Stay the course

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Stay the course

    We all know the Celtics won't be competing for an NBA championship the next couple years. If Ainge breaks up the team in order to free up a little bit of cap space to pursue younger second-tier free agents, that will merely prolong the rebuilding process.

    To build a championship team you need high draft picks and cap space. Buying Pierce out in order to maybe sign an Al Jefferson makes the team worse both in the present and in the future because it delays the necessary bottoming out. There's no point in signing a second-tier free agent to long-term money if he's not going to make you a legitimate championship contender. It's counter-productive to the bigger picture.

    Garnett is signed for two more years. I expect he'll play out the rest of his contract and then retire. He loves playing for Doc Rivers, he seems to like Boston, he's a prideful guy, he's still very talented, and there were reports that he intends to have both of his ankles surgically repaired this off-season. That's not something you generally do if you plan to retire.

    If I'm Danny Ainge, I would arrange all the contracts in such a way as to expire at around the same time. That way the Celtics can truly make a major free agent splash, hopefully aided by some good draft picks in the interim.

    Step 1: Exercise the $15.3m option on Pierce for next year, and extend him one season beyond that for $10 million.

    This would set things up so that the Celtics only have Courtney Lee on a guaranteed contract beyond the 2014-2015 season (for one year). Jeff Green has a player's option. That would be the off-season to do some major wheeling and dealing. The entire roster could be re-done.

    Available free agents in the 2014-15 off-season include:

    PG - Rajon Rondo, Jeremy Lin, Steve Nash, Jose Juan Barea, Raymond Felton, Jason Kidd, Goran Dragic.

    SG - Lou Williams, Jason Terry, Doron Lamb, Alexy Shved, Eric Gordon, Danny Green, Marcus Thornton, Wesley Mathews.

    SF - Wilson Chandler, Tayshaun Prince, Kyle Singler, Gerald Green, Luc Mbah a Moute, Landry Fields, Travis Outlaw, Jared Dudley, Victor Claver, Thaddeus Young.

    PF - Mirza Teletovic, Reggie Evans, Brandon Bass, Tyrus Thomas, Carlos Boozer, Anthony Randolph, Drew Gooden, Kevin Love, Nick Collison, Glen Davis, Charles Hayes, Luis Scola, Jeremy Evans, LaMarcus Aldridge, Joel Freeland.

    C - Brook Lopez, Brendan Haywood, Marc Gasol, Omer Asik, Roy Hibbert, DeAndre Jordan, Kendrick Perkins, Tyson Chandler.

    If the Celtics only have Courtney Lee under contract, they could sign two max guys plus extend one or more of their own free agents. I'd sign Marc Gasol and Kevin Love to max deals, re-sign Rondo and Green, and see if maybe Garnett and Pierce would want to come back for short money on one-year deals if such a super team came to pass. Now that would be a team that could win a championship and it would only be the year after next.

    So which is better? Assembling a super team in two years (re-check some of those names at C/PF, there'd be solid options if the top targets sign elsewhere), or treading proverbial water by making marginal upgrades this off-season? I say wait it out. Be patient. Rebuild when rebuilding will make a difference.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kaktug. Show kaktug's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    plus, nobody is beathing the heat in the east anyway, as long as their big three are healthy and playing together.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kaktug. Show kaktug's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    you could always just trade PP and make KG put his money where his mouth is. he says he'll retire if PP isn't here. let's lest that.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    It's easy to say sign Marc Gasol and Kevin Love. 

    How sure are you Marc Gasol and Kevin Love want to come to Boston?

    The current teams of Marc Gasol and Kevin Love can offer them more money.

    I've been a fan of the Celtics since the Larry Bird era and since that time to the present, the Celts have never signed a big name free-agent.

    The Celts have a bigger chance of making the playoffs if KG plays than if Al Jefferson replaces KG. No KG means no playoffs, that's for sure.

    So if you want to get those high draft picks, make sure there will be no Paul Pierce and no KG next season.




    Very few teams build a championship through the draft these days..trying to remember the last since 200..

    Celtics last title - No

    Lakers - No 2x (Gasol steal made them champ contenders)

    Heat -  No 2x

    Mavs - Yes

    Spurs - Yes 4x

    Lakers - Shaq era No 3x

    So, in the last 13 years only 2 teams were fortunate enough to draft (Dirk not really drafted by Mavs but got him that way)  a star player to lead them to a title.

    THe draft can get you a potential star who leads the team to a title....but a trade or FA signing can  get you an already established star player, seems to be whats working more often than not.

     

     

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

     

    Very few teams build a championship through the draft these days..trying to remember the last since 200..

     

    Celtics last title - No

    Lakers - No 2x (Gasol steal made them champ contenders)

    Heat -  No 2x

    Mavs - Yes

    Spurs - Yes 4x

    Lakers - Shaq era No 3x

    So, in the last 13 years only 2 teams were fortunate enough to draft (Dirk not really drafted by Mavs but got him that way)  a star player to lead them to a title.

    THe draft can get you a potential star who leads the team to a title....but a trade or FA signing can  get you an already established star player, seems to be whats working more often than not.

     

     

     



    Why did you forget to mention the Lakers diving into the lottery in 2005 and getting Andrew Bynum?

     

    If the Lakers didn't have Andrew Bynum, it would have been Suns vs. Celtics in the 2010 Finals.

    Again, when was the last time the Celts signed a big name free-agent?

    The most famous big name free-agent the Celts signed was a 35-year old Dominique Wilkins in 1994.

    Boston is not as attractive as NY or LA. The Lakers and the Knicks can afford not to build through the draft. But the Celts can't.

    The only way to get assets to use as trade bait is if you get lottery picks. Remember, if the Celtics didn't dive into the lottery of 2007, no #5 pick which means no Ray Allen and no KG!



    but wait..we have Doc RIvers... arent all the superstars in the NBA just drooling to play for him?

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

     

    but wait..we have Doc RIvers... arent all the superstars in the NBA just drooling to play for him?

     

     

    Players love playing for Doc. But their wives love to live in a city like NY or LA.

     



    are you breaking news here that you have intimate knowledge of NBA players wives?

     

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kaktug. Show kaktug's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to kaktug's comment:

     

    you could always just trade PP and make KG put his money where his mouth is. he says he'll retire if PP isn't here. let's lest



    Trading PP won't help as the Celts would have to take back close to 15.3m. Celts are a team over the cap. So they have to take contracts in return. Only way to free up cap space is to amnesty Pierce.

     

    Amnestying Pierce means he gets his 15.3m and the Celtics get the 15.3m off the books.



    you trade PP for 2 reasons: 1) to try and get something of value for him, even though we probably waited too long, and 2) to force KG's hand. if KG retires, we actually do get some cap relief.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kaktug. Show kaktug's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    also, wasn't KG essentially a free agent acquisition? we traded for him, but he wouldn't agree to come sign an extension with boston until the RA deal got done. so KG was more or less a free agent who came to boston. so that's one pretty big free agent signing. agreed though that there have not been a lot of them. maybe minnesota was so horrible that boston looked good by comparison. lol

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Stay the course

     

    Players love playing for Doc. But their wives love to live in a city like NY or LA.


    New York and Los Angeles won't have the cap space. Memphis and Minnesota are much smaller markets than Boston and not nearly as attractive. Do I know for sure that Gasol and Love would both come to the Celtics? No. But I'd like to at least make it a possibility. Making moves for the sake of making moves won't help this team at all. Swapping Paul Pierce for Al Jefferson doesn't set this team up for future success. It only prolongs the mediocrity. Jefferson is not a franchise player who will lead a team to a title.

    Re-read the list of available names in 2014-15. If not Gasol and Love, there are a lot of other top players who would help bigtime: Chandler, Aldridge, Asik, Jordan, etc. Every single one of them can't sign with New York and LA, and I highly doubt that they'll stay with their present teams, all of which are smaller markets than Boston (with the exception of Chandler and the Knicks). What happened the last 20 years bears no relevance to the present because the cap rules are different today than they were in the post-Bird years.

    If you tell Gasol and Love the plan to pair them up with Rondo and Green, I think there's a good chance one or both would agree to it, just as Garnett did when the Celtics also added Ray Allen. And again, if only one of Gasol and Love sign, you still have Chandler, Aldridge, Asik and Jordan as very good secondary targets. Once you have two of those guys on board, suddenly other veterans will want to sign for the veteran's minimum, likely including Garnett and Pierce for final hurrahs, among others.

    I would much rather take the chance of such a scenario unfolding than foolishly wasting money on second-tier guys so that the Celtics finish 6th for the rest of the decade. The Celtics aren't going to win the title next year or the year after regardless. Be patient. Wait things out. Clear cap space for the free agent bonanza of 2014-15.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    Great thread davidap; really interesting (and informed) views by all; Fierce, your sharp opinions are often enough very intersting and always more persuasive when devoid of reflexive antagonism (keep it up). I think Danny should keep the band together. I'd like to see both KG and Paul share the sixth man role(I guess with JET if they keep him too) . They would need to find a real center to start and go with Bass or Sully, and Green up front and Rondo and hopefully a rejuvinated (more confident) Lee or Bradley (whichever could sink a corner three) in the back court; that's all if they stay with the current group.  But I think Danny's right that current team is not one player away from competing for a title; it's two; real center and real shooting guard...go get em Danny.  Blatch or an amenistied Perk anyone? Can they sign and trade Bass/Lee for Millsap; the guy's a baller (doesn't get us a center but he rebounds and plays inside, something the Cs need). Getting a real two ( a gunner who's not afraid to shoot cause he can - like JR Smith for example) seems almost harder to acheive than a center; maybe I just don't know the talent that might be available at the two versus the five. ANy thoughts?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    "Stay the course!" said General Custer. "Victory is ours."

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

     

    but wait..we have Doc RIvers... arent all the superstars in the NBA just drooling to play for him?

     

     

    Players love playing for Doc. But their wives love to live in a city like NY or LA.

      Yeah, but what about their girlfriends?


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    In response to kyceltic's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

     

    but wait..we have Doc RIvers... arent all the superstars in the NBA just drooling to play for him?

     

     

    Players love playing for Doc. But their wives love to live in a city like NY or LA.

     

      Yeah, but what about their girlfriends?


     

    Or their guy-friends?

    Pud

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Stay the course

    In response to davidap's comment:

    We all know the Celtics won't be competing for an NBA championship the next couple years. If Ainge breaks up the team in order to free up a little bit of cap space to pursue younger second-tier free agents, that will merely prolong the rebuilding process.

    To build a championship team you need high draft picks and cap space. Buying Pierce out in order to maybe sign an Al Jefferson makes the team worse both in the present and in the future because it delays the necessary bottoming out. There's no point in signing a second-tier free agent to long-term money if he's not going to make you a legitimate championship contender. It's counter-productive to the bigger picture.

    Garnett is signed for two more years. I expect he'll play out the rest of his contract and then retire. He loves playing for Doc Rivers, he seems to like Boston, he's a prideful guy, he's still very talented, and there were reports that he intends to have both of his ankles surgically repaired this off-season. That's not something you generally do if you plan to retire.

    If I'm Danny Ainge, I would arrange all the contracts in such a way as to expire at around the same time. That way the Celtics can truly make a major free agent splash, hopefully aided by some good draft picks in the interim.

    Step 1: Exercise the $15.3m option on Pierce for next year, and extend him one season beyond that for $10 million.

    This would set things up so that the Celtics only have Courtney Lee on a guaranteed contract beyond the 2014-2015 season (for one year). Jeff Green has a player's option. That would be the off-season to do some major wheeling and dealing. The entire roster could be re-done.

    Available free agents in the 2014-15 off-season include:

    PG - Rajon Rondo, Jeremy Lin, Steve Nash, Jose Juan Barea, Raymond Felton, Jason Kidd, Goran Dragic.

    SG - Lou Williams, Jason Terry, Doron Lamb, Alexy Shved, Eric Gordon, Danny Green, Marcus Thornton, Wesley Mathews.

    SF - Wilson Chandler, Tayshaun Prince, Kyle Singler, Gerald Green, Luc Mbah a Moute, Landry Fields, Travis Outlaw, Jared Dudley, Victor Claver, Thaddeus Young.

    PF - Mirza Teletovic, Reggie Evans, Brandon Bass, Tyrus Thomas, Carlos Boozer, Anthony Randolph, Drew Gooden, Kevin Love, Nick Collison, Glen Davis, Charles Hayes, Luis Scola, Jeremy Evans, LaMarcus Aldridge, Joel Freeland.

    C - Brook Lopez, Brendan Haywood, Marc Gasol, Omer Asik, Roy Hibbert, DeAndre Jordan, Kendrick Perkins, Tyson Chandler.

    If the Celtics only have Courtney Lee under contract, they could sign two max guys plus extend one or more of their own free agents. I'd sign Marc Gasol and Kevin Love to max deals, re-sign Rondo and Green, and see if maybe Garnett and Pierce would want to come back for short money on one-year deals if such a super team came to pass. Now that would be a team that could win a championship and it would only be the year after next.

    So which is better? Assembling a super team in two years (re-check some of those names at C/PF, there'd be solid options if the top targets sign elsewhere), or treading proverbial water by making marginal upgrades this off-season? I say wait it out. Be patient. Rebuild when rebuilding will make a difference.

     

     



    I think you forgot a FA (2014-2015) Lebron James! 

     
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