Sullinger is the real deal...!

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    Re: Sullinger is the real deal...!

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    from an overall standpoint, not sure how anyone is getting too hyped about beating a nets team that is barely above .500. and was 1-5 in their previous 6 games with deron williams calling out his team for their stagnant and selfish offensive play. that was a bad, disinterested team that showed up today and other than the little run they had they offered little in the way of resistance. the team's top three players all had terrible games. this is not an indication of what it's been like when the celts have faced off against the better teams in the league and there have been lots of very ugly performances.

    in terms of sullinger - he obviously looked great. but those decrying his lack of playing time shiould look a little more closely at his game to game perfrormance. one, he has been drawing fouls like a machine. in short, it's not as if sullinger has been knocking them dead on a nightly basis - he has been very shaky game to game. a solid perfromance is often followed by one involving quick fouls, a turnover, bad positioning on defense, etc. with that said, he simply demands more time and they're going to have to grow with him. he is going to make mistakes and doc is not crazy about playing guys who make lots of mental errors (like most rookies do). 

    green is thankfully seeming to finally get into the flow of the offense a little bit and the past two weeks have been significantly better for him personally, but this team has to continue working really hard to get him the ball, to run more, and to continue to acclimate him. for those getting excited about green and his "worthy-esque" talents (based on the fact that he has a similar ability to grip the ball and drive one handed) be advised that that is a severely premature comparison. no one with any familiarity with green had any questions about his ability to drive the ball or shoot threes so his abilities should come as no surprise. you watched him play 3 1/2 seasons in seattle/OKC, right? his skill set is not in question - his toughness; aggressiveness; assertiveness; and ability to play team d at a high level and generally blend with this team are. 

    green so far is averaging 22.8 minutes per game; 9.8 pts and barely 3 (count em, 3) rebounds a game. at 8-9 million per something like 16/6 or 7 would be in line for a 6 "9" forward who they are counting on to score. this is not s shoutdown defender we're talking about; green is an offensive player and needs to provide offense. it is a no brainer that he needs more time on the court (both because his talent demands it; because of bass' poor play, etc.) and he is getting it, but he is not currently rebounding well enough at the 3 and absolutely would kill them on the boards at the 4. we'll see what happens with his output. you have to love the talent, but this guy has to get tougher and get more accomplished on a nightly basis. 

    all of this is moot if a legit big man (and hopefully two) are not acquired. but AB getting healthy and green's play are two of the most important compments afetr that to the celts having any chance to make noise. 

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    Rookies dont get calls and Sully has YET to even be given the ball in the post. He is basically being treated like a garbage man and you expect him to do what exactly when playing 20 min. or less with no touches?? I thought up until now, he has been a good soldier considering his position in college and the numbers he put up. He just hustles up and down the floor, rebounds, gets his put backs and  has come a long way in regards to defense and rotations. Cut the guy some slack. If they fed him the ball and gave him minutes, I have no doubt he could give 20 and 10 a night

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    love sullinger. think he's going to be a solid nba player. the fact that rookies can't get calls is part of the problem of being a rookie in the NBA and one of the things working against him - yiou're helping to make my point. your supposition that he can go out and score 20 points a game is based on what exactly? certainly not his offensive performance so far. you actually belive that his play on the offensive end of the court demands that he get the ball in the low post? he can't do anything with the ball when he gets it there. he's having trouble even getting contested shots off, let alone posessing the capability to lead a team in scoring. there are 10 players in the NBA averaging 20 points or more right now and i doubt anyone but you thinks he's capable of going out and averging 15 points a game right now, let alone 20. talk about unfair expectations. 

    in terms of being a good solider... again, he's a rookie. what exactly do you think rookies do in the NBA? unless you're a can't miss prospect and/or go to a really bad team in a top three pick, very few rookies start (there's about 6 starting right now depending on the night and a few of these are because of injury) or even make significant contributions to their teams, so not sure your perception of rookies in the NBA is at all accurate. believe me, sullinger is happy to be getting the minutes he's getting right now. playing 17 minutes a night he leads the team in fouls. in terms of rookies he's at 1 or 2 in terms of rebounding per minute, which is great. he's also fouling at a rate that would have him fouling at out of every game if he was playing another 8-10 minutes a night. 

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    Ok, since Im a respectful person, We will have to agree to disagree but since you asked, I will tell how I see it. If Sully can get 16 pts in 30 plus minutes without any plays called for him, why is so hard to believe he could score 20 with touches?? I understand maybe saying he doesnt get the minutes to do it, but if you think he is incapable then you dont know Sully.  Most times he posts up he gets Ideal position on the low block(something not everyone can do....ahem K.G.) and they ignore him but the rare occasion they do and he looks to score, He DOES!  He was a post up assasin in college and if we can give the ball to baby in the post we sure as h3ll should w/sully because he is miles better offensively and he is only playing now cuz he can defend well enough for the most part but his strengh is offense and with touches he could absolutely get 20 n 10. maybe not every night but dude is legit and will make u eat your words, IMO

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    1. first, there is a question if he is even in good enough shape to play 30 minutes a night, but with that said, even if he is, once again, he leads the team in fouls and is play 17 MINUTES A NIGHT. to illustrate further, in his last 62 minutes he has 11 fouls. he couldn't stay on the court for thirty minutes because he's fouling at a rate that would have him out of every single game before he hit 30 minutes. doesn't matter if the fouls are really fouls, he's getting poor treatment from the refs, etc. this is the reality of his play so far. it'll get better - the refs will learn his game, he'll learn what he can and cannot get away with. he's a rookie. 

    2. your statement that when they get the ball to him in the low post he scores is simply not true.  in fact, he struggles mightily to get shots up against even average defenders right now and has had his shot blocked a bunch. his points have come almost exclusively off put backs (which he struggles with when defended), dish offs when other people drive to the hoop getting him uncontested layups, and 15 foot set shots. the point isn't whether or not he will get better in the low post - of course he will, it's that right now he's still figuring it out. let him acclimate.

    3. now that we've established that he couldn't stay on the court right now for 30 minutes,  your hyperbolic statement that he could get 20 points a night if they would just give him the ball give him is absurd. let the kid have one game where he scores 20 before annointing him a perennial all-star and designing an offense around him. you just clearly don't have a concept of what it takes to average 20 points and 10 rebound per game as a rookie in the NBA. you know who has done that? - alonzo mourning; bob petit; ralph sampson; bill russell; hakeem olajawon; maurice stokes; tim duncan; blake griffin; shaq; david robinson; jerry lucas; larry bird; wes unseld; elvin hayes; elgin baylor; kareem; walt bellamy; oscar robinson; and wilt chamberlain. every one of the eligible retired players is in the h.o.f.

    4. getting it done in college is a lot different than getting it done in the pros. especially for a guy with serious vertical challenges. kid fell to 21 for a reason. and he's turned out to be a great pick as MANY here thought he might be. he might make some people eat their words, but not me. I loved the pick; I love him as a player. And I'm very encouraged by his play. I'm just realistic about what he is and ins't right now. you are not. 

    5. AGAIN, as I said, love the kid. think he's going to be a solid nba player, but to ignore his struggles, and annoint him unrealistically does no one any good. he's being brought along at exactly the right pace. he's playing as much as he is able and his minutes will likely grow as we move along and he learns how to stay on the court, be in the right position defensively, and find his offense within the flow of the game. AGAIN, his smarts and his rebounding is not in question. he has a nice little shot from 15. he' shooting 80-% from the line. what's not to love? getting to a point where is playing 25 minutes a night, and averaging 10-8 would be a very realistic goal for him this year. and that will put him in the upper echelon of rookies statistically. 

     

     
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    Re: Sullinger is the real deal...!

    I think the exact point I was making was that rather than heap unfair expectations on him it makes sense to judge him fairly. which is exctly what I am doing. 

     
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    Re: Sullinger is the real deal...!

    Sullinger is who we thought he was!

    He has extraordinary court sense.  He is an excellent rebounder.  He is a good passer with a decent shot.  He is also slow, not very athletic and too short to effectively compete with many PFs.   So he will never be an all star and probably not a starter for decent teams ever, but a quality contributor on most rosters, including the Celtics.  

     

     
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    Re: Sullinger is the real deal...!

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    from an overall standpoint, not sure how anyone is getting too hyped about beating a nets team that is barely above .500. and was 1-5 in their previous 6 games with deron williams calling out his team for their stagnant and selfish offensive play. that was a bad, disinterested team that showed up today and other than the little run they had they offered little in the way of resistance. the team's top three players all had terrible games. this is not an indication of what it's been like when the celts have faced off against the better teams in the league and there have been lots of very ugly performances.

    in terms of sullinger - he obviously looked great. but those decrying his lack of playing time shiould look a little more closely at his game to game perfrormance. one, he has been drawing fouls like a machine. in short, it's not as if sullinger has been knocking them dead on a nightly basis - he has been very shaky game to game. a solid perfromance is often followed by one involving quick fouls, a turnover, bad positioning on defense, etc. with that said, he simply demands more time and they're going to have to grow with him. he is going to make mistakes and doc is not crazy about playing guys who make lots of mental errors (like most rookies do). 

    green is thankfully seeming to finally get into the flow of the offense a little bit and the past two weeks have been significantly better for him personally, but this team has to continue working really hard to get him the ball, to run more, and to continue to acclimate him. for those getting excited about green and his "worthy-esque" talents (based on the fact that he has a similar ability to grip the ball and drive one handed) be advised that that is a severely premature comparison. no one with any familiarity with green had any questions about his ability to drive the ball or shoot threes so his abilities should come as no surprise. you watched him play 3 1/2 seasons in seattle/OKC, right? his skill set is not in question - his toughness; aggressiveness; assertiveness; and ability to play team d at a high level and generally blend with this team are. 

    green so far is averaging 22.8 minutes per game; 9.8 pts and barely 3 (count em, 3) rebounds a game. at 8-9 million per something like 16/6 or 7 would be in line for a 6 "9" forward who they are counting on to score. this is not s shoutdown defender we're talking about; green is an offensive player and needs to provide offense. it is a no brainer that he needs more time on the court (both because his talent demands it; because of bass' poor play, etc.) and he is getting it, but he is not currently rebounding well enough at the 3 and absolutely would kill them on the boards at the 4. we'll see what happens with his output. you have to love the talent, but this guy has to get tougher and get more accomplished on a nightly basis. 

    all of this is moot if a legit big man (and hopefully two) are not acquired. but AB getting healthy and green's play are two of the most important compments afetr that to the celts having any chance to make noise. 

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    Rookies dont get calls and Sully has YET to even be given the ball in the post. He is basically being treated like a garbage man and you expect him to do what exactly when playing 20 min. or less with no touches?? I thought up until now, he has been a good soldier considering his position in college and the numbers he put up. He just hustles up and down the floor, rebounds, gets his put backs and  has come a long way in regards to defense and rotations. Cut the guy some slack. If they fed him the ball and gave him minutes, I have no doubt he could give 20 and 10 a night

    [/QUOTE]

    love sullinger. think he's going to be a solid nba player. the fact that rookies can't get calls is part of the problem of being a rookie in the NBA and one of the things working against him - yiou're helping to make my point. your supposition that he can go out and score 20 points a game is based on what exactly? certainly not his offensive performance so far. you actually belive that his play on the offensive end of the court demands that he get the ball in the low post? he can't do anything with the ball when he gets it there. he's having trouble even getting contested shots off, let alone posessing the capability to lead a team in scoring. there are 10 players in the NBA averaging 20 points or more right now and i doubt anyone but you thinks he's capable of going out and averging 15 points a game right now, let alone 20. talk about unfair expectations. 

    in terms of being a good solider... again, he's a rookie. what exactly do you think rookies do in the NBA? unless you're a can't miss prospect and/or go to a really bad team in a top three pick, very few rookies start (there's about 6 starting right now depending on the night and a few of these are because of injury) or even make significant contributions to their teams, so not sure your perception of rookies in the NBA is at all accurate. believe me, sullinger is happy to be getting the minutes he's getting right now. playing 17 minutes a night he leads the team in fouls. in terms of rookies he's at 1 or 2 in terms of rebounding per minute, which is great. he's also fouling at a rate that would have him fouling at out of every game if he was playing another 8-10 minutes a night. 

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    Ok, since Im a respectful person, We will have to agree to disagree but since you asked, I will tell how I see it. If Sully can get 16 pts in 30 plus minutes without any plays called for him, why is so hard to believe he could score 20 with touches?? I understand maybe saying he doesnt get the minutes to do it, but if you think he is incapable then you dont know Sully.  Most times he posts up he gets Ideal position on the low block(something not everyone can do....ahem K.G.) and they ignore him but the rare occasion they do and he looks to score, He DOES!  He was a post up assasin in college and if we can give the ball to baby in the post we sure as h3ll should w/sully because he is miles better offensively and he is only playing now cuz he can defend well enough for the most part but his strengh is offense and with touches he could absolutely get 20 n 10. maybe not every night but dude is legit and will make u eat your words, IMO

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    1. first, there is a question if he is even in good enough shape to play 30 minutes a night, but with that said, even if he is, once again, he leads the team in fouls and is play 17 MINUTES A NIGHT. to illustrate further, in his last 62 minutes he has 11 fouls. he couldn't stay on the court for thirty minutes because he's fouling at a rate that would have him out of every single game before he hit 30 minutes. doesn't matter if the fouls are really fouls, he's getting poor treatment from the refs, etc. this is the reality of his play so far. it'll get better - the refs will learn his game, he'll learn what he can and cannot get away with. he's a rookie. 

    2. your statement that when they get the ball to him in the low post he scores is simply not true.  in fact, he struggles mightily to get shots up against even average defenders right now and has had his shot blocked a bunch. his points have come almost exclusively off put backs (which he struggles with when defended), dish offs when other people drive to the hoop getting him uncontested layups, and 15 foot set shots. the point isn't whether or not he will get better in the low post - of course he will, it's that right now he's still figuring it out. let him acclimate.

    3. now that we've established that he couldn't stay on the court right now for 30 minutes,  your hyperbolic statement that he could get 20 points a night if they would just give him the ball give him is absurd. let the kid have one game where he scores 20 before annointing him a perennial all-star and designing an offense around him. you just clearly don't have a concept of what it takes to average 20 points and 10 rebound per game as a rookie in the NBA. you know who has done that? - alonzo mourning; bob petit; ralph sampson; bill russell; hakeem olajawon; maurice stokes; tim duncan; blake griffin; shaq; david robinson; jerry lucas; larry bird; wes unseld; elvin hayes; elgin baylor; kareem; walt bellamy; oscar robinson; and wilt chamberlain. every one of the eligible retired players is in the h.o.f.

    4. getting it done in college is a lot different than getting it done in the pros. especially for a guy with serious vertical challenges. kid fell to 21 for a reason. and he's turned out to be a great pick as MANY here thought he might be. he might make some people eat their words, but not me. I loved the pick; I love him as a player. And I'm very encouraged by his play. I'm just realistic about what he is and ins't right now. you are not. 

    5. AGAIN, as I said, love the kid. think he's going to be a solid nba player, but to ignore his struggles, and annoint him unrealistically does no one any good. he's being brought along at exactly the right pace. he's playing as much as he is able and his minutes will likely grow as we move along and he learns how to stay on the court, be in the right position defensively, and find his offense within the flow of the game. AGAIN, his smarts and his rebounding is not in question. he has a nice little shot from 15. he' shooting 80-% from the line. what's not to love? getting to a point where is playing 25 minutes a night, and averaging 10-8 would be a very realistic goal for him this year. and that will put him in the upper echelon of rookies statistically. 

     

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    This is all fine, but didnt take that much writing to explain. I know b-ball, we just are talking about two different things. You are talking about him not being able because of foul trouble. I am just saying he is able. I disagree with your asessment of him and his ability. I think its a stretch to say he gets his shot blocked a ton when in the same post you talk about  his lack of minutes. If he isnt shooting, how can he be constantly getting his shot blocked.??? I havent seen that and I didnt see it last game. I recall in the Cavs game we let them hang around while we kept turning it over and taking bad shots while they ignored Sully in the post with PRime real estate.  There was no shot blocker and to me going inside is always the best thing and then work outside. I think he could offer more offensively but they dont choose to use him. Like I told people after the draft, rookie or not - 6'8" 270 is still 6'8" 270 no matter where u play and he uses his body well. Its not about unfair expectations, its about giving the guy a shot, and please dont act like you know how many minutes he can go because to this point he hasnt had any of the issues we heard and I chalk it up to pre-draft haterade

     
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    Re: Sullinger is the real deal...!

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
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    from an overall standpoint, not sure how anyone is getting too hyped about beating a nets team that is barely above .500. and was 1-5 in their previous 6 games with deron williams calling out his team for their stagnant and selfish offensive play. that was a bad, disinterested team that showed up today and other than the little run they had they offered little in the way of resistance. the team's top three players all had terrible games. this is not an indication of what it's been like when the celts have faced off against the better teams in the league and there have been lots of very ugly performances.

    in terms of sullinger - he obviously looked great. but those decrying his lack of playing time shiould look a little more closely at his game to game perfrormance. one, he has been drawing fouls like a machine. in short, it's not as if sullinger has been knocking them dead on a nightly basis - he has been very shaky game to game. a solid perfromance is often followed by one involving quick fouls, a turnover, bad positioning on defense, etc. with that said, he simply demands more time and they're going to have to grow with him. he is going to make mistakes and doc is not crazy about playing guys who make lots of mental errors (like most rookies do). 

    green is thankfully seeming to finally get into the flow of the offense a little bit and the past two weeks have been significantly better for him personally, but this team has to continue working really hard to get him the ball, to run more, and to continue to acclimate him. for those getting excited about green and his "worthy-esque" talents (based on the fact that he has a similar ability to grip the ball and drive one handed) be advised that that is a severely premature comparison. no one with any familiarity with green had any questions about his ability to drive the ball or shoot threes so his abilities should come as no surprise. you watched him play 3 1/2 seasons in seattle/OKC, right? his skill set is not in question - his toughness; aggressiveness; assertiveness; and ability to play team d at a high level and generally blend with this team are. 

    green so far is averaging 22.8 minutes per game; 9.8 pts and barely 3 (count em, 3) rebounds a game. at 8-9 million per something like 16/6 or 7 would be in line for a 6 "9" forward who they are counting on to score. this is not s shoutdown defender we're talking about; green is an offensive player and needs to provide offense. it is a no brainer that he needs more time on the court (both because his talent demands it; because of bass' poor play, etc.) and he is getting it, but he is not currently rebounding well enough at the 3 and absolutely would kill them on the boards at the 4. we'll see what happens with his output. you have to love the talent, but this guy has to get tougher and get more accomplished on a nightly basis. 

    all of this is moot if a legit big man (and hopefully two) are not acquired. but AB getting healthy and green's play are two of the most important compments afetr that to the celts having any chance to make noise. 

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    Rookies dont get calls and Sully has YET to even be given the ball in the post. He is basically being treated like a garbage man and you expect him to do what exactly when playing 20 min. or less with no touches?? I thought up until now, he has been a good soldier considering his position in college and the numbers he put up. He just hustles up and down the floor, rebounds, gets his put backs and  has come a long way in regards to defense and rotations. Cut the guy some slack. If they fed him the ball and gave him minutes, I have no doubt he could give 20 and 10 a night

    [/QUOTE]

    love sullinger. think he's going to be a solid nba player. the fact that rookies can't get calls is part of the problem of being a rookie in the NBA and one of the things working against him - yiou're helping to make my point. your supposition that he can go out and score 20 points a game is based on what exactly? certainly not his offensive performance so far. you actually belive that his play on the offensive end of the court demands that he get the ball in the low post? he can't do anything with the ball when he gets it there. he's having trouble even getting contested shots off, let alone posessing the capability to lead a team in scoring. there are 10 players in the NBA averaging 20 points or more right now and i doubt anyone but you thinks he's capable of going out and averging 15 points a game right now, let alone 20. talk about unfair expectations. 

    in terms of being a good solider... again, he's a rookie. what exactly do you think rookies do in the NBA? unless you're a can't miss prospect and/or go to a really bad team in a top three pick, very few rookies start (there's about 6 starting right now depending on the night and a few of these are because of injury) or even make significant contributions to their teams, so not sure your perception of rookies in the NBA is at all accurate. believe me, sullinger is happy to be getting the minutes he's getting right now. playing 17 minutes a night he leads the team in fouls. in terms of rookies he's at 1 or 2 in terms of rebounding per minute, which is great. he's also fouling at a rate that would have him fouling at out of every game if he was playing another 8-10 minutes a night. 

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    Ok, since Im a respectful person, We will have to agree to disagree but since you asked, I will tell how I see it. If Sully can get 16 pts in 30 plus minutes without any plays called for him, why is so hard to believe he could score 20 with touches?? I understand maybe saying he doesnt get the minutes to do it, but if you think he is incapable then you dont know Sully.  Most times he posts up he gets Ideal position on the low block(something not everyone can do....ahem K.G.) and they ignore him but the rare occasion they do and he looks to score, He DOES!  He was a post up assasin in college and if we can give the ball to baby in the post we sure as h3ll should w/sully because he is miles better offensively and he is only playing now cuz he can defend well enough for the most part but his strengh is offense and with touches he could absolutely get 20 n 10. maybe not every night but dude is legit and will make u eat your words, IMO

    [/QUOTE]

    1. first, there is a question if he is even in good enough shape to play 30 minutes a night, but with that said, even if he is, once again, he leads the team in fouls and is play 17 MINUTES A NIGHT. to illustrate further, in his last 62 minutes he has 11 fouls. he couldn't stay on the court for thirty minutes because he's fouling at a rate that would have him out of every single game before he hit 30 minutes. doesn't matter if the fouls are really fouls, he's getting poor treatment from the refs, etc. this is the reality of his play so far. it'll get better - the refs will learn his game, he'll learn what he can and cannot get away with. he's a rookie. 

    2. your statement that when they get the ball to him in the low post he scores is simply not true.  in fact, he struggles mightily to get shots up against even average defenders right now and has had his shot blocked a bunch. his points have come almost exclusively off put backs (which he struggles with when defended), dish offs when other people drive to the hoop getting him uncontested layups, and 15 foot set shots. the point isn't whether or not he will get better in the low post - of course he will, it's that right now he's still figuring it out. let him acclimate.

    3. now that we've established that he couldn't stay on the court right now for 30 minutes,  your hyperbolic statement that he could get 20 points a night if they would just give him the ball give him is absurd. let the kid have one game where he scores 20 before annointing him a perennial all-star and designing an offense around him. you just clearly don't have a concept of what it takes to average 20 points and 10 rebound per game as a rookie in the NBA. you know who has done that? - alonzo mourning; bob petit; ralph sampson; bill russell; hakeem olajawon; maurice stokes; tim duncan; blake griffin; shaq; david robinson; jerry lucas; larry bird; wes unseld; elvin hayes; elgin baylor; kareem; walt bellamy; oscar robinson; and wilt chamberlain. every one of the eligible retired players is in the h.o.f.

    4. getting it done in college is a lot different than getting it done in the pros. especially for a guy with serious vertical challenges. kid fell to 21 for a reason. and he's turned out to be a great pick as MANY here thought he might be. he might make some people eat their words, but not me. I loved the pick; I love him as a player. And I'm very encouraged by his play. I'm just realistic about what he is and ins't right now. you are not. 

    5. AGAIN, as I said, love the kid. think he's going to be a solid nba player, but to ignore his struggles, and annoint him unrealistically does no one any good. he's being brought along at exactly the right pace. he's playing as much as he is able and his minutes will likely grow as we move along and he learns how to stay on the court, be in the right position defensively, and find his offense within the flow of the game. AGAIN, his smarts and his rebounding is not in question. he has a nice little shot from 15. he' shooting 80-% from the line. what's not to love? getting to a point where is playing 25 minutes a night, and averaging 10-8 would be a very realistic goal for him this year. and that will put him in the upper echelon of rookies statistically. 

     

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    This is all fine, but didnt take that much writing to explain. I know b-ball, we just are talking about two different things. You are talking about him not being able because of foul trouble. I am just saying he is able. I disagree with your asessment of him and his ability. I think its a stretch to say he gets his shot blocked a ton when in the same post you talk about  his lack of minutes. If he isnt shooting, how can he be constantly getting his shot blocked.??? I havent seen that and I didnt see it last game. I recall in the Cavs game we let them hang around while we kept turning it over and taking bad shots while they ignored Sully in the post with PRime real estate.  There was no shot blocker and to me going inside is always the best thing and then work outside. I think he could offer more offensively but they dont choose to use him. Like I told people after the draft, rookie or not - 6'8" 270 is still 6'8" 270 no matter where u play and he uses his body well. Its not about unfair expectations, its about giving the guy a shot, and please dont act like you know how many minutes he can go because to this point he hasnt had any of the issues we heard and I chalk it up to pre-draft haterade

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    no, we're talking about the same thing - you're just not making your points very well and/or obstinately not understanding the ones being put across. you're free to disagree with anything you want, but don't disagree with salient points by providing silly statements and expect no response in return. I've watched sullinger play in the rookie leagues and in every minute of this year's season and there was no question there were concerns about his fitness level going into the season. I'm not at practice and don't actually know what level of shape he's in - seems okay to me, but it's far from a wildly posed question, particularly as doc expressed concerns last week about certain players not being in good enough shape to play big minutes. the point about him being able to be out on the floor for extended minutes due to his fouling issues is a huge key to his productivity levels and is exactly on point. when speaking about how he's getting his points, I'm talking about where he's had success scoring the ball. he has had his shot blocked, though unlike big baby who is still getting his shot blocked a lot, sullinger is clearly already learning he's in trouble against defenders that are taller than him and in most cases jump higher than he does, and therefore has backed off trying to challenge people at the basket when gaurded. you don't seem to understand or know this. this isn't college basketball. but you touting his low post moves and saying he can average 20 points a game if he'd just get the ball isnores the fact that he has gotten the ball in the post plenty and he does what he is forced to do - kick it out, because he is struggling to find ways to score on his own. when he's attemoted to make low moves and drive the ball to the hoop he's had trouble. that's a fact. it's not made up. and the fact that he's gotten his shot blocked plenty in no way contradicts his lack of minutes so that isn't even logical. not sure you actually have watched all the games, pal. what you should say is I like sullinger and I think he should play more and he could score a little more and I was being hyperbolic when I said he could average 20 a night and I was ignoring his foul issues when saying he needs to get more time and ignoring the fact that he's struggling with finding ways to score on his own. then we could agree we both like sullinger and want him to play as much as possible. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Sullinger is the real deal...!

    Tonight will be a good test for Sully. I'm happy to let his game do the talking...as Eldunker points out the case against him becoming an All Star is his relative size, which will make his low post game in the NBA more challenging than what he had faced before. He'll have to make changes and adaptations. Two plays from the Nets game stick out for me in this regard: on one he hung in the air and let the player trying to block his shot fly by and kissed a bunny in on off the window....sweet, sweet, play. On the other play he tried a left handed baby hook over a taller player and missed...opposite hand scoring challengng but doable (think Bird, McHale, even Dwght Howard who has developed his left hand shot), but adjusting his shotting angles to get shots up over taller defenders from 4 to 6 feet away will be more challenging. Ultimately I think Sully has a lot of upside which may make him a second or third team all star.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Sullinger is the real deal...!

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    from an overall standpoint, not sure how anyone is getting too hyped about beating a nets team that is barely above .500. and was 1-5 in their previous 6 games with deron williams calling out his team for their stagnant and selfish offensive play. that was a bad, disinterested team that showed up today and other than the little run they had they offered little in the way of resistance. the team's top three players all had terrible games. this is not an indication of what it's been like when the celts have faced off against the better teams in the league and there have been lots of very ugly performances.

    in terms of sullinger - he obviously looked great. but those decrying his lack of playing time shiould look a little more closely at his game to game perfrormance. one, he has been drawing fouls like a machine. in short, it's not as if sullinger has been knocking them dead on a nightly basis - he has been very shaky game to game. a solid perfromance is often followed by one involving quick fouls, a turnover, bad positioning on defense, etc. with that said, he simply demands more time and they're going to have to grow with him. he is going to make mistakes and doc is not crazy about playing guys who make lots of mental errors (like most rookies do). 

    green is thankfully seeming to finally get into the flow of the offense a little bit and the past two weeks have been significantly better for him personally, but this team has to continue working really hard to get him the ball, to run more, and to continue to acclimate him. for those getting excited about green and his "worthy-esque" talents (based on the fact that he has a similar ability to grip the ball and drive one handed) be advised that that is a severely premature comparison. no one with any familiarity with green had any questions about his ability to drive the ball or shoot threes so his abilities should come as no surprise. you watched him play 3 1/2 seasons in seattle/OKC, right? his skill set is not in question - his toughness; aggressiveness; assertiveness; and ability to play team d at a high level and generally blend with this team are. 

    green so far is averaging 22.8 minutes per game; 9.8 pts and barely 3 (count em, 3) rebounds a game. at 8-9 million per something like 16/6 or 7 would be in line for a 6 "9" forward who they are counting on to score. this is not s shoutdown defender we're talking about; green is an offensive player and needs to provide offense. it is a no brainer that he needs more time on the court (both because his talent demands it; because of bass' poor play, etc.) and he is getting it, but he is not currently rebounding well enough at the 3 and absolutely would kill them on the boards at the 4. we'll see what happens with his output. you have to love the talent, but this guy has to get tougher and get more accomplished on a nightly basis. 

    all of this is moot if a legit big man (and hopefully two) are not acquired. but AB getting healthy and green's play are two of the most important compments afetr that to the celts having any chance to make noise. 

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    Rookies dont get calls and Sully has YET to even be given the ball in the post. He is basically being treated like a garbage man and you expect him to do what exactly when playing 20 min. or less with no touches?? I thought up until now, he has been a good soldier considering his position in college and the numbers he put up. He just hustles up and down the floor, rebounds, gets his put backs and  has come a long way in regards to defense and rotations. Cut the guy some slack. If they fed him the ball and gave him minutes, I have no doubt he could give 20 and 10 a night

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    love sullinger. think he's going to be a solid nba player. the fact that rookies can't get calls is part of the problem of being a rookie in the NBA and one of the things working against him - yiou're helping to make my point. your supposition that he can go out and score 20 points a game is based on what exactly? certainly not his offensive performance so far. you actually belive that his play on the offensive end of the court demands that he get the ball in the low post? he can't do anything with the ball when he gets it there. he's having trouble even getting contested shots off, let alone posessing the capability to lead a team in scoring. there are 10 players in the NBA averaging 20 points or more right now and i doubt anyone but you thinks he's capable of going out and averging 15 points a game right now, let alone 20. talk about unfair expectations. 

    in terms of being a good solider... again, he's a rookie. what exactly do you think rookies do in the NBA? unless you're a can't miss prospect and/or go to a really bad team in a top three pick, very few rookies start (there's about 6 starting right now depending on the night and a few of these are because of injury) or even make significant contributions to their teams, so not sure your perception of rookies in the NBA is at all accurate. believe me, sullinger is happy to be getting the minutes he's getting right now. playing 17 minutes a night he leads the team in fouls. in terms of rookies he's at 1 or 2 in terms of rebounding per minute, which is great. he's also fouling at a rate that would have him fouling at out of every game if he was playing another 8-10 minutes a night. 

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    Ok, since Im a respectful person, We will have to agree to disagree but since you asked, I will tell how I see it. If Sully can get 16 pts in 30 plus minutes without any plays called for him, why is so hard to believe he could score 20 with touches?? I understand maybe saying he doesnt get the minutes to do it, but if you think he is incapable then you dont know Sully.  Most times he posts up he gets Ideal position on the low block(something not everyone can do....ahem K.G.) and they ignore him but the rare occasion they do and he looks to score, He DOES!  He was a post up assasin in college and if we can give the ball to baby in the post we sure as h3ll should w/sully because he is miles better offensively and he is only playing now cuz he can defend well enough for the most part but his strengh is offense and with touches he could absolutely get 20 n 10. maybe not every night but dude is legit and will make u eat your words, IMO

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    1. first, there is a question if he is even in good enough shape to play 30 minutes a night, but with that said, even if he is, once again, he leads the team in fouls and is play 17 MINUTES A NIGHT. to illustrate further, in his last 62 minutes he has 11 fouls. he couldn't stay on the court for thirty minutes because he's fouling at a rate that would have him out of every single game before he hit 30 minutes. doesn't matter if the fouls are really fouls, he's getting poor treatment from the refs, etc. this is the reality of his play so far. it'll get better - the refs will learn his game, he'll learn what he can and cannot get away with. he's a rookie. 

    2. your statement that when they get the ball to him in the low post he scores is simply not true.  in fact, he struggles mightily to get shots up against even average defenders right now and has had his shot blocked a bunch. his points have come almost exclusively off put backs (which he struggles with when defended), dish offs when other people drive to the hoop getting him uncontested layups, and 15 foot set shots. the point isn't whether or not he will get better in the low post - of course he will, it's that right now he's still figuring it out. let him acclimate.

    3. now that we've established that he couldn't stay on the court right now for 30 minutes,  your hyperbolic statement that he could get 20 points a night if they would just give him the ball give him is absurd. let the kid have one game where he scores 20 before annointing him a perennial all-star and designing an offense around him. you just clearly don't have a concept of what it takes to average 20 points and 10 rebound per game as a rookie in the NBA. you know who has done that? - alonzo mourning; bob petit; ralph sampson; bill russell; hakeem olajawon; maurice stokes; tim duncan; blake griffin; shaq; david robinson; jerry lucas; larry bird; wes unseld; elvin hayes; elgin baylor; kareem; walt bellamy; oscar robinson; and wilt chamberlain. every one of the eligible retired players is in the h.o.f.

    4. getting it done in college is a lot different than getting it done in the pros. especially for a guy with serious vertical challenges. kid fell to 21 for a reason. and he's turned out to be a great pick as MANY here thought he might be. he might make some people eat their words, but not me. I loved the pick; I love him as a player. And I'm very encouraged by his play. I'm just realistic about what he is and ins't right now. you are not. 

    5. AGAIN, as I said, love the kid. think he's going to be a solid nba player, but to ignore his struggles, and annoint him unrealistically does no one any good. he's being brought along at exactly the right pace. he's playing as much as he is able and his minutes will likely grow as we move along and he learns how to stay on the court, be in the right position defensively, and find his offense within the flow of the game. AGAIN, his smarts and his rebounding is not in question. he has a nice little shot from 15. he' shooting 80-% from the line. what's not to love? getting to a point where is playing 25 minutes a night, and averaging 10-8 would be a very realistic goal for him this year. and that will put him in the upper echelon of rookies statistically. 

     

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    This is all fine, but didnt take that much writing to explain. I know b-ball, we just are talking about two different things. You are talking about him not being able because of foul trouble. I am just saying he is able. I disagree with your asessment of him and his ability. I think its a stretch to say he gets his shot blocked a ton when in the same post you talk about  his lack of minutes. If he isnt shooting, how can he be constantly getting his shot blocked.??? I havent seen that and I didnt see it last game. I recall in the Cavs game we let them hang around while we kept turning it over and taking bad shots while they ignored Sully in the post with PRime real estate.  There was no shot blocker and to me going inside is always the best thing and then work outside. I think he could offer more offensively but they dont choose to use him. Like I told people after the draft, rookie or not - 6'8" 270 is still 6'8" 270 no matter where u play and he uses his body well. Its not about unfair expectations, its about giving the guy a shot, and please dont act like you know how many minutes he can go because to this point he hasnt had any of the issues we heard and I chalk it up to pre-draft haterade

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    no, we're talking about the same thing - you're just not making your points very well and/or obstinately not understanding the ones being put across. you're free to disagree with anything you want, but don't disagree with salient points by providing silly statements and expect no response in return. I've watched sullinger play in the rookie leagues and in every minute of this year's season and there was no question there were concerns about his fitness level going into the season. I'm not at practice and don't actually know what level of shape he's in - seems okay to me, but it's far from a wildly posed question, particularly as doc expressed concerns last week about certain players not being in good enough shape to play big minutes. the point about him being able to be out on the floor for extended minutes due to his fouling issues is a huge key to his productivity levels and is exactly on point. when speaking about how he's getting his points, I'm talking about where he's had success scoring the ball. he has had his shot blocked, though unlike big baby who is still getting his shot blocked a lot, sullinger is clearly already learning he's in trouble against defenders that are taller than him and in most cases jump higher than he does, and therefore has backed off trying to challenge people at the basket when gaurded. you don't seem to understand or know this. this isn't college basketball. but you touting his low post moves and saying he can average 20 points a game if he'd just get the ball isnores the fact that he has gotten the ball in the post plenty and he does what he is forced to do - kick it out, because he is struggling to find ways to score on his own. when he's attemoted to make low moves and drive the ball to the hoop he's had trouble. that's a fact. it's not made up. and the fact that he's gotten his shot blocked plenty in no way contradicts his lack of minutes so that isn't even logical. not sure you actually have watched all the games, pal. what you should say is I like sullinger and I think he should play more and he could score a little more and I was being hyperbolic when I said he could average 20 a night and I was ignoring his foul issues when saying he needs to get more time and ignoring the fact that he's struggling with finding ways to score on his own. then we could agree we both like sullinger and want him to play as much as possible. 

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    Do you care to prove this. I mean I watch the games too. I see a guy not looking for his offense and taking a backseat to more established players. I DID recognize your point about foul trouble but I said that wasnt MY point. I was saying if you take out the foul trouble he could score this. Lets get back to what I originally said. I said he could get 20 and 10. Is this something you can debate?? Do you really think he is incapable, taking out any side factors. You keep saying he cant score in the post but you cant prove it so its more about how you percieve it I guess, but he doesnt get his shot blocked anymore than any other player IMO. He is learning every game and sure maybe he isnt as athletic as Blake Griffin but doesnt mean he cant score. Look at Boozer, he scores and has no hops and is about the same size so like i said we just disagree, no big deal so move on.

     
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