Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    Lets assume that Danny wants to primarily showcase players he wants traded ASAP and has no incentive to to rush players back from injury.  

    In this case, I see Stevens giving lots of minutes to everybody from top to bottom of the bench and experimenting with players and positions for future development.

    PG - Bradley 

    SG - Crawford (with minutes to Lee and Bradley).

    SF - Green (with BIG minutes to Wallace)

    PF - Bass

    C  - Hump

    PG:  Assuming Danny holds Rondo out at the start of the season to make sure the knee is strong, I don't see any benefit of starting Pressey.  He is only a place holder.  I do see value in giving Bradley a chance to try the point without the pressure of last year and within a new system. Who knows?  Nothing to lose.

    SG:  With Bradley at PG, Crawford and Lee get primary minutes at SG.  Crawford can put up lots of points and could be an attractive trade for a team that needs offense from the outside.  As it is now, Craswford is barely worth a second round pick.   We need to showcase him.  When Crawford is gone, Brooks, Lee and Bradley settle back in.

    SF:  Since we really only have Green and Wallace, they both get plenty of time.  Green to hone his consistency and Wallace to showcase for a trade.

    PF:  Bass was the starter last year. He will not be with the team next year. He needs showcasing.  Sully eased back into the lineup slowly to make sure his back is fully healed, and Oly eased into the lineup slowly for development.

    C:   Hump and Fav. Don't see much reason to let Oly get eaten by the lions.  Wait till he gets his feet wet before we try him at center, other than situational.  

    End of Season line up (after trades):

    PG - New Player from trade (or Rondo) / Presey

    SG - Bradley / Lee / Brooks

    SF - Green / new player from trade  

    PF - Sully / Oly

    C  - New player from trade / Oly

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    no. don't play AB out of position. Play pressey and see what he's got. Maybe he shows promise and can either stay as a legit point guard backup or be used as trade bait. Avery is a SG. You cant continue to play him out of position and expect it to somehow work out. Maybe if Rondo is out that first mont and a Pressey Bradley backcourt is too small, Lee and Brooks get some time starting and playing heavy minutes.

     

    I think the best way to handle this roster is not to try and squeeze every player into a game, but rather change lineups from game to game and give these guys a chance to grind out heavy minutes in a game. I don't want the mindset to be defeatist because there's depth behind you. Doc use to strategize like crazy and dictate each players role and enforce that. I hope Stevens knows to use this season to experiment to see what this team and its players can become, and make adjustments on new data, new results.

     

    Its the players #1 responsibility to win games, but its Stevens #1 responsibility to develop winners.

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheBigTicket05. Show TheBigTicket05's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    first five(before trade deadline)

    Lee

    Brooks

    Wallace(limit his mins)

    Bass

    Humphries

    2nd unit:

    Pressey-bradley-Green-Olynyk-Sully

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from solich8. Show solich8's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    People might think this crazy but if there is any truth in selling high than Danny needs to trade Olynyk to the Sixers, Sun, Bobcats, or Magic for their unprotected 1st round pick for next years draft.  Right now Olynyk's value is at an all time high as there is potential written all over his forehead. This will assure that the Celtics end up with their own high pick and another.  Best case senerio is one of the picks secure Wiggins and the other gets a player better or equal to Olynyk.  If Anige really wants to roll the dice and rebuild than he also trades Rondo to the suns for their pick next year unprotected and possibly Green to the Bobcats.  Four first round lottery picks next year could give the celtics a solid foundation to build toward the future.  If Sully comes back and looks like a monster on the boards and downlow than why not trade him too. Five first round lottery picks would give the Celtics their own version of the Fab Five! Five chances to get Wiggins along with Marcus Smart and others would make for an exciting lottery day. Think about the Tim Duncan/Greg Oden lotteries and times that excitement and anticipation tenfold! 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    Why stop there?  We should get a first rounder for Stevens! and maybe a late second round for Danny!!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    The Celtics will not tank unless we are really losing by the allstar break.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheBigTicket05. Show TheBigTicket05's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    In response to Eldunker's comment:

    Why stop there?  We should get a first rounder for Stevens! and maybe a late second round for Danny!!



    hahahahahahaha

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    In response to Eldunker's comment:

    Why stop there?  We should get a first rounder for Stevens! and maybe a late second round for Danny!!



    Outstanding! Trade Ainge again!  

    But really, 

    "PG - New Player from trade (or Rondo) / Presey

    SG - Bradley / Lee / Brooks

    SF - Green / new player from trade  

    PF - Sully / Oly

    C  - New player from trade / Oly"

     

    Doesn't look much different than they look right now except for the excision of Crawford and the Nets' crumbs, so what's the big gain?  The"new player(s)" are as much unknown factors as future draft picks are.

    Olynyk should be thrown to "the lions", especially because there aren't that many punishing, dominating centers in the Conference, and I doubt he'd be "eaten".  Spotting him against the right PFs (primarily) and some Cs is the only way to get a true picture of his abilities and genuine potential against solid NBA comp.  Treating him with Doc's attitude toward rookies is counterproductive to the development of a player with his apparent skill level.  

    But, it is a very slow Celtics' news period, so why not engage in a little "what if..".   My version of fantasy is that Brooks has a breakout year (16-18+ ppg) and a core of Rondo, Green, Sullinger, Brooks, Olynyk, and Bradley (off the bench, becoming the best 6th in the league as a goal, vis-à-vis Havlicek's role during part of his career) with some decent bench help from Bass, Lee, and a legit center (Vitor?).  That offense looks much better than the D end, but not finding enough offense has been the Celtics' dilemma for the last couple of years.  

     

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    What if?

    Eldunko and the other Rondo Haters Club members dread the "what if Rondo gets an extension and will be a Celtic until 2020".

    HAHAHA



    The reality is that Ainge won't allow any player to be a "Celtic for life", so at some time Rondo will not wear a Boston Celtics uniform.  Ainge's ego/insecurity cannot tolerate a player being untouchable - because Ainge himself was traded (hallelujah!) .  His neurosis ensures that a Rondo departure at one point is a given.  Gar-roan-teed.  Personally, I'd prefer him to stay to play with a younger group and just run every other team into the ground like the old Celtics fastbreaking teams (controlled), not Phoenix (just run and quickly gun).  That's predicated, of course, on rebounding.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    In response to painter's comment:

    In response to Eldunker's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Why stop there?  We should get a first rounder for Stevens! and maybe a late second round for Danny!!

     



    Outstanding! Trade Ainge again!  

     

    But really, 

    "PG - New Player from trade (or Rondo) / Presey

    SG - Bradley / Lee / Brooks

    SF - Green / new player from trade  

    PF - Sully / Oly

    C  - New player from trade / Oly"

     

    Doesn't look much different than they look right now except for the excision of Crawford and the Nets' crumbs, so what's the big gain?  The"new player(s)" are as much unknown factors as future draft picks are.

    Olynyk should be thrown to "the lions", especially because there aren't that many punishing, dominating centers in the Conference, and I doubt he'd be "eaten".  Spotting him against the right PFs (primarily) and some Cs is the only way to get a true picture of his abilities and genuine potential against solid NBA comp.  Treating him with Doc's attitude toward rookies is counterproductive to the development of a player with his apparent skill level.  

    But, it is a very slow Celtics' news period, so why not engage in a little "what if..".   My version of fantasy is that Brooks has a breakout year (16-18+ ppg) and a core of Rondo, Green, Sullinger, Brooks, Olynyk, and Bradley (off the bench, becoming the best 6th in the league as a goal, vis-à-vis Havlicek's role during part of his career) with some decent bench help from Bass, Lee, and a legit center (Vitor?).  That offense looks much better than the D end, but not finding enough offense has been the Celtics' dilemma for the last couple of years.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Brooks is THE biggest question mark on the roster.  He could either turn out to be a productive star or turn into a one-year-and-done ghost on the bench.  We know he can handle the ball well and light it up from the outside.  I watched him dump 50 something points on Notre Dame. He has the size, athleticism, and overall skills.  

    If he can improve his defense, gain confidence and play with consistency, he could develop into a top nocth SG.  

    Hope Stevens gives him a chance.  Be interesting to see his contribution and development   

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    Id rather start crawford (until rondo) at point than AB.  At least he's a threat to penetrate or shoot.

    AB is only effective offensively if he can move around without the ball.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    In response to Eldunker's comment:

    In response to painter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Eldunker's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Why stop there?  We should get a first rounder for Stevens! and maybe a late second round for Danny!!

     

     



    Outstanding! Trade Ainge again!  

     

     

    But really, 

    "PG - New Player from trade (or Rondo) / Presey

    SG - Bradley / Lee / Brooks

    SF - Green / new player from trade  

    PF - Sully / Oly

    C  - New player from trade / Oly"

     

    Doesn't look much different than they look right now except for the excision of Crawford and the Nets' crumbs, so what's the big gain?  The"new player(s)" are as much unknown factors as future draft picks are.

    Olynyk should be thrown to "the lions", especially because there aren't that many punishing, dominating centers in the Conference, and I doubt he'd be "eaten".  Spotting him against the right PFs (primarily) and some Cs is the only way to get a true picture of his abilities and genuine potential against solid NBA comp.  Treating him with Doc's attitude toward rookies is counterproductive to the development of a player with his apparent skill level.  

    But, it is a very slow Celtics' news period, so why not engage in a little "what if..".   My version of fantasy is that Brooks has a breakout year (16-18+ ppg) and a core of Rondo, Green, Sullinger, Brooks, Olynyk, and Bradley (off the bench, becoming the best 6th in the league as a goal, vis-à-vis Havlicek's role during part of his career) with some decent bench help from Bass, Lee, and a legit center (Vitor?).  That offense looks much better than the D end, but not finding enough offense has been the Celtics' dilemma for the last couple of years.  

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Brooks is THE biggest question mark on the roster.  He could either turn out to be a productive star or turn into a one-year-and-done ghost on the bench.  We know he can handle the ball well and light it up from the outside.  I watched him dump 50 something points on Notre Dame. He has the size, athleticism, and overall skills.  

     

    If he can improve his defense, gain confidence and play with consistency, he could develop into a top nocth SG.  

    Hope Stevens gives him a chance.  Be interesting to see his contribution and development   

    [/QUOTE]

    Didn't Brooks play lights out when he first got to the Nets? If so, what happened?

    It seems that many here were lamenting that DA didn't draft him... only to realize that DA did draft him and then trade him to the Nets for someone else.

    Pud

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    Id rather start crawford (until rondo) at point than AB.  At least he's a threat to penetrate or shoot.

    AB is only effective offensively if he can move around without the ball.

     

    True.  Your point is perfectly logical.  But my point was that IF Crawford is not part of our long term plans as has been surmised, then showcase him at his best position.

    And if Bradley has long term value just because of his defensive skills, then why not try to develop his ball handling until Rondo returns, because there is nothing to lose? Two birds with one stone.

    My proposition is all about the rebuilding process - positioning certain players for trade and developing skills for the keepers.  Bradley would also still get plenty of minutes at SG. Regardless, I do believe that if Bradley doesn't improve his offensive game, he will not be our starting SG for very long.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    [/QUOTE]


    I think Brooks is THE biggest question mark on the roster.  He could either turn out to be a productive star or turn into a one-year-and-done ghost on the bench.  We know he can handle the ball well and light it up from the outside.  I watched him dump 50 something points on Notre Dame. He has the size, athleticism, and overall skills.  

     

     

    If he can improve his defense, gain confidence and play with consistency, he could develop into a top nocth SG.  

    Hope Stevens gives him a chance.  Be interesting to see his contribution and development   

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Didn't Brooks play lights out when he first got to the Nets? If so, what happened?

    It seems that many here were lamenting that DA didn't draft him... only to realize that DA did draft him and then trade him to the Nets for someone else.

    Pud

    [/QUOTE]

    Pud.  Brooks indeed had a great rookie year.   But I think his deficiencies on defense were exasperated by an eroding relationship with coach Avery Johnson (and maybe Carlisimo too?).  In his second year, he wasn't getting the minutes and perhaps as a result there was a conditioning and confidence problem. .  I don't think he has a bad attitude or character issue.  I just don't think he was well coached.  Same thing probabaly would have happened to him under Doc (getting buried on the bench) instead of fixing the deficiency and finding a way to utilize his skills.

    If he learns how to play D, and properly nurtured by Stevens, he could be scarey good. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    In response to Eldunker's comment:


    I think Brooks is THE biggest question mark on the roster.  He could either turn out to be a productive star or turn into a one-year-and-done ghost on the bench.  We know he can handle the ball well and light it up from the outside.  I watched him dump 50 something points on Notre Dame. He has the size, athleticism, and overall skills.  

     

     

    If he can improve his defense, gain confidence and play with consistency, he could develop into a top nocth SG.  

    Hope Stevens gives him a chance.  Be interesting to see his contribution and development   

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Didn't Brooks play lights out when he first got to the Nets? If so, what happened?

    It seems that many here were lamenting that DA didn't draft him... only to realize that DA did draft him and then trade him to the Nets for someone else.

    Pud

    [/QUOTE]

    Pud.  Brooks indeed had a great rookie year.   But I think his deficiencies on defense were exasperated by an eroding relationship with coach Avery Johnson (and maybe Carlisimo too?).  In his second year, he wasn't getting the minutes and perhaps as a result there was a conditioning and confidence problem. .  I don't think he has a bad attitude or character issue.  I just don't think he was well coached.  Same thing probabaly would have happened to him under Doc (getting buried on the bench) instead of fixing the deficiency and finding a way to utilize his skills.

    If he learns how to play D, and properly nurtured by Stevens, he could be scarey good. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Sounds like a heavy lift.

    Is there any precedent for someone with Brooks' skillset learning to play the defense that affords him the PT to maximize his considerable offensive talent?

    Pud

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up


    Well, maybe Ray Allen?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Tanking and Trade Positioning Line Up

    Sounds like a heavy lift.

    Is there any precedent for someone with Brooks' skillset learning to play the defense that affords him the PT to maximize his considerable offensive talent?

     

    Great question Pud.  Good defense takes physical attributes, knowledge/techniques and effort.  We know that Brooks has the physical tools.  His big wingspan is one of the most important weapons.  It is entirely possible that he was never taught how to play D.  I recall Amare saying he never learned how to play D, even after years in the NBA.  Effort is something a coach develops in practice.  So a good caoch can IMO can develop defensive skills if the player already has the physical skills.

    As for examples... Kendrink Perkins comes to mind.  He was slow and always out of position in his first few years.  After that he was just slow, but knew how to position himself.   Steve Nash never had the physical tools, but learned some NBA tricks and techniques to play semi-acceptable defense.  

    edit:  and as cole ely said, Ray didn't have any defenseive skills coming out of college. and over time developed tricks of the D trade, like Nash.

     

     
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