Spurs fined $250,000

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    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    And we sit around discussing the NBA all the time,  advertise it with friends at work, etc.  If you are here posting,  you are supporting the NBA in some shape form or fashion.  Period.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    I support the game of basketball! A game I love to watch, play, discuss, analyze, etc.

    The NBA is a great basketball league, represented by the worlds greatest players!

    NBA charities have done allot of good in the town I currently live in! They have stepped in to build houses for the homeless, renovate parks and recreation centers, educate youths about the perills of drugs, and the list goes on!

    Is it a perfect league, No! Does the league do more harm than good, No!

    In my opinion, the NBA supports the greatest game ever invented, basketball! From a consumers point of view, I could think of allot worse things to spend my money on!

     
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    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's not about how competitive the game was, it's about fans wanting to watch Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili vs. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. Simple as that.

    Easy for us fans to say, we're not the ones paying top dollar only to find out you'll be watching Patty Mills and Nando De Colo.

    [/QUOTE]

    The great irony of the "it is about the fans" argument is that the Spurs have always had the reputation of being boring.  During their title run ratings suffered because they weren't a big fan draw but now the fans, in Miami of all places, feel cheated because Duncan, Parker, etc... didn't play?  I don't buy it.  Heat fans go to see Lebron, Wade, Allen and Bosh not the opposing roster. 

    If anything the Spurs picked the right night to rest their stars.  Wizards fans or Cavs fans might acually go to see the Spurs stars but definitely not heat fans. 

    Bottom line is the Spurs are within their right to manage their team as they see fit.  If the Spurs are tired/injured when the play-offs role around and they lose in the 1st round, the Spurs lose TONS of money by missing out on all the revenue they would earn in additional play-off games and NBA isn't cutting them any checks to make up those losses.

     

     

     

     
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    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Like I said, everything is interconnected. If the Spurs are not making money, the NBA is not making money. What do you think the BRI, Basketball Related Income, is for?

    Remember, the NBA only had 66 games last season, instead of 82, because of the BRI. 

    It was a battle of the top teams in the east and west. Saying that Lebron, Wade, and Bosh vs. Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili is just the same as Lebron, Wade, and Bosh vs. Nando De Colo, Patty Mills, and Tiago Splitter is simply not true.

    Teams can rest their players in April when the playoffs is just around the corner. But resting players in November?

    [/QUOTE]

     The NBA is making money either way.  If the Spurs are playing in the WCF they are making money, if they are not playing they are not making money.  Therefore the Spurs, from a business and competitve standpoint, have the right to manage their team in the way that they feel gives them the best chance to win aka make the most money. 

    I don't really see how BRI plays into this.  The players were told by management not to play, they weren't sitting out on their own.  The game was a selll-out, so the Heat didn't lose any revenue. If the Spurs had won, should they have been fined?

     

     
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    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, even if the Spurs won they still should be fined.

    The BRI was about money, how much the owners or the players will get. They fought over it for so long, the season couldn't start on time.

    How is that significant to this issue?

    The players were fighting over money and they want to get paid for not playing? 

    It's called being professional.

    NBA players are paid to play. Now they want get paid even if they don't play?

    Again, being professional.

    And management didn't tell the players not to play. It was Popovich who decided to not play the players.

    [/QUOTE]

    "Being Professional"?  They were told by their coach not to play, isn't doing what your coach asks part of being professional?  You make it sound like they refused to play. 

    The Spurs have the right to manage their team as they see fit, you don't agree with that.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    We just disagree.

    I will say though, it is false to say "the players refused to play" or that they were "no shows".  They were sent home by the coach, a move the Spurs have done in the past. 

    So if those four sat on the bench for the game then the Heat fans would've got their money's worth?  Gimme a break.

    Popovich isn't management but you and I both  know his word is the only word that matters in that organization.

    If you're going to cut and paste ESPN stuff at least be balanced.  Like how about the Stern quote from 2010 when he says "  "no conclusion reached, other than a number of teams thought it should be at the sole discretion of the team, the coach, the general manager, and I think it's fair to say I agree with that, unless that discretion is abused."

     

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We just disagree.

    I will say though, it is false to say "the players refused to play" or that they were "no shows".  They were sent home by the coach, a move the Spurs have done in the past. 

    So if those four sat on the bench for the game then the Heat fans would've got their money's worth?  Gimme a break.

    Popovich isn't management but you and I both  know his word is the only word that matters in that organization.

    If you're going to cut and paste ESPN stuff at least be balanced.  Like how about the Stern quote from 2010 when he says "  "no conclusion reached, other than a number of teams thought it should be at the sole discretion of the team, the coach, the general manager, and I think it's fair to say I agree with that, unless that discretion is abused."

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It was disrespectful when the players went home instead of sitting on the bench. 

    We all don't want to be disrespected. 

    Popovich disrespected the NBA.

    It wasn't the players decision not to play, true. But is sure looked liked it when all 4 players were not present on the bench. Injured players still sit on the bench even when they're not wearing uniforms, right?

    [/QUOTE]


    The players not sitting on the bench was disrespectful to who? So if the players had sat on the bench would the Spurs have been fined?

    Popovich thumbed his nose at Stern, and Stern reacted like Stern reacts.  It was the 7th game of the road trip and the 2nd back to back in a week.  I'd hope Doc would do the same thing.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Try slapping your boss in the face for no apparent reason and let's see how he or she reacts.

    [/QUOTE]


    Stern is not the boss.  Stern works on behalf of the owners.  This is why Stern imposing this fine on his own is a joke.  The owners should vote.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    Interesting take on this topic:

    Click here to find out more! Did Popovich, or Stern, sit those players? November, 30, 2012 NOV 30 12:01 PM ET AbbottBy Henry Abbott
    ESPN.com
    Archive
    Gregg Popovich 
    Pedro Portal/Getty Images/Getty Images With his record, no one can accuse Gregg Popovich of not trying to win as much as possible.
    Six times more likely. Research shows that serious injuries are six times more likely in professional soccer players who play twice a week instead of once because:
    • Without adequate training, practice and rest, experts say fatigue causes a decrease in both cognitive ability and joint stability, which is why fatigued athletes get injured far more often.
    • Three days isn't long enough to recover from important high-intensity conditioning work. Tightly bunched games force players to choose among the evils of skipping conditioning or playing tired, which both increase injury.
    • Injuries are much more likely in games than in practice, making games a poor place to do your conditioning work.
    • Strategic rest is part of any long-term training program in any sport, which is part of the reason the NBA's best coaches (like Phil Jackson) are always talking about rest.

    I don't know if the Spurs read this exact study from the American Journal of Sports Medicine, but there are lots more like it, and clearly San Antonio knows a thing or two about valuing rest in a league that plays far more than twice a week. With strategic rests long part of its routine, San Antonio has been valuing rest more than any other team for more than a decade. 

    Which is smart. There's a reason owners recently voted Spurs owner Peter Holt chairman of the NBA's board of governors. The Spurs do just about everything right. Perhaps the smartest thing they have done is to entrust managing the basketball team to Gregg Popovich who, thankfully, doesn't do things like everybody else does. 

    Those little differences are his genius. Since Popovich took over, the Spurs have won more games than anybody in the NBA, even though he hasn't had Phil Jackson-like wonder rosters, Knicks-like spending or a Heat-like free agency haul. The Spurs have won with one sound decision after another, night after night, week after week, draft after draft, timeout after timeout, year after year. 

    The NBA, a league that would love to have all of its Derrick Roses and Steve Nashes at their best more games a year, should ask Popovich to teach seminars on keeping basketball teams healthy and functioning. 

    "The strategic resting of particular players on particular nights is within the discretion of the teams," deputy commissioner Adam Silver told NBA.com last April during the lockout-shortened season. "And Gregg Popovich in particular is probably the last coach that I would second-guess." 
    Stern To Sanction Spurs?

    David Stern's decision to punish the Spurs reveals a clear double standard.Hollinger Insider

    More on ESPN.com
    • Stein: Pop's future with Team USA
    • TrueHoop: Pop or Stern sit players?
    • Wallace/Dime: Spurs in the spotlight
    • Thorpe: Popovich made right call Insider
    • Windhorst: Will players strike back?


    Agreed on all points. 

    In fact, a HoopIdea: The league should have people like Popovich weigh in on how they might tweak the league's schedule in accordance with the best injury prevention know-how in the world. Popovich evidently sees tremendous value in removing the two or three most injury-prone games from his player' schedules. Could having more stars healthy in the playoffs really be as simple as shortening the season by a game or three? That'd be a great trade. Would going even further help even more? 

    Meanwhile, instead of lionizing Popovich for his smart long-term thinking, the league is punishing him in the hopes he'll fall into line and play his guys like NBA coaches have always played them: close to 40 minutes a night until injuries make it so they can play no more. 

    What's increasingly clear, however, is that "the way it has always been done" is dumber than ever. For one thing, there's better research showing what causes injuries, and "toughing it out" through every night of a dense schedule is a rich part of the equation. 

    In addition, the league has changed. With the banishment of hand-checking and the allowance of zone defenses, Tom Thibodeau-style help defenses are the state of the art. This is great for fans -- it creates a lot of movement. Offenses that just pound the ball as everyone stands around aren't working very well, which was the point of the rule changes. But it makes more work for players. Now playing defense means rushing all over the court as part of a five-man shape-shifting amoeba, instead of standing next to a man watching somebody else dribble. Minutes on the court are understandably more tiring than they used to be for top players. 

    Since all that began, playing your best players long minutes night in and night out has become poor strategy. The more you dig in (and people way smarter than me have looked), the clearer the picture. The more we learn about how to keep players functioning at their best -- and who's against that? -- the more smarty-pants tacticians like Popovich are forced, by David Stern's schedule, to make unpopular decisions. 

    Stern didn't sit the Spurs' stars on Thursday, but his schedule did, even if that doesn't feel natural to most of us. 

    We all understand the value of short-term rest. LeBron James is the best player in the world, and he's in his prime. And yet for nine whole valuable nationally televised minutes of Thursday night's win over the Spurs, Erik Spoelstra kept him on the bench. Of course James could have played 48 minutes. How dare Spoelstra do that? It might have even helped the Heat put the Spurs away earlier. 

    But we all know why Spoelstra didn't do that: It's asking too much. James is central to all the Heat's hopes and dreams, and he'd pay the price eventually, either in injury or fatigue. Forty-eight minutes is too many. 

    The same is true of 82 games. That between Popovich and Stern, only one man has embraced that reality and acted on it is no condemnation of the coach.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    In response to BCSP's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Interesting take on this topic:

    Click here to find out more! Did Popovich, or Stern, sit those players? November, 30, 2012 NOV 30 12:01 PM ET AbbottBy Henry Abbott
    ESPN.com
    Archive

    Gregg Popovich 
    Pedro Portal/Getty Images/Getty Images With his record, no one can accuse Gregg Popovich of not trying to win as much as possible.
    Six times more likely. Research shows that serious injuries are six times more likely in professional soccer players who play twice a week instead of once because:

    • Without adequate training, practice and rest, experts say fatigue causes a decrease in both cognitive ability and joint stability, which is why fatigued athletes get injured far more often.
    • Three days isn't long enough to recover from important high-intensity conditioning work. Tightly bunched games force players to choose among the evils of skipping conditioning or playing tired, which both increase injury.
    • Injuries are much more likely in games than in practice, making games a poor place to do your conditioning work.
    • Strategic rest is part of any long-term training program in any sport, which is part of the reason the NBA's best coaches (like Phil Jackson) are always talking about rest.


    I don't know if the Spurs read this exact study from the American Journal of Sports Medicine, but there are lots more like it, and clearly San Antonio knows a thing or two about valuing rest in a league that plays far more than twice a week. With strategic rests long part of its routine, San Antonio has been valuing rest more than any other team for more than a decade. 

    Which is smart. There's a reason owners recently voted Spurs owner Peter Holt chairman of the NBA's board of governors. The Spurs do just about everything right. Perhaps the smartest thing they have done is to entrust managing the basketball team to Gregg Popovich who, thankfully, doesn't do things like everybody else does. 

    Those little differences are his genius. Since Popovich took over, the Spurs have won more games than anybody in the NBA, even though he hasn't had Phil Jackson-like wonder rosters, Knicks-like spending or a Heat-like free agency haul. The Spurs have won with one sound decision after another, night after night, week after week, draft after draft, timeout after timeout, year after year. 

    The NBA, a league that would love to have all of its Derrick Roses and Steve Nashes at their best more games a year, should ask Popovich to teach seminars on keeping basketball teams healthy and functioning. 

    "The strategic resting of particular players on particular nights is within the discretion of the teams," deputy commissioner Adam Silver told NBA.com last April during the lockout-shortened season. "And Gregg Popovich in particular is probably the last coach that I would second-guess." 
    Stern To Sanction Spurs?

    David Stern's decision to punish the Spurs reveals a clear double standard.Hollinger Insider

    More on ESPN.com
    • Stein: Pop's future with Team USA
    • TrueHoop: Pop or Stern sit players?
    • Wallace/Dime: Spurs in the spotlight
    • Thorpe: Popovich made right call Insider
    • Windhorst: Will players strike back?


    Agreed on all points. 

    In fact, a HoopIdea: The league should have people like Popovich weigh in on how they might tweak the league's schedule in accordance with the best injury prevention know-how in the world. Popovich evidently sees tremendous value in removing the two or three most injury-prone games from his player' schedules. Could having more stars healthy in the playoffs really be as simple as shortening the season by a game or three? That'd be a great trade. Would going even further help even more? 

    Meanwhile, instead of lionizing Popovich for his smart long-term thinking, the league is punishing him in the hopes he'll fall into line and play his guys like NBA coaches have always played them: close to 40 minutes a night until injuries make it so they can play no more. 

    What's increasingly clear, however, is that "the way it has always been done" is dumber than ever. For one thing, there's better research showing what causes injuries, and "toughing it out" through every night of a dense schedule is a rich part of the equation. 

    In addition, the league has changed. With the banishment of hand-checking and the allowance of zone defenses, Tom Thibodeau-style help defenses are the state of the art. This is great for fans -- it creates a lot of movement. Offenses that just pound the ball as everyone stands around aren't working very well, which was the point of the rule changes. But it makes more work for players. Now playing defense means rushing all over the court as part of a five-man shape-shifting amoeba, instead of standing next to a man watching somebody else dribble. Minutes on the court are understandably more tiring than they used to be for top players. 

    Since all that began, playing your best players long minutes night in and night out has become poor strategy. The more you dig in (and people way smarter than me have looked), the clearer the picture. The more we learn about how to keep players functioning at their best -- and who's against that? -- the more smarty-pants tacticians like Popovich are forced, by David Stern's schedule, to make unpopular decisions. 

    Stern didn't sit the Spurs' stars on Thursday, but his schedule did, even if that doesn't feel natural to most of us. 

    We all understand the value of short-term rest. LeBron James is the best player in the world, and he's in his prime. And yet for nine whole valuable nationally televised minutes of Thursday night's win over the Spurs, Erik Spoelstra kept him on the bench. Of course James could have played 48 minutes. How dare Spoelstra do that? It might have even helped the Heat put the Spurs away earlier. 

    But we all know why Spoelstra didn't do that: It's asking too much. James is central to all the Heat's hopes and dreams, and he'd pay the price eventually, either in injury or fatigue. Forty-eight minutes is too many. 

    The same is true of 82 games. That between Popovich and Stern, only one man has embraced that reality and acted on it is no condemnation of the coach.

    [/QUOTE]


    Thank you! That is the whole thing in my opinion, the Spurs have every right to protect their players.  Did Bud Selig fine the Nationals for shutting down Strasburg in August. Nope, because there is evidence that says pitchers coming off Tommy John surgury should be kept to a pitch count.

     

     
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    Re: Spurs fined $250,000

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Based on what we know now, the fact that the Spurs not only rested four starters for a marquee game, but flew them home that morning feels like a slap in the face, and seems to be in line with the abuse of discretion Stern was talking about.

    [/QUOTE]


    i'm not buying it- duncan, ginobli are training room permanents for getting tweeked back into shape.  5 games in 7 nights on the road is arguably inane scheduling by the league and then to finish out the string against MIAMI- you are looking at the wrong end of "who" actually "made a statement" here- STERN DID.


    by having the spurs worn out like an old shoe by 5 games in 7 nights and then having the last of those games being against Miami- do you honestly think that was just the luck of the draw, or do you think angry little 5 foot 8 david stern planned that just for SAS and Popovich?

    i would have flown the starters home too

     
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