START GREEN, really

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from usa4life. Show usa4life's posts

    START GREEN, really

    After the big 4, Green is the next most talented player.
    Talent wins games.

    Doc just needs to belive in Jeff Green.

    Why it will work:
    With Green on the floor, the offense is spread and Rondo will be able to walk into the paint. Do you really think that CB can keep Rondo in front of him?

    Spacing is very important.

    If the Defense can get a steal, then Green can break with Rondo.
    This also opens up the Paint for Pierce to post.

    As for the defense, you just play passing lanes and count on deflections. Green, Rondo, and Garnett have the long arms to make this SYLE of defense work.

    Doc just needs to think differently with Perk gone and Shaq out.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MinnesotaCelticsFan. Show MinnesotaCelticsFan's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    Starting Green would be as bad as the Perkins trade on team morale. This is the last charge of this version of the Celtics. Enjoy the ride.

    Green has proven nothing accept that he is athletic.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tabuckiss. Show Tabuckiss's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    Sure. Start Green over our 9 time all star, clutch performing NBA finals winning captain.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from genaro008. Show genaro008's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    I am so glad most posters are no GMs  they would trade away everyone after 2 games. Pedroia was hated and Terry showed patience with him then he was a MVP I wouls never start Green over Ray this year. If it was something he agreed to at the start of the season that be different. I do think we need to rotate the bench with the startes so we have a go to guy on the floor
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    i think his idea is to start green instead of JO, Baby of kristic.  Not that its a good idea....   
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    In Response to Re: START GREEN, really:
    [QUOTE]I am so glad most posters are no GMs  they would trade away everyone after 2 games. Pedroia was hated and Terry showed patience with him then he was a MVP I wouls never start Green over Ray this year. If it was something he agreed to at the start of the season that be different. I do think we need to rotate the bench with the startes so we have a go to guy on the floor
    Posted by genaro008[/QUOTE]

    I hope not too many people take the crap that is said on these forums seriously.

    Theres no logical reasoning you can come up with starting Green. Barring an amazing playoff performance throughout I don't think Green will start breaking out till next year when everything doesn't feel rushed for him. Just hearing him talk you can see whats being placed on him after being on a team that had hopes of a championship but is totally fine with coming in third place. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    Starting Green and sitting Ray not Pierce might really be interesting. With Pierce and Green out there it would create mismatches all over the court against all the teams we play.  Doc of course should have tried this while he was giving games away the last two weeks.  It is just not in him to do this.  He dumped Perk but never Ray. Ray might end up getting better shots and playing at the end of the game.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from genaro008. Show genaro008's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    Its not that I dont think it could be positive we just been through to many changes in a short time and too many players still learning the system. I jjst think now is not the time to keep implimenting new twists
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    NO....don't start Green. Let him learn how to play team defense first and use him when Pierce needs help or others need rest.  Give him 25 to 30 minutes a game.  Make him the 6th or 7th man on the team.  But, don't lose faith in the guys that got us here and who still are some of the biggest threats in the league.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from CeltsSox. Show CeltsSox's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    Apparrently, my Celtics fan brothers forget the strategy with Hondo and folks like Frank Ramsey. Red  believed in the value of a powerful "sixth man" in order to add energy and keep a balance of talent throughout the game. Ray can be an incredibly important stabelization to what Doc has called a disappointing 2nd unit in the last few years. Let's not forget the great value that Posey offered as the 2008 Hondo type "sixth man".

    I'll take the heat from my Celtics fan brothers, however I think it's a great idea to let Jeff start and let Ray come in and energize the second unit. Jeff appears far more comfortable as a starter and Ray is mature enough to realize that his role may actually be more important as the "sixth man". One thing for sure, Ray can get the shots we need and prevent BBD from trying too hard to be an outside threat.

    Good idea!!!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    CeltsSox, Ray DOES play with the second team a lot.  He's on the floor with BBD and when that happens, other teams aren't stupid.  They REALLY push up on Ray and that's one of the reasons that BBD is wide open.  Ray is NOT a 'get your own shot' kind of guy.  Therefore, his play with the second team has not been great.  Remember, next to Rondo, he's playing the most minutes and MANY of those minutes are coming with Paul, KG, Shaq/JON/Krstic on the bench.  It hasn't been met with great success!

    Your idea may work as Ray gets older, but right now, Ray is a starter and the last thing this team needs is yet another change that the team has to learn in the midst of the playoffs.

    This is NOT the time for experimentation.  This is the time for the Celts to do what they do best in crunch time.  Watch it work.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CeltsSox. Show CeltsSox's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    Celtfan4life, obviously I hope you are right. I still believe the Celtics, with or without Shaq, can go all the way. I was really looking at the serving the "greater good". That is I think Jeff Green would be far more effective with playing with the starters since the pressure to be the leader would diminish. Therefore, he can let his instincts allow him to reach his potential. On the other hand, Ray, the professional he is, can make the adjustments to become the scoring leader for the second unit. You are right he is playing significant minutes with the second unit, however I wonder if that is part of the problem. Last years after his performance in Game 2 in the finals, it looked like Ray would carry the team throughout the series. Unfortunately, he wore himself out and he lost his stroke. Two more 3's by the Ray we all know and love in Game 7 would have made a huge difference.

    I'm just hoping we don't wear down the Big Four with the Knicks where Jeff Green becomes a no-show. Number 18 is definitely a reality with or without Shaq.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from usa4life. Show usa4life's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    Ray needs to start as he is too type A. He is not a guy that likes changes.

    Green has been a starter and is used to starting.

    JO can do either.

    I just don't like the slow plodding lineup with the big 4 and JO. The lineup is too slow, too predictable.

    Now replace JO with Green and the lineup is now dynamic with the ability to fast break and score in bunches.

    Sub in Baby and JO with West.
    When JO is in, Rondo is out. This keeps 4 shooters on the floor and the spacing adequate.
    West is not really a slasher, more of a pull up shooter. Having the paint packed with JO down low, won't really be a problem.
    It is a problem for Rondo however.

    I'd give Wafer a few looks early in the series with the knicks as he may help against the Heat.

    Ultimately, it comes down to confidence building. Doc must build confidence in guys like Green and Wafer to be able to make a title run. Otherwise, we will run out of gas at the finish line.

    Now if we were facing the Lakers or Magic, JO would be a must. However, it is more likely we won't even face these two teams.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CeltsSox. Show CeltsSox's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    usa4life, I completely agree that Doc has to instill confidence in the group. We saw what happened after Doc read Kris the riot act after missing a defensive assignment. He lost his confidence and disappeared. I like your ideal about Jeff Green starting where KG would probably play center. However, I'm not the Celtics have had serious issues with rebounding. We also have to be very careful about not burning up KG with relying too much on him doing it all. On the other hand, against the Knicks, the experiment may just add the energy the team needs. I agree with you about Ray's "creature of habit" approach. However, I would think he may welcome an opportunity to get the same minutes, but come in against the other team's second unit. However, I probably agree with Celticsfan4life that trying to change things at the last minute may cause too much of a problem. However, I sure hope that Doc offers some creativity and strategies. For example, Rondo took it upon himself to guard LeBron in the last game the C's beat Miami. That's the type of in-game creativity that Doc needs to add. In my humble opinion.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    In Response to Re: START GREEN, really:
    [QUOTE]Sure. Start Green over our 9 time all star, clutch performing NBA finals winning captain.
    Posted by Tabuckiss[/QUOTE]


    I think he was saying move PP to the 2, and Green to the three.  Which would actually make us bigger and more athletic, and then would allow Ray ray to get the bulk of the second unit.  I kinda like the idea to be honest.  West, Ray, PP/Green stay on the court, BB, JO makes a pretty good second unit.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from edcap99. Show edcap99's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    Starting Green would be advisable if he were inserted into the starting lineup when he came to the Celtics. As it is now, Green is still having difficulty finding his spots on the floor. To start him now, would only ruin the chemistry of the starters who already have to adjust to the recent addition of Jermaine O'Neal.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    I hope all you posters on this topic will come back and discuss this after tonight's game.  You still think Ray shouldn't be in there?   You still think HOF'er Ray Allen isn't the starting shooting guard?


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CeltsSox. Show CeltsSox's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    Celtsfan4life, inserting Jeff Green into the starting lineup is actually a compliment to Ray. He doesn't have to play any less minutes and can certainly be in the game at the end. I think the game proved my point. Jeff Green is very uncomfortable coming off the bench and was not as productive as he can and should be. I think Ray can be a Hondo and come into the game off the bench and finish the game. The Celtics won the game, however Jeff Green has to far more productive if the C's are going to go deep. Hondo is one of the all
    time great Celtics. His ability to come off the bench and prevent what happened tonight was a key to that generation's success. In my opinion the Celtics need some offensive help on that second unit to prevent the 2nd quarter issues that caused the C's to go down by 12.  As an example, the same thing happened against the Heat last week, however the unlike the Knicks once the C's let the Heat get up by 10, it's a huge problem. I would still think about some time of adjustment if I were Doc. However, the C's won and Lakers lost. It's a good day in any regard.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    In Response to Re: START GREEN, really:

    [QUOTE]Celtsfan4life, inserting Jeff Green into the starting lineup is actually a compliment to Ray. He doesn't have to play any less minutes and can certainly be in the game at the end. I think the game proved my point. Jeff Green is very uncomfortable coming off the bench and was not as productive as he can and should be. I think Ray can be a Hondo and come into the game off the bench and finish the game. The Celtics won the game, however Jeff Green has to far more productive if the C's are going to go deep. Hondo is one of the all time great Celtics. His ability to come off the bench and prevent what happened tonight was a key to that generation's success. In my opinion the Celtics need some offensive help on that second unit to prevent the 2nd quarter issues that caused the C's to go down by 12.  As an example, the same thing happened against the Heat last week, however the unlike the Knicks once the C's let the Heat get up by 10, it's a huge problem. I would still think about some time of adjustment if I were Doc. However, the C's won and Lakers lost. It's a good day in any regard.

    Posted by CeltsSox[/QUOTE]

    -

    Excuse me, but I think this thread, and the idea is posits, is pure, unadultered idiocy of the highest degree.

    Thank the Gods we have basketball professionals running the team and not some armchair quarterbacks who think too highly of their opinion.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from CeltsSox. Show CeltsSox's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    In Response to Re: START GREEN, really:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: START GREEN, really : - Excuse me, but I think this thread, and the idea is posits, is pure, unadultered idiocy of the highest degree. Thank the Gods we have basketball professionals running the team and not some armchair quarterbacks who think too highly of their opinion.
    Posted by RajonRondowski[/QUOTE]

    Rajon, do you think the starters that played in front of John Havilcek were better players than great Hondo. Check it out and let me know before you play the  "idiot" card. Oh by the way, last year the Celtics traded Eddie House and Billy Walker for Nate Robinson and two throw ins. Do you think the Celtics would be a pretty good team this year if they kept Eddie and Billy Walker. Probably would not have needed to trade Perk if Billy was still with the team. Think about it before you call your fellow Celtics' fans idiots for using creative thinking.

    Oh yes, just in case you where not aware of it, the world has now been proven that it is not flat. That proof came with strategic debate and experiments!!!

    Enjoy the day/night. The Celtics won and the Lakers lost today. 15 more wins and us idiots can celebrate together.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    In Response to Re: START GREEN, really:

    In Response to Re: START GREEN, really : Rajon, do you think the starters that played in front of John Havilcek were better players than great Hondo. Check it out and let me know before you play the  "idiot" card. Oh by the way, last year the Celtics traded Eddie House and Billy Walker for Nate Robinson and two throw ins. Do you think the Celtics would be a pretty good team this year if they kept Eddie and Billy Walker. Probably would not have needed to trade Perk if Billy was still with the team. Think about it before you call your fellow Celtics' fans idiots for using creative thinking. Oh yes, just in case you where not aware of it, the world has now been proven that it is not flat. That proof came with strategic debate and experiments!!! Enjoy the day/night. The Celtics won and the Lakers lost today. 15 more wins and us idiots can celebrate together.

    Posted by CeltsSox


    -

    CeltcSox, I do so enjoy your repartee, even though you are a freakin' idiot, a term I throw around with great affection.

    You call it "creative thinking" I call it idiocy.  Some say Smith, some say Symth, some say Buckett, some say Bouquet.  Same for the freakin' potato.

    For you to mention Havilceck in the same paragraph as House and Walker, well, it's telling. It tells me something about your "creative thinking".

    Havilcek started many games and for all practical purposes he functioned as a starter, he was a rare bird, that's how he became the Celtics leading scorer.

    It is not apropos to compare this Green and Allen debate with Celtics teams past.

    I take it you are old, at least older than I, if you remember Havilcek.  I hope to be old too some day, and be telling some young idiot about Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.  But I'm not as young as I claim to be, and I once payed $3 to see Cowans play with a couple of losers named Rowe & something, can't remember.  I walked across the Salt & Pepper Bridge, from Kendal Sq. in Cambridge to the Garden to see them.  It was not sold out.

    So be a happy idiot, I mean no offense except to the offended who deserve it the most, I'm even going to friend you, you deserve a friend like me.

    The NBA does not have players like Havilcek or Cowens, Cousey and Heinsohn, not to mention a 6'9" center named Russel. None of them guys or anything resembling them will ever walk through any NBA door again.

    I come to have fun, and believe me there are many idiots posting here and I'm sick of coddling them.  To point out their idiocy, that's fun for me.

    That is why I maintain that to entertain the notion of starting Jeff Green ahead of Ray Allen is pure idiocy, creative as it may seem to you.

    Be assured, Doc, Danny & I don't think it's a good idea.

    And I'm willing to bet you that it will not happen during these playoffs, unless Ray gets injured.

    I guess Doc and Danny just ain't creative thinkers . . . which may be why we're in the playoffs again for the 4th straight year with a chance to go all the way.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from usa4life. Show usa4life's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    JO played above what was expected.

    However, I still think he can have the same effect off the bench. The key is having healthy legs and a mature mind. He has both right now.

    The Green-Davis front court is flat out stupid and too small.

    One question, where has Baby's jump shot gone?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CeltsSox. Show CeltsSox's posts

    Re: START GREEN, really

    In Response to Re: START GREEN, really:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: START GREEN, really : - Excuse me, but I think this thread, and the idea is posits, is pure, unadultered idiocy of the highest degree. Thank the Gods we have basketball professionals running the team and not some armchair quarterbacks who think too highly of their opinion.
    Posted by RajonRondowski[/QUOTE]

    Rajon, old, I don't know. I suspect age is relative to one's conduct, activities and overall outlook on life. Idiot, not a word I would throw around too much. Particularly, when trying to sell your position. I suggest you think about getting more out of life with honey than with power insults. Many of us just look through the smoke. As far as Danny and Doc. They probably lead the league in personal character. However, at the risk of your continued characterization of being an "idiot", we are judged in corporate life by our perfomances. Making the playoffs is not a huge feat in today's NBA's structure. It's probably more difficult not make the playoffs these days given the talent and money being offered by the NBA. This version of our Celtics, in my view, and I will bet in the view of the investors in the Celtics, should have been able to win a minimum of two championships given the amount invested in the team. It makes no difference to me that you agree with Danny and Doc, that's easy to do. What would be more impressive if you could share your thoughts and disagreements with folks such as Danny and Doc while maintaining their respect. I personally thought this year's trade was a good long term trade, but a difficult trade since it came so late in the season. However, I thought the trade sending Eddie and Billy Walker to New York for a player like Nate that simply sat on the bench was a poor trade. Billy, at this point in his career would have been a great back up to Paul while Eddie's threes were sorely missed in Game 7 of last years' playoffs. In addition, I believe Billy has great potential and certainly could have helped avoid the need to trade Perk. On the other hand, I don't label Danny an "idiot", I label him a person of great character that puts too much emphasis on the financial aspects of operating a basketball team.

    No, I don't think Doc and Danny are overly creative and/or flexible. In fact, I think Danny's ability to allow things to go in one ear and out the other negates what Celtics Pride has done for the Boston community. It negates the human element that brings the community, the real investors in the team, into the Celtics family as those of us from Boston have been fortunate enough to experience.  Has Danny been successful? I  suspect that becomes a subjective view based on the individual. As far as Doc, based on his overall coaching history, I believe the difference between Doc being a very good coach and a great NBA coach is his refusal to use his instincts with his substitution and game plans. Anyone that plays this games knows that players get hot and cold. Great coaches have a feel for the guy with the hot hand and keep him on the court while throwing away the book. Doc prefers to stick with the plan and does not deviate. However, I would never offer any personal attacks on a person on his quality.

    With that said, Rajon, it's great to have a Celtics fan like you that is not afraid to use passion in your discussions. However, my bet is that you will accomplish more yourself in your efforts by thinking out of the box when it comes to debating with those who believe creativity is an important element of success. I suspect that becomes important when some of us can watch games on things called DVR's when 3000 miles from home, and strangely enough, on our phones while sitting at an airport. As far my thoughts about the Celtics, OLD as I guess I am, I very much enjoyed the respect, friendship, and acceptance of the players as I travelled around the country performing my own tasks.

    Keep up the passion, I don't take offense. I'm hoping (maybe praying) that you call me the biggest idiot in the world when Paul and KG carry around a very large trophy in June!!!!
     

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