Tainted Championship

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Driscoll92587. Show Driscoll92587's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    Yes, youtube is definitely a smoking gun.  The ability to upload says volumes.  I've rewatched the entire fourth quarter a couple times and there's nothing...the travel call on Gasol... I think it's funny that the Patron Saint of Conspiracy Theories, Donaghy himself, even says this game wasn't thrown.  And I've talked to fans of every team as well...and a ton of Celtics fans.  Not about whether the game was rigged or not though.  Because it didn't come up.  All that was discussed was how Boston looked really tired, how their defense got lazy in the 4th, leading to early foul trouble, and how the Lakers just wanted it more.  But that's cause I talk to adults.  I do enjoy this thread though...pure entertainment here.  Let's keep it going.  Normally I don't like rubbing in a victory, but with the handful of whiners here, I'm loving it.  Woohoo!
    Posted by jofc


    I'll have to say that both teams were wiped out by the 4th quarter.  Hard fought battle all the way through.

    Concerning the 4th quarter:  My one issue was the way the first 3 quarters were called compare to the 4th.  Now I'm not saying there were calls that shouldn't have been made, because they were fouls on the C's.  It's simply the way in which the refs let both teams play through the first 3 quarters and called a tight game in the 4th.  That was the big factor that led to the C's downfall.  Rewatch the entire game, or even the third qtr compared to the 4th.  It was just a different style of officiating and the Lakers adjusted better than the C's. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : As you porbably know, 7 game finals are pretty rare in the NBA. The one before this Lakers-Celtics one was the Spurs-Pistons. Without looking at a box score, I doubt that the Spurs shot 21 free throws in the 4th quarter. Although, I am pretty sure that Popovich did not run his starters totally into the ground like Doc did without using his bench. So, the conclusion: every situation is different. Yeah, statistically 21 free throws looks bad. But, those starters were not moving their feet well in the 4th quarter. Should have used Nate and TA more. I am sure that Doc has some regrets about that. 
    Posted by ControllerMod


    I have seen the fourth quarter over and over again and I can't find one instance where there is an indication that the Celtics were "run into the ground" or not "moving there feet"...if anything the Lakers look more tired. These were not fouls called because, like some Laker trolls on here have said, they were grabbing and clutching. Find me one grab by anyone. No the problem was a complete change in how the game was called. Contact that was not a foul in the first quarter was in the fourth. And even more so ...contact that the Lakers put on the Celtics remained uncalled...Gasol over Garnetts back ..no foul out of bounds off Garnett...Gasol over Rondo...no foul...phantom call on miniscule contact by big baby on Gasol while Garnett is hacked by Gasol and there is not a call.

    The theme you LA fans have been promoting is that the Lakers were more aggressive the Celtics tired. The film doesn't prove that out. The Celtics were making baskets. The very tired Lakers were given bailout foul shots after missing. There were two clean blocks by Celtics called fouls there were two hacks by the Lakers not called fouls...and on and on. That is what happened and why this will continue to be a tainted championship.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : Sorry to hear someone's deleting your posts.  Again, even though we disagree, your posts are always full of substance and add to the conversation.  Strange that they'd get deleted when tons of trolls post here with no repercussion.  One of these days, if I get time, I'm going to edit down that fourth quarter to show the fouls and non-calls.  Maybe start a separate post and go over them, just to see how everyone sees each call.  I know there are some that fans will flat out disagree on (e.g the Kobe 3 point foul), but I'd be curious to see some of the other ones. Keep posting man!
    Posted by jofc


    Somewhere back a couple of hundred posts ago I did exactly that for an assortment of calls and non calls with the time made and the affect on the game.
    While I don't think the Kobe trickery on Allen in which Kobe intentionally brought the ball out and up in an exaggerated fashiong to catch Allens arm should have been called...i have seen Pierce do the same thing with the same result. That one should have been a no call but I can live with it. There are many others which I cannot.

    This was not a conspiracy. This was incompetence and through the discussion of this maybe we reduce the chances for similar incompetence in the future.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : Figures - this guy thinks there's a conspiracy about everything. I know, Rajon, you don't take it seriously, we all need to relax, blah blah blah First, the championship is tainted, and now the moderators are deleting your posts and no one else's...................makes one wonder............. I am against censorship of any kind, however, this is not censorship.  This is a mercy killing.  For the sake of good and decent Celtics fans everywhere, this thread needs to die.  It is a total joke.
    Posted by BirdandCowens


    Why don't you just stop reading it. And by all means just stop posting on it. If it is a joke then you a fool for keeping it going with your posts.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : I'm afraid it's you that's the embarassment.  Did you read my post on the home team winning?  I thought even you and Rajon would get that one.  It's not tainted, it's not a conspiracy against the Celtics or for the lakers.  In the NBA, for whatever reason, the home team usually wins.  Hopefully, we will have a better record next year and get home court advantage!
    Posted by BirdandCowens


    -

    Spoken like a true NBA apologist as well as a Boston apoligist.

    Some of us don't feel that we have to apologize to anyone for our opinions. 

    Some of us believe that the NBA is broken and in need of fixin.  That the championship is tainted.

    Some of us believe that our view should not be censored like they have been doing to me on this thread, deleting 6 or 7 posts just because I was defending my self from personal attacks from the would be censors.

    We get everything you write:  you don't agree with us, you think the NBA is on the up and up, and you probably still think there were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. 

    Ok.  We credit you with having the intelligence to analyze things and come up with your opinion.  Why can't you grant people with an opinion different than yours the same respect?

    It's tainted in our opinion, but we still welcome you to argue your point ad infinitum.  Just, please, don't try to censor us.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : Nice quotes, very original.  Isn't it past your bedtime?
    Posted by BirdandCowens


    Thank you, Sir, another personal attack.  What great character you exhibit. 

    I have no curfew.  That's cause I'm smart as a whip.

    What were you, 562 on the Taint thread.  I knew you'd be a big help.

    If we file a class action suit against the NBA for collusion, tampering, corrupt refs, and fixing games will you support us?

    The truth will win out, and I expect there to be a thorough analysis of Game 7 of the Finals before all is said and done.  It will be part of a Congressional Investigation.

    I look forward to many more of your astute posts as you help us along.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : If you were as smart as you say, why don't you represent "us'' in this lawsuit. A real lawyer would cost way too much money, and you'd lose BIG anyway.  NO, I will have no part of it, and it was you who threw the first punch.  Smart as a whip, eh?      naw, I'm not seeing it!
    Posted by BirdandCowens


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    You are off topic again.  Attacking me again.  This thread is about what some posters here believe is a tainted championship, a fixed game, and a corrupt NBA.

    I didn't throw any punches.  I just called out people for trying to censor this thread, and I have the posts to prove it.  I copy every post I write and respond to.

    You said:  " . . it's a Freedom of Speech thing. This thread should be moved - it has run its' course!!

    As contradictory as that reads, you said it, you want the thread moved, I would guess, because you just don't like it.  Instead of ignoring it and not reading or posting here you want it removed from the forum or moved to an archive or something.

    That's not freedom of speech, my friend, that's censorship.

    I simply stood up for freedom of speech and the right of the posters who want to discuss this tainted championship to do so. 

    If I don't like a thread, I just ignore it:  I don't ask for it to be removed.  I'm against trolls and abuse, and abusive as you have been towards me for what you perceive as my wrongs, I have not reported you.

    This thread has been heavily edited lately and I suspect because of false abuse reports that got many of my threads removed.  But I have them all saved.

    I guess your efforts at censoring this thread have so far failed.  People are still able to debate the Tainted Championship.

    And you will be surprised at what one person can do within the legal system to bring a corrupt organization to curb for it's fraudulent activities.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jofc. Show jofc's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    Woah...hold up guys.  BirdandCowens has 100% the right to call out other fans for being a poor representation.  I call out Laker trolls for making the LA fanbase look bad, and BirdandCowens is doing the same thing here. 

    Let's not get hypocritical by saying who can't post here, and why.  Everyone can.

    You guys are trying to 'call out' the nba for what you perceive as a conspiracy...or rigging...or whatever you're calling it.  And B&C is calling you out for being what he sees as a poor example of celtics fans.  it's all fair game. 


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from cavaliersfan. Show cavaliersfan's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

               My wife and I rooted for the Celtics.  She said: "Uh-Oh! the refs are calling a different game in the 4th quarter" (game 7).  I am not an expert, but this is what I honestly thought went on, in general.   For three quarters, for both teams, medium to ticky tacky calls were not made.  Medium to severe calls were made.  Starting the 4th quarter the refs called the game very close.  They called all kinds of contact.  Did both teams know in advance this type of switchup was going to occure ???  Maybe yes , maybe no.  It was a horrible way to officiate a game.  It reminded me of the WWF.  Also, the fans are in no position to know what really went on.  The NBA gets egg on their face again!  The game was tainted.  Also there could have been some blown calls.  I only saw part of the You Tube Finals 4th Quarter.  When I find some more time, away from the rat race life I'm running, I'd like to study the video more closely.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    Woah...hold up guys.  it's a Freedom of Speech thing. This thread should be moved - it has run its' course!!
     I call out Laker trolls for making the LAit's a Freedom of Speech thing. This thread should be moved - it has run its' course!!
     fanbase look bad, and BirdandCowens is doing the same thing here.  Let's not get hypocritical by saying whit's a Freedom of Speech thing. This thread should be moved - it has run its' course!!
    o can't post here, and why.  Everyone can. You guys are trying to 'call out' the nba for what you perceive as a conspiracy...or rigging...or whatever you're calling it.  And B&C is calling you out for being what he sees as a poor example of celtics fans.  it's all fair game. 
    Posted by jofc


    -

    I just said in a previous post that BC is welcome to argue his points here ad infinitum:  what we don't want is for him to try to censor the thread and have it removed.  Get it?

    The thread has a topic, and as you said "BirdandCowens has 100% the right to call out other fans for being a poor representation." 

    But is that on topic?  Or should BC start his own thread to debate that topic as it seems to be off topic on this thread?

    This thread and the posters who believe in it are under attack, as you can see by the post of mine that was deleted this afternoon right after I posted it.  You can see it above your reply, but you can't see my actual post because it was deleted.  Why?  You read it.  You tell me.

    Go back to your post of 7/28 at 12:36pm EDT.  You'll see my post that you responded to is quoted above your post.  But my original post is nowhere to be found?  That's censorship.  That's what I'm fighting for, the right to debate freely what some of us believe is a corrupt NBA that resulted in a tainted championship.

    It really has little to do with birdancowans except that he wants the thread censored and removed instead of just going on his way and ignoring it or starting a thread of his own to comment on how we make Boston fans look bad as if any one on this thread cares about that.  I don't apologize for myself or for Boston, nothing to apologize for, in my opinion.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    "Some of us don't feel that we have to apologize to anyone for our opinions."

    True, absolutely, but it's a myth that all opinions are equally valid. Some opinions simply are backed up by more facts, more balance, more perspective, more nuance to see all sides. Those opinions carry more weight.

    For example, if you argue that the NBA needs improving, you have few arguments from anyone. But if you take the leap to say that it is fixed, your burden of proof gets much higher. Suddenly you must explain why it is the Celts beat the Cavs when the Cavs versus the Lakers would have been a much more glamourous Bron vs Kobe showdown.. Suddenly you have to explain why it mattered to the NBA that the Celts/Lakers in the finals needed to go the Lakers' way, when in fact all the NBA wants is high ratings which it got. Suddenly you have to explain why the ratings-challenges Spurs (and the Jazz before them) have had so much success. Here's the worst part: once you insist a championship is tainted, nothing will stop fans of that team from coming back at you that your team's rings are tainted also. No one wins that. It's a self-defeating position, one only worth arguing if you actually have proof that games were swung. But proof will be hard to find, especially when there is no clear motive for swinging games to LA versus Boston. Did David Stern give Ray Allen a call and say "you need to go so cold that there's no chance your team can win?" Did he call Doc and say "you have to keep calling iso plays for Pierce even though they aren't working?"

    I for one don't mind people disagreeing and like outspoken views (and am opposed to censorship) but don't like poorly researched and illogical notions backed up by the flimsly "I have a right to my opinion." yes, we all do. Now we need to educate ourselves. 


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    " Some of us don't feel that we have to apologize to anyone for our opinions." True, absolutely, but it's a myth that all opinions are equally valid. Some opinions simply are backed up by more facts, more balance, more perspective, more nuance to see all sides. Those opinions carry more weight. For example, if you argue that the NBA needs improving, you have few arguments from anyone. But if you take the leap to say that it is fixed, your burden of proof gets much higher. Suddenly you must explain why it is the Celts beat the Cavs when the Cavs versus the Lakers would have been a much more glamourous Bron vs Kobe showdown.. Suddenly you have to explain why it mattered to the NBA that the Celts/Lakers in the finals needed to go the Lakers' way, when in fact all the NBA wants is high ratings which it got. Suddenly you have to explain why the ratings-challenges Spurs (and the Jazz before them) have had so much success. Here's the worst part: once you insist a championship is tainted, nothing will stop fans of that team from coming back at you that your team's  rings are tainted also. No one wins that. It's a self-defeating position, one only worth arguing if you actually have proof that games were swung. But proof will be hard to find, especially when there is no clear motive for swinging games to LA versus Boston. Did David Stern give Ray Allen a call and say "you need to go so cold that there's no chance your team can win?" Did he call Doc and say "you have to keep calling iso plays for Pierce even though they aren't working?" I for one don't mind people disagreeing and like outspoken views (and am opposed to censorship) but don't like poorly researched and illogical notions backed up by the flimsly "I have a right to my opinion." yes, we all do. Now we need to educate ourselves. 
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker


    Very good points, each and every one.  It will be difficult to prove, but smoking guns will be found.  We already know that refs gamble on games, that ratings are important, that it is in the leagues interest for series to go seven games, that big market teams get favorable treatment, that the league lets players collude to go from small market teams to big market teams, a la Cleveland and Toronto.

    People make light of the notion of conspiracy, and I was just accused of claiming there is a conspiracy against me on this thread, but anyone can go back to pages 26 and 27, maybe even 25 of this thread and see all the posts of mine that were deleted.  Most of them are right there, quoted right above the replies to them, even though the posters who were attacking me, their posts are still there.  Now maybe that's  not a conspiracy, just poor moderation, but it is a fact that many of my posts were deleted.  Look for yourself. 

    That's called a "smoking gun". 

    Do you really think it is impossible that a smoking gun might turn up tomorrow that implicates the NBA in some form of wrongdoing?  Many of us believe that the League and the congress squelched the ref investigation, but that is still alive and it will be coming back.  Where there's smoke there's fire, and so I agree with you that it will be difficult to prove, but just like the trolls who come along to help us up the number of posts on this thread, someone will come along with evidence that will shine  a light on the NBA.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    Woah...hold up guys.  BirdandCowens has 100% the right to call out other fans for being a poor representation.  I call out Laker trolls for making the LA fanbase look bad, and BirdandCowens is doing the same thing here.  Let's not get hypocritical by saying who can't post here, and why.  Everyone can. You guys are trying to 'call out' the nba for what you perceive as a conspiracy...or rigging...or whatever you're calling it.  And B&C is calling you out for being what he sees as a poor example of celtics fans.  it's all fair game. 
    Posted by jofc


    Let's be clear here. I started this thread and I never used the word conspiracy or rigging. So when you say "you guys" you are not being accurate. I think it was incompetence and if an honest discussion of the 4th quarter was actually held and not suppressed by Stern then maybe the league would be more likely to take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

    As I said, not only were the Celtics team and fans robbed, the Lakers and it's fans were robbed too by being denied a legitimate or controversy free title based on the quality of the play of their team. If this game was called evenly (competently) then the result in all likelihood would have been different.

    And all NBA fans were robbed as well. As I tried to articulate in my first post...there is a culture in fandom and sport which promotes the idea that a bad call to end an game or a few bad calls in a game are just the "breaks" and not worthy of more than a passing discussion. I am arguing that what we saw in game 7 rises above that to a level of incompetence so that the whole body of work we call the NBA "game" has been injured. Maybe it doesn't ever have to happen again. Maybe it doesn't matter what is written here but, then again, in the blogosphere there is already much being written and I suspect that in the coming years this game and the incompetent refereeing will be mentioned again and again. If there is a conspiracy, which I doubt, then it should be exposed. But what is worse a conspiracy or systematic incompetence in the NBA? Isn't the NBA really about the fans? And aren't we entitled to compentence, especially in a game so important to us as the 7th game of the Championship series? Isn't Stern's suppression of any discussion of the incompetence of the refs bad for the game in certain instances? Like this one.

    This whole thread is wrapped around the idea that the fans deserve better than they got. The Lakers deserved better and certainly the Celtics deserved better. If we can't get it then maybe we should rethink the level of interest and importance we should willing to append to the sport. The WWF is still popular and maybe the NBA can remain popular in the same vein.

    For me a person who has loved the sport since childhood, and as a person who has always been part of the culture of not giving a bad call anything more than a passing reference to it being the "breaks", I think we have a responsibility to our sport to discuss this. I'm sorry if someone else doesn't but they are entitled to their opinion and don't have to read or participate in the discussion. As for their attempts to suppress it or their need to discuss whether it is appropriate to complain about the level of incompetence which generated the whole thing to begin with, maybe they should start a new thread to talk about that.

    A good reputation is the only thing we really have to lose and once lost is very very difficult to regain.



     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : Let's be clear here. I started this thread and I never used the word conspiracy or rigging. So when you say "you guys" you are not being accurate. I think it was incompetence and if an honest discussion of the 4th quarter was actually held and not suppressed by Stern then maybe the league would be more likely to take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. As I said, not only were the Celtics team and fans robbed, the Lakers and it's fans were robbed too by being denied a legitimate or controversy free title based on the quality of the play of their team. If this game was called evenly (competently) then the result in all likelihood would have been different. And all NBA fans were robbed as well. As I tried to articulate in my first post...there is a culture in fandom and sport which promotes the idea that a bad call to end an game or a few bad calls in a game are just the "breaks" and not worthy of more than a passing discussion. I am arguing that what we saw in game 7 rises above that to a level of incompetence so that the whole body of work we call the NBA "game" has been injured. Maybe it doesn't ever have to happen again. Maybe it doesn't matter what is written here but, then again, in the blogosphere there is already much being written and I suspect that in the coming years this game and the incompetent refereeing will be mentioned again and again. If there is a conspiracy, which I doubt, then it should be exposed. But what is worse a conspiracy or systematic incompetence in the NBA? Isn't the NBA really about the fans? And aren't we entitled to compentence, especially in a game so important to us as the 7th game of the Championship series? Isn't Stern's suppression of any discussion of the incompetence of the refs bad for the game in certain instances? Like this one. This whole thread is wrapped around the idea that the fans deserve better than they got. The Lakers deserved better and certainly the Celtics deserved better. If we can't get it then maybe we should rethink the level of interest and importance we should willing to append to the sport. The WWF is still popular and maybe the NBA can remain popular in the same vein. For me a person who has loved the sport since childhood, and as a person who has always been part of the culture of not giving a bad call anything more than a passing reference to it being the "breaks", I think we have a responsibility to our sport to discuss this. I'm sorry if someone else doesn't but they are entitled to their opinion and don't have to read or participate in the discussion. As for their attempts to suppress it or their need to discuss whether it is appropriate to complain about the level of incompetence which generated the whole thing to begin with, maybe they should start a new thread to talk about that. A good reputation is the only thing we really have to lose and once lost is very very difficult to regain.
    Posted by gtown07


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This post was started by this person(s) and 570 or so posts later with much rehashing of statistics, egregious phantom fouls, non call fouls, disparity in fouls, I found the text explanation of the results of Game 7 just as insightful and, perhaps more so, in this current post many weeks later.

    I am not one who ever said there was a conspiracy, fix etc. Face it, if the refs bet on the game, they still did not allow the Lakers to beat the 7 1/2 pt Vegas spread. I commented a few times that it was the unhappiest $100.00 I ever won. In no way do I compare this to the tragedy of 9/11. The outcome was not life & death. As a child I would lose sleep for days when the Celtics or Red Sox lost. And as a senior, I've realized it's only a game & there are many more important things in life but I did toss & turn for a few nights very unhappy. But as we say re: 9/11, Let's not ever forget !!! The game was, unquestionably, decided by, if not crooked refs, incompetent ones and in an important game 7 yet and some acknowledgement from the league regarding this might ease the wounds of some Celtic fans and put this issue at least a bit to rest.

    I agree with the post that not only did the Celtics get cheated but the Laker fans & all NBA fans did too. How can the Lakers be proud of a team that shot 32%(we shot 40%), their guy who walks on water shot 6-24 (25%) and they shot 25-37(68%) foul shots & we 15-17(88%) and with their extra 10 points they needed 20 fouls shots or 50% to do it-pretty pathetic for a championship team-seems our defense was pretty good too at the foul line ! It really would have been interesting to have read the LA Sports writers comments on Kobe's 25% and the team's 32% had they lost !!! 

    Now, and I've said this before, you can or cannot accept my word for this, but had the Celtics won by 4pts with the same statistics as the Lakers, I would as a fan naturally been happy BUT I WOULD HAVE CONSIDERED US EXTREMELY LUCKY THAT THE REFS FAVORED US !!! AND THAT'S THE TRUTH !!!

    Many Lakers are still whining about 2008. When your team loses in 6( not 7 by 4 pts with above difference in stats) by 39 points, that is total domination. If we had lost game 7 similar to the Lakers dominating game 6, I think we'd have felt "YUP, they're the better team". 

    Anyway, read gtown07's post again, it is an accurate explanation of why the true basketball world got cheated...Amen !!!



     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from guyfromtex. Show guyfromtex's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This post was started by this person(s) and 570 or so posts later with much rehashing of statistics, egregious phantom fouls, non call fouls, disparity in fouls, I found the text explanation of the results of Game 7 just as insightful and, perhaps more so, in this current post many weeks later. I am not one who ever said there was a conspiracy, fix etc. Face it, if the refs bet on the game, they still did not allow the Lakers to beat the 7 1/2 pt Vegas spread. I commented a few times that it was the unhappiest $100.00 I ever won. In no way do I compare this to the tragedy of 9/11. The outcome was not life & death. As a child I would lose sleep for days when the Celtics or Red Sox lost. And as a senior, I've realized it's only a game & there are many more important things in life but I did toss & turn for a few nights very unhappy. But as we say re: 9/11, Let's not ever forget !!! The game was, unquestionably, decided by, if not crooked refs, incompetent ones and in an important game 7 yet and some acknowledgement from the league regarding this might ease the wounds of some Celtic fans and put this issue at least a bit to rest. I agree with the post that not only did the Celtics get cheated but the Laker fans & all NBA fans did too. How can the Lakers be proud of a team that shot 32%(we shot 40%), their guy who walks on water shot 6-24 (25%) and they shot 25-37(68%) foul shots & we 15-17(88%) and with their extra 10 points they needed 20 fouls shots or 50% to do it-pretty pathetic for a championship team-seems our defense was pretty good too at the foul line ! It really would have been interesting to have read the LA Sports writers comments on Kobe's 25% and the team's 32% had they lost !!!  Now, and I've said this before, you can or cannot accept my word for this, but had the Celtics won by 4pts with the same statistics as the Lakers, I would as a fan naturally been happy BUT I WOULD HAVE CONSIDERED US EXTREMELY LUCKY THAT THE REFS FAVORED US !!! AND THAT'S THE TRUTH !!! Many Lakers are still whining about 2008. When your team loses in 6( not 7 by 4 pts with above difference in stats) by 39 points, that is total domination. If we had lost game 7 similar to the Lakers dominating game 6, I think we'd have felt "YUP, they're the better team".  Anyway, read gtown07's post again, it is an accurate explanation of why the true basketball world got cheated...Amen !!!
    Posted by mandobello

    Great Post
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheCommentator. Show TheCommentator's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    I replayed the 4th quarter the other night and unbiasedly decided that all of the calls, besides a few, were legit calls.  The supposed Gasol shove on Rondo was difficult to tell.  All you can see is Rondo go flopping. 

    I play hoops and when you get tired you start fouling, because you don't want your guy to beat you.  This is what happened to the Celtics.  They were just spent.  I watched KG not even leave his feet for a rebound late in the fourth.  The Lakers just played harder and wanted it more.

    All this talk about refs this and refs that, is nothing more than bitter complaints by Celtics fans who know their team had 'em by 13 in the fourth, but ran outta' gas in the end.  A bitter pill to swallow, indeed.
     
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    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : 1.  Apparently not.  jofc is smart enough to recognize that saying someone is "allowed" to do something, and actually letting them do it are two different things.  I don't want the thread censored, I want it moved to around the NBA, as I believe it has run its' course.  Nothing else to say, and you are certainly not going to do anything about it,  "He is allowed to write whatever he wants...."  as long as I don't disagree with you and gtown, right?  This thread is about a "Tainted Championship".  I disagree that it is tainted, the home team usually wins in the NBA, look it up.  2.  Again, we've all had posts deleted.  What we learn is that you can't repost the same thing over and over again.  Every time you mention "lawsuit", the post is deleted.  See a pattern here.  This is NOT a public forum, it is privately owned.  Therefore, THEY make the rules.  There is no FOS here, really, and your incessant whining to Dottie and to us about your posts being deleted is almost martini-like is its' arrogance. 3.  Still on topic here, so don't bother using that excuse again, as I am responding directly to things you wrote.  I live in So Cal now, and I have to deal with lakers fans everyday.  WE have a bad reputation as sore losers.  Even though most of them are hypocrites and are still whining about 2008  (there should be an asterik because Bynum and Ariza were hurt).  See, WE don't like it when they say that, it's sour grapes.  jofc gets that, he is a great lakers fan.  And I refuse to be a hypocrite and sound like them.  2008 was clean, 2009 was clean, and 2010 was clean. I think you also need to look up the word "apologist".  Mr. Webster says, " one who argues in defense of a person or cause."   WHO is the apologist here?  That would be you.  This is your cause, not mine.  And you ARE apologizing for yourself and for Boston.  But you don't speak for me.
    Posted by BirdandCowens


    -

    But this thread is about the Celtics and their losing the finals in a very suspicious manner:  it does not belong in Around the NBA, but right here in Celtics:  Front Burner where it has been since in its inception.  Censorship disguised as some other repressive tactic is still censorship.

    Neither myself nor gtown07 ever stated that there was a conspiracy involved to rob the Celtics, just that there are systemic problems with the NBA as it is currently constituted and run.


    Gtown made a great point in this paragraph I quote:

    "And all NBA fans were robbed as well. As I tried to articulate in my first post...there is a culture in fandom and sport which promotes the idea that a bad call to end an game or a few bad calls in a game are just the "breaks" and not worthy of more than a passing discussion. I am arguing that what we saw in game 7 rises above that to a level of incompetence so that the whole body of work we call the NBA "game" has been injured. Maybe it doesn't ever have to happen again. Maybe it doesn't matter what is written here but, then again, in the blogosphere there is already much being written and I suspect that in the coming years this game and the incompetent refereeing will be mentioned again and again. If there is a conspiracy, which I doubt, then it should be exposed. But what is worse a conspiracy or systematic incompetence in the NBA? Isn't the NBA really about the fans? And aren't we entitled to compentence, especially in a game so important to us as the 7th game of the Championship series? Isn't Stern's suppression of any discussion of the incompetence of the refs bad for the game in certain instances? Like this one."

    And I also support gtown when he says:

    "This whole thread is wrapped around the idea that the fans deserve better than they got. The Lakers deserved better and certainly the Celtics deserved better. If we can't get it then maybe we should rethink the level of interest and importance we should willing to append to the sport. The WWF is still popular and maybe the NBA can remain popular in the same vein."

    But this is where he really got me:

    "I think we have a responsibility to our sport to discuss this. I'm sorry if someone else doesn't but they are entitled to their opinion and don't have to read or participate in the discussion. As for their attempts to suppress it or their need to discuss whether it is appropriate to complain about the level of incompetence which generated the whole thing to begin with, maybe they should start a new thread to talk about that." 

    Gtown07 says it all very well.

    So all the name-calling, attacks, and wild accusations on posters here who support this thread and advocate against censorship, will be like water off a ducks back.  Better to just stick to the topic.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from HarryMangurian. Show HarryMangurian's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
               My wife and I rooted for the Celtics.  She said: "Uh-Oh! the refs are calling a different game in the 4th quarter" (game 7).  I am not an expert, but this is what I  honestly  thought went on, in general.   For three quarters, for both teams, medium to ticky tacky calls were not made.  Medium to severe calls were made.  Starting the 4th quarter the refs called the game very close.  They called all kinds of contact.  Did both teams know in advance this type of switchup was going to occure ???  Maybe yes , maybe no.  It was a horrible way to officiate a game.  It reminded me of the WWF.  Also, the fans are in no position to know what  really  went on.  The NBA gets egg on their face again!  The game was tainted.  Also there could have been some blown calls.  I only saw part of the You Tube Finals 4th Quarter.  When I find some more time, away from the rat race life I'm running, I'd like to study the video more closely.
    Posted by cavaliersfan


    The voice of reason
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ControllerMod. Show ControllerMod's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    I replayed the 4th quarter the other night and unbiasedly decided that all of the calls, besides a few, were legit calls.  The supposed Gasol shove on Rondo was difficult to tell.  All you can see is Rondo go flopping.  I play hoops and when you get tired you start fouling, because you don't want your guy to beat you.  This is what happened to the Celtics.  They were just spent.  I watched KG not even leave his feet for a rebound late in the fourth.  The Lakers just played harder and wanted it more. All this talk about refs this and refs that, is nothing more than bitter complaints by Celtics fans who know their team had 'em by 13 in the fourth, but ran outta' gas in the end.  A bitter pill to swallow, indeed.
    Posted by TheCommentator


    I agree about the tiredness in the 4th quarter by the Celtics. Gtown07 differs from most that have written about the game in that he thinks that the Lakers looked more tired. That was the first that I saw of that observation. With no Celtic bench player other than Big Baby getting more than 5 minutes of PT, for the Celtics starters to be fresher than the Lakers in crunch time is kind of amazing. The closeout by Rondo on Fisher's big 3 pointer and the closeout by Pierce on Artest both looked tired to me.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenkillme. Show greenkillme's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : I agree about the tiredness in the 4th quarter by the Celtics. Gtown07 differs from most that have written about the game in that he thinks that the Lakers looked more tired. That was the first that I saw of that observation. With no Celtic bench player other than Big Baby getting more than 5 minutes of PT, for the Celtics starters to be fresher than the Lakers in crunch time is kind of amazing. The closeout by Rondo on Fisher's big 3 pointer and the closeout by Pierce on Artest both looked tired to me.
    Posted by ControllerMod


    I don't see tiredness in the shots the Celtics were making. I do see tiredness in the poor Laker shooting. The Celtics were making plays and shots and the Lakers were only making foul shots. The Lakers looked tired and I'm not alone in this analysis. Gasol was going through people for rebounds instead of moving into position. The problem was he wasn't called for the fouls. Both Artest and Kobe pushed into their defender to get off a shot instead of making a move to get open. Tired play no doubt. Both teams were tired. The argument that the Celtics were tired and so fouled more doesn't stand up to scrutiny on the fouls that they were called for. Two fouls called were clean blocks. Another foul called on BB was not a foul at all. The argument that the Lakers were less tired and thus more aggressive doesn't stand up when you consider the physical contact they generated and how it was handled by the refs as compared to the contact the Celtics received and how it was handled by the refs. The Celtics didn't just not get one call. They didn't get any of the calls. This was one of those cases which Phil Jackson talks about ...the refs got caught up in the game and lost track of what they were doing. In doing so they blew it.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenkillme. Show greenkillme's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : EXACTLY my point.  This thread was started on 6/18.  It has been "discussed" ad nauseum since then.  You two have made your point.  We get that.  We know there will be no lawsuit, you have no case.  You want the NBA "fixed".  We get that, too.  But you do not mention how to do it.  It is illogical to hire all new officials, they have a union.  Stern won't retire or resign.  The only thing we have is to not go or not watch, that's it!!  You two cannot "fix" the NBA - they don't think it's broken.  It is a multi-billion dollar corporation.  You want some say, go buy a team - Stern does listen to the owners.  We have an obligation to "discuss" this - NOT file a lawsuit. And, it has been discussed, point made, counter-point made.  We need to finish our bench with the last two pieces and get ready for training camp.  2010 season is over, and we lost.  I am as sorry we did as you are - maybe MORE so, as I have to live with these people - but if the loss is tainted, as you claim, don't you think other teams can make the same claim?  In 2002, a referee ADMITTED a game was fixed, to extend the series, in favor of the lakers.  Anything done about that one?  Has the NBA even admitted any culpability?  While your thoughts are admirable, and probably just, you are wasting your time.  That was 8 years ago, and it is not "tainted".  I really think it is time to move on now.  That is my considered opinion, and I'm sticking to it!
    Posted by BirdandCowens


    In reading your posts I find it hard to believe you aren't a poser and not a Celtic fan at all. Otherwise why don't you just ignore the thread. It is doing nothing to you and from what I have read in blogs all over the country it is pretty much a consensus that the 4th quarter was one of the worst reffing jobs anyone has seen. LA fans excluded of course.

    I don't get you. Why do you bother to participate if this is a waste of time.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : In reading your posts I find it hard to believe you aren't a poser and not a Celtic fan at all. Otherwise why don't you just ignore the thread. It is doing nothing to you and from what I have read in blogs all over the country it is pretty much a consensus that the 4th quarter was one of the worst reffing jobs anyone has seen. LA fans excluded of course. I don't get you. Why do you bother to participate if this is a waste of time.
    Posted by greenkillme

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    you must do a lot of traveling. when was game 7 played? talking about it won't change anything. it's over. move on.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wuzzup. Show wuzzup's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    The same sorry arsed half dozen losers still talking about "tainted" stuff????

    How disfunctional is that???




    You guys must all hang out at the same public library.  Run to open computer at 9:00AM and have preprinted signs that say, "Gone to the bathroom; Be back in 10 minutes"...

    Even BirdandCowens, you're own buddy, says, "Dudes, let's move on.  There's more important things..."

    For us in LA, this victory is the sweetest because Boston fans are still crying, "We was robbed!"

    When we go for the 3-peat, my only regret is you idiots won't be there...Boston won't make another final in the next 6-7 years, at best.

     

    Kobe crushed your summer, but you all made mine.  Keep up this thread, please.  It's hilarious!


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ControllerMod. Show ControllerMod's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : I don't see tiredness in the shots the Celtics were making. I do see tiredness in the poor Laker shooting. The Celtics were making plays and shots and the Lakers were only making foul shots. The Lakers looked tired and I'm not alone in this analysis. Gasol was going through people for rebounds instead of moving into position. The problem was he wasn't called for the fouls. Both Artest and Kobe pushed into their defender to get off a shot instead of making a move to get open. Tired play no doubt. Both teams were tired. The argument that the Celtics were tired and so fouled more doesn't stand up to scrutiny on the fouls that they were called for. Two fouls called were clean blocks. Another foul called on BB was not a foul at all. The argument that the Lakers were less tired and thus more aggressive doesn't stand up when you consider the physical contact they generated and how it was handled by the refs as compared to the contact the Celtics received and how it was handled by the refs. The Celtics didn't just not get one call. They didn't get any of the calls. This was one of those cases which Phil Jackson talks about ...the refs got caught up in the game and lost track of what they were doing. In doing so they blew it.
    Posted by greenkillme


    I always respected the Jordan Bulls under Jackson. When they got a series in their favor 3-2, they always closed it out either at home or away. They did not want to take a chance on what might happen with the refs and with their shooting touch in a game 7. The beat Portland at home in game 6. They beat the Suns at Phoenix in game 6. They beat the Sonics at home in game 6. They beat the Jazz at home in game 6. And they beat the Jazz at Utah in game 6. Phil and MJ knew that anything can happen in a game 7. That's why the effort that the Celtics put forth in game 6 was so hard to understand. Admittedly Perk went down early. But to totally mail that game in, I will never understand the thinking. That was the game to leave it all on the line. Things happen in game 7. Maybe the refs got caught up in the excitement of the home crowd pulling for their team. The real brass ring was laying there for the taking in game 6. That was the one that got away.
     
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