Stern to blame

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    I really dislike Stern and would be very happy to see him resign or retire. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    As much as I'd like to heap all the blame onto Stern, I dont see it that way.

    Stern doesnt force the owners into anything. This is a negotiation going on for alot of money. A point in either direction is a ton over the course of the new CBA and sets in stone the premise for the next CBA negotiation down the road.

    The owners arent stupid and know this is the time for them to take a stand. THey will outlast the players who are probably already starting to fracture, especially the lower paid guys.

    Stern isnt conducting the owners. His influence isnt going to make them forego billions of dollars imo.

    Now, everything else you posted about Stern Im in agreement with. His gestapo tactics about everyone keeping their mouths shut re4garding criticisms....His talent pool of inept & tainted refs, his targeting of certain players/teams, his edicts to refs how to call certain games, even the puppet NBA announcers who'll stand by the nba and its ref's regardless of the obvious bias is sickening and has turned me away from basketball.

    The game has gone backwards imo. Its not entertaining watching games become FT contests. ITs not entertaining anymore watching the muscle flex or finger stuck in an electrical socket scream after every dunk. Its not entertaining watching ESPN game highlights of only dunks. ITs not entertaining watching refs destroy game after game with ZERO retribution. Its not entertaining watching so amny "skilled" players unable to make a 15 foot shot. Its not entertaining watching every opssession be either a dunk attempt or 3 pt shot.

    There's no more mid range game. Theres too many athletes that dont possess the skills. The days of the Dream Team are over. The NBA is no longer dominate over the rest of the world. We dont play the game the way we did years ago. ITs mostly one-on one, ala Kobe & Lebron.... its mostly Dunks & FT's....

    I miss the days of seeing a 3-4 minute stretch of whistle-less fast break ball..

    The game has deteriorated in a marketing machine... pumping up the chosen players, giving them preferential treatment on the court... turning them into idols to attract fans and improve the NBA brand.  Fans fall for it!! Regurgitating whatever they hear from ESPN or the NBA as the gospel.

    I cant even enjoy a game live...with all the blasting music during every single second time is out. ITs like the NBA needs to be in your face or entertaining you until youre brainwashed to their satisfaction.

    As a side note, years ago the NBA used to have a half time (prerecorded on tv)  ONE-ON-ONE contest with nba players.. Now that was fun to watch. I remember Jo Jo White did pretty good.  OF course, this couldnt happen these days with its stars. Imagine the hit the NBA marketing monster would take if Lebron lost to some backup point guard.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    Stern is a creep. The NBA players are showing they are out of touch and entitled beyond reason with just a touch of stupidity. That is a bad combination.  This thing needed to get settled this week and will now make the season if there is one a super asterisk event.  Times are tough and the players don't see that tough times are about to effect them even if they settle at some point. Owners are hardly objects of sympathy but the numbers support them and players due to past lies just can't see that things are different.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]As much as I'd like to heap all the blame onto Stern, I dont see it that way. Stern doesnt force the owners into anything. This is a negotiation going on for alot of money. A point in either direction is a ton over the course of the new CBA and sets in stone the premise for the next CBA negotiation down the road. The owners arent stupid and know this is the time for them to take a stand. THey will outlast the players who are probably already starting to fracture, especially the lower paid guys. Stern isnt conducting the owners. His influence isnt going to make them forego billions of dollars imo. Now, everything else you posted about Stern Im in agreement with. His gestapo tactics about everyone keeping their mouths shut re4garding criticisms....His talent pool of inept & tainted refs, his targeting of certain players/teams, his edicts to refs how to call certain games, even the puppet NBA announcers who'll stand by the nba and its ref's regardless of the obvious bias is sickening and has turned me away from basketball. The game has gone backwards imo. Its not entertaining watching games become FT contests. ITs not entertaining anymore watching the muscle flex or finger stuck in an electrical socket scream after every dunk. Its not entertaining watching ESPN game highlights of only dunks. ITs not entertaining watching refs destroy game after game with ZERO retribution. Its not entertaining watching so amny "skilled" players unable to make a 15 foot shot. Its not entertaining watching every opssession be either a dunk attempt or 3 pt shot. There's no more mid range game. Theres too many athletes that dont possess the skills. The days of the Dream Team are over. The NBA is no longer dominate over the rest of the world. We dont play the game the way we did years ago. ITs mostly one-on one, ala Kobe & Lebron.... its mostly Dunks & FT's.... I miss the days of seeing a 3-4 minute stretch of whistle-less fast break ball.. The game has deteriorated in a marketing machine... pumping up the chosen players, giving them preferential treatment on the court... turning them into idols to attract fans and improve the NBA brand.  Fans fall for it!! Regurgitating whatever they hear from ESPN or the NBA as the gospel. I cant even enjoy a game live...with all the blasting music during every single second time is out. ITs like the NBA needs to be in your face or entertaining you until youre brainwashed to their satisfaction. As a side note, years ago the NBA used to have a half time (prerecorded on tv)  ONE-ON-ONE contest with nba players.. Now that was fun to watch. I remember Jo Jo White did pretty good.  OF course, this couldnt happen these days with its stars. Imagine the hit the NBA marketing monster would take if Lebron lost to some backup point guard.
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    Much truth here. SIGH!

    So just maybe we need a season away from it all.

    Pud

    P.S..... but hey.... did ya happen to see that dunk that BGrif made jumping over the car?

    AWESOME!!!
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stern to blame : totally agree with everything you say except it is Stern who allowed the expansion into markets that really don't warrant a team in a town that can't fill the seats.........the owners try to do their best to get some semblance of talent there but they are competing with the big market teams.........alas they start thinking of overpaying for mediocre talent...........a no win situation........so yes the owners put themselves there but Stern put the owners there when there is absolutely no reason...and the players........they should be thankful to be paid what they are for playing a game.....and they need to be taught how to plan for your future not command more money for playing a game........no one forces them to buy these mega million dollar estates when they know that their time in the high salary market is fleeting.........someone needs to shake them and tell them how to budget their money for the future and stop living theses extravagant lives while they are in the limelight ..........because the limelight stop all to soon and then what.....you are in debt up to your ears and will begin to spiral downwards.........wake up players and know that your time is not endless and prepare for your future while you can..........come live in the real world and see what life is all about
    Posted by damfuno[/QUOTE]

    Hmmmmmm.... that someone to shake them and tell them to budget their money because careers can be fleeting?????

    Isn't that what the (7% off the top) agent/money-manager/attorney is for?

    Pud
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from genaro008. Show genaro008's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    I have a hard time when the the players who average 4 to 5 years want more then 50%. The owners are rich but they were all rich before the purchased a NBA team. I think the NBA players have the best deal for years compared to other sports and to but they least amount of players of the major 4 sports makes it even more lopsided. Let them miss one check and I think this will get settles around 51 to 52 percent. Or 50 percent with no roll back on the salary cap.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    I blame the players, they have no leverage at all and they are trying to take a hardline. Thats just ignorant. Their best time to make a deal was right BEFORE the season so the owners wouldnt lose games. Now that ships passed and the players will get an even worse deal. The owners know that EVENTUALLY the players are gonna get tired of not collecting paychecks (especially the lower to mid level players, who are the majority) and will have to settle. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoCalCeltFan. Show SoCalCeltFan's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]I blame the players, they have no leverage at all and they are trying to take a hardline. Thats just ignorant. Their best time to make a deal was right BEFORE the season so the owners wouldnt lose games. Now that ships passed and the players will get an even worse deal. The owners know that EVENTUALLY the players are gonna get tired of not collecting paychecks (especially the lower to mid level players, who are the majority) and will have to settle. 
    Posted by gman101019[/QUOTE]
    Hellooooo!! What part of the definition of LOCKOUT don't you understand? The OWNERS signed a deal they retroactively decided was a bad deal. Why? Because it gave the Lakers, Mavs, Celts, and Heat all types of salary cap loopholes to run through. Now, they want the players to save them from themselves AND keep the owners from having to go to revenue sharing amongst THEMSELVES. Employees have very little leverage, if any, against corporate interests these days, so why is it a 'surprise' that the players are trying to exercise what little they do have to keep from having a bad deal jammed up their a#$es. Stern represents not basketball or the NBA but THE OWNERS! Big newsflash, the players nor the fans can FIRE him, only the owners. This is not about players vs. owners, it's what it is usually about in these 'labor' negotiations...filthy rich, profitable OWNERS against the merely rich, incompetent owners. Players and fans are just necessary evils that the bigwigs have to contend with.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stern to blame : Hellooooo!! What part of the definition of LOCKOUT don't you understand? The OWNERS signed a deal they retroactively decided was a bad deal. Why? Because it gave the Lakers, Mavs, Celts, and Heat all types of salary cap loopholes to run through. Now, they want the players to save them from themselves AND keep the owners from having to go to revenue sharing amongst THEMSELVES. Employees have very little leverage, if any, against corporate interests these days, so why is it a 'surprise' that the players are trying to exercise what little they do have to keep from having a bad deal jammed up their a#$es. Stern represents not basketball or the NBA but THE OWNERS! Big newsflash, the players nor the fans can FIRE him, only the owners. This is not about players vs. owners, it's what it is usually about in these 'labor' negotiations...filthy rich, profitable OWNERS against the merely rich, incompetent owners. Players and fans are just necessary evils that the bigwigs have to contend with.
    Posted by SoCalCeltFan[/QUOTE]

    Bad deal compared to what? The current deal?

    Maybe but....

    that bad deal is still quite lucrative for the players. After all, they make many millions playing a freakin' game... unlike the rest of us. 

    Pud
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LakerFan67. Show LakerFan67's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    There are owners that want to make a deal with the players. Their teams that are successful, they want a chance to compete for a title. They include Jerry Buss, Mark Cuban, Mickey Arison but they are in the minority. Cleveland's Dan Gilbert, still angry about Lebron bolting, along with Paul Allen, & Donald Sterling want to drag this thing out since they make more money with no deal. With more owners with bad teams, they have no incentive to resolve the labor dispute. These guys are envious of the successful franchises & they want to create conditions where they can hold onto quality players throughout their careers at a much lower salary. That flies against free market principles. 

    Stern argues for "parity." Those that would disagree would say that in the end, you'll get mediocrity. Who cares if in the end its Toronto vs Utah or Memphis vs Atlanta. The truth is that when San Antonio was winning their titles, few people watched or cared.

    Stern is a scoundrel & a dush. Telling your players how to dress, penalizing them for showing excitement--too much control by this dictator.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]There are owners that want to make a deal with the players. Their teams that are successful, they want a chance to compete for a title. They include Jerry Buss, Mark Cuban, Mickey Arison but they are in the minority. Cleveland's Dan Gilbert, still angry about Lebron bolting, along with Paul Allen, & Donald Sterling want to drag this thing out since they make more money with no deal. With more owners with bad teams, they have no incentive to resolve the labor dispute. These guys are envious of the successful franchises & they want to create conditions where they can hold onto quality players throughout their careers at a much lower salary. That flies against free market principles.  Stern argues for "parity." Those that would disagree would say that in the end, you'll get mediocrity. Who cares if in the end its Toronto vs Utah or Memphis vs Atlanta. The truth is that when San Antonio was winning their titles, few people watched or cared. Stern is a scoundrel & a dush. Telling your players how to dress, penalizing them for showing excitement--too much control by this dictator.
    Posted by LakerFan67[/QUOTE]

    Rubbish!  Why would anyone spend 350 million on a team that has ZERO chance of ever winning a title?  The league should contract, there should be a hard cap and restricted player movement.  None of that has hurt the NFL.  Naturally, lakers fans want things status quo, and a season this year.  Heaven help the world if the lakers were not competitve for a few years and had to play by the same rules as everyone else.  Each day that goes by is one day closer to the end of the koME era............Thank God!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 21st. Show 21st's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]There are owners that want to make a deal with the players. Their teams that are successful, they want a chance to compete for a title. They include Jerry Buss, Mark Cuban, Mickey Arison but they are in the minority. Cleveland's Dan Gilbert, still angry about Lebron bolting, along with Paul Allen, & Donald Sterling want to drag this thing out since they make more money with no deal. With more owners with bad teams, they have no incentive to resolve the labor dispute. These guys are envious of the successful franchises & they want to create conditions where they can hold onto quality players throughout their careers at a much lower salary. That flies against free market principles.  Stern argues for "parity." Those that would disagree would say that in the end, you'll get mediocrity. Who cares if in the end its Toronto vs Utah or Memphis vs Atlanta. The truth is that when San Antonio was winning their titles, few people watched or cared. Stern is a scoundrel & a dush. Telling your players how to dress, penalizing them for showing excitement--too much control by this dictator.
    Posted by LakerFan67[/QUOTE]

    The commish should allow players to dress like this?

    Or act this way?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LakerFan67. Show LakerFan67's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    Some Boston fans are so blinded by their Laker hatred, they lose sight of what's in the best interest of the NBA. You want to tell men how to dress, what to say & not to say, not to show any emotion after a great play. That's a control freak, someone who doesn't understand the word freedom.

    There has to be a balance. Treating men like children isn't one of them.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 21st. Show 21st's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]Some Boston fans are so blinded by their Laker hatred, they lose sight of what's in the best interest of the NBA. You want to tell men how to dress, what to say & not to say, not to show any emotion after a great play. That's a control freak, someone who doesn't understand the word freedom. There has to be a balance. Treating men like children isn't one of them.
    Posted by LakerFan67[/QUOTE]

    After a great play a man has to kiss another man on the lips?

    You're telling us the commish should allow players/men to dress like this?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]Some Boston fans are so blinded by their Laker hatred, they lose sight of what's in the best interest of the NBA. You want to tell men how to dress, what to say & not to say, not to show any emotion after a great play. That's a control freak, someone who doesn't understand the word freedom. There has to be a balance. Treating men like children isn't one of them.
    Posted by LakerFan67[/QUOTE]

    Not sure what you mean about not being allowed to show emotion after a great play,  Emotion & celebration has become the staple of most players after almost any play that scores a basket. They flex & do their 5 second scream like dunking the ball was a great, great miraculous feat that sent a tsunamic like rush of adrenelin through their bodies.

    Im all for Stern establishing guidelines for dress/behavior to a degree, like most all pro sports teams do. ITs necessary for the marketing of the league.  For my own selfish reasons, Id love to see the neanderthal  behavior on the court abolished but thats just my personal opinion.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]Some Boston fans are so blinded by their Laker hatred, they lose sight of what's in the best interest of the NBA. You want to tell men how to dress, what to say & not to say, not to show any emotion after a great play. That's a control freak, someone who doesn't understand the word freedom. There has to be a balance. Treating men like children isn't one of them.
    Posted by LakerFan67[/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't mind being treated like a child if someone was going to give me (on average) a 5 mill allowance per year.

    They make a fortune playing a child's game.... if you haven't noticed!

    They are called p-l-a-y-e-r-s!

    They p-l-a-y and are fabulously rewarded for doing so.

    The rest of us have to w-o-r-k in obscurity and earn p-e-a-n-u-t-s compared to these prima donnas who have more money (than they could possibly spend) than sense.

    Try working at Wal-Mart for a week.... Kobe, Amare, Fish, CP3, LeBron, KG.... and then get back with us and explain how the NBA is abusing you.

    Pud
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from scarymemo. Show scarymemo's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stern to blame : Rubbish!  Why would anyone spend 350 million on a team that has ZERO chance of ever winning a title?  The league should contract, there should be a hard cap and restricted player movement.  None of that has hurt the NFL.  Naturally, lakers fans want things status quo, and a season this year.  Heaven help the world if the lakers were not competitve for a few years and had to play by the same rules as everyone else.  Each day that goes by is one day closer to the end of the koME era............Thank God!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]

    It is that you're just scared that the status quo will eventually lead to the Lakers getting to 18 first? It was ok for you that the Red Sox did the same thing and look at them now, the biggest collapse in sports history. How about them Red Sox?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]Some Boston fans are so blinded by their Laker hatred, they lose sight of what's in the best interest of the NBA. You want to tell men how to dress, what to say & not to say, not to show any emotion after a great play. That's a control freak, someone who doesn't understand the word freedom. There has to be a balance. Treating men like children isn't one of them.
    Posted by LakerFan67[/QUOTE]

    Some lakers fans are so blinded by their loyalty to the lakers that they lose sight of what is really at stake here.  NATURALLY the lakers and all their fans want a season this year.  OF COURSE Buss wants a season.  With the oldest team in the league, they have a small window.  Because Buss is allowed to spend irresponsibly is part of the problem, not the solution.  Tell me how this current system benefits Toronto or Cleveland and I will listen.  Those owners have spent MORE than Buss to acquire a team, and they should have no say in things?  Delusional!! 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 21st. Show 21st's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stern to blame : It is that you're just scared that the status quo will eventually lead to the Lakers getting to 18 first? It was ok for you that the Red Sox did the same thing and look at them now, the biggest collapse in sports history. How about them Red Sox?
    Posted by scarymemo[/QUOTE]

    Lakers getting to 18 first with this guy?

    FAT CHANCE!!!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stern to blame : It is that you're just scared that the status quo will eventually lead to the Lakers getting to 18 first? It was ok for you that the Red Sox did the same thing and look at them now, the biggest collapse in sports history. How about them Red Sox?
    Posted by scarymemo[/QUOTE]

    Well, I think the Yankees in 2004 was a bigger choke job.  Of course, the lakers getting swept this year is up there as well.  2 time defending champs go out like lambs.......
    And baseball will never change.  The Union is too strong....how about them Yankees?  Biggest payroll and they lose to the Tigers?
    Oh, and I really don't care if the lakers get to 18 first, as long as the playing field is LEVEL.....then, you see, they would have earned it.  The system as it is now totally favors the lakers, and not the rest of the league.  They might even have to use creative financing for once, instead of out-spending everyone.

    Your "argument" (if that's what it is), merely drives home my point - the current system favors the lakers, and that's why the lakers organization and their fans want status quo..............thanks for chiming in with your nonsense - and thanks for "makin' my point."
     

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