Tainted Championship

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from OPKIII. Show OPKIII's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : Yes, just as I originally stated, the Lakers gave up Marc Gasol as part of the deal, since they had his rights. Whether or not he actually played for the Lakers is inconsequential. The Grizzlies got a 15 and 10 young stud as part of their future, which is what they were looking after, their future. If you can't see that I was clearly correct the first time, and you were in fact incorrect when trying to chastise me for lack of knowledge, you are a moron. Gasol was property of the Lakers, and they traded him to Memphis in that deal, just like I said. You said they aquired a pick that became Marc Gasol, which is in fact incorrect. So take the exactly.... as if you were correct, and know you were wrong.
    Posted by Bobbarcker


    I know, you never said that, right??
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from OPKIII. Show OPKIII's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : Yes, just as I originally stated, the Lakers gave up Marc Gasol as part of the deal, since they had his rights. Whether or not he actually played for the Lakers is inconsequential. The Grizzlies got a 15 and 10 young stud as part of their future, which is what they were looking after, their future. If you can't see that I was clearly correct the first time, and you were in fact incorrect when trying to chastise me for lack of knowledge, you are a moron. Gasol was property of the Lakers, and they traded him to Memphis in that deal, just like I said. You said they aquired a pick that became Marc Gasol, which is in fact incorrect. So take the exactly.... as if you were correct, and know you were wrong.
    Posted by Bobbarcker


    I'll start a poll if you really want.  This says the Grizz got a 15 and 10 STUD............how can he be a stud with no NBA mins on his resume.  I'm not twisting anything.  Every time you respond, you look dumber.  YOU said that.  You didn't say - he is NOW a 15 and 10 stud, you said, "they  GOT a 15 and 10 stud."  Can't you admit when your wrong..... typical lakers arrogance....what is your major malfunction........you have a reading comprehension problem........you must be a moron...................
    just giving  you some of your wonderfully intelligent rebuttals.  The trade was totally one sided - even my lakers fans out here in LA admit that.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from OPKIII. Show OPKIII's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : That right there is what I am talking about. You are making a whole argument over semantics. We are not having a conversation in a vacuum here. The particulars of that trade are very open and in public view, nobody tried to deceive you moron. I have stated repeatedly what I was implying, and yet, still, here you are trying to make an argument over a word. A  semantical argument over nothing.  To be clear, the Grizzlies acquired Marc Gasol from the Lakers in that trade, and he has become a starting center that nets 15 and 10. Now that we can see with hindsight, the trade turned out to be a lot less one sided that most people thought it would. Now, if you can not understand what I am trying to tell you, you are an idiot. Marc Gasol is a 15 and 10 stud, and who has him? The Grizzlies, that is who has got him on their roster. How did they get him on their roster? Thats right, they got him in the trade from the Lakers. Regardless of what you thought I was implying, I have tried over and over to explain it further to you. You refuse to accept it, because you are a moron. All of this back and forth because you thought I should have phrased it differently. It was a public trade, everyone with half a brain, and rudimentary knowledge of that trade knew/knows exactly what I was saying. 
    Posted by Bobbarcker



    What a wonderful, classy retort.  Your intelligence shows with every moron and idiot you write.  Run out of words today, did you?  Perhaps you should edit your comments before sending them.  Pau Gasol was gift wrapped to the lakers.  The fact Marc Gasol is a decent player is irrelevant.  If the trade never happened (which it wouldn't if Bynum never got hurt), who would have Gasol?  The lakers?  Would he be a 15 and 10 "stud".  Probably not!!  For Mitch Kupchak knows more about basketball than you and I put together.  I am quite sure if he thought Marc Gasol was going to be a "stud", he would not be a throw-in in that deal.  Are you saying Kupchak is an idiot and moron, too?  How could he trade someone with such an upside?  Did he panic because Bynum got hurt, and he HAD to do something to catch Phoenix?  Did he underestimate Marc' s potential.  SOMEONE dropped the ball here, if the guy is that good.
    Kwame Brown - bust
    Aaron McKie - was retired at the time
    Marc Gasol - 0 NBA titles, not as good as his brother, one good year under his belt.
    And a first round pick this year.

    Sounds pretty on-sided to me!!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from CelticFanLA. Show CelticFanLA's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    Marc Gasol is 4 years older than Bynum and 4 years younger than his brother.  At 21, Pau averaged 17.6 and 8.9 rebounds - the lowest numbers of his career.  Marc is 25 and has never averaged that for a season - his brothers lowest numbers. Don't see how he "projects" better than his brother.  At 25, Marc's age now, Pau averaged 20 ppg and 8.9 rpg. That is a fair comparison, at the same age! Nope, Pau is much better, and always will be - gift wrap!!
    Posted by OPKIII


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Correction, Paul is better because he plays with Kobe.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from OPKIII. Show OPKIII's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    Pau:
    Career Season Averages
    Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
    01-02 MEM 82 79 36.6 0.518 0.200 0.709 2.9 6.0 8.9 2.7 0.5 2.1 2.73 2.38 17.6
    02-03 MEM 82 82 35.9 0.510 0.100 0.736 2.3 6.4 8.8 2.8 0.4 1.8 2.60 2.68 19.0
    03-04 MEM 78 78 31.5 0.482 0.267 0.714 2.6 5.1 7.7 2.5 0.6 1.7 2.40 2.37 17.7
    04-05 MEM 56 53 31.9 0.514 0.167 0.768 2.3 5.0 7.3 2.4 0.7 1.7 2.45 2.61 17.8
    05-06 MEM 80 80 39.2 0.503 0.250 0.689 2.4 6.5 8.9 4.6 0.6 1.9 2.94 2.30 20.4
    06-07 MEM 59 59 36.2 0.538 0.273 0.748 2.5 7.3 9.8 3.4 0.5 2.1 2.75 2.32 20.8
    07-08 LAL 27 27 34.0 0.589 0.000 0.789 2.3 5.6 7.8 3.5 0.5 1.6 1.63 2.00 18.8
    07-08 MEM 39 39 36.7 0.501 0.267 0.819 2.4 6.4 8.8 3.0 0.4 1.4 2.05 2.18 18.9
    08-09 LAL 81 81 37.0 0.567 0.500 0.781 3.2 6.4 9.6 3.5 0.6 1.0 1.94 2.12 18.9
    09-10 LAL 65 65 37.0 0.536 0.000 0.790 3.7 7.6 11.3 3.4 0.6 1.7 2.20 2.34 18.3
    Career -- 649 643 35.8 0.521 0.220 0.743 2.7 6.2 9.0 3.2 0.5 1.7 2.44 2.36 18.8
    All-Star -- 3 0 17.0 0.526 0.000 1.000 3.3 5.3 8.7 0.7 0.7 0.3 0.33 2.00 9.0
    Career Season Totals


    Marc:


     Recent Career FG3PTFTReboundsMisc
     Year Team Min  MAPct MAPct MAPct OffDefTot AstTOStlBlkPFPPG 
     2008-09MEM8230:41 4.38.153.0 0.00.00.0 3.44.673.3 2.54.97.4 1.72.00.81.13.211.9 
     2009-10MEM6935:47 5.59.458.1 0.00.00.0 3.75.567.0 3.06.39.3 2.42.01.01.63.714.6 
     Career15133:00 4.88.755.5 0.00.00.0 3.55.070.2 2.75.58.3 2.02.00.91.33.413.1 

    Last updated through games completed on Jun 17, 2010

     

     

    Looks EXACTLY as "fair" as everyone initially thought!



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bobbarcker. Show Bobbarcker's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : Marc Gasol an All-Star??? He's not even as good as Bynum - who isn't an All-Star
    Posted by OPKIII


    I said if he keeps improving and reaches that level. He is very young, it is early in his NBA career. He is projecting upward nicely toward that level. He may get there, or maybe he wont. He was projected to be as good or better than Pau when he is developed. Again, we are talking about two franchises that are working two different strategies. One, the Lakers, are working with a window that is here and now. The other, the grizzlies are working at building from scratch for the future. Things are going as planned for both clubs, considering what the goals were. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from OPKIII. Show OPKIII's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    Marc Gasol is 4 years older than Bynum and 4 years younger than his brother.  At 21, Pau averaged 17.6 and 8.9 rebounds - the lowest numbers of his career. 
    Marc is 25 and has never averaged that for a season - his brothers lowest numbers.

    Don't see how he "projects" better than his brother.  At 25, Marc's age now, Pau averaged 20 ppg and 8.9 rpg.

    That is a fair comparison, at the same age!

    Nope, Pau is much better, and always will be - gift wrap!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from OPKIII. Show OPKIII's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : The Lakers have a window for winning that is right now. They needed a player ready to go right now. Pau Gasol was ready right now. Marc Gasol was a player who needed to be developed for the future. The Grizzlies wanted to prepare for the future, hence the desire for expiring contracts, and young potential talent. It was not in the best interest of the Lakers to keep a guy with future potential, when they needed a player here and now is it? Twist and spin all day long, but the trade is evening out as the time passes on. If Marc Gasol keeps improving, and gets to all-star status, this move starts to look good for the Grizzlies. Make no mistake though, the potential of Marc Gasol was well known in NBA circles, before that trade was ever made. Now that it has panned out, The Trade is a lot less one sided. I don't care if you disagree or not, at least you are not arguing BS semantics anymore. Idiot.
    Posted by Bobbarcker



    Marc Gasol an All-Star??? He's not even as good as Bynum - who isn't an All-Star
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Casportsfan. Show Casportsfan's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    I have read many of your posts and I have to say that yes we have to move on but I for one would like to know if the NBA is basketball's equivalent to the World Wrestling Entertainment. There can be no denying that the Lakers benefitted immensely from the officiating. The number of fouls called were overwhelmingly in the Lakers favor, there were tons of phantom calls against the Celtics, just as there were tons of fouls not called on the Lakers for obvious violations. The refs clearly tilted this evenly matched series in the Lakers favor. It is no consolation to me that Boston still almost won the series despite the officiating, injuries, home court advantage, etc.... Because of the suspicious officiating in this series I believe that there should be a Congressional hearing to see if the Finals were compromised. We all deserve to know if this series was rigged. I have to say to Laker fans: If you believe that your team legitimately won the series why not agree to a Congressional hearing to prove to us that your team won fair and square?
    Posted by guyfromtex



    My favorite stat was what someone posted from the 2008 championchip, game 2:

    Boston 38 free throws . . . LA 10 free throws.

    I'm a Laker fan. That's 28 more free throws.  Was it fixed then?  NOPE.  Get over it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rsalas67m. Show rsalas67m's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    I want to congratulate the Celtics for their tenacity, competiveness and getting to the finals when no one gave them a chance to get beyond the first round. The Celtics also helped the Lakers indirectly by giving them HOME COURT, which was HUGE. But that's the system we have, the rules are predetermined.

    That said, one could theoretically argue that every NBA title is tainted because the application of the rules CAN NEVER BE UNIFORM OR CONSISTENT. Human beings are having to decide what is acceptable in the course of a physical, high-speed, contact sport. And human beings are fallible.

    As a result, some players and teams push the envelope. They don't know how the game is going to be officiated. With an aggressive, physical team like the Celtics, if the game is called tight, it's likely that they will be at a disadvantage. If the game is called loose, they should have the advantage. You want to blame the refs, believe that there was a conspiracy, feel that if only Perkins hadn't been "intentionally" injured that the Celtics would be the champs. Believe what you want. That is your prerogative.

    But I would argue that the NBA is not just a sport. It's also entertainment. And the moment you start to truly believe that it functions perfectly, you are bound to be disappointed. 28 other teams did not make it to the finals and some of their fans will also raise a stink about why they lost.

    In the end, whoever wins an NBA title, did so with a lot of intangibles before them, including some luck. I'm glad L.A. won but I'm not going to delude myself that in the larger scheme of things, this is only a game where great athletes put a ball in an elevated hoop.

    I enjoy the competition, I understand that this is simply a distraction to be appreciated with all its flaws. Good luck in the next season because these titles are always transitional.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from guyfromtex. Show guyfromtex's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    I have read many of your posts and I have to say that yes we have to move on but I for one would like to know if the NBA is basketball's equivalent to the World Wrestling Entertainment. There can be no denying that the Lakers benefitted immensely from the officiating. The number of fouls called were overwhelmingly in the Lakers favor, there were tons of phantom calls against the Celtics, just as there were tons of fouls not called on the Lakers for obvious violations. The refs clearly tilted this evenly matched series in the Lakers favor. It is no consolation to me that Boston still almost won the series despite the officiating, injuries, home court advantage, etc.... Because of the suspicious officiating in this series I believe that there should be a Congressional hearing to see if the Finals were compromised. We all deserve to know if this series was rigged. I have to say to Laker fans: If you believe that your team legitimately won the series why not agree to a Congressional hearing to prove to us that your team won fair and square?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Casportsfan. Show Casportsfan's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : When you beat a team by 39 points, I would have to say that no fix was necessary!
    Posted by guyfromtex


    I hate to tell you, but they only won game 2 by 6 points . . . . . 28 more free throws, 6 pt game.  You have no answer for that do you, because it doesn't fit your conspiracy theory.




     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from guyfromtex. Show guyfromtex's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : My favorite stat was what someone posted from the 2008 championchip, game 2: Boston 38 free throws . . . LA 10 free throws. I'm a Laker fan. That's 28 more free throws.  Was it fixed then?  NOPE.  Get over it.
    Posted by Casportsfan


    When you beat a team by 39 points, I would have to say that no fix was necessary!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    You would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to have seen the phantom calls, the missed calls for clear violations, and the discrepancy in calls..all overwhelmingly in the Lakers favor. If it is so much of a concern to so many people, why not investigate further to see if there is truth in what is being said. There must be a fairness in competition in professional sports. The refs are human and will make mistakes. As I have mentioned in several of my posts prior to and during these Finals their (the refs) mistakes tend to balance out between the teams. That just didn't happen in this series. If for example, I were to toss a coin 200 times it would be unlikely that I would get "heads" 150 times and yet that is what happened in this series with the favorable calls that the Lakers received. Particularly in the games that were in doubt for the Lakers.
    Posted by guyfromtex


    I don't know about a congressional hearing but I do know that this wasn't one or two calls it was a dozen bad calls..I think, given the response I'm hearing everywhere nationwide except for LA fans, that we have not heard the end of this unless there is a coverup.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OPKIII. Show OPKIII's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : When you beat a team by 39 points, I would have to say that no fix was necessary!
    Posted by guyfromtex


    Advice:  Waste no further time on this guy.  He claims he would have been okay had the Celtics won!!  Does it seem that way to you?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mike1986. Show Mike1986's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    I'm as disapointed as the next Celtics fan, but the Lakers won this series fair and square.  As for the refs (except for games 6 and 7), there was an equal amount of bad calls on both teams.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mike1986. Show Mike1986's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    I thought I'd look back to 2008 to see if I could find any foul descrepencies. Game 2 in Boston the Celtics beat us 108 to 102. Had the Lakers won that game, they would have had momentum heading into L.A. which would have turned that entire series on its head. The foul descrepency in that game was 38 to 10 in favor of the Celtics. Did Lakers fans complain? I'm sure they did but not at the level you see here. It seems like all Celtics fans have to blame someone for their teams failure. Too bad.
    Posted by EliasB


    I'm sure Lakers fans complained as much as Celtics fans did.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : I'm sure Lakers fans complained as much as Celtics fans did.
    Posted by Mike1986


    Big difference in how it happened in that game..The refs didn't give the Celtics 20 more foul shots in the fourth quarter .....and it wasn't the title game. Not really comparable at all.

    The 2010 title game was blown by the refs. And this title is forever to be tainted by what they did.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from guyfromtex. Show guyfromtex's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    You would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to have seen the phantom calls, the missed calls for clear violations, and the discrepancy in calls..all overwhelmingly in the Lakers favor. If it is so much of a concern to so many people, why not investigate further to see if there is truth in what is being said. There must be a fairness in competition in professional sports. The refs are human and will make mistakes. As I have mentioned in several of my posts prior to and during these Finals their (the refs) mistakes tend to balance out between the teams. That just didn't happen in this series. If for example, I were to toss a coin 200 times it would be unlikely that I would get "heads" 150 times and yet that is what happened in this series with the favorable calls that the Lakers received. Particularly in the games that were in doubt for the Lakers.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Casportsfan. Show Casportsfan's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : When you beat a team by 39 points, I would have to say that no fix was necessary!
    Posted by guyfromtex


    Pathetic answer by the way.  Grow up man.  Lakers beat the Celts by 22 in game 6 and it could have been worse.  Again, same logic you use thrown back in your face.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Casportsfan. Show Casportsfan's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    "You would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to have seen the phantom calls," Not seeing is just blind.  Deaf and dumb don't play a part.  hehehe. Seriously, casportsfan is bringing up a very valid point, which is game 2 of last years finals.  It was very lopsided.  You can youtube the game and see for yourself.  Plust the FTA discrepancy of 38 to 10...4x the free throws for Boston.  And unlike the Celtics this year, the Lakers were actually attacking the basket, the refs just ignored the fouls for the Celtics...then called everything on LA.  It was terrible officiating but it wasn't a conspiracy. Look, I'm going to represent your logic, from a 2008 perspective. If the refs had called game 2 fairly, LA would've gone back with a split.  Then, they won 2 at home, meaning going to Boston down 3-2.  They lose game 6 and force a game 7...who knows who really would've won.  The 08 championship is tainted. See, the problem is, when you try to take away championships, you end up losing some yourself.  All the trophies count.  All the rings count.  All the banners count.  We won this year, we were the better team.  But not by much.
    Posted by jofc



    Exactly, and good points . . . . . . I find it interesting how people are saying, "It wasn't 1 bad call it was TWELVE" or, "you'd have to be deaf, blind, and dumb NOT to see the bad calls", but then you have guys like Brian Scalabrini, an actual BOSTON PLAYER, who stated on air the the officials did a great job.  Not shaky, not decent, but great.

    And then you had guys like Jeff Van Gundy and Marc Jackson, with REAL NBA knowledge that only debated 4 or 5 calls the enitre game, and often disagreed, meaning the call was clearly grey and wasn't biased towards either team.

    It's funny how these people are suddenly the experts, and the experts are well, deaf, dumb, and blind?  Van Gundy, Marc Jackson, and Scalabrini are deaf, dumb, and blind.

    What you'll see also is that they'll twist the logic towards their favor in any case that it appears counterproductive to their whacky argument.  Case in point:  Game 2 of 2008 finals.  In that case a 28 ft descrepancy is juuuuust fine.  Same EXACT scenerio, but they'll find any number of screw ball reasons why that result was o.k, "all the free throws didn't come in the 4th", or "they won the deciding game by 39 pts so they didn't need help", or "LA was a soft perimeter team that year".  LOL, as if 28 more free throws doesn't help during the first 3 quarters, as if the NBA was goiung to fix a game (for the sake of argument) they'd have any idea what would happen 4 games later to decide the seriers.

    There it is, plain as day.  They are completely fine with it if it favors their team, but if it doesn't, then there needs to be an investigation by congress LOL. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jofc. Show jofc's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    "You would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to have seen the phantom calls,"

    Not seeing is just blind.  Deaf and dumb don't play a part.  hehehe.

    Seriously, casportsfan is bringing up a very valid point, which is game 2 of last years finals. 

    It was very lopsided.  You can youtube the game and see for yourself.  Plust the FTA discrepancy of 38 to 10...4x the free throws for Boston.  And unlike the Celtics this year, the Lakers were actually attacking the basket, the refs just ignored the fouls for the Celtics...then called everything on LA. 

    It was terrible officiating but it wasn't a conspiracy.

    Look, I'm going to represent your logic, from a 2008 perspective.

    If the refs had called game 2 fairly, LA would've gone back with a split.  Then, they won 2 at home, meaning going to Boston down 3-2.  They lose game 6 and force a game 7...who knows who really would've won.  The 08 championship is tainted.

    See, the problem is, when you try to take away championships, you end up losing some yourself. 

    All the trophies count.  All the rings count.  All the banners count. 

    We won this year, we were the better team.  But not by much.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mike1986. Show Mike1986's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : I don't know about a congressional hearing but I do know that this wasn't one or two calls it was a dozen bad calls..I think, given the response I'm hearing everywhere nationwide except for LA fans, that we have not heard the end of this unless there is a coverup.
    Posted by gtown07


    Have the Celtics players themselves complained about bad calls in game 7?  If so, give me a link to what they said.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mike1986. Show Mike1986's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    all these idiots always have an excuse for Kobe. Do they expect him to win a Championship by himself? Idiots. Even Michael Jordan had another great player next to him. Scottie Pippen.
    Posted by felalejo


    What exactly did Kobe say that ticked off Michael Jordan's son?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from guyfromtex. Show guyfromtex's posts

    Re: Tainted Championship

    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship:
    In Response to Re: Tainted Championship : I don't know about a congressional hearing but I do know that this wasn't one or two calls it was a dozen bad calls..I think, given the response I'm hearing everywhere nationwide except for LA fans, that we have not heard the end of this unless there is a coverup.
    Posted by gtown07


    Agreed. I have been watching NBA Finals for many many years and I have never seen such lopsided officiating. Now I am not saying that there was a conspiracy I have just never seen so many missed calls and phantom calls. Nearly all of which benefitted the Lakers. I also find it strange that there was a huge increase in those calls everytime it seemed like the Celtics would win. This is indeed a tainted championship.
     
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