TANK OR TRADE

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seriously, Duncan has never averaged less than 8.9 rebounds per game in his 16 year career.

    KG is averaging a career low 7.0 rpg this season.

    Come on!

    [/QUOTE]

    So - we know Duncan is a better player than KG.  Duncan is the best power forward to play the game and can play center.  Bigger, stronger, and better suited for rebounding with his size and strength at this stage of their careers.   That's like asking why Pierce isn't scoring like Kobe or why Rondo isn't as good as Chris Paul.   They are better players....we know that.  

    So what that KG is only averaging 7 boards?  He's playing center when at his size he shouldn't be asked to do that and unlike Duncan, he doesn't have a Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw to help him (KG has Collins!!!) and he has to show out front on defense where Duncan can stay closer to the basket.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wicksandrowe. Show wicksandrowe's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    Body type and team philosophy might explain a 3-rebound difference.

    Garnett's a light, spidery, tentacle, vertical rebounder who's lost some lift and quickness. Duncan's more floor-bound and gets 1 or 2 body-mass rebounds that Garnett never gets.  

    SA commits to the offensive glass. Duncan has averaged about 3 offensive boards, but is now down to almost 2. The offensive boards phobic Celtics retreat immediately. And it's impossible to own-rebound a missed fade away jumper. Garnett has averaged about 2.5 and since being with the offensive boards phobic Celtics is down to less than 1 per game. 

    Duncan's down about 2 rebounds from his career average of 11.2

    Garnett's down about 3 rebounds from his career average of 10.5

    Looks like a push to me...statistically. 

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Celtsfan

    Last season the Celts offered Rondo to the Lakers for Pau Gasol. The Lakers declined and almost all the people here were so grateful that the Lakers didn't do the deal. 

    Rondo had one hell of a playoffs last season, right?

    Everybody here was so happy that the Celts reached the ECF and Rondo was playing very well.

    This season, the Celts have 10 new players and the Celts are struggling. But Rondo is averaging 11.6 apg and 5.1 rpg. He's also shooting better this season compared to last season. Sure he gambles too much on defense. But that's also what he did in the playoffs last season. So I disagree that Rondo is a part of the Celts' struggles this season. 

    KG is a bigger problem than Rondo right now.

    [/QUOTE]  Then how come every time KG goes out of a game, the same thing happens,we lose the lead, or we fall farther behind. Rondo has the ball 80% of the time, i could get 11 overrated assists if i had the ball that long, he's scared to death to create contact when going to the rim, for fear he will have to shoot free throws. He is shooting 54% yet no one guards him, because they want him to shoot! He gets a few rebounds because he is able to go where he wants because the other team don't pay attention to him. When he does give up the ball he becomes as useless to the team as Collins, so we're playing 3 on 5, if i were Pierce and KG i would welcome a trade of Rondo!!  To use one of your lines, once a Brick, always a Brick!!  By the way, Happy New Year!!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Celtsfan

    Last season the Celts offered Rondo to the Lakers for Pau Gasol. The Lakers declined and almost all the people here were so grateful that the Lakers didn't do the deal. 

    Rondo had one hell of a playoffs last season, right?

    Everybody here was so happy that the Celts reached the ECF and Rondo was playing very well.

    This season, the Celts have 10 new players and the Celts are struggling. But Rondo is averaging 11.6 apg and 5.1 rpg. He's also shooting better this season compared to last season. Sure he gambles too much on defense. But that's also what he did in the playoffs last season. So I disagree that Rondo is a part of the Celts' struggles this season. 

    KG is a bigger problem than Rondo right now.

    [/QUOTE]

    The price of Rondo averaging 11.5 assists vs 8.5 assists is that he holds the ball and doesn't attempt to score himself.  I'd rather take say 8.5 assists and see him attack the rim, create baskets for others by swinging the ball faster, and scoring more points.  11.5 assists is a nice stat, but its not winning games for us.

    And.....yes, Rondo steps up in the post season.  That proves my point.  He can do more in the regular season if he simply tries to do that rather than being so inconsistent.  

    Fierce, you should do a poll and see just how many fans can see that Rondo, as good as he CAN be, is currently part of the Celtics problem.  When a team is struggling like we do, there are multiple reasons and Rondo is one of the reasons.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    [/QUOTE]


    Basically what you're saying is we need more from Rondo.

    The facts don't support your claim. Rondo's not the problem, he just has to do more.

    But I have proof about KG being a bigger problem than you think.

    After KG came back from injury in 2009-10, he averaged 14.3 ppg and 7.3 rpg. The Celts only won 50 games that season.

    The following season, 2010-11, KG averaged 14.9 ppg and 8.9 rpg. Celts ended up winning 56 games.

    When KG averaged a double-double and led the Celts in scoring in the 2008 playoffs, the Celts won a championship.

    It's not that hard to figure out the Celts only goes as far as where KG takes them.

    [/QUOTE]

    The facts don't support my contention?  Maybe your facts don't but the facts that most of the rest of us see comes from the game performance.   Pierce and KG are older, Ray is gone, and the guy who's supposed to be our up and comer is not taking up any of the load.   The proof is in his playoff performance vs his current season performance.   Rondo IS part of the problem, as is KG and Green and Terry.  But KG isn't getting younger so we all have to expect him and Paul to perform at a lower level than previous years.   Rondo is now in his prime and its his time to step up.   If its HIS team as KG, Doc, and others have said, he must step up.   Even Magic and other announcers have highlighted that Rondo needs to score more for this team to win.   He also needs to defend better and surely you can see that.

    KG is of massive importance, but he needs better performance from Rondo, as well.

    moreover, you don't really think we are all going to accept your assertion that the sole difference between today's Celtics and the 2008 championship is KG averaging a double-double, do you?  What about Posey, Perk, Ray, Paul being younger and more effective, etc?   You can't pull out one stat and tell me that's why the Celts aren't winning.   That's not even a rational post, man.

    but, if I'm wrong and everyone else thinks:

    1. Rondo is not a part of our problem and

    2. KG is our biggest iissue

    then I'll drop it.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    To say KG more of a problem than Rondo may have some merit... then again, alot of KGs problems stem from Rondo being one of the worse manup PG defenders in the NBA causing KG massive headaches in the lane without a Perk or PJ to cover one another.

    Rondo got away with it for several years cause we had the horses to cover for him.. not anymore and it exposes KG much much more...

    Guess what, the best boost the Celts can get is not necessarily picking up a decent big.. its getting Rondo to stop playing girlieman defense and burdening our less than qualified front line with rotations and complications. and thats just the tip of the iceberg with the HOF wannabe superstar PG

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Karllost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To say KG more of a problem than Rondo may have some merit... then again, alot of KGs problems stem from Rondo being one of the worse manup PG defenders in the NBA causing KG massive headaches in the lane without a Perk or PJ to cover one another.

    Rondo got away with it for several years cause we had the horses to cover for him.. not anymore and it exposes KG much much more...

    Guess what, the best boost the Celts can get is not necessarily picking up a decent big.. its getting Rondo to stop playing girlieman defense and burdening our less than qualified front line with rotations and complications. and thats just the tip of the iceberg with the HOF wannabe superstar PG

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    KG may retire at the end of the year

    PP may opt OUT of his deal

    We will be rebuilding by default.

    If we can get Cousins or Big Al this year, I maintain we will have enough to be good.  I don't know if there is a trade out there that can get us past MIA......but if we rebound, we can get past everyone else!

    [/QUOTE]

    I doubt PP will opt out.  No one else is going to give him that type money.  Now the C's could cut him from the salary cap.  That could be a possibility.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Rondo has already proven he can still improve. This season his shooting % has gone up compared to last season. He's also just 26 years old. So Rondo can still get better. If not then the Celts can always trade him next season or before he become a FA in 2015.

    Right now it's unfair to say that Rondo is part of the problem.

    [/QUOTE]

    Come on, Fierce, time to fess up to some intellectual honesty on this one.  Rondo is not part of the problem?  Really?

    Rondo's clearly not the ONLY problem but it is equally clear that he is PART of the problem.  Watch the Spurs, for example, and see how Parker pushes the ball and is often a one man fast break.  Watch him clearly create early in the shot clock and when he goes to the hole he either scores or kicks the ball out.  That starts the ball rotating and forces the opposition defense to rotate and switch.  After the 2nd or 3rd pass, they have a wide open jumper, often a 3 pointer.  

    That's how we used to play and why we led the league in field goal %...the ball moved!   As Rondo became a star (and was told this is HIS team), he held the ball looking for that one hero/ESPN highligh pass that created an assist for him.   As he became a star, he's improved his shooting but he's not TRYING to score to take the load off others.

    Again, look at Parker, Paul, Westbrook, Rose, Jennings, or (yuck) Isiah Thomas against us!....they all score and get their team easy buckets.  Saves their big men from always having to score and get double teamed.  Gives them offensive rebound opportunities, as well, when the PG breaks down the defense.  We need Rondo to do that!

    Rondo CLEARLY has the skills to do this but chooses not to....even when Doc is pleading from he sidelines for him to push the pace and move the ball.  He CHOOSES to walk it up and dribble for 15 to 18 seconds while he's directing traffic as if no one but him knows how to play the game!

    He clearly plays below his potential and it hurts the team.  All that and I haven't even mentioned his matador defense.  He's is definitely part of our problem, not the whole problem and not the biggest problem, but a big part of our problems.   I am not an advocate for trading Rondo, but I do think Danny and Doc need to get in his rear or sit him more!

    [/QUOTE

    Excellent post and could agree more.  Rondo for all the "how much his shooting has improved" is averaging 1 more pt per game.  His shooting percentage is down from the outside shots and only scoring 1 more point? Yes this is part of the problem.  Pops recently was quoted after a SA win that Parker  relentlessly attacked on the offensive end and scored repeated  and ALSO got his team mates many open looks.  That is what I expect from our "superstar"   Don't even get me going on about the turnstiles we  have playing guards for us.  We make superstars out of people like the most recent Thomas kid.  That was more like a Zeke Thomas to me.  I know Rondo was slowed by injury but this has been going on all year.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seriously, Duncan has never averaged less than 8.9 rebounds per game in his 16 year career.

    KG is averaging a career low 7.0 rpg this season.

    Come on!

    [/QUOTE]

    So - we know Duncan is a better player than KG.  Duncan is the best power forward to play the game and can play center.  Bigger, stronger, and better suited for rebounding with his size and strength at this stage of their careers.   That's like asking why Pierce isn't scoring like Kobe or why Rondo isn't as good as Chris Paul.   They are better players....we know that.  

    So what that KG is only averaging 7 boards?  He's playing center when at his size he shouldn't be asked to do that and unlike Duncan, he doesn't have a Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw to help him (KG has Collins!!!) and he has to show out front on defense where Duncan can stay closer to the basket.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you switched KG and Duncan,  I bet you that KG's numbers would go up.  Maybe not all the way to Duncan's but very close.  The systems have a lot to do with stats.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    KG may retire at the end of the year

    PP may opt OUT of his deal

    We will be rebuilding by default.

    If we can get Cousins or Big Al this year, I maintain we will have enough to be good.  I don't know if there is a trade out there that can get us past MIA......but if we rebound, we can get past everyone else!

    [/QUOTE]

    I doubt PP will opt out.  No one else is going to give him that type money.  Now the C's could cut him from the salary cap.  That could be a possibility.

    [/QUOTE]

    The 4th year of Pierce's conctract is not guaranteed. So the Celts can waive Pierce after this season. The Celts will take a 5m cap hit, but they can re-sign him for less money. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes I know.  That is probably what will happen unless someone decides to give him more cash.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Rondo for all the "how much his shooting has improved" is averaging 1 more pt per game.  His shooting percentage is down from the outside shots and only scoring 1 more point?"


    Last season Rondo was shooting 44.8% from the field and 59.7% from the FT line. This season Rondo is shooting 49.7% from the field and 64.1% from the FT line.

    Expecting Rondo to become a scorer is not realistic because he's not a scorer by nature.

    Rondo is not part of the problem, he just needs to do more. But if we have to rank it, from biggest problem to smallest problem, it would be KG #1, Pierce #2, and Rondo #3. In other words, Rondo is the least of the Celts' problems this season.

    Also, both Pierce and Rondo didn't suffer a drop in production if you base it on their stats this season.

    KG's the only one who has significant drop in production from last season to this season. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I guess I was just remembering when Rondo shot above 50%.  That was actually a few years ago.  KG's drop in production could very well be from trying to cover the onslaught of guys heading to the basket.  Someone that prides himself on defense probably is putting most of his effort on the defensive end.  To say Rondo in not part of the problem is ludicrous. He doesn't stay in front of ANYONE.   You notice I didn't say can't.  He has made allstars out of a lot of guards this year. Its not just Rondo, but Terry, and to a lesser extent Lee.   Bradley coming back and picking up the best guard is going to make a difference for sure, especially with Rondo being able to do what he does best, ROAM.   His best defense is a lot like when Bird played.  McHale took the best scorer and that allowed Bird to roam, help out, rebound, etc.  Very few teams had the second forward they could turn loose on Bird.  That is why he was so effective on the defensive end.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    If you switched KG and Duncan,  I bet you that KG's numbers would go up.  Maybe not all the way to Duncan's but very close.  The systems have a lot to do with stats.

    [/QUOTE]

    My point is KG did it last season in the regular season and playoffs. KG was averaging 15.8 ppg and 8.2 rpg last season. The system last season and this season is the same.

    Like I said, we can always find an excuse if we look hard enough.

    [/QUOTE]

    Its ONE rebound per game.  That's not a big difference.  Also, we have a different team this year and we all, including Doc, expect the points to come from more players.  The whole point of this new roster was to get more points from more players, including Rondo who is NOT delivering more points.  He's supposed to be a superstar and leader.....he has to step up to more points and more drives to create shots for others.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    We just need more young and hungrier players on the team. We have some now that play timid and unsure of themselves because of the presence of H.O.F's like PP and KG. I say move PP, RR. and Bass since they get along well,  and keep K.G. because of his defensive presence.  let A.B. take the keys to the car and set our perimeter D in motion. Green will flourish being out of PPs shadow. Doc will have to play Sully more., Wilcox can be a backup 5 and let Melo get 5-10 minutes a game and see where he is by years end., Give him a rigorous workout regiment in offseson and you have your Paint protector for years. Cancel KGs contract in offseson or advise him to retire. Keep Lee and Terry for veterans that can score.

    Things to get back in trade= A legit 2 guard and legit Big Man and good backup PG

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to antiqueman1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Siorry Fiierce. How many more yrs will it take for Rondo to reach his full potential? He is part of the problem. Hence the reason Ray moved on for less money. There are others out there that can do Rondo's job with less headaches involved.

    [/QUOTE]

    Really?

    How many PGs out there are averaging more than 10 assists per game and 5 rebounds per game?

    [/QUOTE]

    assistis are such a crap shoot stat. many of those 'assists' are just passes to players who proceed to take a jump shots. It can be a very misleading stat.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Rondo has already proven he can still improve. This season his shooting % has gone up compared to last season. He's also just 26 years old. So Rondo can still get better. If not then the Celts can always trade him next season or before he become a FA in 2015.

    Right now it's unfair to say that Rondo is part of the problem.

    [/QUOTE]

    Come on, Fierce, time to fess up to some intellectual honesty on this one.  Rondo is not part of the problem?  Really?

    Rondo's clearly not the ONLY problem but it is equally clear that he is PART of the problem.  Watch the Spurs, for example, and see how Parker pushes the ball and is often a one man fast break.  Watch him clearly create early in the shot clock and when he goes to the hole he either scores or kicks the ball out.  That starts the ball rotating and forces the opposition defense to rotate and switch.  After the 2nd or 3rd pass, they have a wide open jumper, often a 3 pointer.  

    That's how we used to play and why we led the league in field goal %...the ball moved!   As Rondo became a star (and was told this is HIS team), he held the ball looking for that one hero/ESPN highligh pass that created an assist for him.   As he became a star, he's improved his shooting but he's not TRYING to score to take the load off others.

    Again, look at Parker, Paul, Westbrook, Rose, Jennings, or (yuck) Isiah Thomas against us!....they all score and get their team easy buckets.  Saves their big men from always having to score and get double teamed.  Gives them offensive rebound opportunities, as well, when the PG breaks down the defense.  We need Rondo to do that!

    Rondo CLEARLY has the skills to do this but chooses not to....even when Doc is pleading from he sidelines for him to push the pace and move the ball.  He CHOOSES to walk it up and dribble for 15 to 18 seconds while he's directing traffic as if no one but him knows how to play the game!

    He clearly plays below his potential and it hurts the team.  All that and I haven't even mentioned his matador defense.  He's is definitely part of our problem, not the whole problem and not the biggest problem, but a big part of our problems.   I am not an advocate for trading Rondo, but I do think Danny and Doc need to get in his rear or sit him more!

    [/QUOTE]

    Very true. Well put. Rondo is definitely part of the Cs problem. I say if they can trade him, by all means do it. This team would improve. He is so caugt up in what Fierce call assists, that he forgets about the game at hand.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: TANK OR TRADE

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    So - we know Duncan is a better player than KG.  Duncan is the best power forward to play the game and can play center.  Bigger, stronger, and better suited for rebounding with his size and strength at this stage of their careers.   That's like asking why Pierce isn't scoring like Kobe or why Rondo isn't as good as Chris Paul.   They are better players....we know that.  

    So what that KG is only averaging 7 boards?  He's playing center when at his size he shouldn't be asked to do that and unlike Duncan, he doesn't have a Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw to help him (KG has Collins!!!) and he has to show out front on defense where Duncan can stay closer to the basket.

    [/QUOTE]

    KG also "showed" in 2008 and 2009 and he averaged 9.2 rpg in 2008 and 8.5 rpg in 2009.

    There's always an excuse if you look hard enough.

    The point is KG is a bigger problem than Rondo right now.

    [/QUOTE]

    U have fallen off your rocker Fierce. KG is not a bigger problem than Rondo. KG has many ys under his belt. And for his age and miles on his body, he is still pretty darn good. What is Rondo's excuse. He has speed, youth, talent, yet refuses to use it every game. He is a diva who has all the talent yet lacks the ability to execute night in and night out. KG at least gives the best he can every night. That is not part of the problem. Part of the solution is figuring out the enigma that is Rondo.  

     

Share