Thank You, Doc

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

     

    In response to prakash's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

     

    In response to prakash's comment:


    You guys are so precious!  Clearly, you think that coaching is a no-brainer.  Can you give me two examples of coaches that developed players while winning consistently at the same time?  Your formula is that anybody can win with 3 all-star players on the roster.  Miami did not win it all in the first year.  Sometimes complexity and subtelity eludes simple minds.

     

    Red, Pat Riley, Tom Heinson in years past..

    Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich just to name a few from the last several years


     

     



    Nah!  Red and Tommy Hiensohn don't count.  That was a different era.  Greg Popovich?  Yes.  Jerry Sloan?  That is not consistently winning at a high level.  And who did he develop once he started winning?  Deron Williams?  Anybody could have developed Deron Williams.  Pat Riley?  Now that is laughable.  Who did he develop?  By your standards Doc has a stellar record: Rondo, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green and Big Baby, all are his successes.

     

     

     


    The Jazz teams of the 80's, 90's and early 2000's had many solid role players, and post malone no real star outside of williams and still made the playoffs regularly.

     

     

    As much as I hate to say this, the riley lakers developed many solid role players and starters over the 80's and 90's which kept them competitive even after Kareem and Magic retired. He then did the same for the Knicks in the early 90's and Miami after that. I don't like the don of gel any more than you do, but I have to give respect where it's due.

    Doc was forced to play Rondo during the rebuilding years and later he was a veteran. Avery only got to play one Ray got hurt and there was no one left. Big Baby got to play when Powe and the starter were hurting/limited. Jeff Green was already developed when he was traded for. Agan making excuses for a guy who doesn't develop people unless he's forced to.

    Let's use one that'll hit home with those who like to argue.. The man who should have been the Celtics coach:

    Tom Thibodeau. In his 2 years of coaching, he gave in his first year playing time in all 82 games to  rookie omar asik, 80 games to 2nd yr player taj gibson, and 13 to james johnson. Year 2 - Rookie jimmy butler played 42 games, asik played 66. This year rookie marcus teague played 48 games, butler played all 82 games, and second year player malcolm thomas played 7. This is despite being a playoff bound team. He know you need to develop your bench, and your future to make your team stronger overall. One injury could derail your team's chances and you need to have a player ready to step in to take over if that should happen. 

     

     




    It still does not make sense to me.  You say that Thibodeau developed players.  Did he do that by necessity?  Did he play them ahead of superior players on the roster?  While doing so, has he won with greater consistency than Doc?  Have his playoff performances been better?  I would like to calibrate your notion of development?  Exactly who are these solid players that were developed by Riley and Sloan.  You are quick to dismiss Rondo, Baby and Bradley.  Did they happen despite Doc?  You say Jeff Green was already developed.  When in his career did he put up the kind of performances that he put up in Boston last year?  While you are at it, could you point out one player that Doc did not develop that became better after he left Boston?

     

    Here is what I hear you say.  Sloan and Riley developed players according to a plan.  Doc's player developed despite his best efforts not to do so.  Pertty ludicrous statements I would say.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to prakash's comment:

     

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

     In response to prakash's comment:

    You guys are so precious!  Clearly, you think that coaching is a no-brainer.  Can you give me two examples of coaches that developed players while winning consistently at the same time?  Your formula is that anybody can win with 3 all-star players on the roster.  Miami did not win it all in the first year.  Sometimes complexity and subtelity eludes simple minds.

    Red, Pat Riley, Tom Heinson in years past..

    Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich just to name a few from the last several years

    Nah!  Red and Tommy Hiensohn don't count.  That was a different era.  Greg Popovich?  Yes.  Jerry Sloan?  That is not consistently winning at a high level.  And who did he develop once he started winning?  Deron Williams?  Anybody could have developed Deron Williams.  Pat Riley?  Now that is laughable.  Who did he develop?  By your standards Doc has a stellar record: Rondo, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green and Big Baby, all are his successes.

     



    WOW.. you couldnt be any more wrong if you were blind, deaf & dumb...which by your post you just might be

     

    Doc did not develop or hardly allowed to play 3 of the 4 players you cited... thats so ridiculuous.

    Rondo has been developed by Doc into a sissyboy, spoiled brat that instigated his coach to physically attack him after being cursed out. Developed Rondo into  ball hog that stifled the teams offense and chemistry all in the name of assist records... Doc a complete failure

    AB didnt play much until injury set in... then all of a sudden AB got PT and Doc apparently developed him....too funny

    Jeff Green was an established player when he was traded for and DOc so misused him he became a waste until.... u got it, injury forced Doc to use him and voila...a star was born

    BBD is the biggest joke of all... Doc gave him garbage minutes most of the time...rarely in the game for very long when it counted...then KG went down and viola again.... another star was born as BBD carried a big load, esp in the playoffs... then ran him out of Boston

    Over riding theme here is DOC didnt recognize talent and as usual, kept good, talented players rotting on the bench cause he just dont know any better... He has a script, ride the vets til they drop, take out a bench player no matter how good a game hes having & ride the vets more

    Thank goodness this fugazy of a coach is gone

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc


    I liked Doc as a player and a coach.  I could take or leave Danny as a player and as a GM I think he is terrible.

    I have been a Clippers fan since the 80's when I used to travel to LA.  So good luck to Doc and I hope Danny is the next to go.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrmccook. Show jrmccook's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to prakash's comment:

     

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

     

    In response to prakash's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

     

    In response to prakash's comment:


    You guys are so precious!  Clearly, you think that coaching is a no-brainer.  Can you give me two examples of coaches that developed players while winning consistently at the same time?  Your formula is that anybody can win with 3 all-star players on the roster.  Miami did not win it all in the first year.  Sometimes complexity and subtelity eludes simple minds.

     

    Red, Pat Riley, Tom Heinson in years past..

    Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich just to name a few from the last several years


     

     



    Nah!  Red and Tommy Hiensohn don't count.  That was a different era.  Greg Popovich?  Yes.  Jerry Sloan?  That is not consistently winning at a high level.  And who did he develop once he started winning?  Deron Williams?  Anybody could have developed Deron Williams.  Pat Riley?  Now that is laughable.  Who did he develop?  By your standards Doc has a stellar record: Rondo, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green and Big Baby, all are his successes.

     

     

     


    The Jazz teams of the 80's, 90's and early 2000's had many solid role players, and post malone no real star outside of williams and still made the playoffs regularly.

     

     

    As much as I hate to say this, the riley lakers developed many solid role players and starters over the 80's and 90's which kept them competitive even after Kareem and Magic retired. He then did the same for the Knicks in the early 90's and Miami after that. I don't like the don of gel any more than you do, but I have to give respect where it's due.

    Doc was forced to play Rondo during the rebuilding years and later he was a veteran. Avery only got to play one Ray got hurt and there was no one left. Big Baby got to play when Powe and the starter were hurting/limited. Jeff Green was already developed when he was traded for. Agan making excuses for a guy who doesn't develop people unless he's forced to.

    Let's use one that'll hit home with those who like to argue.. The man who should have been the Celtics coach:

    Tom Thibodeau. In his 2 years of coaching, he gave in his first year playing time in all 82 games to  rookie omar asik, 80 games to 2nd yr player taj gibson, and 13 to james johnson. Year 2 - Rookie jimmy butler played 42 games, asik played 66. This year rookie marcus teague played 48 games, butler played all 82 games, and second year player malcolm thomas played 7. This is despite being a playoff bound team. He know you need to develop your bench, and your future to make your team stronger overall. One injury could derail your team's chances and you need to have a player ready to step in to take over if that should happen. 

     

     




    It still does not make sense to me.  You say that Thibodeau developed players.  Did he do that by necessity?  Did he play them ahead of superior players on the roster?  While doing so, has he won with greater consistency than Doc?  Have his playoff performances been better?  I would like to calibrate your notion of development?  Exactly who are these solid players that were developed by Riley and Sloan.  You are quick to dismiss Rondo, Baby and Bradley.  Did they happen despite Doc?  You say Jeff Green was already developed.  When in his career did he put up the kind of performances that he put up in Boston last year?  While you are at it, could you point out one player that Doc did not develop that became better after he left Boston?

     

    Here is what I hear you say.  Sloan and Riley developed players according to a plan.  Doc's player developed despite his best efforts not to do so.  Pertty ludicrous statements I would say.

     




    Let me explain this in very small words so you understand, because obviously you aren't getting the gist of the message of what i'm saying comparing the coaches who actually coach to doc the cheerleader. Doc can take x's and o's and keep veteran's in line and make them happy. He will play vets into the ground until an injury forces him to play a young guy, and if that young guy does ok, he'll continue to play him (see powe, bbd, ect for examples). These other coaches start playing players their very first year either every game or atleast every other game in 8-15 minute stretches if not longer to get them acclimated to the game, develop them, and rest their veterans. Then the coaches will know that they're capable of and they either settle into a role or see their minutes increase as they continue to develop. This has/had worked for these coaches very successfully for years. If this doesn't make sense to you, I can't simplify it much more.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to jackbu's comment:


    I liked Doc as a player and a coach.  I could take or leave Danny as a player and as a GM I think he is terrible.

    I have been a Clippers fan since the 80's when I used to travel to LA.  So good luck to Doc and I hope Danny is the next to go.



    I liked Doc as a player too and Danny was good fit for Celtics as a player and also had his moments in the clutch.

    Cant say the same in their post playing positions.. Danny gets huge credit for the KG/Ray acquisitions which brought us a title... big credit for dumping Perk and getting JG.. the rest not too impressed by..

    Doc is just a weak coach that gets by with charm, media hype and certain players liking his style of letting them do whatever they please.. In reality, he was garbage as a coach before the Big 3 and he should be kissing Dannys a** for saving his coaching career in 2007. 

    I pity the Clippers if they think Doc is the missing link.. and knowing the Clips history of being total losers and bumblers, hiring Doc was business as usual for them

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to jrmccook's comment:



    Let me explain this in very small words so you understand, because obviously you aren't getting the gist of the message of what i'm saying comparing the coaches who actually coach to doc the cheerleader. Doc can take x's and o's and keep veteran's in line and make them happy. He will play vets into the ground until an injury forces him to play a young guy, and if that young guy does ok, he'll continue to play him (see powe, bbd, ect for examples). These other coaches start playing players their very first year either every game or atleast every other game in 8-15 minute stretches if not longer to get them acclimated to the game, develop them, and rest their veterans. Then the coaches will know that they're capable of and they either settle into a role or see their minutes increase as they continue to develop. This has/had worked for these coaches very successfully for years. If this doesn't make sense to you, I can't simplify it much more.

     



    OK, now let me explain it simply because you are not getting it.  I don't mind that Doc has left.  However, I don't want to belittle his accomplishments as Celtics coach.  You think that Doc did not accomplish anything.  Any coach in his position would have won.  And Doc did not develop any players.

    I have asked some simple questions: Did Rondo, AB and Baby develop despite Doc?  Is there one player that Doc failed to develop but somebody else did?  Did Jeff Green ever put together performances in one season like he did here?  Did Miami win the championship in the first year of big three?

    I say coaching matters a lot.  Doc did a great job here.  It is time for him to move on and the Celts to go a different way.  I will not miss Doc but I respect him.  It is quite simple really.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to Karllost's comment:


    WOW.. you couldnt be any more wrong if you were blind, deaf & dumb...which by your post you just might be

     

    Doc did not develop or hardly allowed to play 3 of the 4 players you cited... thats so ridiculuous.

    Rondo has been developed by Doc into a sissyboy, spoiled brat that instigated his coach to physically attack him after being cursed out. Developed Rondo into  ball hog that stifled the teams offense and chemistry all in the name of assist records... Doc a complete failure

    AB didnt play much until injury set in... then all of a sudden AB got PT and Doc apparently developed him....too funny

    Jeff Green was an established player when he was traded for and DOc so misused him he became a waste until.... u got it, injury forced Doc to use him and voila...a star was born

    BBD is the biggest joke of all... Doc gave him garbage minutes most of the time...rarely in the game for very long when it counted...then KG went down and viola again.... another star was born as BBD carried a big load, esp in the playoffs... then ran him out of Boston

    Over riding theme here is DOC didnt recognize talent and as usual, kept good, talented players rotting on the bench cause he just dont know any better... He has a script, ride the vets til they drop, take out a bench player no matter how good a game hes having & ride the vets more

    Thank goodness this fugazy of a coach is gone



    I know where you stand on things.  Have fun.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    WOW.. you couldnt be any more wrong if you were blind, deaf & dumb...which by your post you just might be

    Doc did not develop or hardly allowed to play 3 of the 4 players you cited... thats so ridiculuous.

    Rondo has been developed by Doc into a sissyboy, spoiled brat that instigated his coach to physically attack him after being cursed out. Developed Rondo into  ball hog that stifled the teams offense and chemistry all in the name of assist records... Doc a complete failure

    AB didnt play much until injury set in... then all of a sudden AB got PT and Doc apparently developed him....too funny

    Jeff Green was an established player when he was traded for and DOc so misused him he became a waste until.... u got it, injury forced Doc to use him and voila...a star was born

    BBD is the biggest joke of all... Doc gave him garbage minutes most of the time...rarely in the game for very long when it counted...then KG went down and viola again.... another star was born as BBD carried a big load, esp in the playoffs... then ran him out of Boston

    Over riding theme here is DOC didnt recognize talent and as usual, kept good, talented players rotting on the bench cause he just dont know any better... He has a script, ride the vets til they drop, take out a bench player no matter how good a game hes having & ride the vets more

    Thank goodness this fugazy of a coach is gone



    I'm sorry, I have to step in here. You can make a case for "spoiled brat," I suppose. His technicals and ejections have ticked me off. But in what universe is Rajon Rondo, who over the last three seasons is averaging 10.7 field goal attempts and 11.3 assists per game, a "ball hog?"



     

     

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    WOW.. you couldnt be any more wrong if you were blind, deaf & dumb...which by your post you just might be

    Doc did not develop or hardly allowed to play 3 of the 4 players you cited... thats so ridiculuous.

    Rondo has been developed by Doc into a sissyboy, spoiled brat that instigated his coach to physically attack him after being cursed out. Developed Rondo into  ball hog that stifled the teams offense and chemistry all in the name of assist records... Doc a complete failure

    AB didnt play much until injury set in... then all of a sudden AB got PT and Doc apparently developed him....too funny

    Jeff Green was an established player when he was traded for and DOc so misused him he became a waste until.... u got it, injury forced Doc to use him and voila...a star was born

    BBD is the biggest joke of all... Doc gave him garbage minutes most of the time...rarely in the game for very long when it counted...then KG went down and viola again.... another star was born as BBD carried a big load, esp in the playoffs... then ran him out of Boston

    Over riding theme here is DOC didnt recognize talent and as usual, kept good, talented players rotting on the bench cause he just dont know any better... He has a script, ride the vets til they drop, take out a bench player no matter how good a game hes having & ride the vets more

    Thank goodness this fugazy of a coach is gone



    I'm sorry, I have to step in here. You can make a case for "spoiled brat," I suppose. His technicals and ejections have ticked me off. But in what universe is Rajon Rondo, who over the last three seasons is averaging 10.7 field goal attempts and 11.3 assists per game, a "ball hog?"



    Maybe you just dont understand the game and even watch the games for that matter... If I really need to educate you about Rondo dominating the ball, running the shot clock down, still holding until he can find his precious assist ... then youre a lost cause.. really u r

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to Karllost's comment:



    Maybe you just dont understand the game and even watch the games for that matter... If I really need to educate you about Rondo dominating the ball, running the shot clock down, still holding until he can find his precious assist ... then youre a lost cause.. really u r

    Or maybe you're so blinded by your disdain for Doc and Rondo that you've lost whatever vision you once had. That would seem to be a more realistic theory.

    Clearly I hit a nerve, which wasn't my intent. I simply asked how someone who averages more assists than field goal attempts could be considered a "ball hog?" You chose to make it personal, which is what folks often do in realizing they've lost the debate.

    TTFN.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

     



    Maybe you just dont understand the game and even watch the games for that matter... If I really need to educate you about Rondo dominating the ball, running the shot clock down, still holding until he can find his precious assist ... then youre a lost cause.. really u r

     

     

     

    Or maybe you're so blinded by your disdain for Doc and Rondo that you've lost whatever vision you once had. That would seem to be a more realistic theory.

    Clearly I hit a nerve, which wasn't my intent. I simply asked how someone who averages more assists than field goal attempts could be considered a "ball hog?" You chose to make it personal, which is what folks often do in realizing they've lost the debate.

    TTFN.

     



    You got it wrong sonny... Try reading my response over again slowly where I explained exactly why Rondo is a ball hog.

     

    Also, I wasnt aware of your gold starndard that anyone averaging more assists than FG attempts disqualifies him from being a ball hog. On the contrary, maybe his lower ratio of FGs:assists is a direct result of him not letting go of the ball or shooting it, waiting for his next assist to develop

    BTW, I saw your question from the other thread wondering who Wyc is... its Wyc Grousbeck the ceo, governor and co-owner of the Celtics.

    Glad I could help you out with that too

     

     

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    It's a given that you will lose a lot of your vision if you've been watching the Celts since the 1960s.

    HAHAHA



    but only you are known as a FUNGUS.. youre also known as a pathological liar and welcher too...

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    You got it wrong sonny... Try reading my response over again slowly where I explained exactly why Rondo is a ball hog.

    Also, I wasnt aware of your gold starndard that anyone averaging more assists than FG attempts disqualifies him from being a ball hog. On the contrary, maybe his lower ratio of FGs:assists is a direct result of him not letting go of the ball or shooting it, waiting for his next assist to develop

    BTW, I saw your question from the other thread wondering who Wyc is... its Wyc Grousbeck the ceo, governor and co-owner of the Celtics.

    Glad I could help you out with that too


    Karl, if being a total snot when asked a simple question helps you feel better about yourself, then by all means have at it. I prefer the mature route, so I'll just say your argument contains no logic. I'm old-fashioned that way.

    You did, however, help with Wyc. Thanks for that.

    Oh, and thanks for calling me "Sonny." Brings back wonderful memories.

     

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share