Stern to blame

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    Rubbish!!  Team A has 15 million dollars of cap space - you play already for Team A
    Team B has 15 million dollars of cap space - their records are equal

    Which team do you play for?   Well, Team A is in a nice climate, while Team B is Minnesota....these guys will take the nice climate any day of the week.  So, while no one is holding a gun to the owners head, sometimes the small market guys HAVE to overpay to keep their own players (acquired in the draft)..that is grossly unfair.  All things equal, that kid should stay in MN or CLE or TOR, unless they get a BETTER offer somewhere else.  The TEAM should be allowed to trade a player to wherever they can get the best deal, not where the player wants to go, when did that start - oh yeah, with 'Melo!!  He should be on the Nets right now, and Denver wouldn't be in the toilet because HE held a gun to THEIR heads..............wake up avenger!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    The plaayers have agreed to reduce their Basketball Related Income share to 52.5% from 57%.  That's $230M of relief and the league claims that all teams together lost $300M.   So, with the players current proposal (a big reduction in salaries), most teams will now make money.  So, some teams will not make money unless they show more management discipline in the contracts they sign and in how they promote their teams.

    In any industry, not all companies make money.  Some news papers, some IT Companies, some Car manufacturers, some steel firms don't make money.  If they don't manage their costs and market properly - they lose money and go out of business.

    So, with the current proposal (and the players could go another percentage point lower if the owners showed any wilingness to move!!!), only poorly managed teams don't make money.  Like poorly run businesses, perhaps they SHOULD go out of business.   Some management personnel and just stupid and they shouldn't be in business.  I contend there are 4 or 5 NBA franchises like that!

    Hey, Red-16, Slavery is dead and your information is wrong.  MOST PLAYERS CANNOT REFUSE A TRADE!   If a player has played long enough and has earned a no trade clause, then that's ok with me.  Most players don't have that right.  Most haven't earned it and they can be traded.   But, once they've either been in the league long enough or attained a certain market power (free agency coming up) - there's nothing wrong with them being able to refuse some trades.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    The plaayers have agreed to reduce their Basketball Related Income share to 52.5% from 57%.  That's $230M of relief and the league claims that all teams together lost $300M.   So, with the players current proposal (a big reduction in salaries), most teams will now make money.  So, some teams will not make money unless they show more management discipline in the contracts they sign and in how they promote their teams. In any industry, not all companies make money.  Some news papers, some IT Companies, some Car manufacturers, some steel firms don't make money.  If they don't manage their costs and market properly - they lose money and go out of business. So, with the current proposal (and the players could go another percentage point lower if the owners showed any wilingness to move!!!), only poorly managed teams don't make money.  Like poorly run businesses, perhaps they SHOULD go out of business.   Some management personnel and just stupid and they shouldn't be in business.  I contend there are 4 or 5 NBA franchises like that! Hey, Red-16, Slavery is dead and your information is wrong.  MOST PLAYERS CANNOT REFUSE A TRADE!   If a player has played long enough and has earned a no trade clause, then that's ok with me.  Most players don't have that right.  Most haven't earned it and they can be traded.   But, once they've either been in the league long enough or attained a certain market power (free agency coming up) - there's nothing wrong with them being able to refuse some trades.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life


    Melo didn't have a no-trade clause - only two players in the league do, kobe and Dirk  - whose info is wrong again?  And he WAS traded, wasn't he?  So much for that part of your argument.  I said if he wants to be traded, fine.  Here is a team that drafted him, coached him, coddled him, made him the face of their franchise, gave him two max contracts...........so shoot me for thinking THEY should have SOME say in where they want to trade him!!  He should be on the Nets now - they had the best deal on the table - why isn't he???  Better check your facts on that one!!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    David Stern has it in his contract that he is to get 1 million more than the highest paid player every year.This year it is 23 million. I heard this yesterday and could not believe this little creep is so highly paid.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    David Stern has it in his contract that he is to get 1 million more than the highest paid player every year.This year it is 23 million. I heard this yesterday and could not believe this little creep is so highly paid.  
    Posted by concord27



    I heard it's 500 K PER TEAM, which would put his salary at 15 million - still too much for  a weasel.  By the way, I am not doubting your info, I just heard something different, I could be wrong!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    Concerning the owners screwing everything up....that is true.....but they also should be able to say...."we need to fix this thing and we know how....from here on we are not going to outbid each other....we will set a ceiling for any free agent".....etc, etc....the only problem is that the players union would scream "collusion".....even though it makes sense to all of the owners who created this problem...fixing it so that salaries come down, no guaranteed contracts, limiting the length of contracts.....this would all be in violation of fair practice...even though it would fix things and improve the quality of the play (imagine guys having to play hard and prove themselves so as not to lose their job to a hungrier and/or better player....

    Why aren't the owners yelling collusion when the players came right out and admitted what they did?....they also admit that many of them are planning on doing the same thing as soon as they "hit the street".....why does collusion seem to be a one way street....? oh, almost forgot....the players would still paid huge sums of money...just not the current amount that makes the average salary by far the highest in team sports...just wondering...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    Concerning the owners screwing everything up....that is true.....but they also should be able to say...."we need to fix this thing and we know how....from here on we are not going to outbid each other....we will set a ceiling for any free agent".....etc, etc....the only problem is that the players union would scream "collusion".....even though it makes sense to all of the owners who created this problem...fixing it so that salaries come down, no guaranteed contracts, limiting the length of contracts.....this would all be in violation of fair practice...even though it would fix things and improve the quality of the play (imagine guys having to play hard and prove themselves so as not to lose their job to a hungrier and/or better player.... Why aren't the owners yelling collusion when the players came right out and admitted what they did?....they also admit that many of them are planning on doing the same thing as soon as they "hit the street".....why does collusion seem to be a one way street....? oh, almost forgot....the players would still paid huge sums of money...just not the current amount that makes the average salary by far the highest in team sports...just wondering...
    Posted by Duke4

      Duke,
       The Sports business world is in a very unique positon when compared to the rest of the Business community. While each team strives for individual success they are also aware of the fact that their success is dependant to a great extent upon their opponents also being successfull. To get 30 owners to sacrifice individually,for the good of all, must at times be very frustrating. I would guess that in the non sports world, that this compassion for the competiton, may very well be non-existant. And then once the Civil war from within is resolved, they must face the cries of collusion and the threat of anti trust law suites. And then finally, all out warfare with the union. Not exactly a stroll through the park for either side.  But then again, it is what it is!!  For me its a small price to pay for the hundreds of thousands of dollars of relatively free sports entertainment that I have received since my family first owned a TV set in 1948.
       Oh well, college hoops is just around the corner.

     seems
     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from passfirst. Show passfirst's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    No one is putting a knife to the throats of owners when they decided to buy an NBA franchise. Those Boston fans that side with the owners must be independently wealthy or believe in socialism for the rich. And if you don't either of these 2 categories, you've really been brain-washed by the most privileged. What the failing franchises want is to be bailed out by the most successful owners. And they amount to maybe 5 teams. There is system in place in the current NBA that gives opportunities for every NBA team to improve. That's the draft. If you're a LOSER, you get to pic the cream of the college crop every year. There is also free agency. If you plan effectively, you can get quality players to improve your team. Some owners have been more effective at playing by the rules of the system to improve and some have not. Those that have not are in the majority and now they want to change the rules further because of their incompetence, their inability to select and maintain quality talent, and for some, their unwillignness to pay for free agents. So lets further game and marginalize the system for the trash franchises & their incompetent management by penalyzing the few successful franchises. And will create a lockout & blame the players for the failure of most teams. We'll establish a hard cap and limit free agency, coupled with lowering salaries. Believe me, this has nothing to do with Celtic or Laker success. So those few of you who can't think and are blinded by hatred of the opposition, look at this lockout for what it is. Failed franchises trying to manipulate the rules on the hides of players and the few successful teams.
    Posted by LakerFan67

      Are you talking about the players or the owners?  Look, it's a power struggle and some of us see that the game could get better if the owners are able to take advantage of their leverage over the players this time around.  If they can lower the number of years on gauranteed contracts, the players that turn out to be busts can't hold back the product as easily and the game gets better bottom line.  

     As a fan I could care less about 50/50 if the gauranteed contracts aren't reduced in years.  The current rules on gauranteed contracts tremendously stunts the league.  None of us care about the players or the owners personally, and they don't even know we exist.  But we see the stucture of the league as defunct in certain ways that could be closer to being solved if the players lose on this one.  

      

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from passfirst. Show passfirst's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    In Response to Re: Stern to blame :   Duke,    The Sports business world is in a very unique positon when compared to the rest of the Business community. While each team strives for individual success they are also aware of the fact that their success is dependant to a great extent upon their opponents also being successfull. To get 30 owners to sacrifice individually,for the good of all, must at times be very frustrating. I would guess that in the non sports world, that this compassion for the competiton, may very well be non-existant. And then once the Civil war from within is resolved, they must face the cries of collusion and the threat of anti trust law suites. And then finally, all out warfare with the union. Not exactly a stroll through the park for either side.  But then again, it is what it is!!  For me its a small price to pay for the hundreds of thousands of dollars of relatively free sports entertainment that I have received since my family first owned a TV set in 1948.    Oh well, college hoops is just around the corner.  seems
    Posted by SeemsToMe



      Good dialogue guys!  Enjoy reading posts between you two.
     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LakerFan67. Show LakerFan67's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    Passfirst, the fact is that there are only a few elite players in the NBA. And which ever NBA team has at least 2 superstars and 3 exceptional players with an effective coach and competent management, will be at the top. Those conditions mean that however you want to game the system, there will always be only a few successful franchises.

    What the failing owners want to do is continue to manipulate the rules in their favor. You're dreaming if you believe that paying players less and locking them into contracts (or cutting some earlier), especially the top players will somehow create a better league. There just isn't enough talent to carry 30 teams--5 or 6 maybe but not 30, especially and more paricularly in the type of game that lis basketball.
     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    In Response to Re: Stern to blame :   Good dialogue guys!  Enjoy reading posts between you two.
    Posted by passfirst


     passfirst,
        Thanks for the kind words.  Just a couple of old timers that enjoy a good  old fashioned civil conversation about sports.  By the way, there seems to be quite a bit of hope this morning that an agreement could be reached over the weekend. Now wouldn't that be great?
     
      seems 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    Good post buddy.....as always!  .....hey, what year did you get your first color television?....mine was in 1973 (13" portable....now I have a 48" flat screen, high def....life is good....!)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    Passfirst, the fact is that there are only a few elite players in the NBA. And which ever NBA team has at least 2 superstars and 3 exceptional players with an effective coach and competent management, will be at the top. Those conditions mean that however you want to game the system, there will always be only a few successful franchises. What the failing owners want to do is continue to manipulate the rules in their favor. You're dreaming if you believe that paying players less and locking them into contracts (or cutting some earlier), especially the top players will somehow create a better league. There just isn't enough talent to carry 30 teams--5 or 6 maybe but not 30, especially and more paricularly in the type of game that lis basketball.
    Posted by LakerFan67


    OR, pehaps the owners are faililng because they cannot afford to match the ridiculous offers of the Buss' of the world!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    Good post buddy.....as always!  .....hey, what year did you get your first color television?....mine was in 1973 (13" portable....now I have a 48" flat screen, high def....life is good....!)
    Posted by Duke4

     Duke,
      Got my first color TV in the mid 60's.  However its the 7" Emerson TV that will always stick out in my mind. My Dad was an avid boxing fan (fought as a amateur in the early 30's in the New England area) and he bought the TV 2 days before the 1948 championship Willy Pep--Sandy Sandler fether weight fight. The fact that we had 1 of the only 2 sets in the small town of Dighton resulted in an overflow gathering, that for one night at least, led us to believe that we had become  Madison Square Garden.  I guess it was all about the atmosphere- Certainly not the size or quality of the picture. But for that one night, we were all part of a lucky few.  

      seems
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from passfirst. Show passfirst's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    In Response to Re: Stern to blame :  passfirst,     Thanks for the kind words.  Just a couple of old timers that enjoy a good  old fashioned civil conversation about sports.  By the way, there seems to be quite a bit of hope this morning that an agreement could be reached over the weekend. Now wouldn't that be great?     seems 
    Posted by SeemsToMe



      That would be great.  I'm looking forward to watching Rondo over these next couple of years.  And pulling for him to gather those last couple of pieces to his game that he needs to take the next step.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    I hear you Seems.....I still look back fondly on the Friday Night Fights.....and the original Home Run Derby....brought to you by Schlitz... (remember they would never tell us the name of the ballpark...?  I think it was the old minor league Wrigley Field in California...)  ....my first World Series featured the Go Go Sox against my beloved Dodgers....we sat in the living room eating dinner on the old tv trays....my hero Duke Snider hit his final WS homer....as a kid who had just turned 9 years old, I was thrilled....I only wish we had access to the media like we have had for the last 30 years....I probably would've seen the Bums finally beat those Yanks in '55......
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    I hear you Seems.....I still look back fondly on the Friday Night Fights.....and the original Home Run Derby....brought to you by Schlitz... (remember they would never tell us the name of the ballpark...?  I think it was the old minor league Wrigley Field in California...)  ....my first World Series featured the Go Go Sox against my beloved Dodgers....we sat in the living room eating dinner on the old tv trays....my hero Duke Snider hit his final WS homer....as a kid who had just turned 9 years old, I was thrilled....I only wish we had access to the media like we have had for the last 30 years....I probably would've seen the Bums finally beat those Yanks in '55......
    Posted by Duke4


      Thanks alot Duke!!. For 56 years I have Blocked out the memory of that loss by my Yanks to the Bums and out of the blue you ruin my day. Have you no compassion for a OLD MAN? 
       Your right about TV arriving on the scene to late to preserve the sports world of our youth on DVD'S.  For me the recording expertise came about 20--25 years late. However NBA.COM is now making it possible for me to put a lot of the old games of the 80's and the 90's on DVD'S.  Gives me plenty of time to go back in time to refresh my memroies about the past 30 years.

      seems
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    Yeah, it is great seeing the footage of the earlier times.....sorry about the reminder from the '55 Series....I do love the caricature the New York papers had....the old, almost toothless "Brooklyn Bum" shouting..."THIS IS NEXT YEAR"!!!

    Take care buddy.....and, remember....you're not that old!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeezem. Show jeezem's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    They should just play the games.  There's plenty of athletes out there who are making nothing, who would work for 5% of an average NBA salary and think they were getting rich.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from passfirst. Show passfirst's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    They should just play the games.  There's plenty of athletes out there who are making nothing, who would work for 5% of an average NBA salary and think they were getting rich.
    Posted by jeezem


      But then they'd have to sell tickets at 5% of the average as well.  

      Maybe they could have a couple of wheelchair basketball exhibitions and give the money to charity while bumping up the economy around the neighborhood of the stadium for a night.  I think if they owned the stadium we might see more of that type of creativity from Wyc.  The owners could do a lot to maintain and even grow their goodwill among fans if they did these types of things.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Stern to blame

    In Response to Re: Stern to blame:
    In Response to Re: Stern to blame : Melo didn't have a no-trade clause - only two players in the league do, kobe and Dirk  - whose info is wrong again?  And he WAS traded, wasn't he?  So much for that part of your argument.  I said if he wants to be traded, fine.  Here is a team that drafted him, coached him, coddled him, made him the face of their franchise, gave him two max contracts...........so shoot me for thinking THEY should have SOME say in where they want to trade him!!  He should be on the Nets now - they had the best deal on the table - why isn't he???  Better check your facts on that one!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11


    So I said most players can't refuse a trade.  You said only 2 have no trade clauses.  Sounds like you are agreeing with me!

    Also, Carmelo could not refuse the trade wherever Denver wanted to send him.  He woulc have to accepted the trade.  BUT, the next year when free agency came, he did not have to resign with that team.  So, Denver would not get much in return.  THAT'S where the leverage was.  He did NOT have the right to refuse a trade.  he only had the right to sign wherever wanted AFTER he became a free agent after the season.

    Is that more clear for you?
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share