessment, I have been saying it for two years - good thing they have a great pass first point guard.........
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    In Response to Some people do not see the real issue. : Brilliant assessment, I have been saying it for two years - good thing they have a great pass first point guard.........
    Posted by TheDUDDER


    Yeah, and it has been wrong every time you've said it. 

    The top scoring team in the league is the second worst. The timberwolves. The Celtics have one of the most efcient offenses in the league and it doesn't hurt their defense. 


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    Starters are tired, period. Thanks Doc!
    Posted by beemrdon52



    Yes, thanks, Doc for getting to the second best record in the league with the following players out:  Shaq, JON, Perk for 1/2 the season, Delonte West 2/3 of the season and with these players hurt:  Rondo and KG missing 9 to 11 games each, Wafer missing weeks, Semih having a shoulder that kept him out a lot as well as BBD playing on a bad knee and then missing time........ not to mention Danny changing the team on your SIGNIFICANTLY so that you had new guys joining every week at the time of the year when there's a game every other day and no practice time + your point guard playing like crap.

    how dare you, Doc, not rest your starters more and have Nate Robinson play more and Luke play more so.  Wow - what a terrible job that coach is doing!!!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    If the problem is all offense, then why do other teams post these kinds of numbers on us in the first half of games since the all star break?

    Clippers - 60 points in the first half
    Knicks - 51 pts in first half
    New orleans, 51 pts in 1st half
    Golden State, 53 pts in 1st half
    Houston, 62 points in first half

    We let teams have too many points early and then clamp down the 2nd half.  Maybe we have some defensive issues in the first half of games that digs a big hole that's often too difficult to dig out of!


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyCBoston. Show DeweyCBoston's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    I thought we traded for offense? smh
    Posted by KGLove


    IF Doc plays Green 30 minutes per game (#6 man), I can see him scoring 15-30 PPG, defense is good, we NEED HIM now.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyCBoston. Show DeweyCBoston's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    [QUOTE]Should have kept Perk. His perfect picks, great hands, post game and ability to take people away from the rim with his jumpshot would do wonders for the offense.
    Posted by tompenny[/QUOT

    Tom, FYI PERK IS INJURED OUT FOR SEASON again...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue. :
    Should have kept Perk. His perfect picks, great hands, post game and ability to take people away from the rim with his jumpshot would do wonders for the offense. Posted by tompenny[/QUOT Tom, FYI PERK IS INJURED OUT FOR SEASON again...
    Posted by DeweyCBoston


    He is? he is listed as the starter for the thunder tonight. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Some people do not see the real issue.

    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue.:
    In Response to Re: Some people do not see the real issue. :
    Should have kept Perk. His perfect picks, great hands, post game and ability to take people away from the rim with his jumpshot would do wonders for the offense. Posted by tompenny[/QUOT Tom, FYI PERK IS INJURED OUT FOR SEASON again...
    Posted by DeweyCBoston


    Link??   I can't find any announcement on this.
     
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