Stiemsma to Start Tonight

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight

    In Response to Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight : Sorry - that's not what you do if you want to win games!   Name me a team that starts brings two of its most experienced and productive players off the bench and wins.   Take Ray's points and Garnett's leadership and put them on the bench and you get deficits immediately.  We then fight to come from behind.   Evidence - look at the point spreads of those players when the substitute.  They are losing leads against the other team's backups.  Imagine what they'd do if they had to play their starters.  Start Moore against Wade and JJ against Bost and see what happens.   You'll end up putting Ray and KG in the game trying to dig out of bigger holes than they dug already.    Petey - just because you won some awards in college does not mean you are ready for the NBA and more importantly, it does not mean you are prepared to play in a system where defensive rotations and offensive plays are more complicated than most other NBA teams.  Unlike other teams, the C's don't win games because they are more athletic or faster.  They have to win by getting into the right position on offensive sets and because their defensive rotations produce stops.   Even at that, they struggle this year.  No way you start too many young guys as antiqueman suggests.   I'm sorry, but I like Doc's years of coaching and playing experience much more than this Board's zero years of NBA experience when it comes to selecting teams to play.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    Coming of the bench does not mean sitting him the entire first quarter. It means keeping KG fresh. He could add that needed spark coming in off the bench.  But if this Cs team does not start to use its youth more, then the big 3 will get fatiqued by season's end if not sooner. Why not keep them as fresh as possible? A good bench that believes in itself and that the team believes in can carry this Cs team far into the playoffs perhaps.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight

    In Response to Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight:
    [QUOTE]Hi, Petey.  This is the post by Antiqueman1 that I was responding to when I mentioned they shouldn't start over KG and Ray.  I was mixing a response to this and a response to your post at the same time: I think the Cs should try KG or Allen coming off the bench. It will allow a young player more experience, build confidence and strengthen the team overall. Having Garnett come off the bench also allows him to remain fresh and strengthen the second unit with Rondo. The big 3 can't continue to log long minutes this season. Have one come in off the bench. It keeps both units fresh and gives the youth a chance to shine. As for the Celtic's complexity, I'm referring to the fact that teams like Miami and Bulls and Lakers often give the ball to their stars and let them go one on one.  We don't do that as much (couldn't survive that way).  Few of them run plays for a player like we do for Ray or the multiple action plays we run designed to get Ray, KG, and Paul open for jumpers.  My evidence is that when the bench is in, our offense looks lost and breaks down to desparation shots and broken plays.  That means the subs are not ready for the offense and don't understand it. Defense often has the same problem as the announcers even comment on. When to switch and when not to switch, when to hedge on a pick and roll yet get back to your man, etc are all staples of the Celtics D that we don't often see other teams do.  So, I think young players with no practice time struggle with all this and the Celtics more than other teams need these principles to win because they are not going to win with pure speed and athleticsm like the Bulls and Heat often do (and even the Knicks).  When we played the Knicks, they simply posted Carmelo every time.  There were NO PLAYS.  The C's used to do that with Pierce but no more.  We have to run plays or we're dead. As for Moore, we are in FULL agreement that he would really benefit from playing with the starters.  I advocate the same thing you do.  But, not for JJ.  JJ plays a more phyciscal position and appears not ready to be physical.  I watched him in the preseason and he simply isn't ready for it (timid).  He will benefit from practice and watching for about half the season. So, we're in agreement on Moore but not on JJ and I would not support the folks like Antique who would take it too far.  Bass and KG are not being run into the ground as far as I can see.  At 26 years old, if 28 minutes in a game runs Bass into the ground - we're in big trouble and he's not a strong player.  And....KG is only averaging 30 minutes.  I think that's pretty darn good.  Doc has held to his 5 on and 5 off rule for the most part.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]
    I agree with your post.  I read an article before the season that said Garnett was praising JJJ and Doc felt he was progressing under KG's wing.  I thought that he had the length and athleticism to "make up" for his lapses.  As for his toughness, it's going to be awhile before this guy puts on enough weight to compete down low.

    But I agree with what you are saying.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maryngary. Show maryngary's posts

    Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight

    Bass and the Steamer could take the pressure of loads of minutes off of OJ and KG, it would not be a bad deal.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight

    KG off the bench and Bass starting? I don't see that. The first unit needs a defender like KG (who also has a good outside shoot) who is a great passer as well. Because you have 2 great shooters (Allen and Pierce) with Allen beeing an average defender. The second unit needs: SCORERS. Bass with his shoot first mentality and his inside game is great for the second unit and in the end of games (together with KG).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight

    In Response to Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight : Sorry - that's not what you do if you want to win games!   Name me a team that starts brings two of its most experienced and productive players off the bench and wins.   Take Ray's points and Garnett's leadership and put them on the bench and you get deficits immediately.  We then fight to come from behind.   Evidence - look at the point spreads of those players when the substitute.  They are losing leads against the other team's backups.  Imagine what they'd do if they had to play their starters.  Start Moore against Wade and JJ against Bost and see what happens.   You'll end up putting Ray and KG in the game trying to dig out of bigger holes than they dug already.    Petey - just because you won some awards in college does not mean you are ready for the NBA and more importantly, it does not mean you are prepared to play in a system where defensive rotations and offensive plays are more complicated than most other NBA teams.  Unlike other teams, the C's don't win games because they are more athletic or faster.  They have to win by getting into the right position on offensive sets and because their defensive rotations produce stops.   Even at that, they struggle this year.  No way you start too many young guys as antiqueman suggests.   I'm sorry, but I like Doc's years of coaching and playing experience much more than this Board's zero years of NBA experience when it comes to selecting teams to play.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    I watch the games and for the last few years we generally build a lead or keep it close at the start and then Doc ends up with 5 benchers on the floor at the same time and our lead evaporates.  What I would like to see is integrating more of the youngsters with the Paul, Rays, and KGs, so that it takes pressure off them.  I think they will be more effective and contribute that way. 
    Plus were getting youth in the lineup.  Steamer is the first that comes to mind. I would have liked to see more minutes last night from the kid. The more minutes he plays the quicker he will become a good player for the team.  That would also make the second team better when you have Ray or Paul, KG an Oneal helping out with seond teamers, to add a little more experience.  I just cringe every time I see 5 benchers out there and think about who they are and wonder how in the heck can they compete against anyone.  Been that way for 3 years.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight

    In Response to Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight : My bad if I implied that Doc should start the rookies in place of Ray and KG.  I thought I posted that the young guys should be integrated with the starters at some point in the game.  I agree that we cannot start Moore, JJJ and Stiemsma.  If you thought I meant that, let me stand corrected.  I just think they should get some minutes with the starters.  I'd love to see Moore sub for Ray in the 2nd quarter with a 13 point lead.  I'd also love to see Moore go out with KG and have Ray and JJJ sub in in a similar circumstance. I just believe that with very few practices and a compressed schedule, these guys need to get "some" minutes to give the starters a breather.  Also, I don't want Doc to run Bass into the ground either.  With our injuries last season, we ran Baby into the ground too and he was no good come playoff time.  Doc says it every year.  It's really time to put that philosophy in action.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    I agree with most of the Petey.  It does seem that Doc is trying to reduce their time a little.  Paul didn't play in the 4 th quarter last nite.  Good.  But then I thin k Steamer only played 12 minutes, not good.  Ray on the other hand has played a lot of minutes already, ( i think)  I like KG doing the 5 minute thing.  Doc has been close with this.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight

    In Response to Re: Stiemsma to Start Tonight:
    [QUOTE]KG off the bench and Bass starting? I don't see that. The first unit needs a defender like KG (who also has a good outside shoot) who is a great passer as well. Because you have 2 great shooters (Allen and Pierce) with Allen beeing an average defender. The second unit needs: SCORERS. Bass with his shoot first mentality and his inside game is great for the second unit and in the end of games (together with KG).
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]

     That is why Ray would be a perfect fit for the second team.  Fire away.  Kg on the other hand I think we need to start.
     

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